The whole of Hardhome felt like a lazy, tropey B-grade zombie film with paper-thin cookie cutter characters and sequences. Only relative to the rest of the season was it any good; in the context of the series as a whole, it was still the worst action-oriented episode (Blackwater was best).
I don't recall these cookie cutter characters you're talking about, but I think the Wildling lady and the Thenn guy did an excellent job in their respective roles.
I think Hardhome would have been harder to pull off than Blackwater because there was a lot more trickery going on. You had the whitewalkers, the wights, the men on the ground, Wun Wun, the snow, the water, etc. It had more individual fights as well as more shots of people being attacked.
Blackwater's logistics from an action standpoint looked like something they had done before. Guys running at each other or standing around in big groups, people talking in rooms, swords clashing, then they abruptly ended it with Tywin riding in.
Just because you don't like the idea of wights doesn't make Hardhome less impressive.
Not to mention that in retrospect, the fighting scenes in Blackwater after the wildfire explosion look very cheaply made.
A few shots of twenty guys running around every so often on a set.
Edit: I've always thought (ever since seeing this shot) that Blackwater would hold up a lot better if it had a shot like this showing the scope of the battle.
The whole of Hardhome felt like a lazy, tropey B-grade zombie film with paper-thin cookie cutter characters and sequences. Only relative to the rest of the season was it any good; in the context of the series as a whole, it was still the worst action-oriented episode (Blackwater was best).
I'd say the battle at the wall episode was the worst. Nothing about it I really liked. Hardhome was my favorite, it was really well done and I liked the new characters they threw in there, brief as their parts were. And I wasn't expecting Wun Wun which was a nice surprise.
Not to mention that in retrospect, the fighting scenes in Blackwater after the wildfire explosion look very cheaply made.
A few shots of twenty guys running around every so often on a set.
Edit: I've always thought (ever since seeing this shot) that Blackwater would hold up a lot better if it had a shot like this showing the scope of the battle.
The whole of Hardhome felt like a lazy, tropey B-grade zombie film with paper-thin cookie cutter characters and sequences. Only relative to the rest of the season was it any good; in the context of the series as a whole, it was still the worst action-oriented episode (Blackwater was best).
apart from the explosion, the blackwater battle looked and felt super cheap
the best action sequence of the show was easily and by far the battle at castle black, for the 360° shot alone, but even the rest didn't look cheap at all but it was really engaging and fun
and needless to say, hardhome was nothing short of spectacular
There were some great character moments in Blackwater, though. Joffrey's cowardice, Cersei's acceptance of death, The Hound fleeing. The action was so low budget that it was laughable, but the episode was fantastic because of all the great character building it did. I get so tense when Cersei asks Shae what her life story was after seeing that she couldn't even curtsy. Really great stuff.
Not to mention that in retrospect, the fighting scenes in Blackwater after the wildfire explosion look very cheaply made.
A few shots of twenty guys running around every so often on a set.
Edit: I've always thought (ever since seeing this shot) that Blackwater would hold up a lot better if it had a shot like this showing the scope of the battle.
I've always been interested in what Blackwater would be like with the current production values and budget (not to mention not having to have a director sub in last minute). Blackwater is probably the most interesting battle in the series so far from a narrative perspective (it has the most main characters involved and it's a battle that has characters you'd like to see triumph on both sides).
Yeah those overhead scope shots are a great way to not only enhance a battle scene they shoot, but also an effective way to convey a battle without really doing a full battle scene (think Stannis' remaining troops getting destroyed by the Bolton's in 510). Conveying a battle happening without shooting battle scenes is something the show struggled with early on.
Fun fact: George's initial script for Blackwater just had him in a tent the entire episode.
apart from the explosion, the blackwater battle looked and felt super cheap
the best action sequence of the show was easily and by far the battle at castle black, for the 360° shot alone, but even the rest didn't look cheap at all but it was really engaging and fun
and needless to say, hardhome was nothing short of spectacular
The Castle Black episode was well directed, but kinda fell flat for me. Not as much tension and Drama as Blackwater, nor the same insanity as Hardhome.
I can't believe anyone disliked Hardhome. I had been waiting for the walkers to come in full force since scene one of episode one. They nailed the atmosphere. I loved every second of it. I kept thinking it would end but it just kept going. One of the best episodes in the series.
The thing about Hardhome vs Blackwater is that the latter had palpable, lasting character impact and the only thing that makes a damn from the former is everyone understanding how impossible it is to actually win this war. All the rest, even when it was good, didn't matter at all. Most everyone interesting died except for the ones who were never gonna die there - Tormund, Jon, etc. - which meant there was little suspense.
I like the fighting and the action in a popcorn sense but as impact goes, Blackwater wins that all day long.
The thing about Hardhome vs Blackwater is that the latter had palpable, lasting character impact and the only thing that makes a damn from the former is everyone understanding how impossible it is to actually win this war. All the rest, even when it was good, didn't matter at all. Most everyone interesting died except for the ones who were never gonna die there - Tormund, Jon, etc. - which meant there was little suspense.
I like the fighting and the action in a popcorn sense but as impact goes, Blackwater wins that all day long.
Something something Jon's sword. That part was pretty important in understanding Jon's importance to the fight. Also it very clearly laid out what they are up against, a never ending army.
Maybe I'm a bit overly hopeful/naive, but... I honestly am thinking that Season 6 is going to turn out significantly better.
Season 5 had to be what it was simply because AFFC and ADWD are huge, unwieldy, overstuffed beasts of books, and frankly, I don't think it'd be faithfully adaptable as one season - and if adapted as two, the first season would have had no natural narrative climaxes. That's not to say they're BAD by any stretch of the imagination - I still feel like I like AFFC more than most people - but just incredibly troublesome to adapt.
So their solution to kind of invent some plots to save some stuff for Season 6 and still have climaxes for those characters in Season 5 makes sense in that light. (Especially because it seems like SPOILERS
Jamie and the Ironborn at the very least - maybe also Brienne? - are now resuming their AFFC/ADWD plotlines.
)
And obviously, they botched some of these. Especially Dorne. But FUCK making the changes they needed to make to do that could not have been an easy task, and all of those decisions I'm sure were ones they agonized over.
And yet, even with those changes, they still took pains to have most of the end of the season line up with the cliffhangers from ADWD, which is why I think that those choices truly were made under the best of intentions of trying to adapt these incredibly difficult-to-adapt books and still make it work in the 10-episode season format.
Not only that, but also Hardhome was far and away the best episode of last season and it was pretty much all invented material. And I'm not just talking about the end there, lots of invented stuff earlier in the episode like Tyrion and Dany in the throne room was great too.
So with both of those things in mind, I truly think that now that the show is freed from the adaptation constraints we're going to get a better season 6.
Well, I personally thought S5 was a mess, not only because of the changes we angry book readers hate so much, but because I thought the episodes felt unconnected and there was no overaching plot. Like they just stapled together random stories and hoped for the best.
Most surely that comes from the fact that AFFC and ADWD are actually a mess, but the show didn't fix nothing. I do hope they make something good out of S6 now that they are mostly free of the books.
So yeah, #angrygotfan reporting
PS: I still think the show is very much worth watching, the acting, directing and production values are outstanding. But the writing? All my nopes.
Something something Jon's sword. That part was pretty important in understanding Jon's importance to the fight. Also it very clearly laid out what they are up against, a never ending army.
Speaking of which, for those that followed Grantland's GoT coverage, Bill Simmons' new site (The Ringer) announced the hiring of Jason Concepcion this morning, who did the Ask the Maester pieces for Grantland and was on the podcasts with Andy and Chris discussing the show. Looks like they'll have the gang together this year as well.
The thing about Hardhome vs Blackwater is that the latter had palpable, lasting character impact and the only thing that makes a damn from the former is everyone understanding how impossible it is to actually win this war. All the rest, even when it was good, didn't matter at all. Most everyone interesting died except for the ones who were never gonna die there - Tormund, Jon, etc. - which meant there was little suspense.
I like the fighting and the action in a popcorn sense but as impact goes, Blackwater wins that all day long.
Seeing the white walkers demonstrating their power and showing the wildlings convinced because of their threat is plenty enough of a damn for me. And even though I knew Jon would be safe until FTW, I watched it with people that didn't. Jon vs the white walker was tense for them and they loved seeing longclaw come in the clutch and Jon shattering the white walker.
There are reasons to prefer one battle over the other, but I don't see how no notable deaths can be a negative of HH but not BW. Refresh me if needed but I don't recall anyone important or even with spoken dialogue dying at BW. At least HH gave us that mother and the Thenn.
It certainly wasn't season 3, but given books 4 and 5 aren't written as concisely as 3 we can say that it's as good as it could have been given the material and D&D's usual sprinkling of bonehead decisions (Dorne for example).
Well, just started my third reading of the books. Have a feeling winds will be here by years end and I want to be ready. Also because the show's lore is kinda replacing book lore in my memory, and I can't let that happen.
Well, just started my third reading of the books. Have a feeling winds will be here by years end and I want to be ready. Also because the show's lore is kinda replacing book lore in my memory, and I can't let that happen.
It certainly wasn't season 3, but given books 4 and 5 aren't written as concisely as 3 we can say that it's as good as it could have been given the material and D&D's usual sprinkling of bonehead decisions (Dorne for example).
Season 4 & 5 are are good* as they could have been given the show. Nothing to do with the books.
After the mini-trilogy of seasons 1 - 3 we could have done with some down time. A period of introspection, time for the characters to reflect on what they'd done & lost and what that had turned them into.
There's plenty of material in the books for that and it could have been turned into great TV, but because GoT is basically a Hollywood blockbuster at this point where every season must be BIGGER and MORE SHOCKING than the last then so much of AFFC/ADWD had to be brushed off as 'too boring for TV'. So we got season 5.
*Season 4 was pretty solid as far as events went, I think. Seasons 5 is the first season that really dropped in quality for me.
I legitimately don't even understand why the Game Of Thrones cast offering support of refugees is so massively downvoted and disliked on Youtube. This is a series where one the of the most beloved protagonists offers support to refugees in a time of crisis. Do people not see the parallels?
I legitimately don't even understand why the Game Of Thrones cast offering support of refugees is so massively downvoted and disliked on Youtube. This is a series where one the of the most beloved protagonists offers support to refugees in a time of crisis. Do people not see the parallels?
Not to mention that in retrospect, the fighting scenes in Blackwater after the wildfire explosion look very cheaply made.
A few shots of twenty guys running around every so often on a set.
Edit: I've always thought (ever since seeing this shot) that Blackwater would hold up a lot better if it had a shot like this showing the scope of the battle.
I legitimately don't even understand why the Game Of Thrones cast offering support of refugees is so massively downvoted and disliked on Youtube. This is a series where one the of the most beloved protagonists offers support to refugees in a time of crisis. Do people not see the parallels?
After the mini-trilogy of seasons 1 - 3 we could have done with some down time. A period of introspection, time for the characters to reflect on what they'd done & lost and what that had turned them into
Totally agree. Feast & Dragons are the aftermath of The War of the Five Kings. That's what makes them so compelling. The realm is quieter as people deal with what happened and move in place for whatever is to come.
The show wanted more shocking twists, though, so they ignored the contemplative narrative. Shame but whatever. At least S4 is still good. Their decision to basically ignore the setup stories makes me think they don't have enough confidence in the audience to understand nuance or in their own storytelling to keep it compelling.
I legitimately don't even understand why the Game Of Thrones cast offering support of refugees is so massively downvoted and disliked on Youtube. This is a series where one the of the most beloved protagonists offers support to refugees in a time of crisis. Do people not see the parallels?
Speaking of which, for those that followed Grantland's GoT coverage, Bill Simmons' new site (The Ringer) announced the hiring of Jason Concepcion this morning, who did the Ask the Maester pieces for Grantland and was on the podcasts with Andy and Chris discussing the show. Looks like they'll have the gang together this year as well.
Chris and Andy host a very special 'Watch the Thrones' reunion! They welcome back Jason 'The Maester' Concepcion (6:00) and listen to wise words from 'The Mother of Dragons,' Mallory Rubin (21:30), as they break down the major story lines going into the sixth season of 'Game of Thrones'.
