Ian McShane on Game of Thrones:
He also responds to the internet's reaction to him spoiling a certain character's return.
He also responds to the internet's reaction to him spoiling a certain character's return.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Again, I'm not even talking about the Shireen thing, I'm talking about going forward, shit we haven't even seen in the upcoming seasons.
Because the very simplified chain of events of:
Stannis on show burns Shireen
People complain that Stannis would never do that
GRRM says in commentary that he always pictured Stannis and Mel doing that
Seems like it could very easily happen in a much more concrete and categorically identical fashion for some future event on the show and books.
This might fall into the "too ridiculous" category, but what if they turned Ramsay Bolton into a respectable character?
We all know Jon's going to end him in some fashion, but what if in an alternate history, his ascension to power made him more serious about family?
He married some noble woman, stopped the torture, and fathered a north-ruling family.
Then he was somehow instrumental in helping to fight off the Whitewalkers.
We all know Jon's going to end him in some fashion, but what if in an alternate history, his ascension to power made him more serious about family?
He married some noble woman, stopped the torture, and fathered a north-ruling family.
Then he was somehow instrumental in helping to fight off the Whitewalkers.
Yeah...
Ironborn/Euron/Asha
Jons Parentage/resurrection
Sam(Oldtown?)
Kevans death? Varys allegiance?
Martell plot(not sure where the show is going with this.)
Sansa/Rickon
A lot of these might happen in the first 5 episodes if at all but there are still spoilers, including ones I'm fogetting.
Sorry but where in the show is it shown Stannis burned his daughter to change the weather? That he knew that's all it would do? He burned his daughter to win the battle and save the kingdom, it just didn't work.
And it was probably rushed because they knew Stannis wasn't important to the main story and had to get his stuff out of the way. Unfortunate but that's how it had to be I guess.
Sansa/Rickon? What's that? I don't remember that from the books. If it's from leaks or pictures from the set, then I don't want to know that and find it out from this thread either. The rest are minor, no one cares about Sam, the Martells, Ironborn, and Kevan, and everyone knows about Jon.
That's why he did it at that time rather than before or later. He wouldn't have done it were it not to change the weather.
Watch the scene where he talks to Shireen right before the burning. He's making the decision because he's out of options and so he can fulfill his destiny. In his mind he's the chosen one and has to save the world no matter the cost. Dumbing it down to it was just to "change the weather" is some simplistic bull shit used to fit people's narrative.
It doesn't fit the book's narrative. Like a piece of the puzzle just wedged in because it seems right but isn't. There's a lot of that in season 5.
Stannis Baratheon isn't a likeable character but he wasn't supposed to have his endgame decision made that quickly.
It's not. It's the truth. He could have did it at Castle Black and Dragonstone if he wanted to ensure their success. He did it during the blizzard because he wanted the weather changed so they wouldn't die. That wasn't enough for book Stannis. Book Stannis was prepared for the possibility that he and his army might starve to death in the snow and he might not be the one to fulfill the destiny. He simply said to crown Shireen in that case. So something really drastic has to happen to make him change his mind. It can't be anything like what happened in the show.
Anyone expecting the next season to be well-written? We all wondered what would happen to the shows quality once they outpaced the books, and the last season gave us the answer we all feared... however the one caveat was that they were adapting the two worst books in the series anyways, which is why I am still debating this topic.
Well written? Nah. I hope it's well staged and well acted though. I see at least 2 battles that look really cool, so I'm hopeful.
Moff
Member
no, although I do think D&D are capable to write well, the critical success and the ratings of season 4 have clearly proven that people love the show D&D have created regardless of the source material, so they will continue what they did.
I did not like AFFC/ADWD, D&D changed it, it was more entertaining, but a lot dumber. certainly not better, but not really worse either. and at the moment, as I said before, I am not really thrilled for either TWOW or season 5. I will certainly consume both as they are available, though. it's still a nice franchise.
Pretty much the only good thing about the whole of Season 5
Basileus777
Member
He's right on the money.
one had tits to get out on the reg
Oldest Snake
Member
Can't be a good whore when you keep makin' pussy half price.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I can think of two big reasons...
badcrumble
Member
I think the showrunners thought it was important to set up the Boltons as a genuine Big Bad and treat everything else as subplots, sort of like how that's Joffrey is for the first third of the story, whereas GRRM's treatment of the AFFC/ADWD era is instead to have a bunch of interlocking microconflicts and no faction truly being on top. I think we'll see a (rough) return to be closer to the books in the third act of the overall series when it's all about humanity versus the Others.
Yeah, it's too bad Jon is dead.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Has this been posted yet? http://vocaroo.com/i/s1YyxoghdauT
Sounds like that article stating Stannis's involvement in Shireen's burning had been confirmed to happen in the books from GRRM was taken right out of context. Well, assuming this is what it was referring to anyway.
Sounds like that article stating Stannis's involvement in Shireen's burning had been confirmed to happen in the books from GRRM was taken right out of context. Well, assuming this is what it was referring to anyway.
demosthenes
Member
I'm hopeful. I hope that last season was giving grrm a chance at getting his book out before some big twists come into play so they wrote it to be filler shit, and grrm still doesn't have his book out.
Was there filler? If anything, they rushed through storylines (Sparrows ascent, Stannis' downfall). And they could have resurrected the Greyjoys or introduced Dany's suitors if they needed more plot.
My problem wasn't that the season was skimpy, is that a lot of their story inventions didn't work.
Dash_Riprock
Member
The entire Jamie in Dorne arc was filler, as was Hardhome.
Dash_Riprock
Member
From an anime standpoint, Filler is anything that wasn't in the original novel/manga the anime was adapted from. So in that case, Hardhome was filler.
That's strange. The conversation between Cersei and Robert in S1 gave insight into their marriage and a greater understanding of who they were. Hard to consider that filler.
Steelyuhas
Member
That's a strange definition of filler.
Basileus777
Member
It's a dumb definition that has no place when discussing GOT.
This is right. The season's problems weren't the book's problems. The show was just written poorly and rushed everything that should have been important and good. Perhaps if Stannis was struggling over the decision to burn Shireen and starving in the snow for most of the season, then it would have worked. It could have made for lots of really tense, dramatic, and emotional scenes. Instead it was shock and Stannis looks evil and it comes off as stupid.
The book was written well, just bloated with all the useless new POVs, needed to be edited down, and lacked a climax because he couldn't fit it in. If you just look at POVs by themselves, Cersei's and Jon's were as great as every other POV from any of the books. Theon's, Bran's, Jaime's, Davos's, Asha's, Sansa's, Arya's, Barristan's, and Dany's were all fine. Tyrion's and Brienne's weren't good simply because of the bloat. We didn't need all of those chapters for as little as they accomplished.
When I go back and read FoC and ADWD, I skip over all the Ironborn, Dorne, Tyrion, and Brienne chapters and if you do that then I think they're pretty good reads.
It won't and it shouldn't. The show producers are idiots. Most fans do know the characters better.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Not disagreeing, but see my post that has an audio clip from the Blu-Ray:
Apparently there was no comment from George, it was just Iain Glen speculating in the commentary based on what we already heard D&D say in the behind the scenes materials.
Oldest Snake
Member
There's no comment from GRRM, unless I've missed something.
D&D said after the Shireen episode aired that he had told them Shireen would be burned but never said anything about Stannis' involvement. In the commentary Iain Glen refers to their comments and that website ran it as official confirmation that GRRM has said Stannis burns Shireen.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, if all it is is what Rogue Agent posted, then George hasn't said shit. And as most others have said, it's likely Shireen will be burned in the books, but the circumstances will probably be different. At the very least it will make more sense.
Huh. This is my definition of filler too as an anime fan. I don't know why everyone is saying that's dumb.
Robb idolizes Ned. In both the books and the show, he wants to be just like his father and every decision reflects that. He's a miniature Ned.
Except in the show he breaks his promise because he met a cute woman. That's not who Robb was at all, in either narrative. By forcing in a love plot where it didn't make sense, the show undermined their own character and proved they didn't understand him or his motivations.
Because added scenes could add important plot details or character development. Did you see my post about Robert and Cercei's conversation? I don't know how anyone could classify that as filler even though Martin didn't write that scene in Game of Thrones.
Basileus777
Member
You don't really need to twist things when D&D's motivations were pretty clear. They wanted to change Robb love interest into something more than a plot device to magnify the effect of the Red Wedding. And they generally succeeded there. I don't really care much for Talisa, but Jeyne Westerling is barely a character in the books, she speaks in two scenes.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, I had less sympathy for show Robb. In the book he made a mistake in a moment of weakness and followed through with it as his father would have. It was a mistake, but I could sympathize. In the show he's basically, "Screw my promises, let's fuck! LOL!"
Oh, I know their motivations. I'm just pointing out how it goes against what they had established of Robb's character. It's hard to argue that they know the characters and story better than fans when they so callously undermine both aspects for shock value (Sansa's rape), emotional manipulation (Robb's wedding) or just no reason (Jamie refusing to sever ties with Cersei)
Basileus777
Member
I think it actually makes him less stupid to do it for love than for honor (despite the fact that he's shitting on the Frey's honor). I don't know that Ned would have done the same. Though that works for his character as Robb actions were often the immature boy's version of what Ned would do.
Yeah, I'm not defending all of their decisions, I just think that particular one worked ok.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Hardhome was the best scene all season tbh
Show fans are so desperate to throw George-too in the face of all criticism
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