Sansa already had that story in the books, though, just massively revised and toned down. She's now all about reuniting with her family (or would be, if she knew they were alive). Her plot doesn't show any sign of being involved with Aegon VI.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
- Status
Ramsay spinoff series.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Is snow alive or not man.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
HE'S DEAD FOR SURE
He's been visiting friends in Belfast for weeks now, so no, I'm gonna say he's dead!
Liquidsnake
Banned
And thats not to film being dead and burned right? I might be done with the show if hes gone.
I don't need any Oysters Clams and Cuckols/Bad Pussy in my life anymore.
StopMakingSense
Member
Everybody knows the first thing you do as an actor when you're let go is fuck about the place the show is being filmed for weeks on end. Certainly not move on to the next gig, no sir.
As far as how long the show will last goes, it does seem like HBO really wants more than 7, and if the choice is between 7.5 and 8 (the producers seem set on not going above 8), in a lot of ways I think it may end up making more sense to do 8. The main argument I previously had against 8 seasons was salary issues, but it seems like HBO doesn't care about that, so it must be doable, on a budget basis.
With budget aside, if they were going to do the 7.5 thing, it would stretch the show's production capacity probably past the limit and knock it out of its normal airing schedule, whereas doing an eighth season would just use their normal cycle and not require further modifications.
With budget aside, if they were going to do the 7.5 thing, it would stretch the show's production capacity probably past the limit and knock it out of its normal airing schedule, whereas doing an eighth season would just use their normal cycle and not require further modifications.
That's because we're still behind. It would be set up within book 6 since right now, both characters are busy: Sansa with Harry and Aegon
Taking and holidng Storm's End
What I think we need to see most with Aegon is the ironic twist that he ends up being a great king. That way, we have Dany crossing the narrow sea with an army and dragons to take back the Iron Throne from...somebody who's actually doing a good job ruling and allegedly part of her bloodline.
George is all about uprooting cliches and Dany coming back to Westeros to liberate it from a terrible king would be as big of a cliche as Robb avenging Ned.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Called it.
bengraven
Member
JonSa confirmed.
Glad they are getting this out of their system. We knew it was going to happen - would be weird to wait until after season 6 to announce something.
(I know it's not official yet, but they should really make it official before season 6)
hey_monkey
Banned
Pretty sure at this point the end game is the Iron Bank coming in to just take over Westeros. Everyone there, living or dead, owes them a fuckton of money, afterall.
Iron Bank takes Iron Throne. Calling it now.
Iron Bank takes Iron Throne. Calling it now.
IRC, the kindly man is not even confirmed to jaqen in the books
Because she steps out of turn to accomplish it. He will help her get her revenge, but not if she's indulging in whims and not doing as she's told (killing the guy at the docks).
biosnake20
Member
Even more time for GRRM to get a book out before the show ends.
It's still not happening.
I don't think so, are you saying that because the faceless man with the "mask" of Jaqen killed himself in front of Arya? I think that was just a trick to look cool on TV, when Arya starts removing masks from the corpse she ends up with a mask of herself, and they have not hinted at all they can make masks of living persons (just imagine how powerful they could be if they could do that).
The whole thing really felt like an hallucination from Arya given she "poisoned" herself by using a face.
To be fair, killing Trant was part of her revenge, not a whim.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Meh, been expecting eight seasons for a couple years now, even with how they chopped the shit out of AFfC and ADWD it won't be hard to stretch it out, the question will be if it's good.
Oh God, they're going trough the filler route, aren't they? Here, have some ideas of my own before your think of something even more terribad than bad pussies:
- Introduce fan favourite character, Penny. Obtain extreme Pig jousting
- Re-introduce the ironborn plot. Yes, they've been missing for an entire season, but hey, everyone loves vikings! Coolness > narrative pace
- Re-introduce lady stoneheart. Because
- Ramsay spinoff
- Sand snakes spinoff
- Sand Snakes & Ramsay spinoff. Arya and Darkstar could make a cameo or two as well
- Add moar terrible, shocking rapes. Melissandre reviving Selysse so she can be raped by zombie-Stannis? Why the hell not? Nobody expects that! You've an amazing plot twist right here!
- Robert's rebellion prequel, because these series needs more bloat, MOAR
- Dunk and Egg prequel, the prequel that nobody asked for
This series is such a rich tapestry ripe for narrative, I cannot wait!
- Introduce fan favourite character, Penny. Obtain extreme Pig jousting
- Re-introduce the ironborn plot. Yes, they've been missing for an entire season, but hey, everyone loves vikings! Coolness > narrative pace
- Re-introduce lady stoneheart. Because
- Ramsay spinoff
- Sand snakes spinoff
- Sand Snakes & Ramsay spinoff. Arya and Darkstar could make a cameo or two as well
- Add moar terrible, shocking rapes. Melissandre reviving Selysse so she can be raped by zombie-Stannis? Why the hell not? Nobody expects that! You've an amazing plot twist right here!
- Robert's rebellion prequel, because these series needs more bloat, MOAR
- Dunk and Egg prequel, the prequel that nobody asked for
This series is such a rich tapestry ripe for narrative, I cannot wait!
bodyofanamerican
Member
100% agreed. Ugh.
Well she was never there to begin with, they would merely introduce her
At first I was excited but you guys are probably right D: I can already see Dany still not going to Westeros 2 seasons in a row.
He was already going to be shit on further by there most likely being some sort of Northern rebellion plot next season due to certain castings. Ugh.
I really do wonder how much they regret some of their season 5 decisions now that they've given up on the 7-season dream.
Then again, their worst decisions were in Dorne, where they weren't really rushing things. They just wrote an awful story. So maybe more time wouldn't have saved the Northern stuff either.
Steelyuhas
Member
To be fair, we don't know what the content roadmap for the rest of the series looks like, and the consensus here has kind of been not really believing the "shooting for seven seasons".
A lot of the discussions here have been based on what Dance sets up, people have believed that they show probably needed 3 seasons after the Dance content. Looks like that's what we're going to get, so I don't think it calls for the bad news parade.
Vade
Member
Bearded Monk, one of the strongest guardians in Dorne, has giant glaive -book
Terry Crews is back with a bland personality and a large axe he will not be using because we spend our budget on one episode - show
Dorne is bad ,but the North is just as bad. I understand not wanted to have the divergence that the books do because " WHERE ARE MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS WHO ARE THESE FUCKERS?". However, rather than using some strong writing to weave their way through these places, they took the D & D chainsaw through the story.
I don't really mind their changes to Hotah, other than the fact that they introduced a character who is all about his giant axe and then never showed him fighting. My problems there are more about the complete lack of any characterization on Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. They're nothing but murder drones the whole season. The single best Sand Snake scene was the gratuitous Tyene topless scene which would usually be the sort of woman-takes-her-top-off-for-no-discernible-reason-that-we-must-have-at-least-twice-a-season scene that I would hate just because Nym and Obara rolling their eyes at her was the closest thing to a real human emotion they had all season. Add the hokey, poorly choreographed, whip-and-double-dagger combat on top of that, and it was all just bad. And then ending it on "Ok, we surrender... HAHA JK WE MURDERED HER ANYWAY" was just like.... what? And no master plan from Doran? Nothing?
I've said this before, but I think what frustrates me the most was how close they came to finding elegant solutions towards creating an abridged version of Feast/Dance, only to bungle them all. Sansa in Winterfell could have been a cool story where they transplant her political development that happens in the Vale in the books into the Northern story, and show her quietly rallying the Northern lords against the Boltons from within. They could have delayed the wedding long enough that it never happened and we never had to see Sansa raped. If they wanted the "warm her up, Reek" scene so badly, they could have used their Myranda character for it. Instead it's just non-stop Ramsay horror show, and all signs of Northern resistance are stomped out by Ramsay's almighty flaying knife.
Sending Jaime to Dorne would've worked fine to put a familiar face there and to delay the Riverlands plot to the next season, if they had just left the rest of the Dornish story largely intact instead of replacing it with four women yelling about murder. Even the Ellaria/Arianne merger could have worked fine, if they had actually included any of Arianne in her character. Instead of a story about someone foolishly thinking they can start a war and get everything they want without getting any blood on their hands at all only to have it all horribly fall apart, we get a story about how this lady wants to murder this girl, she gets stopped from murdering the girl, and then murders the girl anyway.
Doing Hardhome was a really smart way to inject some action into Jon's plot and to keep the White Walkers front and center, but then they just discard all logic after that to get to the stabbing. Alisser lets him in and lets the wildlings through, only to murder him the next night? Everyone saw the real threat, but that doesn't dissuade anyone from committing the murder? But it would be too hard to get to the Pink Letter to actually justify this stuff, so whatever, we'll just have it happen for no reason.
I think the only character where their changes really worked out was Tyrion. Cutting the Griffs to speed him along to Meereen didn't really end up harming his story much. I think Arya worked well, too, but that's because she got the pretty straightforward sort of adaptation that they've mostly done in previous seasons.
So yeah, anyway, I guess my point is that their greatest weakness is less in how they structure stories, whether they'd doing it over 7 or 8 seasons, and more the way they establish character and motivation on the micro-level when they don't already have it done for them by GRRM, and I can't really see that changing whether or not they have two seasons or three left.
Steelyuhas
Member
I wish Hotah was played by Terry Crews, that would be amazing
biosnake20
Member
Hopefully GRRM takes a more hands on approach on the remaining seasons to help them create the structure.
Vade
Member
They train is already off the rails; I want this to roll into the town and take as many with it as possible.
Season 5 didn't have any filler that I could remember. It was mainly a condensed, bastardized version of the book with all the logic thrown out.
They probably have access to a lot of WoW for season 6, but season 7 will be filler/trash. Maybe Martin will have something written for Season 8 by the time they get there.
They probably have access to a lot of WoW for season 6, but season 7 will be filler/trash. Maybe Martin will have something written for Season 8 by the time they get there.
Sounds like someone needs the bad pussy.
See, that line can nullify anything. It is the ultimate trump card.
The Dorne storyline was awful for sure. Oberyn is obviously strongly against harming children considering what happened to his nephew and niece, yet Ellaria cooks up this ridiculous plan completely goes against this idea. Doran literally does nothing, and Jaime, one of the most interesting and complex characters in the entire series, does NOTHING all season. Think of his season by season arc. You can see a lot of growth and development. How did he grow at all this season? He didn't. Not an inch.
I would say overall Jon and Cersei had the most interesting and well-executed storylines. Jon's story showed us the difficulties he faced as a leader, expanded upon the aftermath of the attack on the wall, we saw growing tensions between the watch and the wildlings, plus some actual advancement in the white walker storyline which is more than could be said for the books. Jon's scenes with Stannis were some of the best this season, and it really was the best Stannis material of the entire show. The only real goof is not foreshadowing Jon's resurrection well enough and trying to make people think he's permadead. Cersei's storyline was also well-paced and touched on the important points. They found a wonderful actor to play the High Sparrow who gave one of the best performances of the season. The walk was done as well as it could have been. Perhaps the worst thing was Robert Strong's goofy zombie makeup. Please give him a full helm next season.
Honestly, after season 4 I was very skeptical about them finishing up the series in seven seasons. They didn't even finish all of the ASOS material until this year. Not to mention TWOW is supposed to be quite massive and has to advance or resolve literally dozens of plotlines. Look at this MADNESS. I know the show doesn't mention half of that, but it's still a lot of ground to cover. Is Dany supposed to go from the Dothraki to Westeros or whatever her fate is in twenty episodes? I don't see it. Ten seasons is a bit out there, but it's gotta be at least eight (they can "make the eight").
Liquidsnake
Banned
XD Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Pyramid head
Banned
They fucked Jon up too. Really fucking badly imo. Not the character himself, but his death scene/mutiny. Without the 'pink letter' the whole thing was completely motiveless. Just having Aliser and the rest of the watch repeat, "The wildlings! The wildlings! For the Watch!" over and over not only makes no sense whatsoever and makes them all seem flatout mentally retarded, with no memory of the greater threat they've seen multiple times with their own eyes by this point, it makes it seem like D&D think their audience is just as dumb.
Did that scene go down well with the unsullied? Did nobody think it was really stupid that this was the reason Jon was killed? Because "something, something, the wildlings, something", dispite the fact it does nothing to address the fact that the wildlings are still all there and the fact that it was Aliser who let them through in the first place?
Vade
Member
I really hope they do not use WoW. If you want to talk about destroying stories Chris Metzen is your guy. Actually it makes perfect sense. D & D are the Chris Metzen of Game of Thrones: young writers with ambitions and respect for their professions. They have incredible early success that it goes to their heads that they are god of this universe, they know best. Soon the intriguing story-lines and ambiguous characters and characterization is replaced with simple black and white characters and predictable story-lines.
Their belief that they can do no wrong and hide behind others when they are called out on their sloppy writing is well noted.
Ehhhh what? D & D 100% did the right thing by severely condensing Feast & Dance; the issue was that they did it poorly and their original material was generally pretty crap.
They're good at adapting quality fit for TV material but clearly aren't talented enough to turn all the bloat into a good 10 episode series.
Maybe the answer was really splitting the material over two seasons. But instead of splitting things the way GRRM did, they could have split it by Ice and Fire. Yes people would have been upset at first because of one season without Tyrion or Dany and another without Jon or Arya but this gives each storyline the time and budget it deserves.
Season 5 could have been Fire. It could start with Tyrion in Pentos and go through his arc, Dany's, King's Landing, Dorne (with the right amount of time and funding), Aegon could have even been included. It would end with the Battle of Meereen.
My idea with Aegon would have been Varys travelling with everyone but the boat is wrecked after the Greyscale attack so they stop in a nearby town, where JonCon gets into a fight with Jorah thinking he's trying to take Aegon but Jorah ends up escaping alive and kidnapping Tyrion. Varys could then be used to ease the audience into Aegon and JonCon's plotline as he travels with them. Hiring a great actor like Kevin McKidd to play Jon would make things much easier as well.
Season 6 could have been Ice, focusing on the Starks and Stannis. It would include The Wall, Arya at Braavos, Sansa & Littlefinger, Winterfell (maybe you can still condense Sansa with the Boltons' arc), Brienne in the North, Stannis' Battles, Hardhome, maybe brief segments with Bran, the Battle of Winterfell, and it would end with Jon's Assassination. There would actually be a budget for the Northern Lords to be included.
Season 5 could have been Fire. It could start with Tyrion in Pentos and go through his arc, Dany's, King's Landing, Dorne (with the right amount of time and funding), Aegon could have even been included. It would end with the Battle of Meereen.
My idea with Aegon would have been Varys travelling with everyone but the boat is wrecked after the Greyscale attack so they stop in a nearby town, where JonCon gets into a fight with Jorah thinking he's trying to take Aegon but Jorah ends up escaping alive and kidnapping Tyrion. Varys could then be used to ease the audience into Aegon and JonCon's plotline as he travels with them. Hiring a great actor like Kevin McKidd to play Jon would make things much easier as well.
Season 6 could have been Ice, focusing on the Starks and Stannis. It would include The Wall, Arya at Braavos, Sansa & Littlefinger, Winterfell (maybe you can still condense Sansa with the Boltons' arc), Brienne in the North, Stannis' Battles, Hardhome, maybe brief segments with Bran, the Battle of Winterfell, and it would end with Jon's Assassination. There would actually be a budget for the Northern Lords to be included.
biosnake20
Member
The better the material and the less D&D feel like they have to cut material the better the season. That's what we've seen so far with this show. Books 2/4/5 are considered by most to be the weaker books and those were also the weaker seasons. While books 1 and 3 are considered the strongest books and also the strongest seasons. So hopefully the material in books 6 and 7 are great so D&D have the least room to fuck stuff up.
Hopefully the majority of book 6 is already written so they can have an easier job adapting it. But because book 7 is just a barebones outline that makes it a much scarier situation.
tl;dr: The less room they have to fuck up the better
Hopefully the majority of book 6 is already written so they can have an easier job adapting it. But because book 7 is just a barebones outline that makes it a much scarier situation.
tl;dr: The less room they have to fuck up the better
Vade
Member
Ehhhh what? D & D 100% did the right thing by severely condensing Feast & Dance; the issue was that they did it poorly and their original material was generally pretty crap.
They're good at adapting quality fit for TV material but clearly aren't talented enough to turn all the bloat into a good 10 episode series.
They did the right thing by slashing all the nuance plots and world building? The biggest issue with AFFC and ADWD is their chronology is horrible. Which the combined book 'mostly' fixes. There is some definite slog early on. Is there bloat ,yes, no neutral fan would lie about that. Penny can and should burn in a fire. Cutting 50% of the books and saying it was the correct decision is perplexing to show watchers and idiotic to book readers. Might as well have GRRM narrate the Sparknotes of both books. Would have been more coherent that the show.
I just don't think you can really do 'world building' in a series that way. People would just be complaining even harder that the series is 'slow' and nothing is happening, I think the main problem is that seem to have pulled some stories like Brienne's back to the previous season and left some (if they get to them) for the next, leaving a bit of a void of interest in season 5.
But I'm not as down on the show as many here are. I think the next season will be fine.
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