80s Bad Guy
Banned
High Sparrow playing tommen like a fiddle. Brilliant.
Hay guyz is ramsay really bad, it's so hard to tell.
Hay guyz is ramsay really bad, it's so hard to tell.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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TheCowboyPoet
Member
I can't wait for him to get Jamie's redemption arc in season 7.
Napalm_Frank
Member
I wonder how the reaction to (and portrayal of) Euron will be. He is pretty evil himself but it could be fun to have a villain that is much more active in pursuing world domination or whatever the hell he is after rather than being holed up in a castle.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Conspiracy and Murder I believe.
cartoon_soldier
Member
The brothers for whom he did everything for 5 seasons killed him. He truly was broken.
He could probably continue to do both -- he's a very small player on GOT. Natalie Dormer is Moriarty on Elementary at the same time since she's used on Elementary so sparingly.
I'm sure she was expecting them to an extent -- she knew they'd be trying to save her because that's just what the men in her life do. She's got them under her control. Fortunate timing.
Intheflorsh
Banned
So, any guesses on which midcard character is getting eliminated next week? Pycelle is obviously marked for death this season.
Knowing D&D he'll be reduced to the guy who says "I AM THE (BLANK)" over and over.
I AM THE SEASTONE CHAIR
Truthfully I dunno how he'll be received. Let's be honest- even to us he's a bit of a blank slate. It will be interesting to see how his character is fleshed out.
I'm sure the captain appreciates the crisp clothing a light starch provides.
hipsterpants
Member
I agree that GRRM has taken wayyy too long considering AFFC and ADWD were basically just setup books, but I do believe it negatively impacts the show. Cool things are happening but also feel somewhat unearned, which lessens the impact. Dany last episode for example, and arguably every death this season minus the Night's Watch conspirators. It's like "oh okay, that happened" at every big moment.
m_shortpants
Member
Preview
Littlefinger magic teleporter strikes again
You know, the entire letter to Jon from Ramsay just shows what kind of writers the showrunners are. It's pretty hilarious how one note and devoid of imagination the entire thing is, even taking into account the fact that Ramsay is a one note gimmick character on the show. The threats are so predictable it's almost self-parody at this point.
BASTARD! BASTARD! HEY BASTARD! IF YOU IGNORE ME I WILL KILL ALL THE MEN, WOMEN AND BABIES! I WILL MAKE YOU WATCH ME SKIN PEOPLE ALIVE, GANGRAPE YOUR SISTER, FEED YOUR BROTHER TO MY DOGS, AND I WILL SCOOP YOUR EYEBALLS OUT WHILE YOU'RE STILL ALIVE LOLZ!!!!!
But probably not as hilarious has the decision to subtitle all the Dorthraki dialogue with FUCK, CUNT, etc. Such edge. Much crude. So rude. Wow.
BASTARD! BASTARD! HEY BASTARD! IF YOU IGNORE ME I WILL KILL ALL THE MEN, WOMEN AND BABIES! I WILL MAKE YOU WATCH ME SKIN PEOPLE ALIVE, GANGRAPE YOUR SISTER, FEED YOUR BROTHER TO MY DOGS, AND I WILL SCOOP YOUR EYEBALLS OUT WHILE YOU'RE STILL ALIVE LOLZ!!!!!
But probably not as hilarious has the decision to subtitle all the Dorthraki dialogue with FUCK, CUNT, etc. Such edge. Much crude. So rude. Wow.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Well to be fair the original letter from the books wasn't exactly subtle either.
But that said while I think 90% of the theories about ASOIAF are bogus even tho entertaining I think the letter not being written by Ramsay is definately the most plausible one right after Jon being a Targ. But in the show it obviously is.
But that said while I think 90% of the theories about ASOIAF are bogus even tho entertaining I think the letter not being written by Ramsay is definately the most plausible one right after Jon being a Targ. But in the show it obviously is.
Thought he sent him the exact same note in ADWD except the threat was to kill Sansa instead....
Jack Scofield
Member
Might be a dumb question (or one that's been asked a million times), but why are there still two versions of this thread? Hasn't the show completely moved past the books?
Of course but he can't ignore the white Walker threat, he knows he can't "retire" at all.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I blame Dorne. They started it last season.
some stuff has some stuff hasn't,things have been moved around etc
To be fair this is the book version:
Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.
Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.
I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.
I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.
Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.
Tone and language is pretty much identical haha
Edit: Beaten lol
Napalm_Frank
Member
We still know stuff like
Kevan and Pycelle
Nah, Maegery's crimes went beyond that. She's accused of treason for sleeping with men other than the king. That's punishable by death in every medieval-era judicial system.
It's just really extreme that would be required no matter what crime you're accused of. Though maybe that's not the High Sparrow's plan? Tommen or Cercei could have lied.
Like, there's poetic justice to punish Cercei for sleeping around by making her march naked. But lying about your brother being gay? That just doesn't make sense. My money is on either Cercei or Tommen lying about that to summon Tyrell forces. Seems much more plausible.
Last Hearth
Member
It's the Salt Throne now...
Veritigo_X
Member
Despite the letter in the show having crazier language and threats, the letter in the books sounds like straight ramblings of a madman. Jon probably read that and is like "Your Reek? What the fuck is a Reek?"
Assuming the book letter even came from Ramsay in the first place.
ToyMachine228
Member
Here's a dramatic reading of the pink letter from the books that I think is pretty awesome and effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCHDHZRq9ts
But Mance wrote that one.
The big difference between the letter in the books and the letter in the show is how much information is communicated with the quantity of words. In the book letter, Ramsay is writing to tell Jon Snow that Stannis has been beaten and killed. He is also telling him that he discovered Jon's plan with Mance, and he's exposing his lies. He then tells him that Mance's plan failed and that he has him captive, and have killed his women. He then makes his demands, and the only thing he promises in retaliation if his demands are not met is that he'll kill Jon Snow himself. There's a lot more thought put into designing the letter and what it wants to communicate.
In comparison, the show's letter is him telling Jon things Jon already knows (you let the wildings cross over, blah blah) and the only new piece of info is that he has Rickon and has his dead direwolf. That's all it has. The rest of it is padded with more and more exaggerated threats to the point of it being comical. It's really not the same!
Also, the book's letter didn't end every sentence with "come and see", but I guess maybe this is the show paying homage to the other bad writing in the recent books like "where do whores go" lol.
In comparison, the show's letter is him telling Jon things Jon already knows (you let the wildings cross over, blah blah) and the only new piece of info is that he has Rickon and has his dead direwolf. That's all it has. The rest of it is padded with more and more exaggerated threats to the point of it being comical. It's really not the same!
Also, the book's letter didn't end every sentence with "come and see", but I guess maybe this is the show paying homage to the other bad writing in the recent books like "where do whores go" lol.
Exterminieren
Banned
You know, this sort of criticism is a big part of why I so often have difficulty reading this thread. These sort of attempts to castigate the showrunners while not even considering the reasons why they've made the adaptational choices they have, and completely ignoring or dismissing comparable criticisms of the books.
The letter in the show is EXTREMELY similar to the letter in the books, and frankly the show's Ramsey is not at all dissimilar to the personality and actions of the character in the books. To see this presented as an indictment of the showrunners is laughable, honestly.
There are legitimate and substantial criticisms to be made of the showrunners, but the likes of this, and the litany of similar comments we get week-in, week-out, are not those. They are not even close to those.
Cool. No one's forcing you to read it though!
Nailed it. This thread is often completely unreadable. Perfectly stated by you.
Coin Return
Loose Slot
BUT D&D ARE HACKS!
I'm just really sad that they're going to completely forego the Grand Northern Conspiracy in favor of just continuing to build Ramsey up as a cartoon villain who never has any consequences for his actions (like killing his father obviously in front of witnesses). The entire Northern plotlines are boring and sad.
At least Daenarys is finally done conquering the Dothraki, now we can move on to more important things. Like leaving Slaver's Bay.
At least Daenarys is finally done conquering the Dothraki, now we can move on to more important things. Like leaving Slaver's Bay.
The Grand Northern Conspiracy lives. I still believe!
The ripples of all the concessions made in previous seasons to adapt the books as best as possible (with good intentions originally) have created an increasingly unfaithful feel to every characters actions.
Ser Davos "basically the audience" Seaworth
Ramsey "king of subtlety" Bolton
Dorne ruled by the Sand Snakes
The repeated, and unnecessary punishment of Salsa
Changes they made to Brienne's storyline and Arya's (specifically the two groups meeting and clashing) felt true to the books to a degree and was an understandable change. Combining storylines to simplify things for the viewer is at least purposeful.
The treatment of other characters is less so, it's all quite hammy and heavy-handed, really. Partly because the cartoonish violence and ruthlessness of Ramsey is confined to very few details in the ASOIAF compared to GoT. His letter seems absurd despite being very similar; because of how much more they've shoved his evilness down our throats.
Ser Davos "basically the audience" Seaworth
Ramsey "king of subtlety" Bolton
Dorne ruled by the Sand Snakes
The repeated, and unnecessary punishment of Salsa
Changes they made to Brienne's storyline and Arya's (specifically the two groups meeting and clashing) felt true to the books to a degree and was an understandable change. Combining storylines to simplify things for the viewer is at least purposeful.
The treatment of other characters is less so, it's all quite hammy and heavy-handed, really. Partly because the cartoonish violence and ruthlessness of Ramsey is confined to very few details in the ASOIAF compared to GoT. His letter seems absurd despite being very similar; because of how much more they've shoved his evilness down our throats.
I want to believe too. I'm just having a hard time.
I think you nailed it. Most of his evilness was implied or described after the fact. When the show just shows everything, it kind of just seems more ridiculous than anything else.
Last Hearth
Member
So, if Dany is stabbed and killed, and brought back by a WW as a wight, would she still be fireproof, and therefore unkillable?
This was my thinking as well. Not sure why so many say it's proof that it's not a trap by the Umbers. Instead of trying to bargain for her life, she went straight for the seduction and trying to kill him.
I noticed that as well.
Those "Show vs. Book" memes are poorly done and I think they are confusing people into thinking that EVERY change from the books must be bad. No, it is a different format....some of those book things would never work in a 60 minute TV show.
Last Hearth
Member
Changing from the books is not necessarily bad, it's what they changed it into that are frequently bad.
Talisa was bad, Sansa marrying Ramsay is bad, teleporting LF is bad, Ramsay the Villain Sue is bad, Dorne is bad, need I go on?
Talisa was bad, Sansa marrying Ramsay is bad, teleporting LF is bad, Ramsay the Villain Sue is bad, Dorne is bad, need I go on?
Jack Scofield
Member
Just read the episode description on Wikipedia. How many times is Dany going to be portrayed as a messianic figure? It's like they keep building this up and there's never any payoff. Is she ever going to get to Westeros?
I was thinking. If they wanted to cut Dorne from the show, why not just have Doran kill or imprison the Sand Snakes? Then have a scene where Trystane mourns Myrcella, and then returns to Dorne, as there's nothing for him in King's Landing now. Then just have Doran continue to be passive toward KL and that's that. No need to have more scenes in Dorne, as they're not going to do Aegon anyway.
Doran imprisoning the Sand Snakes after their plot relating to Myrcella would fit with the books, and make much more sense. Instead you have teleporting Sand Snakes wiping the Martell line out of existence as vengeance for the deaths of Oberyn and Elia Martell.
I just can't understand it. I'm willing to give the showrunners the benefit of the doubt that they considered this, but had some overriding reason not to do it that I can't see, though. edit: Although I suppose Ellaria still wants war with the Lannisters. I wonder if that's still going to happen or not.
Doran imprisoning the Sand Snakes after their plot relating to Myrcella would fit with the books, and make much more sense. Instead you have teleporting Sand Snakes wiping the Martell line out of existence as vengeance for the deaths of Oberyn and Elia Martell.
I just can't understand it. I'm willing to give the showrunners the benefit of the doubt that they considered this, but had some overriding reason not to do it that I can't see, though. edit: Although I suppose Ellaria still wants war with the Lannisters. I wonder if that's still going to happen or not.
That's the thing, as a show watcher I don't have an inherent problem with any of those changes, aside from Dorne being horrible which I thought was the same in the books. The show has real life constraints so the shortcuts are perfectly reasonable to me. Not always well executed, but at least reasonable. I was not down for fArya which is the dumbest idea ever to me.
Whoops.
Seastone Chair sounds better anyway.
Had a conversation about this last night. I think they saw the popularity of Joff and thought "well, since the audience liked this brand of evil, let's use this other character and double down!"
That has some merit but the extreme it's been taken to is absurd.
(Pure speculation)- whatever happens with the Faith Militant happens, than in the last episode we hear about Dorne invading and then Kevan/Pycelle die, leading to pure chaos within KL.
A lot of posts go in depth on why decisions made on the show don't work. This thread isn't just "That sucks!" over and over again. It's "That sucks because..." (when things do suck). Like Talisa. That sucked because it destroyed Robb's character. In the books, he was a clone of Ned Stark. He was so noble that he didn't realize when his actions were hurting him and his family, all he cared about was honor. And that's what Robb did. He forsakened his campaign because he didn't want to dishonor this woman who cared for him after battle. The book makes Robb's downfall a part of the personalty we already knew he had. His honor was used against him.
Talisa was Robb being an idiot who doesn't understand how politics works. He choose to break his vow despite the warnings of Cat and with full knowledge of the consequences. He wasn't worried about honor, he was worried about getting that sweet tail. That's a fundamental change that undermines Robb as a character and Cat and Ned as parents. It doesn't make any sense, either, given that he was a mini-Ned before that decision.
People are smart enough to know that books and television are different mediums and that changes are inevitable. But when those changes hurt the story, that's a problem.
Talisa was Robb being an idiot who doesn't understand how politics works. He choose to break his vow despite the warnings of Cat and with full knowledge of the consequences. He wasn't worried about honor, he was worried about getting that sweet tail. That's a fundamental change that undermines Robb as a character and Cat and Ned as parents. It doesn't make any sense, either, given that he was a mini-Ned before that decision.
People are smart enough to know that books and television are different mediums and that changes are inevitable. But when those changes hurt the story, that's a problem.
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