• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6

Status
Not open for further replies.

CloudWolf

Member
Good episode, especially the ending (which I agree is definitely from the books, there's no way D&D thought that up). That said, I have one gripe... why the hell did they even introduce Euron if they're going to neuter everything that makes the character? Also, those are some weak-ass arguments to become king. My girlfriend who knows nothing about the show was watching with me and even she was like: "Those people are really easy to convince."

As someone who studied translation, I could feel a disturbance in the force during that scene. Hundreds of translators around the world simultaneously going "Fuuuck!" and being forced to use explanatory references, their last resort when there are no creative options.
Haha, this is definitely true. The Dutch subtitles for that scene were already hilarious with the grammatical leap necessary to make it work ('hou de deur' instead of 'hou de deur tegen'). I can't even begin to imagine how they were in languages where 'hold the door' can't be translated to something that sounds kinda the same.
 

milanbaros

Member?
Another good episode. This season has so far been better than S5.

Seriously though, people say there is too much story to tell to wrap it up in 18 episodes or whatever the plan is. Then why do they drag their feet so much on so many parts of the story? Why do we need to Arya go through this boring training regime? There is plenty of space, they just need to move quickly.
 

Vinter

Member
Well, things are definitely moving forward now.

I am curious to see where they are going with the WW now that we know how they were created. Feels like they should be more than a simple weapons gone rogue. At least give the leader some more backstory or motivation for what they are doing.

That ending was damn near perfect though. Watching it made me think back to when I was reading the books and how Hodor has been this innocent and friendly character throughout the series. I thought the explanation behind his name was one of the best moments of the entire show so far.

Made symbolic sense for Summer to go given the name, and the origin of how Bran named him after waking up from his coma, where he first encountered Bloodraven. I wonder if we get to see more of those flashbacks in the book.
 
Also can't believe people were guessing the twist nearly a decade ago: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/26325-what-does-hodor-mean/&page=2#comment-1236249

Wouldn't be surprised if all plot twists have been guessed at some point.

I think GRRM admitted as much in an interview from a couple years ago.

Another good episode. This season has so far been better than S5.

Seriously though, people say there is too much story to tell to wrap it up in 18 episodes or whatever the plan is. Then why do they drag their feet so much on so many parts of the story? Why do we need to Arya go through this boring training regime? There is plenty of space, they just need to move quickly.

I'm assuming all of that is baggage carried over from last season when D&D were still writing in the off chance that GRRM would get TWOW out in time.
 
Hodor thing seems wrong, I thought Bran's visions meant to just be memories of events witnessed by weirwood trees. No time travel or visions where no trees anywhere.
 
What an emotional episode ;_;

I feel both sadness and admiration at Hordor for spending his entire life just leading up to him saving Bran! The Direwolfs probably have no actual importance to the overall story line based on the rate they're being killed off! Possible spoiler?
Although I would like Nymeria and her wolf pack to appear at the end of the Bastard Bowl even if she dies. She should at least go down saving Sansa since it was technically her fault that Lady was killed!

And lol @ the Kingsmoot! Was that it? The way everyone spoke about it I though it was some epic Sea Battle or Whale Hunt to decide the new King!
 
Hodor thing seems wrong, I thought Bran's visions meant to just be memories of events witnessed by weirwood trees. No time travel or visions where no trees anywhere.

Even in the book there's a hint Bran is able to reach out when IIRC he calls out his father's name and Ned seems to notice.
 

CloudWolf

Member
That would be a nice bow to wrap to be honest. I like this idea.

However, it sets up the "kill the king, everything else dies" like Avengers 1

I'm almost certain they're going to invoke this trope.

Even in the book there's a hint Bran is able to reach out when IIRC he calls out his father's name and Ned seems to notice.
Also, the entire reason Bran is in north of The Wall is because Bloodraven telepathically called out to him. It's not that big of a leap that Bran can telepathically influence the past through predestination after some training.
 
Hey folks, quick question:

Last night's episode leaked early, and I had heard a rumor that other episodes from this series had also leaked online. Is their any validity in that statement, as I don't intend to pirate+binge them, but I'd like to know if the internet is "safe" for the next few weeks? :)
 

niemant77

Neo Member
What I found quite interesting was the resurrection of Euron after having been drowned, really mirrors that of Jon. So different priests of different gods really use this quite commonly, that was not made that clear in the books.
 
Hey folks, quick question:

Last night's episode leaked early, and I had heard a rumor that other episodes from this series had also leaked online. Is their any validity in that statement, as I don't intend to pirate+binge them, but I'd like to know if the internet is "safe" for the next few weeks? :)

The episodes haven't leaked, but the plot details have.
 

CloudWolf

Member
What I found quite interesting was the resurrection of Euron after having been drowned, really mirrors that of Jon. So different priests of different gods really use this quite commonly, that was not made that clear in the books.

IIRC only the Ironborn use resurrection commonly (or at least, what they believe is resurrection). It's not common practice for Red Priests to go about raising the dead.
 
What I found quite interesting was the resurrection of Euron after having been drowned, really mirrors that of Jon. So different priests of different gods really use this quite commonly, that was not made that clear in the books.
I found no parallels with Jon's at all. One is magic, the other is technically realistic but risky as hell. Stupid as hell, too, as in the books I believed there was CPR involved. The point of the Ironborn ceremony, as far as I understood it, was to get the experience of death, not to roll the dice with someone's life.
 

Enosh

Member
What I found quite interesting was the resurrection of Euron after having been drowned, really mirrors that of Jon. So different priests of different gods really use this quite commonly, that was not made that clear in the books.
ha? red priest resurrected people that have been dead, actual magic, the ironborn thing, at least in the books is more like CPR and even in the show I don't think it was portrayed as him doing any actual magic
 

clemenx

Banned
Haha, this is definitely true. The Dutch subtitles for that scene were already hilarious with the grammatical leap necessary to make it work ('hou de deur' instead of 'hou de deur tegen'). I can't even begin to imagine how they were in languages where 'hold the door' can't be translated to something that sounds kinda the same.
I'm wondering how the fuck they did it in the dubbed version. We get both dubs and subs in Latin America and I know quite a few people who watch the dubbed version.

They didn't do anything with the subtitles here. They probably thought that just by listening the whole thing unfold was enough to figure it out.
 

Arksy

Member
Someone was saying that the children of the forest presented in the show were the last, although I can't remember any reference to it.
 

SteveWD40

Member
So, Benjen / Coldhands?

GoT31.png
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
wow, great episode. the editing seemed much better than usual.

hell, maybe it was the lack of Boltons.
 
As someone who studied translation, I could feel a disturbance in the force during that scene. Hundreds of translators around the world simultaneously going "Fuuuck!" and being forced to use explanatory references, their last resort when there are no creative options.

In Spanish they can translate it this way:

Sujeta la puerta, joder.
Joder -> Hodor.

Joder means Fuck.
 

NeoGiff

Member
Usually I can be quite negative on the show, but I thought that episode was phenomenal, and a solid return to form. I honestly don't understand the hate for "Hold the door". It totally worked for me, and the emotion in the scene was palpable.
 

Joni

Member
Usually I can be quite negative on the show, but I thought that episode was phenomenal, and a solid return to form. I honestly don't understand the hate for "Hold the door". It totally worked for me, and the emotion in the scene was palpable.

Especially the fear and the strength that Kristian Nairn shows in those scenes. He shows so much emotion without using any words.
 

J-Skee

Member
Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 how Hodor got the condition he got from an event that didn't happen yet? All I got is time travel & I know that's stupid, but I can't think of anything else.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 how Hodor got the condition he got from an event that didn't happen yet? All I got is time travel & I know that's stupid, but I can't think of anything else.

It's basically time travel. It's the predestination paradox, one of the most common time travel paradoxes.
 

CloudWolf

Member
If it's Benjen, i hope those 60 minutes are enough for the hell of explanation he has to deliver for missing this long and just where in the world he has been. ^^

"See that hut there? That's where I live."

The sole reason I can see Benjen saving them is that there has to be a reason why Benjen gets mentioned so much in the show lately. When a character suddenly gets mentioned again after five years of nothing, it often means he's about to become important again.
 
"See that hut there? That's where I live."

The sole reason I can see Benjen saving them is that there has to be a reason why Benjen gets mentioned so much in the show lately. When a character suddenly gets mentioned again after five years of nothing, it often means he's about to become important again.
If it's not a case of GRRM pranking us, i have to agree in general. Missing beyond the wall is basically like "1000 ways to die in Westeros", so Benjen alive should really hint at some importance in the story.

But i can't help to have some funny thoughts ... i mean, Benjen missed several trips of the NW beyond the wall, the exodus of the Wildlings, probably a huge army of Wights and WWs roaming the lands and somehow even managed to keep himself hidden from Bran and the Raven. ^^
 

Joni

Member
Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 how Hodor got the condition he got from an event that didn't happen yet? All I got is time travel & I know that's stupid, but I can't think of anything else.

Greenseeing Bran connects to young Hodor to control old Hodor, linking their minds. Young Hodor gets the 'Hold the door' input he doesn't understand.
 
So I just had this crazy theory:

The Children of the Forest are the real enemy, and they've been playing a long game that has been going on a thousands of years. Bran and the TER are their puppets without them realizing it.

Notice how all the CotF we've seen appear to be female, and how much of their "religion" revolves around Weirwood trees. Also notice how their skin appears to be like bark...

Basically, the Weirwood trees are either the male form of the CotF or simply their mature form. The war with the first men started because when they were cutting down their trees for housing, ships. firewood, etc, they were destroying the race. The CotF knew that they couldn't outright destroy the First Men, and even if they did, through their greenseers, they knew that other men would come soon anyway like the Andals.

Their solution: Plot for thousands of years to eventually destroy all men, everywhere.

They created the White Walkers like in the show. However, they are and always have been in their control, at least at first. The Children of the Forest are immortal so long as the Weirwood trees exists. If one of them dies in their child form, they warg back into a tree and eventually a new body grows for them. But they had the White Walkers attack them as well so that they could forge an alliance with the First Men and gain their trust. After the war was won, the children spread the Old Gods religion among the First Men to preserve the Weirwoods. Then they "died off," but in reality they went into hiding, waiting until not only Men forgot about them, but that the world, not just Westeros, was in such a chaotic state that Men would be too disunified to oppose the White Walkers when they return and kill them all.

But they didn't count on thing: The Night's King. Somehow, a man became a White Walker yet retained his free will and took control of the rest. When he learned the truth of the CotF, he set out to destroy them by any means, even if it meant killing any humans that got in his way.

The CotF, weakened as they are, found a solution in Huamn greenseers. By feeding them the visions that they WANT them to see, they convince some human wargs to fight for them and hope to destroy the Night's King.

So the Night's King really is a good guy, even if he is utterly ruthless in his methods. As for why he simply doesn't tell Bran the truth, maybe he can't. The books describe WW as sounding like cracked ice when they speak. Maybe that was a deliberate design by the CotF just in case.
 

Dmax3901

Member
I wonder if there's a redseer somewhere who can talk to people throughout time using the flames thus the lord of light.

Otherwise, great episode, felt like a return to form. Every scene was engaging and wow did we get some fucking answers.

Didn't people in this very thread predict the Hodor thing? Or was that it in the show watchers thread.
 

Forkball

Member
I don't even know where to begin.

+LITTLEFINGER AIN'T GOT NO ANSWER. This is the Sansa we've wanted to see for so long. All of her scenes were captivating, though I have read some people dislike her decision for blowing off the Vale knights. I mean, it is a dumb decision from a rational perspective, but Sansa isn't perfect and her alternative plan is believable. The Jon/Sansa tension was also a bit surprising. Sansa's true feelings about Jon are perhaps a bit of a mystery to the audience since we barely see them interact. I'm interested in seeing how far it goes.
+That play's accuracy was Ember Island Players-esque. That scene was a bit too long, but entertaining. I'm curious to see where Arya's storyline is going to take her. Is she really going to try and leave the Faceless Men after all this time? I do love the irony of them letting her kill "Cersei."
+Good luck, Jorah the Fedora. I wonder why they haven't killed him off yet, perhaps his greyscale cure journey has some importance. Perhaps he returns to Meereen, and then when the slavers attack, he rubs his arm all over them? I'm hoping this is opening the door for a Quaithe return.
+Kinvara is way hotter than Benerro. The Lord of Light stuff is always fascinating to me, so it's good to see more of the red priests/priestesses. Tyrion's scenes have all been stellar this season, I was worried that he wouldn't have much to do. Varys was also legit shook, I can only imagine Tyrion thinking "For fuck's sake, let it go." I like how the show highlights the strengths of both Tyrion and Varys, yet also shows their ignorance of the situation and culture around them. They are trying to apply Westerosi ideas in a place that is remarkably unlike any other location in the world.
+White Walker origins... sheeeeeeeeit. I'll probably elaborate in another post, but this was a huge revelation and confirmation of a theory people have been discussing about for ages. Though it still leaves a tremendous amount of questions. I do feel like it was extremely anticlimatic though. One of the biggest mysteries is just revealed with little build up and the scene goes by so quickly, although it was beautifully shot.
+"Lemme get one more hit on this tree stu-oh shit!" This scene was a heartstopper, filled with moments of ridiculousness (why did the CotF even need to make white walkers if they had a cache of plasma grenades?). Hodor's fate was gut-wrenching. What a tragic tale, basically destined to help others down a path he can't understand and to die in a terrible fashion. I don't know what to think about this time-affecting things. I mean, it's in the book. Patchface blatantly guesses the Red Wedding, and there are moments when Jon thinks he can hear Bran. But this was a shocking example of timeline fuckery. I never really cared about the origins of Hodor's name to be honest. I read some theories that it was of great importance, like it was a dragon taming word and other nonsense like that, but I always assumed it was perhaps something in the Old Tongue that no one would figure out until he meets someone who could speak it. I think this show has forever ruined the innocuous phrase "Hold the door."

-Kingsmoot. BOOOOOO. I'm biased since this is one of my favorite scenes in the series, but BOOOOO. The actors all did a fine job, but the writing and the setting... just a disappointment on every level. No giant bones. No chests of gold. No interesting contenders. No dragon horn. NO PINECONES?! You could argue, "but they can't fit all that into the show!" but this scene seemed absurdly long for what it was. And my god, could they make Euron Greyjoy any more dull? Which of the following lines sounds like something Euron Greyjoy wouldn't say:

"Godless? Why, Aeron, I am the godliest man ever to raise sail! You serve one god, Damphair, but I have served ten thousand. From Ib to Asshai, when men see my sails, they pray."

"Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower? No man ever truly knows what he can do unless he dares to leap."

"We are the ironborn, and once we were conquerors. Our writ ran everywhere the sound of the waves was heard. My brother would have be content with the cold and dismal north, my niece with even less ... but I shall give you Lannisport. Highgarden. The Arbor. Oldtown. The riverlands and the Reach, the kingswood and the rainwood, Dorne and the marches, the Mountains of the Moon and the Vale of Arryn, Tarth and the Stepstones. I say we take it all! I say, we take Westeros."

"Let's go murder them."


SAVE US COLDHANDS
 

duckroll

Member
So I just had this crazy theory:

Yeah it's crazy because that flies against all the evidence of how the show is made and the audience it is intended for. This is now some long con GOTCHA show. It's straightforward and presented in the most direct way possible so people won't misunderstand. Overthinking it to try and come up with some crazy theory is a waste of time. :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom