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[Lothar]

I guess that's one way to look at it. Another would be we just had a season and a half of Arya deciding whether or not she was going to throw away her identity for....reasons. Ultimately she realized that killing for the Faceless God and forgetting about her family were not things she was willing to do.

That sounds good until you remember we had to watch 20 scenes of her getting beat with a stick. Her last fight scene with the Waif ended with her getting beat with a stick, showing she hasn't progressed much.

That said, I did love the Arya scenes from this episode. I do love that she turned him down because she is unwilling to kill an innocent. I loved her showing sympathy for Cersei and laughing at Joffrey dying in the play. That was all perfect. But that doesn't make up for watching her get beat up with a stick for 2 years. All of the stick fighting parts feel like such a waste of time. Her leaving and her reasons for leaving are fine but the training parts should have been done differently.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Why are people in the other thread referencing Benjen as "Coldhands"? Did the behind the scenes videos mention that or something?

Yes, in the after-the-show interviews, one of Ds said "Benjen Coldhands," which is pretty funny to me but whatever.

Anyone else think this was the entire point of Varys/Illyrio's plot. In Dance the Golden Company mentions that the plan was for them to meet up with Viserys and the Dothraki, then sail for Westeros. I can't help but think Viserys was supposed to land first. He could surely do a lot of damage and quickly turn the people against him. And then Aegon would land somewhere else, promising to bring justice to his cousin. Thus beloved Rhaegar's son would save the realm from the Mad King's mad son.

Not quite. I think Viserys was too terrifying and unpredictable. I think they wanted him to get killed. But the rest of your theory jives with my head cannon. It's weird how many people think Aegon isn't important. He's the rightful heir to the realm and he's going to save the Seven Kingdoms from Dany the Conqueror. He's poised to play a huge role in the upcoming books.

Any theories that the High Sparrow is one of Varys' guys?

He's sowing a lot of chaos in King's Landing and this seems to help Dany out more than anyone.

Fun idea but I don't think there's any chance that's going to happen. It's way too complicated for what the show does. Remember when we debated what the Sparrow told Tommen and what Tommen told Cercei? Turns out the Sparrow said Marg would do the walk of shame, and then he told his mom, and she told the counsel. No deception. No scheming. That's the show's way.

The only hint of scheming comes for Margery's ultimate plan. Everything else is laid bare.

 

[Aurongel]

Just because Arya is betraying the Faceless Men doesn't mean she won't be an assassin. It would be easy money to bet on her going a bit rouge with her new abilities. With or without the faceless men.

 

[Sean C]

Any theories that the High Sparrow is one of Varys' guys?

He's sowing a lot of chaos in King's Landing and this seems to help Dany out more than anyone.

A lot of people used to theorize that in the books, etc., but that would be a total betrayal of the purpose of the character, which is to demonstrate ordinary people striking back at the nobles for all the crap they've caused. If he was a deliberate agent of one of the gameplayers, that would be ruined.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Just because Arya is betraying the Faceless Men doesn't mean she won't be an assassin. It would be easy money to bet on her going a bit rouge with her new abilities. With or without the faceless men.

But can she change faces... That's the main question.

 

[mantidor]

I've been thinking... can Bran find out where Rickon and Arya are? His powers are being nearly omniscient I wonder if he thinks about his siblings at all besides Jon, which we saw in the visions.

 

[q_q]

I hope GRRM had something slightly more original in mind .

There's no such thing as original, just make it interesting.

 

[Jigorath]

So. Danaerys seems pretty unstoppable at the moment. She's got 3 dragons, 10,000 Unsullied, and God knows how many Dothraki. She's likely going to forge alliances with Euron and *shudders* the Sand Snakes who are in control of Dorne. At that point who can even stand against her? The Tyrell/Lannister alliance is crumbling fast, they don't even have control of King's Landing anymore. Tywin and Stannis were her biggest threats and they're both dead.

The Others are going to have to disrupt her victory march next season cause I don't see who else could pose a threat.

 

[Lothar]

Just because Arya is betraying the Faceless Men doesn't mean she won't be an assassin. It would be easy money to bet on her going a bit rouge with her new abilities. With or without the faceless men.

I wonder how she'll put her ability of getting her ass beat with a wooden stick to good use.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just because Arya is betraying the Faceless Men doesn't mean she won't be an assassin. It would be easy money to bet on her going a bit rouge with her new abilities. With or without the faceless men.

As far as the show is concerned she barely has any abilities.

 

[Jigorath]

As far as the show is concerned she barely has any abilities.

She learned how to fight with a stick with her eyes closed!

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I wonder how she'll put her ability of getting her ass beat with a wooden stick to good use.

We'll find out once she puts needle to work

 

[Gigglepoo]

She learned how to fight with a stick with her eyes closed!

That's, like, the main thing every assassin has to learn.

 

[Aurongel]

I wonder how she'll put her ability of getting her ass beat with a wooden stick to good use.

I get the feeling you'll find out in the next two episodes when she confronts the Waif.

Spoiler

Her stashing needle and blowing out the candle is probably a hint towards how she'll do it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

She learned how to fight with a stick with her eyes closed!

Hence my assumption we're having a stickfighting contest in the next episode. I still assume Jaqen is just gonne be like "according to keikaku" once she kills the stick-master. Because if she just runs away, it doesn't seem all that plausible that the Faceless Men would either forget about Arya betraying them or lose the ability to find and kill her given that even in the books the Faceless Men are competent to a semi-ridiculous degree.

 

[mantidor]

As far as the show is concerned she barely has any abilities.

She actually can identify and prepare poisons at the very least.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I am so tired of six seasons of plot lines that never resolve and just spin out into endless despair.

WELCOME, said the book reader.

 

[Cromat]

So. Danaerys seems pretty unstoppable at the moment. She's got 3 dragons, 10,000 Unsullied, and God knows how many Dothraki. She's likely going to forge alliances with Euron and *shudders* the Sand Snakes who are in control of Dorne. At that point who can even stand against her? The Tyrell/Lannister alliance is crumbling fast, they don't even have control of King's Landing anymore. Tywin and Stannis were her biggest threats and they're both dead.

The Others are going to have to disrupt her victory march next season cause I don't see who else could pose a threat.

I'm almost sure she'll go nuts and sabotage herself, just like her father before her. This story is not going end with someone deserving ruling and everything being great. It's going to end with a sort of continuous cycle, like summer and winter.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Not quite. I think Viserys was too terrifying and unpredictable. I think they wanted him to get killed. But the rest of your theory jives with my head cannon. It's weird how many people think Aegon isn't important. He's the rightful heir to the realm and he's going to save the Seven Kingdoms from Dany the Conqueror. He's poised to play a huge role in the upcoming books.

While I think he's important for the next stage of the story and I definitely think he'll win the Iron Throne at some point in Winds or early ADOS, I think there's no way he's an actual Targaryen. There are way too many nods about him being a Blackfyre.

 

[Gigglepoo]

While I think he's important for the next stage of the story and I definitely think he'll win the Iron Throne at some point in Winds or early ADOS, I think there's no way he's an actual Targaryen. There are way too many nods about him being a Blackfyre.

Yup! Though there's a chance he's not even a Blackfyre considering the male line was extinguished when Maelys the Monstrous was killed. But it doesn't matter. I think it's more compelling that someone who acts the part is better equipped to rule than someone born into the role. He's by far the most qualified person in A Song of Ice and Fire to sit the Iron Throne but he could very well be a bastard orphan rescued from the streets of Pentos.

 

[Pezking]

But can she change faces... That's the main question.

Of course she can. She did it last season when she killed Meryn Trant.

 

[Akainu]

So is the flower girl just playing the long con?

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

I'm really getting the feeling this season is going to end with dany finally setting sail. I can see the battle of the bastards being resolved, only for Dany to move in and disrupt the religious power structure in king's landing and then start moving northwards.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I actually agreed with Linda for once when she said they should have done that Dany scene in episode 4.

Have the dragon barbecue the Dothraki temple, then she gives this big rousing speech from Drogon's back.

Nah, I liked that Dany dealt with the Dothraki using her own agency instead of being bailed out by Drogon, especially considering he just airlifted her out of crisis at the end of season 5.

That said, I didn't like the scene at the end of 606. She already had those Dothraki following her, what else did she need to prove? Feels like a scene that's place kinda disappeared...

If Dany becomes a Hitler figure then this show will have lost whatever shred of goodwill it has left with me.

I am so tired of six seasons of plot lines that never resolve and just spin out into endless despair. I know this isn't supposed to be a happy show, but there have always been little things to root for. But if this goes the route of Sons of Anarchy and throws away all its heroes, it's going to become just as miserable to watch as that show did.

While the show has certainly been bleak at times, especially for most of season 5, I think we've seen a few characters emerge as more long-form heroes. Jon and Sansa in the North and the characterization of Tyrion and Varys talking about using their power to try to build a better world.

As for Dany, I still think there will be something more than her just conquering Westeros and claiming the Iron Throne. The House of the Undying vision of Dany in the snow covered throne room comes to mind (which I believe has been seen by Bran in flashes since then). Dany finally reaching Kings Landing only to find it destroyed could be interesting.

 

[echoshifting]

As for Dany, I still think there will be something more than her just conquering Westeros and claiming the Iron Throne. The House of the Undying vision of Dany in the snow covered throne room comes to mind (which I believe has been seen by Bran in flashes since then). Dany finally reaching Kings Landing only to find it destroyed could be interesting.

I really dig the theory that Cersei burns down King's Landing with wildfire before she gets there.

 

[Jigorath]

I'm almost sure she'll go nuts and sabotage herself, just like her father before her. This story is not going end with someone deserving ruling and everything being great. It's going to end with a sort of continuous cycle, like summer and winter.

I never said she'd be a good ruler. I'm saying she's pretty well set up to actually take Westeros now. I agree with what Daario said last episode, she's more of a conqueror than a ruler.

I really dig the theory that Cersei burns down King's Landing with wildfire before she gets there.

Another theory has Jaime burning down the city with wildfire after the Others take over, fulfilling the Mad King's final request.

 

[Lothar]

What a letdown the whole thing will be if Dany never actually invades and it all ends in a fantasy cliche good vs evil battle.

I know that's how most people expect it to end, but I just hope it's not the case.

 

[Gigglepoo]

What a letdown the whole thing will be if Dany never actually invades and it all ends in a fantasy cliche good vs evil battle.

I know that's how most people expect it to end, but I just hope it's not the case.

There's nothing in A Song of Fire that points toward a standard ending battle where the good vanquish the evil. That's not Martin's style and it would be really strange for an anti-war activist to end his magnum opus with a morally black-and-white war.

 

[Speevy]

There's nothing in A Song of Fire that points toward a standard ending battle where the good vanquish the evil. That's not Martin's style and it would be really strange for an anti-war activist to end his magnum opus with a morally black-and-white war.

Well, the part of the series that he's lent to David and Dan ends with a man vs. the destruction of man, regardless of the participants left alive.

 

[Lothar]

There's nothing in A Song of Fire that points toward a standard ending battle where the good vanquish the evil. That's not Martin's style and it would be really strange for an anti-war activist to end his magnum opus with a morally black-and-white war.

I hope you're right and it would be strange, but it's all been building to humans vs evil zombies. Either the humans have to win or the zombies have to win, right?

I want Jon vs Dany, but it doesn't seem very likely.

 

[hoos30]

I actually agreed with Linda for once when she said they should have done that Dany scene in episode 4.

Have the dragon barbecue the Dothraki temple, then she gives this big rousing speech from Drogon's back.

Can you imagine the howls and wails of criticism if they had done that??

DEUS EX-MACHINA! SO PREDICTABLE! OMG!!

 

[Speevy]

Can you imagine the howls and wails of criticism if they had done that??

DEUS EX-MACHINA! SO PREDICTABLE! OMG!!

Well yeah, but it would have been badass, which is what they're going for this season.


If Bran's vision is to be believed, someone else is burning up something this season too.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Well, the part of the series that he's lent to David and Dan ends with a man vs. the destruction of man, regardless of the participants left alive.

I'm going to say this roughly 100 times between now and the publication of A Dream of Spring: I think A Song of Ice and Fire is going to end differently from Game of Thrones. Just a hunch that I have based on knowledge and the willingness to be very, publicly wrong.

I hope you're right and it would be strange, but it's all been building to humans vs evil zombies. Either the humans have to win or the zombies have to win, right?

I want Jon vs Dany, but it doesn't seem very likely.

There's been a pact before. If I had to guess, Jon is important because of his ability to empathize and make peace with his enemies. That's something his stupid father never could have done (Ned is a dumb head!). What he did with the Wildings sets the tone for who he is moving forward.

We'll see if I'm right!

 

[Turin]

Jon vs Dany would certainly create a lot of media buzz.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Jon vs Dany would certainly create a lot of media buzz.

And then they realize they should be working together. Cue make-out scene where, for half a second, everyone thinks "This is pretty hot!" before recoiling in disgust when they remember Dany and Jon are cousins.

Sexy cousins.

 

[Mr Git]

Christ, I'm pretty sure everyone there with the exception of Ramsay has died on the show.

Unfortunately not Chris Martin.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Yeah, I never got the Dany as a "good" character thing. Sure, free slaves, awesome in itself, but from the start, she's always been willing to let hundreds of thousands die to sit her butt on a throne.

 

[Speevy]

I'm going to say this roughly 100 times between now and the publication of A Dream of Spring: I think A Song of Ice and Fire is going to end differently from Game of Thrones. Just a hunch that I have based on knowledge and the willingness to be very, publicly wrong.

I think it will end differently because it has to. The characters they're setting up don't exist in the show and would not make sense.

The books and the show both start the same way, but the show captures only a specific part of the territory, and leaves others out.

It's obvious to me that after the battle for Winterfell is fully decided in the show, the crown and the faith will leave King's Landing in ruins with the Lannisters out of power. Then the whitewalkers will invade the north, forcing the great houses of Westeros to create unthinkable alliances to survive. Millions will die. I'm guessing Westeros will look like something resembling the aftermath of a bomb by the end of season 7.

They're not going to end humanity in the show, obviously, but what remnants survive will have to link back to the human characters who started the show. I'm guessing one of the Starks makes it, whether it's Jon or Arya. Perhaps Tyrion. The wicked or morally grey characters will all be undone by their own lust for power. Littlefinger, Cersei, Jaime, Euron, Dany, Ramsay, etc. will die, but not in a battle with a morally good character.

Perhaps the ending of the show, if it isn't a happy one, is one house starting to ponder a new grab for power, blissfully unaware that they're dooming themselves all over again.

 

[Lothar]

Jon vs Dany would certainly create a lot of media buzz.

You know, Dany did have a vision of Snow on the throne.

After the White Walkers are dispatched in Season 7, season 8 is

King Jon, Davos, Sansa, Arya, and Jaime vs Dany, Tyrion, Jorah, Yara, and Sand Snakes.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I've said it before but GRRM definitely seems like the petty type who will change the books now ONLY BECAUSE the show did some things first. Obviously some things will naturally be different but I have a feeling he's actively looking to change things he had originally planned for the sake of being different.

Which is a huge shame. But just me guessing.

 

[Speevy]

Yeah, I never got the Dany as a "good" character thing. Sure, free slaves, awesome in itself, but from the start, she's always been willing to let hundreds of thousands die to sit her butt on a throne.

Not only that, but she doesn't seem at all willing to entertain the idea that her father deserved what happened to him, and Westeros was better off with him gone, at least for a time.

 

[mantidor]

Not only that, but she doesn't seem at all willing to entertain the idea that her father deserved what happened to him, and Westeros was better off with him gone, at least for a time.

Well she only knew what Viserys told her, once Barristan mentioned why the mad king was the mad king she changed her mind about him.

 

[Aurongel]

I've said it before but GRRM definitely seems like the petty type who will change the books now ONLY BECAUSE the show did some things first. Obviously some things will naturally be different but I have a feeling he's actively looking to change things he had originally planned for the sake of being different.

Which is a huge shame. But just me guessing.

Petty? Based on what evidence?

 

[elrechazado]

Yeah, I never got the Dany as a "good" character thing. Sure, free slaves, awesome in itself, but from the start, she's always been willing to let hundreds of thousands die to sit her butt on a throne.

Mirri maz durr was absolutely right about dany. Horde of killers comes and destroys your civilization and rapes and murders your people and you - and she's supposed to kiss dany's ass for turning her into a poorly treated slave? If maz didn't kill drogo on purpose she should have, and she should have killed dany too given the chance.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Petty? Based on what evidence?

feel it in my gut just based on the aura of his LJ posts

 

[Dusk Soldier]

This bugged me too. Ned would cut Sam's head off.

They're only beheaded for desertion.

Mormont makes a comment in season 1, that if they beheaded everyone that goes to brothels, they'd have no one to defend the wall.

 

[timetokill]

I don't get why so many people are saying Arya has no abilities.

There's literally nobody in the seven kingdoms who can take a stick to the face as well as her.

 

[Speevy]

I don't get why so many people are saying Arya has no abilities.

There's literally nobody in the seven kingdoms who can take a stick to the face as well as her.

She's also really good at spotting a liar. No one has called out more of them.

 

[Kozak]

I don't think Dany is a bad person.

She's just been put on a pedestal from birth. Made to believe by everyone she meets that her family were unjustly dethroned and that she is the rightful ruler of Westeros and the people would welcome her with open hands.

She's Moses without having to prove that she's Moses.

 

[Turin]

Dany has "potential anti-villain" written all over her. We'll see how it plays out.

And then they realize they should be working together. Cue make-out scene where, for half a second, everyone thinks "This is pretty hot!" before recoiling in disgust when they remember Dany and Jon are cousins.

Sexy cousins.

I for one hate the thought of those two becoming love interests and it has nothing to do with them being cousins.

You know, Dany did have a vision of Snow on the throne.

After the White Walkers are dispatched in Season 7, season 8 is

King Jon, Davos, Sansa, Arya, and Jaime vs Dany, Tyrion, Jorah, Yara, and Sand Snakes.

I'm sure they'll at least be at odds at some point. I don't see Jon accepting of the role of king though.