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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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I knew he was going to die but what hurt me in the heart was when he got shot like six more times by stray arrows. Just.. shudder.
wesleyshark
Banned
that's what I'm hoping for.
Pretty much every major decision he made over the course of the series was good. In fact, the only reason they were able to win in this episode was because of the correct decisions he's made over the last two years.
For starters, the watch only held the wall because of him. It was him that infiltrated the free folk and brought news of Mance's impending attack. It was him that suggested and led the attack on Crastor's to prevent Mance from learning how under-manned the Wall was. It was him who made most of the important tactical decisions about the defense of the Wall during it's attack and it was him that led an army of wildlings through the wall - the biggest reason they had enough men to mount an attack on Ramsey at all.
So, yeah, some hateful brothers stabbed him the back for some of the decisions he made. Robb was a great military tactician who was out-maneuvering Tywin Lannister, but still fell to the same kind of thing.
neurosisxeno
Member
I am willing to guess that tales of is fearlessness on the battlefield will squash anyones questioning of his merit. Jon Snow is a lot of things, but he's clearly not a coward, and he's definitely a talented warrior--something people are more than willing to respect. I'm just hoping whether it's him or Sansa in charge, someone gives Lyanna Mormant a damn pile of gold for being the only house to remember their oath.
That was a great episode. Incredible battle near Winterfell. Fucking Rickon's death was cruel. And, incredible scene with Ramsay and Sansa at the end. The way they shot that scene felt like something I would have read from the books, whereas a lot of violence in the show looks comical in terms of visuals/choreography. That felt very dark.
Kudos to the actor who played Ramsay. I hated his portrayal for a while. I felt he was not cruel enough. Too much of a jokester. But, he was amazing in this episode.
Even the Dany stuff was good.
Wun Wun for MVP yo. I knew he was going to die. Obviously, he stands out a lot. And, both Davos and Tormund mean a lot to Jon. That said, it still was shocking to see him die. Mainly because you know he's the last of his kind.
Again, that battle sequence at the end was shot and written brilliantly. I waited and waited for the fucking Eyrie to show up and I started to actually feel like it wasn't going to happen... That fucking George was going to give us yet another bleak end to a Stark and yet BAM. They finally arrived and it felt fucking great. Excellent pacing
Kudos to the actor who played Ramsay. I hated his portrayal for a while. I felt he was not cruel enough. Too much of a jokester. But, he was amazing in this episode.
Even the Dany stuff was good.
Wun Wun for MVP yo. I knew he was going to die. Obviously, he stands out a lot. And, both Davos and Tormund mean a lot to Jon. That said, it still was shocking to see him die. Mainly because you know he's the last of his kind.
Again, that battle sequence at the end was shot and written brilliantly. I waited and waited for the fucking Eyrie to show up and I started to actually feel like it wasn't going to happen... That fucking George was going to give us yet another bleak end to a Stark and yet BAM. They finally arrived and it felt fucking great. Excellent pacing
He failed so spectacularly at convincing the Watch of the true threat that they murdered the shit out of him. Being the boss isn't just about being right, it's about getting results. Even if we wanna say that convincing the Watch of the true threat was an intractable problem and grade Jon a curve for it, he still doesn't have any Ws that matter from a leadership standpoint.
The mission to Hardhome kind of worked out, but only because he did some good fighting. He didn't really have a plan in going there beyond "show up with some boats and Tormund and hope to convince them". Once the battle started he wasn't commanding, just fighting.
The mission to Hardhome kind of worked out, but only because he did some good fighting. He didn't really have a plan in going there beyond "show up with some boats and Tormund and hope to convince them". Once the battle started he wasn't commanding, just fighting.
Lol. The joke that keeps on giving. Baaad pussy.
wesleyshark
Banned
Also possible. Or maybe they'll throw a curveball and introduce Young Griff.
neurosisxeno
Member
I wouldn't say 4 or 5 people who had an axe to grind is really indicative of failure. A majority of the brothers--while not thrilled about it--were in fact convinced by Jon Snow.
Convince them how? They all knew what was out there. Some of them saw for themselves, the others knew. You pointed out that they were "geezers and rapists". The Watch had lost a lot of it's leadership and key members, to no fault of Jon's. He might as well have tried to sell open borders to Trump voters.
In Hardhome, I'm not sure how he could have had a better plan. He came with a offer (you get farmland + safe passage through the wall, along with Dragonglass to fight the Walkers, in return for your help when the fight breaks out) and everyone but the Thenn's accepted his offer.
He accomplished everything he wanted to in Hardhome before the attack even started.
I'm not sure if that's an accurate read. If most of them were really convinced by Jon, then when he was murdered, there would have been an outright civil war on the Wall. That's what happened to the people who murdered Morment. Instead, there was mostly inaction. It was the wildlings who fought back, not the other brothers. What does that say about Jon's leadership?
Moff
Member
I was surprised and confused there was no mention of theons cock at all in the throne room szene
surely there were opportunities. like tyrion "you mocked me at winterfell and behold, now I have a bigger cock than you"
I just realized tyrion is surrounded be eunuchs and women this season
surely there were opportunities. like tyrion "you mocked me at winterfell and behold, now I have a bigger cock than you"
I just realized tyrion is surrounded be eunuchs and women this season
John Dunbar
correct about everything
episode certainly looked good, but couldn't help being bothered how contrived those set pieces were, and they didn't even make sense. if wun wun was real he would have been a perfect counter for that shield wall nonsense. the spears were held so low that a giant could have easily stepped over them and into the formation, and since the spears were so damn long there is no way they could have turned them towards him in that position as he merrily stomped over the whole circle. but eh, whatever, and it's understandable they didn't want to have a giant hanging out any longer on the show.
the ramsay face-off at the end was very silly. jon snow didn't actually order his men to stand down, but still they seemed to be cool at this psycho shooting at him. the moment he raised his bow they should have sent a volley at him.
only real surprise of the episode was that tormund didn't die. considering that some people were hyping up the fact that this episode would begin culling characters for the end game, very few actually kicked the bucket. wun wun was obvious as was ramsay. rickon of course also died but he was even less of a character than wun wun so who cares.
overall it was a good episode, but mainly visually. glad to see that the show is confirming dany's (not so slow) descent into madness. hopefully king's landing goes boom next week, though i still think it's possible that it's somehow avoided.
i don't remember, does tyrion even know the status of theon's cock? the way he said "it doesn't look like it" or whatever when told that theon had paid for his crimes, it made me think that the cock situation is unknown to him.
the ramsay face-off at the end was very silly. jon snow didn't actually order his men to stand down, but still they seemed to be cool at this psycho shooting at him. the moment he raised his bow they should have sent a volley at him.
only real surprise of the episode was that tormund didn't die. considering that some people were hyping up the fact that this episode would begin culling characters for the end game, very few actually kicked the bucket. wun wun was obvious as was ramsay. rickon of course also died but he was even less of a character than wun wun so who cares.
overall it was a good episode, but mainly visually. glad to see that the show is confirming dany's (not so slow) descent into madness. hopefully king's landing goes boom next week, though i still think it's possible that it's somehow avoided.
i don't remember, does tyrion even know the status of theon's cock? the way he said "it doesn't look like it" or whatever when told that theon had paid for his crimes, it made me think that the cock situation is unknown to him.
there's gonna be an inevitable Tyrion/Theon/Greyworm/Varys scene in which Tyrion brings up the the topic of cocks because he does that in every episode
WrenchNinja
Member
I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the smug Sansa looks
neurosisxeno
Member
Well we don't know the fallout in the books because we haven't seen it yet. But in the show it was a lot of inaction because Alliser Thorne just kind of commits a coup, and plays into a lot of the Brother's fears about the Wildlings--despite some of them having seen the White Walkers and how big of a threat they were. A lot of what is left at the wall are cowards and the injured. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly it was mostly those that were Rangers that betrayed Jon--as in the best fighters who had lost friends to wildlings despite the fact that Jon had as well--so I imagine a lot of the Builders and Stewards wouldn't be itching to take on the brothers who are chosen for their fighting prowess.
It was just a cheesy scene it made me laugh how silly it was
John Dunbar
correct about everything
so what are the odds that the "spoiler" sophie turner posted just meant that sansa is (a) lady stoneheart?
Or she was just fucking with a fanbase that's waaaaay to easy to fuck with. Seems like a Sophie Turner thing to do.
Interceptor
Banned
Almost.
The seven kingdoms will be united under the new targs, Jon and Dany, every subkingdom lead by a woman. Only kings landing will be fought over to take it back from mad cersei/the sparrows. Margery flees after Tommen is killed and rules High Garden.
United they ride against the night king in the final 3 episodes. Dany and Jon on their Dragons,Tyrion on a horse followed by the 7 Queens.
I think Kit Harrington kind of sums up my thoughts on Sansa's last scene here, around the 8 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B93k4uhpf7g
Kit says it's horrible moment to see your hero go too far. He says there's a bit of a "monster" in Jon, and the scene of him pummeling Ramsay without any empathy should be unsettling. I totally agree, and that scene worked as intended imo.
But then without a hint of self-reflection, they go on to talk about how powerful it is to have Sansa smirking as she feeds a guy to dogs. So is over-the-top violence committed by heroes supposed to be unsettling or awesome? Make up your minds, goddamn!
Kit says it's horrible moment to see your hero go too far. He says there's a bit of a "monster" in Jon, and the scene of him pummeling Ramsay without any empathy should be unsettling. I totally agree, and that scene worked as intended imo.
But then without a hint of self-reflection, they go on to talk about how powerful it is to have Sansa smirking as she feeds a guy to dogs. So is over-the-top violence committed by heroes supposed to be unsettling or awesome? Make up your minds, goddamn!
But then without a hint of self-reflection, they go on to talk about how powerful it is to have Sansa smirking as she feeds a guy to dogs. So is over-the-top violence committed by heroes supposed to be unsettling or awesome? Make up your minds, goddamn!
I think you get a bit of a pass when the guy you're killing has brutally tortured and raped you for several months.
Tyrion hasn't been able to be with a woman since he killed Shae.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
regardless of what someone did, i don't think you can tie someone up and feed them to the dogs and still be considered a good guy.
Thought the most important line of the ep was Jon saying he wanted to bury Rickon in the crypt. Makes me think we'll finally learn his true ancestry next ep - maybe Rickon died for something after all.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is the significance of the crypt? Why will going down there shed light on the ancestry?
I think he's asking how putting Rickon down there leads to that sort of knowledge.
The only signifigance to the crypt regarding Jon's parentage we've seen was the cryptic LF / Sansa scene last season.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
unless ned stark wrote a secret confession and hid it in the crypt, what does going down there have to do with jon's legitimacy?
Jon is still a bastard regardless if he's half Targ/Stark or half Stark/RandomWench. He doesn't go over Dany in any way, bastards only ever mean anything if they're the sole survivor in a bloodline. Even a remote relations like Robert Baratheon would have gone before a bastard in the Targ bloodline through regular inheritance.
I actually Believe that Dany will come to Westeros and take the kingdom, but she will acknowledge Jons rightful claim to the throne and let him have it, hence no power struggle in the North, and she can return to the free cities and keep them free.
If it is true that is.
Also, if it is true, why the fuck didn't Ned say anything to Cat at least... treated him like dirt thanks to that.
If it is true that is.
Also, if it is true, why the fuck didn't Ned say anything to Cat at least... treated him like dirt thanks to that.
wesleyshark
Banned
When it's in retaliation for something as abhorrent as rape, I say you can.
SporeCrawler
Member
King Gendry first of his name
John Dunbar
correct about everything
if jon snow actually manages to convince people that he is the son of rhaegar, i don't see why it can't also be established that rhaegar and lyanna were married.
but anyway, i hope the whole r+l=j thing goes somewhere totally unexpected and not this magic blood bullshit.
even in the context of the show alone, that is a pretty messed up opinion you have there.
Bots are better than you
Banned
Unless Rhaegar, if R+L=J is a true thing, had him acknowledged as his child via an official document ... it's reaching, but possible. Maybe that paper could be hidden in the crypt.
Though, going by my book memory, there still should be a person happily alive knowing the truth, Howland Reed. If he happens to know the truth in the show, too, i wonder why he's not finally going to do something.
Well, this episode was about as blatant as it gets in that Jon is a bit of a dope and Sansa is/should be the one making tactical decisions. She rules over Winterfell. if I were to guess, Jon moves on. Probably to go after Bran. It's about time to bring him back into the mix, reunite Jon with his uncle, and Jon's story arc is a lot more intertwined with white walkers than shoring up the North/playing politics. The Onion Knight goes with him, but I'm not certain about the red woman. Looks like Jon's two advisers are about to have a bit of a confrontation.
Is it though? When even a minor offence like deserting from the Night Watch gets you beheaded?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I don't see how Sansa is a tactical genius here. All she did was accept Littlefinger's offer and then not tell Jon about it...?
Everything else about the plan was legit. Only fuck up was Jon giving into anger and storming them when Rickon died. Which Sansa did warn him about...I'll give her that.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
regardless of context, giving people a quick death vs. torturing them to death has always been a pretty safe line to draw between "products of their time/environment" and genuine monsters.
She went all Lord of the Rings to save the day. She correctly predicted that Ramsay would try to lure Jon into a trap and Jon ate it up with a soup ladle anyway. She even threw in a "Rickon's dead no matter what" for good measure.
Jon getting all dramatic about Rickon was funny. How does he even know that it was him and not a random peasant? Didn't they last see each other when Rickon was like a preteen? Yet he recognized him from across a field.
I would say that, even today, if a person is raped and abused for a long period of time, people would understand if he/she did something like Sansa did.
Would it be objectively wrong? Yes. Moral from the abused person PoV? Dunno.
The Winterfell battle reminded me of two particular battles that each opened their respective movies: the beach assault for 300: Rise of an Empire and the D-Day beachfront from Saving Private Ryan. Both great action sequences for their own reasons and I think it's pretty impressive a television show can hold its ground against them.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Saving Private Ryan is light years ahead of both of those in terms of battle sequences but this was definitely movie quality.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
just because it is understandable doesn't mean that the person committing the act has not been transformed into something terrible. sansa just smiled after feeding someone to dogs and somehow she is not completely bonkers?
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