Transformed to something terrible I don't agree on. She might be the most loving person in the world now when she was freed from Ramsey (of course this won't happen since it is a show and all).
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Transformed to something terrible I don't agree on. She might be the most loving person in the world now when she was freed from Ramsey (of course this won't happen since it is a show and all).
toddhunter
Member
Poor Rickon
Moff
Member
I think he has a point, Littlefinger will probably reveal to Jon who he is when they bury Rickon in the crypt. We will also get the second Tower of Joy segment in the next episode.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
i actually agree that littlefinger is the best bet at the moment to reveal that info. it seemed like he was already laying down hints when he was with sansa down there.
ToyMachine228
Member
I hate that D&D actually got people to believe this. The problem with it is that it isn't consistent with Jon's maturing and resurrection. D&D clearly watered down Jon's character this season in order to prop up Sansa, because they know they fucked her story up last season. So this season they overcompensated by making Jon, one of the story's primary "heroes" look weak in every way they could. So they could contrast him with a new and improved Sansa. It's forced, bad writing.
I absolutely concur that Sansa needed to progress. It should have begun last season. But I don't like the way the writers have turned Sansa into a flawless badass in a single stroke and made Jon wishy-washy and seemingly unwise in the process. it's as if he learned nothing over the course of his journey from bastard to squire to Lord Commander, fighting the White Walker's, allying with the Wildlings and being resurrected.
I think it delineates the differences between them nicely. Jon's not cut out to be a politician, as they've shown time and time again. He's not much for foresight. Sansa is, even if you feel like her empowerment has been abrupt, they've been building that road from season one. Why else put her beside Joffrey, Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Ramsay?
The GIRL POWER aspect of this season is so hammy and forced that I think it does more of a disservice to women than anything else.
The North is probably ready to declare Jon the new King in the North until Littlefinger drops the Lyanna bomb in order to put Sansa ahead of him.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
she could at least try. i mean, she didn't seem to think it would work on jon snow, either.
Yeah. But I do wish they had a scene were she at least tries to resurrect Rickon and it doesn't work. Showing that Jon is a special case for whatever reason and to stop viewers from going "but but why doesn't she rez him/her like she did Jon!" every time someone dies.
In the context of the show, rape isn't even illegal, there's no such thing as rape in the bedchamber between man and wife. It's the wife's duty.
I know where you're coming from, but in the context of the show, a lot of things are sound and reasonable that wouldn't otherwise be the case in real life.
I'm a little hazy....do we know where Varys is heading, or is it just an educated guess in predicting Dorne?
If Littlefinger knows about Rhaegar and Lyanna....then you would imagine Varys knows too, or it would at least be understandable. What if he sees Jon's heritage as a potential thread to pull at in gaining Dany more support?
There has to be a go between to link Jon and Dany, something to set the foundation of a potential (platonic) relationship, and I don't see Littlefinger championing a unification of Targaryeans. Dany is far too powerful an opponent; Littlefinger's scheming seems to just rely on the status quo of Houses in Westeros...but the rule book is about to be ripped up. I know he'd be the King of the Ashes if I meant burning down the kingdom, but not even he can predict or manipulate Dany, at least not in the long term.
I'm really interested in the dynamic R+L=J could bring to Jon and Dany. I doubt Dany will rock up at Wintefell and Jon is all "Yo Aunty D, can I borrow some dragons to melt ice people?".
If Littlefinger knows about Rhaegar and Lyanna....then you would imagine Varys knows too, or it would at least be understandable. What if he sees Jon's heritage as a potential thread to pull at in gaining Dany more support?
There has to be a go between to link Jon and Dany, something to set the foundation of a potential (platonic) relationship, and I don't see Littlefinger championing a unification of Targaryeans. Dany is far too powerful an opponent; Littlefinger's scheming seems to just rely on the status quo of Houses in Westeros...but the rule book is about to be ripped up. I know he'd be the King of the Ashes if I meant burning down the kingdom, but not even he can predict or manipulate Dany, at least not in the long term.
I'm really interested in the dynamic R+L=J could bring to Jon and Dany. I doubt Dany will rock up at Wintefell and Jon is all "Yo Aunty D, can I borrow some dragons to melt ice people?".
John Dunbar
correct about everything
but i am not coming into this from the point of view of reality. nothing in the universe of a song of ice and fire (show or book) has made it seem that "good guys" would feed defenseless people to the dogs, and sansa is certainly not an example.
ToyMachine228
Member
Exactly. Sansa's empowerment started in Season 4, but in Season 5 they completely threw it in the trash in order to victimize her again. Instead of going down the path they took in Season 5, she should have been part of the great northern conspiracy from within Winterfell which would kick into full effect when Jon and the Wildlings showed up this season. It would have required some other events to be changed slightly but everything else could have still played out very similar and it would have been a much more natural progression for Sansa. When Littlefinger took her there he told her to get revenge. She should have used her newfound charm and wit to trick Ramsay into trusting her and then orchestrated anarchy from within for House Bolton that sets off right when the battle is about to begin. And she still could have written Littlefinger to get the Vale's help. Putting her by Jon's side and having her constantly be right about everything, at the expense of Jon's character from a writing standpoint, was forced.
I didn't mean to suggest they're all equally as good as each other, they're examples of quality action filming is all. I was meaning that when watching tonight's episode, it stood out to me that they could hit some of the same beats battles I enjoyed from movies did and those were the two. I'd probably put the Omaha landing above the Winterfell battle as well, but I wouldn't say it's light years ahead.
wesleyshark
Banned
Rape is a horrible thing and no one should pity what happens to the person who committed the deed. Sansa was entirely justified.
She'd get 62 votes. (But they'd be the best votes.)
John Dunbar
correct about everything
only one deserving of pity is sansa, because she lost both her body and her mind to ramsay.
Haven't noticed it. How? There was a scene where she says she could "literally feel what he had done to her" but I thought she was referring to rape, not pregnancy.
That'd be kind of... ineffective.
"Hey, you, you can't be King of the North because you're not a Stark. You're the last son of the last Dragon.... which would make you first in-line to the Iron Throne and the ruler of all of Westeros, including the North. Shit...."
Nailed it with this. So many, especially in this thread, are so anxious to complain and try and continue to feel "superior" that they just ignore very basic and obvious things.
bitbydeath
Member
Iwan is such a great actor.
Might have to go watch Misfits again now.
Highly recommended if you want to see a completely different side to him.
Might have to go watch Misfits again now.
Highly recommended if you want to see a completely different side to him.
wesleyshark
Banned
Exactly. Which is why I'm saying she's justified in watching Ramsay get what was rightfully coming to him, and finding satisfaction in it.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
and that's the problem. she is now a person who finds satisfaction in feeding people to the dogs.
wesleyshark
Banned
In feeding the person who raped her to the dogs*
WrenchNinja
Member
What is the basic and obvious thing here? That she doesnt trust him because reasons? That she didn't know that the Vale would come or not? Why keep that from the council? Or is it some tinfoil theory about Sansa wanting to kill them all off? That Jon was going to lose his shit because apparently he has this new character skill where he'll some how lose a battle with unspent Vale forces?
The whole scenario is entirely contrived. This is not a "durr books are better" thing.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Great episode. Comfortably the best of this season. I thought the battle was really well done overall. Getting Miguel Sapochnik on board again was definitely worth it. The scene where Jon was trying to escape the crush was especially effective - I felt really claustrophobic watching it.
The outcome was predictable but this show has had its fair share of unpredictable moments. I like Iwan but Ramsay was getting a bit boring. Sansa's smirk was really great.
It also had one of my favourite shots of the entire show. I was surprised to hear they didn't use CGI for it.
The outcome was predictable but this show has had its fair share of unpredictable moments. I like Iwan but Ramsay was getting a bit boring. Sansa's smirk was really great.
It also had one of my favourite shots of the entire show. I was surprised to hear they didn't use CGI for it.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
something like that probably kicked it off for ramsay.
Pfft, Dany's got it easy.
+Welps, they blew their entire CGI budget this episode. I expect next week to be nothing but extreme close ups and reused miniatures. Dragons burning ships during a fiery siege, am I watching a TV show? It's amusing to note that many criticized the show in the early seasons for cutting corners on big battles and events, but now they gave us scenes with a scope that is completely untouched by other television programs.
+The "Battle of Fire" sure was over quickly, but I can't say I was disappointed by it at all. We are finally at the tail end of Dany's Mereen adventures. I like that while Dany has changed her perspective and ambitions, she is still must question whether or not it is a path she is willing to take and if it will bear fruit or simply be an echo of her father's reign.
+Yara and Theon managed to put Littlefinger's teleporter tech to shame with their invention of rocket-powered ships. It's so surreal to see Yara, Dany, Theon, and Tyrion all sharing the same stage, but that's also what's exciting about the show. You see characters interact in unpredictable ways. Dany's JRPG party is overflowing.
+The battle scene has received a lot of praise, but a scene that stood out for me was the pre-battle planning. You can really see the desperation on Jon's behalf and the tension between him and Sansa. I really didn't expect to see such a strife between two Starks, but it's an interesting development. Both characters have been through a tremendous amount, and have changed deeply over time, but their experiences are on completely opposite sides of the spectrum.
+DAVOS. Can this man do wrong? The answer is no.
+The actual Battle of the Bastards far exceeded my expectations. Although it seemed less ambitious than the siege of Blackwater Bay or the battle on the wall on paper, it turned out to be the most intense and gruesome of them all. Yes, Rickon needed to zigzag, and yes Jon is a big dumb dumb-dumb for charging out there by himself, but the scene was taut and visually engaging. Jon getting trampled was gut-wrenching and was an effective way to show the overwhelming odds of the battle. Ramsay GETTING GOT was also immensely satisfying, though I was hoping he would have a breakdown or show his true cowardly colors instead of smirking till the end. I really wish Littlefinger had some sort of Gandalf speech though.
I can't really complain about this episode at all. I've seen some people saying the dynamics of the Winterfell battle was too binary (obvious good guys vs. obvious bad guys), but I thought the fact that they were basically saved by a very ambiguous figure was an interesting twist on the concept and while the Blackwater and wall battle were pretty finite, I feel this opens up far more doors than it closes. Next episode looks to tone down the crazy gigantic battles, but there are so many scenes I'm anticipating.
+Welps, they blew their entire CGI budget this episode. I expect next week to be nothing but extreme close ups and reused miniatures. Dragons burning ships during a fiery siege, am I watching a TV show? It's amusing to note that many criticized the show in the early seasons for cutting corners on big battles and events, but now they gave us scenes with a scope that is completely untouched by other television programs.
+The "Battle of Fire" sure was over quickly, but I can't say I was disappointed by it at all. We are finally at the tail end of Dany's Mereen adventures. I like that while Dany has changed her perspective and ambitions, she is still must question whether or not it is a path she is willing to take and if it will bear fruit or simply be an echo of her father's reign.
+Yara and Theon managed to put Littlefinger's teleporter tech to shame with their invention of rocket-powered ships. It's so surreal to see Yara, Dany, Theon, and Tyrion all sharing the same stage, but that's also what's exciting about the show. You see characters interact in unpredictable ways. Dany's JRPG party is overflowing.
+The battle scene has received a lot of praise, but a scene that stood out for me was the pre-battle planning. You can really see the desperation on Jon's behalf and the tension between him and Sansa. I really didn't expect to see such a strife between two Starks, but it's an interesting development. Both characters have been through a tremendous amount, and have changed deeply over time, but their experiences are on completely opposite sides of the spectrum.
+DAVOS. Can this man do wrong? The answer is no.
+The actual Battle of the Bastards far exceeded my expectations. Although it seemed less ambitious than the siege of Blackwater Bay or the battle on the wall on paper, it turned out to be the most intense and gruesome of them all. Yes, Rickon needed to zigzag, and yes Jon is a big dumb dumb-dumb for charging out there by himself, but the scene was taut and visually engaging. Jon getting trampled was gut-wrenching and was an effective way to show the overwhelming odds of the battle. Ramsay GETTING GOT was also immensely satisfying, though I was hoping he would have a breakdown or show his true cowardly colors instead of smirking till the end. I really wish Littlefinger had some sort of Gandalf speech though.
I can't really complain about this episode at all. I've seen some people saying the dynamics of the Winterfell battle was too binary (obvious good guys vs. obvious bad guys), but I thought the fact that they were basically saved by a very ambiguous figure was an interesting twist on the concept and while the Blackwater and wall battle were pretty finite, I feel this opens up far more doors than it closes. Next episode looks to tone down the crazy gigantic battles, but there are so many scenes I'm anticipating.
Raped, demeaned, emotionally abused and yes in fact: dehumanized her.
So yes, she fed him to the dogs. And good on her.
They were five chapters in a book that didn't feature Jon, Tyrion, or Dany. It was a textbook example of plot sprawl, AND it wasn't interesting.
Well, the Night's King is the obvious one.
wesleyshark
Banned
John Dunbar
correct about everything
dany.
No, that's not it.
I've enjoyed this season a lot but even I had to call out how silly it was for Arya to completely forget her training and go out publicly smelling the flowers in the episode where she got shanked. Sometimes a character will just lose all sense of themselves just so that we can get a shocking moment.
This episode was fine, though. Even if it was telegraphed it was well executed.
it was interesting to me, except darkstar fuck that guy
oh right, them. Silly me, I forgot all about it
hipsterpants
Member
John's the reluctant hero that doesn't want to do shit but keeps getting dragged in anyway
It would be a shock if he doesn't end up on the iron throne tbh
It would be a shock if he doesn't end up on the iron throne tbh
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I'm really disappointed with the way they handled it. I would have loved for Jon to hold back and show his strength as a leader, then have his army holding but on tenuous footing when the armies of the Vale showed up. Having them completely fucked and rescued at the last second is too much of a trope.
Still, fuck me running that was some kind of battle.
wesleyshark
Banned
Dany. Euron. White Walkers. Whomever survives next week in KL and Riverrun lol.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Night's King ain't no villain, he's the hero that Westeros deserve.
Are we talking about her being a bad actor or is this just sarcasm?
wesleyshark
Banned
Her acting is fine. I like her character (save for how much time she spends doing nothing in Mereen in both the show and in the books).
But she's absolutely a villain.
The Whitewalkers
Bummed about Ramsay's death. From the latest chapter of the upcoming book sounds like George wants to make Euron the next Ramsay, but show Euron has ruined him for me. Really lame.
Dany: Threatened to crucify people, incinerated others alive
Sansa: Fed a man to dogs
Jon: BFFs with woman who burns children
Dem heroes.
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