There may be something to Sansa not caring about or perhaps even wanting the death of as many of Jon's men as possible. Remember how she continues repeating some variation of "no one can protect me", so she's probably thinking the only way she can be safe is by being in a position of power herself. That's not the sister of a Lord or one's niece, she wants her own lands and armies loyal to her. However, I believe the main reason she didn't tell Jon is because she simply didn't know if Littlefinger's army would show up on time, or at all. There's really nothing different Jon could have done, other than perhaps be a bit more conservative, but it's not like Sansa didn't warn him not to charge in like an idiot.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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General rule for interpreting the show: If you think you have parsed characters' motivations in some very well-thought-out way to uncover some sort of secret plan or conspiracy that was never detailed explicitly in dialogue, you're probably wrong. It happened way back in the day with Talisa, it happened earlier in this season with the that's-not-Arya theories, and now we're doing it again with Sansa. D&D just aren't writing to be analyzed that closely. You're thinking about it more than they are.
Sansa had no plan. Just a desperate dice roll that worked at the last minute. She didn't tell Jon first and foremost because it would have spoiled the writers' game, which relied on viewers forgetting the letter-writing scene from a few episodes back, or failing to have ever put together who she was even writing to, which is honestly how most viewers probably experienced the scene. If you asked the writers, they'd probably explain it away by saying that she knew convincing Jon to wait was futile, or that she was too unsure they were coming to risk Jon's battle plans on a hope, but if you're expecting some reveal that she's actually a master schemer removing all impediments to her power, you're probably going to be disappointed.
WrenchNinja
Member
If he didn't move forward he'd be hit by the rain of arrows. The main mistake Jon made was going for Rickon at all.
Yoda
Member
I imagine if Cersei think's she is going to die, she'll make sure the High Sparrow goes with her.
SpaceHorror
Member
Never said Sansa's plan was smart.
Or maybe I'm putting it all on her and it was Littlefinger who chose to wait. It would certainly benefit him for Jon's troops to be depeleted.
Or maybe I'm just completely wrong and he showed up right on time. It's not as dramatically interesting, but again, D&D.
I mean, it's not like Jon will kill himself after the war is over because he's too broken and miserable to go on. I can't imagine that. Eventually he would probably learn to like life again. He will probably be glad that he still exists. He seemed happy when he got reunited with Sansa.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yup.
The point of Ramsay's death was to erase him, as Sansa said, his name and his house will both disappear, he won't even have a burial or an execution, he'll be dog droppings.
It wasn't only about violence, it was about him being brought down from his arrogance, because he swore his starving dogs wouldn't attack him. Sansa wanted to smack some reality into him. As I expected he even smiled when Jon punched him, merely torturing him wasn't going to do it for Sansa, she knew him.
Nope, he makes helpless incest-bred babies that would have been killed by Craster anyway into immortal ice gods. The Night King is the hero of the story.
RichiRamjag
Member
He outright said he didn't want to be brought back again. Apparently, it wasn't a grand enough experience for him to want to relive it. What he may or may not feel years down the road is guesswork. We know now that he doesn't want to go through it again.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Doesn't Sam tell Jon about Bran in th show? It's been awhile so I could be misremembering. Of course they could just assume that since Bran was going north of the Wall, he's fucked.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
With the Boltons gone, I wonder who gets the Dreadfort?
Didn't Jon save Bran himself back in season 4 (or 3)? I might be misremembering, though.
Really surprised to read that trampling and suffocation scene was improvved by the director when the scripted scene fell through due to rain. That was probably my favorite part of the whole thing.
Man, I would probably tear the thing down. Gotta erase those Boltons from history. You have plenty of rewards to hand out between Karhold and Last Hearth and Deepwood Motte to reward everyone who fought for you. Disinherit Glover for failing to answer the call and give his lands over to Lady Mormont, give Last Hearth to Tormund to serve as the castle for all the wildling lands in the New Gift, give Karhold to Davos. No one needs the Dreadfort.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I think he did, but maybe didn't realize it or something. I'm not 100% sure myself.
Yeah, read that line, just makes me more impressed at Miguel Sapochnik's abilities at directing.
Yep that happened because I remember it making me feel weird. Strange that Jon's made no mention of it.
It's annoying when articles mislead you with their titles. The actual quote from Turner is "I think she believes she has the upper hand. ".
I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa dies the next episode.
Yeah very selfish and assholish of him to think everyone feels the same way. "I don't want to live, so no one should want to live."
Rand0m TAG
Member
he indirectly saved him. bran saw Jon, but kept his distance. he didnt want Jon to bring him back with him. Something about he wouldnt understand his destiny
r/Dreadfort is in disarray after this episode.
The past two episodes have had some of the best "roll up outta nowhere" scenes in the show with Dany and Yara arriving in Mereen. Roose at the Red Wedding is still the king.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That's what I mean.
I don't know why she didn't tell him. Pride I suppose, since she had been offered a large force and declined it thinking that she could woo Northern houses to her cause with her name alone. She couldn't be sure LF had gotten the raven or that he was coming anyway.
This is pretty much my exact opinion on the subject. Sansa's grand contribution to the war effort was desperately asking Littlefinger for help even though she had sent Littlefinger away previously. She's not a strategist and she's not playing the "game" yet. Hopefully that changes very soon with how she handles the new power structure in Winterfell but even that isn't a given.
Littlefinger slipping the entire host of the Vale as far North as Winterfell without even one raven or rider getting through to warn Ramsay is a damn fine feat in its own right too.
Preview thought:
The stuff with Frey and Jaime sure looks like they're setting up RW 2.0, but I can't figure out how the hell they could get there in a single episode. In the books it's implied that the Brotherhood and Blackfish' men will carry it out, but the show Brotherhood has shown no interest in seeking revenge against the Freys, and the only way I could see getting them there is if they rez Blackfish, and he takes control, but that seems like way too much to happen in one episode. Other option I've heard is Arya having a role in it, but that would require her landing in Westeros, finding out Frey is having a party, getting there, devising a plan, and carrying it out in one episode. I would think that they planning it more for next season, but then why the feast scene now?
pr0cs
Member
Story elements and hand -wringing aside, I really thought the fight sequence was really well done for a TV show. Felt a bit like return of the King with a lot more sensibility as to the horror and chaos of war. Rain or otherwise I would have imagined that being an extra for those shoots would have been fun as hell
Well apparently the finale is going to be the longest episode in the whole series.
Not by that long, surely.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Given that Sansa told Ramsay she's going Damnatio memoriae on his ass, I'm assuming she'll have it torn down then salt the earth around it.
Jaime is also there, so I don't think we will get a RW 2.0. I read some speculation that Frey's sons might off him, which would be pretty unsatisfactory in my eyes. I don't think that scene will be much and it will probably focus on Jaime and not Frey
Doesn't need to be long, just contrived, and the show has that down.
I still want Stannis back
He should be the Night's king
New rule: If a character* was not featured in the last episode, it means they can be anywhere in the world in the next one.
*Unless it's Sam, who will never get to Oldtown
I could see that. The scene may just be Jaime feeling like shit plus some teasing for the season 7 Frey plot. It would honestly feel kind of like cheap pandering to lose Frey one episode after Ramsay finally got his.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
House Giantsbane!
RichiRamjag
Member
It's also not a trick someone performs at the circus for a copper. This is honestly a pointless discussion.
It's basically saying why didn't jon bring back X character? Why doesn't he get Meli to bring back his whole army? Why don't they go dig up ned and see what can be done for him while they're at it?
If the Freys killed Jaime and Cersei lost again to the High Sparrow, that would be enough for her to burn Kings Landing to the ground.
they are moving all pieces at high speed now, to get to the WW part of the story and the endgame. I see frey dying next episode, and next year it will be all WW all the time, and dany coming to westeros.
All other plots will be resolved already, high sparrow, lannisters and freys.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
The writers are idiots.
Sansa wanting Jon to die is the only reason for her not to tell him. Now, I don't think the writers are that clever. They wanted their battle and tension and they just made Sansa look like and idiot to do it.
yeah she really fucked Jon over but we aren't supposed to take it that way
75 minutes per my DVR, is that the longest? Thought they had one pushing 90, or maybe another show.
Sectorseven
Member
Why do people think the Frey's will die next week? Who will kill them? The Starks/Vale army are a fair distance away to suddenly be that far south, aren't they?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
they have littlefingers teleporter now
Moff
Member
Jon realized D&D were killing dire wolves off because they need the sfx budget for dragons so he did not want to put Ghost in that kind of danger
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