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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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wesleyshark
Banned
You're the real mvpMade some gifs:
Moff
Member
since we all know that victarion is looking to marry dany I wonder if this setup we saw today is kind of reflecting that
yara replaces victarion in the show and was introduced as a lesbian (or bi) last episode. maybe she actually hooks up with dany like victarion will (or is trying to) in the books?
yara replaces victarion in the show and was introduced as a lesbian (or bi) last episode. maybe she actually hooks up with dany like victarion will (or is trying to) in the books?
Not nearly as much though. He also has the excuse of being a teenager in the books.
I wonder if D&D will address this next season or if they just like their idiot Jesus warrior the way he is.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
personally i don't think he has the excuse of being a teenager in the books, either. it feels like there is a tacit understanding between martin and the reader that he fucked up with the ages and the main characters are actually older. or that "being x years old" in westeros is not really the same as in reality.
and nothing he has done on the show is as stupid as locking up his presentient wolf because of a fucking pig.
Saint Gregory
Member
Doesn't hurt to try though, just saying.
As far as they know he was the last male Stark so it seems kind of weird to not even consider it, even if the costs are an unknown.
blazenumb1
Member
Can someone explain to me what exactly Sansa has accomplished? She lied for Joffrey in S1 and got her direwolf killed, lied for littlefinger at the Vale, went back to Winterfell and married Ramsay and without a timely save by Theon and Brienne would have died at Winterfell.
As far as last nights episode is concerned it really seems like if she would have told Jon at any point(especially during their argument right before the battle when she said they didn't have enough men) that she wanted to wait longer because she wrote to the Knights of the Vale at lot of lives could have been saved.
I'm not saying she is a bad character but I have trouble getting behind her, especially with how she treats Jon.
As far as last nights episode is concerned it really seems like if she would have told Jon at any point(especially during their argument right before the battle when she said they didn't have enough men) that she wanted to wait longer because she wrote to the Knights of the Vale at lot of lives could have been saved.
I'm not saying she is a bad character but I have trouble getting behind her, especially with how she treats Jon.
Something my wife and I noticed last night is how jarring it was that Jon is completely soaked and covered in blood and dirt at the end of the battle, and then like a minute later he's all cleaned up looking like he did pre-battle. Kind of surprised the showrunners allowed that incongruity.
I think even she wasn't completely sure if Littlefinger would show up or not, so she didn't want to screw up Jon's meager battle plans with things that might not happen.
I think even she wasn't completely sure if Littlefinger would show up or not, so she didn't want to screw up Jon's meager battle plans with things that might not happen.
Made some gifs:
I think this is the best single take in the history of thrones. You felt like you were there, and it was tense as fuck.
Made some gifs:
Amazing. That shot of Jon was bloody fantastic. As was the one where he was stood holding his ground. It was engaging enough to forgive some of the silly shite really. The dragon CGI has been great this season too - probably explains Ghost's absence. Although I was thinking about Ghost and considering the throwaway deaths of Shaggydog and Summer I'm really glad he missed out on the bastard battle.
metalslimer
Member
The choreography was incredible. It was one of the best depictions of battle I've seen in anything.
SpaceHorror
Member
She was was worried Jon would fall into Ramsay's trap because he refused to listen to her about how he is. If she gave Jon the Knight's of the Vale before the battle started he may have lead them into the trap, as well.
So she waited for Ramsay's counter trap of luring Jon out with Rickon to look as if it was going to succeed, when Ramsay's force were completely engaged in finishing off Jon, to have the Vale rush in and crush Ramsay.
Yeah, it was pretty cold blooded, but it worked; Winterfell was liberated, and Ramsay is dead. Hopefully, the ramifications will lead to some good drama.
metalslimer
Member
Is this the official explanation of it? I didn't watch any of the post stuff and was sort of confused by Sansa's decision
I just assumed she wasn't counting on Littlefinger lifting a finger. It was a last ditch effort she really didn't want to do. With him being untrustworthy and all.
Otherwise, it does seem like she ruined their chances of winning because of a personal grudge and then changed her mind without telling anyone.
Which got a bunch of people killed.
Otherwise, it does seem like she ruined their chances of winning because of a personal grudge and then changed her mind without telling anyone.
Which got a bunch of people killed.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Preview:
White Raven happening?
Will KL come to know that a Stark rules the North again?
Will KL come to know that a Stark rules the North again?
I agree about the ages but charging out by himself to almost certain death like he did was much worse than that thing with Borroq's boar. It is odd that he'll seem like a pragmatic individual one moment and then just drops the ball.
ChaosZeroX
Banned
Made some gifs:
Absolutely fantastic and my favorite moment in show history besides Jon killing the WW last season. I fucking loved this.
So what is Littlefingers end game here then?
He can't have a claim to the Stark throne even by marriage with Sansa since Bran is alive.
Also, if there is intrigues between Sansa and Jon I would sigh so hard that Ned Stark will walk again and skull fuck Ramseys corpse and hang himself from the top of Fist of Men.
He can't have a claim to the Stark throne even by marriage with Sansa since Bran is alive.
Also, if there is intrigues between Sansa and Jon I would sigh so hard that Ned Stark will walk again and skull fuck Ramseys corpse and hang himself from the top of Fist of Men.
If Sansa told Jon about Littlefinger's army the battle could've played out the exact same way but with better timing. Jon could've lead his army in for Ramsay to take the bait, then Littlefinger rocks up once they're fully engaged. You know. Tactics.
Other thoughts: those bodies piled up super quick, not sure how that would work exactly. The dragons suddenly being under Daenerys' control was a bit jarring, would've liked to have seen some sort of on-screen development there.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Yeah, they telegraphed the Vale showing up at the end as they went to that well yet again. Rickon running in a straight line was dumb as hell.
It was.
It was.
Why? Does he not like Rickon?
Moff
Member
no one knows about bran, Sansa will be queen in the north, and if he marries her he controls the vale and the north which is a huge territory and quite a step into the direction to become king of westeros, which is actually what I think his endgame is
Time has obviously passed. They'd removed all the flayed man banners, the giant's corpse had been removed, Ramsay had been tied up. it wouldn't have been hard for him to splash water on his face in that time.
Same as it ever was, to attain as much power as possible. He's not an idiot, he knows he doesn't have a famous name nor is he a great warrior/leader that commands the respect of men. The only way he will gain power is via the support of great names or respected warriors. He's just got that with Sansa and Jon. Of course, one of these days they are going to realize this is the man who's essentially responsible for all their misery, and feed him to the dogs.
blazenumb1
Member
Anyone else feel like the end scene with Ramsay and dogs slowly coming out was very similar to how Scar dies in the Lion King?
Great scene, just kept thinking that the whole time.
Great scene, just kept thinking that the whole time.
Agreed. It felt like it had the budget of a major blockbuster film.
SpaceHorror
Member
Yeah, but would he have done that? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying Sansa's decision was perfect, just that I believe that was her rationale. She didn't trust Jon to win the battle because she felt he was underestimating Ramsay.
And as far as this being the official explaination, I don't know. It's the conclusion I reached going by what they gave us in the episode last night. Hopefully we'll find out the truth of it next week.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
He likes Rickon, but he doesn't want people brought back. He doesn't want to be brought back himself a second time if possible.
Also Jon knows Bran is alive. Sam told him.
I'm definitely under the impression that LF happened upon the camp, picked up Sansa, and showed up as fast as he could. I don't see how anyone could look at what happened in the context of everything that came before and think that Sansa was a tactician with a plan to draw Ramsay's forces in and then crush them. Like someone else said, they could have implemented that plan with much better timing if it had actually been a plan at all.
Why doesn't he want people brought back? Just because Jon is depressed and emo and wants to not exist anymore doesn't mean everyone would feel the same. I think Rickon would probably prefer to exist.
That's like if someone was suicidal thought that it was fine if a family member killed themselves. That doesn't necessarily follow.
hipsterpants
Member
D&D fucked up her character development in S5, so they had to suddenly make her into a badass this season rather than the slower development we're seeing in the books.
For all we know, the Lord of Light would agree to bring his whole army back if asked. Who knows?
Sansa's actions are much easier to explain by just thinking about what the writers wanted.
They wanted a scene where Sansa tells Littlefinger to fuck off, and reject his apology and his offer of help. This is because Sansa has to be a ~~~***badass***~~~ who don't need no help. Then, they wanted a scene where the battle appears lost, but is ultimately won because of a surprise attack.
To make these scenes happen, the characters have to be behave in irrational and contradictory ways. I think Arya's stabbing shows it's incredibly unlikely that there's anything more to it.
They wanted a scene where Sansa tells Littlefinger to fuck off, and reject his apology and his offer of help. This is because Sansa has to be a ~~~***badass***~~~ who don't need no help. Then, they wanted a scene where the battle appears lost, but is ultimately won because of a surprise attack.
To make these scenes happen, the characters have to be behave in irrational and contradictory ways. I think Arya's stabbing shows it's incredibly unlikely that there's anything more to it.
SpaceHorror
Member
Do you really need to be a master tactician to know Ramsay likely had a trap planned? The conversation Sansa and Jon had on the eve of the battle spelled out that she knew he was leading his small force into a trap. She tried to tell him this, but he stubbornly refused to listen. And maybe I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall a shot of Sansa up on on a hill watching the battle and when it looked like it was sure Ramsay would win, the Knight's of the Vale showed up.
But maybe I'm giving D&D too much credit and it really was just them showing up in the nick of time to save the day.
RichiRamjag
Member
Who knows? I would not want to be brought back from the dead over and over again. I also wouldn't want some witch going over my family and attempting to do the same, especially without knowing what ill effects (if any) could occur. It honestly isn't up to him anyhow.
I don't think he stubbornly refused anything. Saying there will be a trap, but having no plans or solution isn't really all that helpful. That aside, he was never going to sit there and watch his brother die without trying to save him. It was silly on his part, but part of who he is.
I mean, we saw her with Drogon under her control a few episodes ago when she gave the big speech to the Dothraki. And again she got onto the pyramid because of riding Drogon.
It made sense to me that the other two were just following their brother more than anything.
Do you think there will be an ill effect for Jon worse than not existing?
I've seen that theory before, and sorry but it comes off as very trite and .. well.. bs.
There was no downside to her revealing to her brother that their uncle was ready to join with 4000ish mounted knights.
I thought the original reason was her doubts about LF and the price to pay given her suspicions about him, while her brother would have been all too eager to say yes, but given her quasi certainty they were going to lose, and that she wrote the letter anyway, her not telling Jon only brings one conclusion:
She wanted the wildling army to take massive losses (to weaken Jon), and if her brother happened to die in the process, oh well.
Unless the show can find a really good reasoning during the next episode, Sanda is basically turning into a minor vilain for the sake of revenge and power grab.
On Dany being a protagonist/antagonist. Pretty much everything in ASOIAF exists to serve a character arc. The whole Targaryen madness, including the mad king, exists for Dany's arc. By her own thoughts it is the only thing she fears. It's not going to be left on the table, it is the driving force for the rest of her arc, as she's now turned full fire and blood.
The Faith have armed and emerged as a dominant force in Westeros, the High Septon prays to the gods to show him their will while he tries to wade through the muck of the current court. An alternative would be welcome, but there's only Stannis, and he's a Red God follower. Good thing then that Aegon has landed. Cloth dragon, cheering crowd. The last king who fought the Faith militant was Maegor the Cruel. Benerro preaches to the massive slave population in Volantis, an army in waiting, that Dany is R'hllor's chosen one, come to lead them from darkness, he has room only for one saviour says Tyrion forebodingly.
Quentyn was all about driving Dorne from Dany to Aegon. Gerris is on his way home to tell Dorne of how the whore queen killed Quentyn and spat on Dorne by breaking his heart to go fuck a sellsword. The kingdom that Aegon couldn't conquer, that was brought peacefully into the fold by marriage.
Euron wants to marry Dany. Euron is basically Daario with an army, crown, ships and a dragon horn like the one Dany thinks about the dragonlords of old owning while she struggles to control Drogon.
GRRM released the details of the first dance of dragons before TWOW comes with the second. Details of how the first dragon queen became despised by the realm and got tossed out on her arse. And how the god like reverence the people had for Targs was shattered.
That's not to say Dany will turn evil, only that the question will be asked. That's why all this stuff is headed in the same direction, to bring Dany to the brink, to make her question herself. If she is another mad Targaryen, her father's daughter.
If the show does it or not will be interesting to see. Making Tommen a faithful product of the HS puts him in position to fill Aegon's role, but on the other hand what they've done with Yara and Theon doesn't suit.
The Faith have armed and emerged as a dominant force in Westeros, the High Septon prays to the gods to show him their will while he tries to wade through the muck of the current court. An alternative would be welcome, but there's only Stannis, and he's a Red God follower. Good thing then that Aegon has landed. Cloth dragon, cheering crowd. The last king who fought the Faith militant was Maegor the Cruel. Benerro preaches to the massive slave population in Volantis, an army in waiting, that Dany is R'hllor's chosen one, come to lead them from darkness, he has room only for one saviour says Tyrion forebodingly.
Quentyn was all about driving Dorne from Dany to Aegon. Gerris is on his way home to tell Dorne of how the whore queen killed Quentyn and spat on Dorne by breaking his heart to go fuck a sellsword. The kingdom that Aegon couldn't conquer, that was brought peacefully into the fold by marriage.
Euron wants to marry Dany. Euron is basically Daario with an army, crown, ships and a dragon horn like the one Dany thinks about the dragonlords of old owning while she struggles to control Drogon.
GRRM released the details of the first dance of dragons before TWOW comes with the second. Details of how the first dragon queen became despised by the realm and got tossed out on her arse. And how the god like reverence the people had for Targs was shattered.
That's not to say Dany will turn evil, only that the question will be asked. That's why all this stuff is headed in the same direction, to bring Dany to the brink, to make her question herself. If she is another mad Targaryen, her father's daughter.
If the show does it or not will be interesting to see. Making Tommen a faithful product of the HS puts him in position to fill Aegon's role, but on the other hand what they've done with Yara and Theon doesn't suit.
WrenchNinja
Member
Ramsays trap would not work if Jon had the number of mounted units available to him through the Vale. The Vale has completely sat out the war of the 5 kings and is as strong as the North combined. If that was Sansa's thought process, then she's an idiot since she wasted the lives of all those north men.
RichiRamjag
Member
Jon doesn't seem too happy about his return at all tbh. So yeah, maybe not everyone wants to be brought back from the dead by a witch. Tbh, this convo can go in circles all day.
Atraveller
Banned
A REAL HUMAN BEING
Cornballer
Member
Reviews:
- Onion A|V Club review
- Sepinwall
- Rolling Stone
- Wired
- Atlantic panel discussion
- Joanna Robinson on Sansa for Vanity Fair
- Salon
- NY Times
- Washington Post
- Deadline
- IGN
- WSJ
Interviews:
- MGoT: Gemma Whelan Breaks Down Yara’s Big Meeting
- MGoT: Sophie Turner Thinks Sansa Finally Has the Upper Hand
- MGoT: Iwan Rheon Knows Ramsay Is One Arrogant Bastard
- EW with Iwan Rheon
- EW with director Miguel Sapochnik
- EW with Sophie Turner
- D&D with a few thoughts on Dany w/ IGN
Videos:
- Anatomy of A Scene: The Battle of Winterfell (HBO) (~10 min behind-the-scenes)
- Inside the Episode #9
- New Generation (Whelan and Clarke on their meeting)
- Preview for the finale (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- Episode #9 Clip - Battle of the Bastards
- Inside the VFX from the battle scenes
- Ozzy Man's extended cut of Jon vs Ramsey
- Jon Snow in Battlefield (the long shot from the battle last night)
- Onion A|V Club review
- Sepinwall
- Rolling Stone
- Wired
- Atlantic panel discussion
- Joanna Robinson on Sansa for Vanity Fair
- Salon
- NY Times
- Washington Post
- Deadline
- IGN
- WSJ
Interviews:
- MGoT: Gemma Whelan Breaks Down Yara’s Big Meeting
- MGoT: Sophie Turner Thinks Sansa Finally Has the Upper Hand
- MGoT: Iwan Rheon Knows Ramsay Is One Arrogant Bastard
- EW with Iwan Rheon
- EW with director Miguel Sapochnik
- EW with Sophie Turner
- D&D with a few thoughts on Dany w/ IGN
Videos:
- Anatomy of A Scene: The Battle of Winterfell (HBO) (~10 min behind-the-scenes)
- Inside the Episode #9
- New Generation (Whelan and Clarke on their meeting)
- Preview for the finale (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- Episode #9 Clip - Battle of the Bastards
- Inside the VFX from the battle scenes
- Ozzy Man's extended cut of Jon vs Ramsey
- Jon Snow in Battlefield (the long shot from the battle last night)
Man this episode, this fucking episode. This is one of those "fuck the budget" moments were they throw all into one big pot of awesomeness.
One can argue that Jon wasn't smart to charge with his small army, but what choice did he have? The problem was Sansa I think, she should've told Jon so he could have been a little more conservative to lose as few men as possible while waiting for the surprise.
Anyway, fuck dogmeat Joffrey, fuck him to hell. Now the next bad guy is the Night King or Euron? Or both? I always thought in the books they are linked, and the WW, Euron and LF are all together in some big horrible plan.
Judging by the promo, is LF going full perv?
One can argue that Jon wasn't smart to charge with his small army, but what choice did he have? The problem was Sansa I think, she should've told Jon so he could have been a little more conservative to lose as few men as possible while waiting for the surprise.
Anyway, fuck dogmeat Joffrey, fuck him to hell. Now the next bad guy is the Night King or Euron? Or both? I always thought in the books they are linked, and the WW, Euron and LF are all together in some big horrible plan.
Judging by the promo, is LF going full perv?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I'm still not clear why the hell Sansa didn't tell Jon that she asked for reinforcements. What is there to gain by keeping that a secret? Was she secretly hoping that Jon would get killed and then she can swoop in with the knights of the Vale?
Additionally, I would have thought that Jon would have learned a thing or two and been a better battle commander and not foolishly rush into battle like that. So much for their plan.
It's kind of weird, there have been other scenes in other TV shows or movies (one movie in particular comes to mind), where the audience has to accept a character doing something stupid because they're overcome with emotion and rage. I guess we have to accept that in this case, with Jon.
Additionally, I would have thought that Jon would have learned a thing or two and been a better battle commander and not foolishly rush into battle like that. So much for their plan.
It's kind of weird, there have been other scenes in other TV shows or movies (one movie in particular comes to mind), where the audience has to accept a character doing something stupid because they're overcome with emotion and rage. I guess we have to accept that in this case, with Jon.
ChaosZeroX
Banned
I'm wondering besides the ending to the ToJ scene if they will show Bran making it passed the wall and what the Nights King and crew will be doing.
What will Cersei do? So many damn questions!
What will Cersei do? So many damn questions!
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