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[studyguy]

I'm happy to pretend whatever the show wants me to. For instance, I've been pretending that Jaime will see the meaningful development his character undergoes in the books for the past two seasons.

Pretending isn't the problem. The problem is lazy writing.

Distance has never mattered anyway. Time is such an obscure mess in this show they could literally have a Dornish army at the doorstep of The Wall and they could just wave it away by saying 'We've been at sea/on the road for months!'

Just gotta roll with it.

Yup I saw it in a bar and the reactions were pretty bad. My two friends didn't like it that much although one tried to defend the show a bit more. Everyone thought that the reveal really didn't change anything and the episode felt like nothing really happened.

My girlfriend thought Davos was the shit. Otherwise she asked me where the dogs went since she loves dogs during the Sansa scene, I hadn't even noticed till she mentioned it. She thought it was okay, didn't really care much about anyone outside of Davos at the The Wall and Arya out there being blind.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

He looks less like he's just been stabbed in the heart and more like someone just farted really loud.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I'm not entirely convinced that Hotah is killed yet (Considering it was one small dagger). While Doran and Trystane is definitely soooper dead.

But maaaaaan are those Sand Snakes line cringeworthy.

He's dead. Don't really know what significance he could even have with the story anymore, or why they'd leave him alive.

 

[fantomena]

I have a feeling that Brienne will

Spoiler

die this season. She wanted so much to pledge her alliance and support to Sansa or at least another Stark since she failed Catelyn. Her most honorable death will so be to die while serving the one she believes in, which is Sansa.

 

[studyguy]

I have a feeling that Brienne will

Spoiler

die this season. She wanted so much to pledge her alliance and support to Sansa or at least another Stark since she failed Catelyn. Her most honorable death will so be to die while serving the one she believes in, which is Sansa.

Spoiler

I'd sooner expect Pod to kick the bucket. Going by TWD style of killing inconsequential first. Not setting those expectations high, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Alienfan]

Yup I saw it in a bar and the reactions were pretty bad. My two friends didn't like it that much although one tried to defend the show a bit more. Everyone thought that the reveal really didn't change anything and the episode felt like nothing really happened.

Nothing really happened? . This episode seemed way more eventful than most, I think the issue is people wanting a red weeding every single week.

 

[Euron]

He looks less like he's just been stabbed in the heart and more like someone just farted really loud.

You can see him hold back a laugh before he gets stabbed.

My reaction as well Alex.

 

[toastyToast]

I have a feeling that Brienne will

Spoiler

die this season. She wanted so much to pledge her alliance and support to Sansa or at least another Stark since she failed Catelyn. Her most honorable death will so be to die while serving the one she believes in, which is Sansa.

That would be fairly uninspired in a, "they've served their purpose. might as well kill them." hand-wavy sort of way.

I'm about 90% sure you're right.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

You can see him hold back a laugh before he gets stabbed.

My reaction as well Alex.

That is his reaction to reading the script.

Suppressed laughter and shock that he signed up for this show after hearing it was good.

 

[Forkball]

I don't think Jon will come back until episode 3 given its name. Or if he does come back before that, it will be the stinger for next week.

Hopefully Olly bites it, or something bites him.

 

[OldGangWarily]

I don't think Jon will come back until episode 3 given its name. Or if he does come back before that, it will be the stinger for next week.

Hopefully Olly bites it, or something bites him.

Preferably Ghost.

 

[SpaceHorror]

Olly looked like such a petulant little shit during the Night's Watch meeting.

 

[fantomena]

Why *so* much dislike for the Dothraki? I thought the show just showed that they could be more "human-ish" with some humour and not savage-warriors that would rape, steal and kill everything they come by.

 

[InfiniteBento]

lemme edit this

 

[toastyToast]

Why *so* much dislike for the Dothraki? I thought the show just showed that they could be more "human-ish" with some humour and not savage-warriors that would rape, steal and kill everything they come by.

But they were about to, save for a technicality that about a million other women wouldn't have been saved by

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Why *so* much dislike for the Dothraki? I thought the show just showed that they could be more "human-ish" with some humour and not savage-warriors that would rape, steal and kill everything they come by.

Except all of their humor was ABOUT rape, theft, and murder.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Olly looked like such a petulant little shit during the Night's Watch meeting.

I thought they might weasel out of killing him, but it looks like they'll thankfully off him.

 

[Psychoward]

I have a feeling that Brienne will

Spoiler

die this season. She wanted so much to pledge her alliance and support to Sansa or at least another Stark since she failed Catelyn. Her most honorable death will so be to die while serving the one she believes in, which is Sansa.

Let's fucking pray. She was great in season 3 but after that managed to become one of the worst characters on the show.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I have a feeling that Brienne will

Spoiler

die this season. She wanted so much to pledge her alliance and support to Sansa or at least another Stark since she failed Catelyn. Her most honorable death will so be to die while serving the one she believes in, which is Sansa.

Spoiler

Jamie will kill her

 

[fantomena]

But they were about to, save for a technicality that about a million other women wouldn't have been saved by

Except all of their humor was ABOUT rape, theft, and murder.

Yeah sure, but here were something different about them, they were not scary kinda.

 

[Gigglepoo]

If we're keeping track of named characters who are killed off, does Hotah count? I don't remember him ever being named on the show.

Still, two more for sure yesterday. The show sure loves death.

 

[Psychoward]

Yeah sure, but here were something different about them, they were not scary kinda.

They were joking about ass fucking an innocent girl against her will.

 

[Griss]

I'm getting a kind of perverse pleasure out of the fact that one of the main things that sank my enjoyment of the books (Dorne) is now ruining people's enjoyment of the show, as well as the fact that I always maintained the stance that Dorne was just a shite world-building diversion by GRRM because he had lost the ability to progress his main plots, and this episode would seem to add a lot of weight to that argument.

What a disaster all of that mess has been.

Another poor episode, by the way. Wish I hadn't caved in an watched when I'd promised after the last season that I was done. Prior investment is a hell of a drug.

 

[Brakke]

Olly looked like such a petulant little shit during the Night's Watch meeting.

That's exactly what he is lol.

Why *so* much dislike for the Dothraki? I thought the show just showed that they could be more "human-ish" with some humour and not savage-warriors that would rape, steal and kill everything they come by.

Yeah it was good the new Khal isn't just Drogo redux. But having the new Khal be Drogo But With Pedantic Bloodriders And Jealous Wives isn't all that interesting.

 

[RavenSan]

Sand Snake murder list:

+Teens in love
+Crippled man
+Messenger
+Only black guy in Westeros

I'm stealing this from you. Fair warning.

Side note, add me to the "screw Show-Dorne" bandwagon. So bad.

 

[fantomena]

They were joking about ass fucking an innocent girl against her will.

I know, but i found Karl Drogo and his army way scarier.

 

[Psychoward]

I know, but i found Karl Drogo and his army way scarier.

Maybe, but this was hardly humanizing ya know.

 

[Enosh]

I'm getting a kind of perverse pleasure out of the fact that one of the main things that sank my enjoyment of the books (Dorne) is now ruining people's enjoyment of the show, as well as the fact that I always maintained the stance that Dorne was just a shite world-building diversion by GRRM because he had lost the ability to progress his main plots, and this episode would seem to add a lot of weight to that argument.

this, I'm happy that people finally share my hate for Dorne

 

[Last Hearth]

Those guards' non-response, my God.

Edit: Regarding the Sand Snakes appearing in his cabin, I can imagine ways they could have gotten aboard. But just skipping all that for the "OMG!" moment of their suddenly being there after cutting from Doran's death is just bad craftsmanship.

And in the end, this is the primary failure of D&D as writers the last few seasons, they've so fallen in love with the shocking "gotcha" moment that they've completely jettisoned any effort to set up anything for fear of spoiling the shocking moment.

But like Alfred Hitchcock said, two guys sitting at a table at it suddenly blowing up is not good storytelling, good storytelling two guys sitting at a table and then you see the bomb under the table ticking away. The suspense and drama is created by wondering if the bomb will go off and kill them.

GRRM knows this, he left a trail of clues for the Red Wedding, he let us know about the "daggers in the dark" so that we know something bad might happen to Jon.
Instead we have a moment where Doran is killed and basically I'm like the guards next to him with no reaction at all. Because there is no drama, no suspense, it's just nothing.

 

[Anarion07]

And in the end, this is the primary failure of D&D as writers the last few seasons, they've so fallen in love with the shocking "gotcha" moment that they've completely jettisoned any effort to set up anything for fear of spoiling the shocking moment.

But like Alfred Hitchcock said, two guys sitting at a table at it suddenly blowing up is not good storytelling, good storytelling two guys sitting at a table and then you see the bomb under the table ticking away. The suspense and drama is created by wondering if the bomb will go off and kill them.

GRRM knows this, he left a trail of clues for the Red Wedding, he let us know about the "daggers in the dark" so that we know something bad might happen to Jon.
Instead we have a moment where Doran is killed and basically I'm like the guards next to him with no reaction at all. Because there is no drama, no suspense, it's just nothing.

... you're saying there was NOTHING that hinted at some kind of rebellion?
Nothing?

 

[studyguy]

I thought they might weasel out of killing him, but it looks like they'll thankfully off him.

Jon coming back from the dead to punch smug kids in the face. I can see the internet and show watchers loving it, but frankly I hope they don't kill the kid. Seems cheap.

 

[Dr Prob]

Had a very specific bad feeling watching this episode though I don't know precisely how to describe that feeling. Sort of embarrassed for looking forward to it, yet you know it's your fault for having unrealistic expectations? Whatever that feeling is called, it can't be a thing anyone would want to purposefully evoke!

 

[SpaceHorror]

I'm still irritated that it looks as if there will be no consequences for Brienne abandoning her post watching for a signal from Sansa to go for a revenge kill against Stannis, whom she miraculously found. She abandoned her oath to Catelyn Stark to find and protect her daughters and yet she still gets to find Sansa at just the right moment, save her, and swear loyalty to her.

I really don't like her character in the show anymore.

 

[Psychoward]

I'm still irritated that it looks as if there will be no consequences for Brienne abandoning her post watching for a signal from Sansa to go for a revenge kill against Stannis, whom she miraculously found. She abandoned her oath to Catelyn Stark to find and protect her daughters and yet she still gets to find Sansa at just the right moment, save her, and swear loyalty to her.

I really don't like her character in the show anymore.

Amen

 

[mantidor]

Nothing really happened? . This episode seemed way more eventful than most, I think the issue is people wanting a red weeding every single week.

I don't think is like that, it's more like Dorne is so crappy casual viewers see anything from there as inconsequential, and the only place where something actually happened was there.

 

[duckroll]

I'm still irritated that it looks as if there will be no consequences for Brienne abandoning her post watching for a signal from Sansa to go for a revenge kill against Stannis, whom she miraculously found. She abandoned her oath to Catelyn Stark to find and protect her daughters and yet she still gets to find Sansa at just the right moment, save her, and swear loyalty to her.

I really don't like her character in the show anymore.

Not any different from how the show treats every other storyline they develop and then change their minds on later. In the show people argued for a whole season that the Ironborn would not be a factor for Mereen because Dany already had fleet. Well, all it took was Tyrion and Varys to go for a little leisurely walk in episode 1 and bam, there it all goes. Whoops, looks like we'll need ships from somewhere after all!

 

[Red Arremer]

... you're saying there was NOTHING that hinted at some kind of rebellion?
Nothing?

Oh, there were hints at the Sand Snakes and Ellaria wanting to rebel, but Doran getting stabbed came out of the blue. You can't say that this was, in any way, telegraphed or set up.

 

[Iksenpets]

I'm getting a kind of perverse pleasure out of the fact that one of the main things that sank my enjoyment of the books (Dorne) is now ruining people's enjoyment of the show, as well as the fact that I always maintained the stance that Dorne was just a shite world-building diversion by GRRM because he had lost the ability to progress his main plots, and this episode would seem to add a lot of weight to that argument.

What a disaster all of that mess has been.

Another poor episode, by the way. Wish I hadn't caved in an watched when I'd promised after the last season that I was done. Prior investment is a hell of a drug.

As someone who really likes book Dorne, it's funny because show Dorne is basically the caricature of Dorne that exists in Arianne's head at the start of Feast. Doran is weak! Everyone hates him! If we just rise up the people will join me and I will lead us against the Lannisters! The books swat that down and make Arianne realize it was dumb. The show is just like "nope, that's exactly what happens!"

Oh, there were hints at the Sand Snakes and Ellaria wanting to rebel, but Doran getting stabbed came out of the blue. You can't say that this was, in any way, telegraphed or set up.

Especially because Obara tried to pull the guards-are-on-our-side card last season, and the guards didn't hesitate to arrest her and bring her to Doran. But I guess returning Myrcella was just the straw that broke the camel's back, and now the guards are in universal rebellion.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Thanks everyone for letting me know I'm not crazy. The incredulity of that scene leading to mental gymnastics isn't all that surprising.

 

[bishopcruz]

Yup I saw it in a bar and the reactions were pretty bad. My two friends didn't like it that much although one tried to defend the show a bit more. Everyone thought that the reveal really didn't change anything and the episode felt like nothing really happened.

And yet reviews for this episode are all great. I feel like I'm living in Bizarro world.

Sand Snake murder list:

+Teens in love
+Crippled man
+Messenger
+Only black guy in Westeros

BadPussy and Greedy Bitch, the superheroes for our time.

And in the end, this is the primary failure of D&D as writers the last few seasons, they've so fallen in love with the shocking "gotcha" moment that they've completely jettisoned any effort to set up anything for fear of spoiling the shocking moment.

But like Alfred Hitchcock said, two guys sitting at a table at it suddenly blowing up is not good storytelling, good storytelling two guys sitting at a table and then you see the bomb under the table ticking away. The suspense and drama is created by wondering if the bomb will go off and kill them.

GRRM knows this, he left a trail of clues for the Red Wedding, he let us know about the "daggers in the dark" so that we know something bad might happen to Jon.
Instead we have a moment where Doran is killed and basically I'm like the guards next to him with no reaction at all. Because there is no drama, no suspense, it's just nothing.

Very much this. Shocks work when they happen for a reason, when they make sense. Starting in season 4, but ESPECIALLY last season, D&D stopped caring about setup, and just cared about the shocks. But it hurts the story because things happen that just don't make sense. It happened last season with nearly every plot, and it looks to be the same this year. Things will happen. But they will happen at random and for no good reason.

 

[toastyToast]

Oh, there were hints at the Sand Snakes and Ellaria wanting to rebel, but Doran getting stabbed came out of the blue. You can't say that this was, in any way, telegraphed or set up.

Nothing was shown of Dorne to suggest a dissatisfaction with Doran to the extent that his own personal guard would be in on his assassination. Dorne is treated very lazily in general and the material isn't particularly interesting regardless. Basically a recipe for disaster.

 

[dubq]

Yes, because the last time we saw them, they were with their mother and clearly not on the boat. The whole Dorne thing was poorly handled from the beginning and this is just the icing on that shit sandwich. Hell, I kind of want an explanation as to why the ship didn't turn around the second Myrcella was dead as they were basically minutes away from Dorne at that point. I mean, the princess was murdered for God's sake.

I dunno. Littlefinger travels at lightning speed in this show with little to no explanation. Not sure why this one is so unbelievable given that facet of the show.

Also, the ship probably didn't turn around because the guards were in on it, and knew Trystane's fate.

So assuming that they don't turn round for a reason, they also do nothing with Trystaine, who was either supposed to join the small council, or at least would be a major fucking hostage at this point, and the ship is IN King's landing. So for the snakes to get to Trys, they would need another ship, hidden from view for the entire trip, then pull up next to the ship carrying the heir, get on, get to him, and then kill him. Bullshit. With setup it would be ridiculous, without it, it's even worse.

Unless again, the guards on the ship were in on it. Like the ones who were guarding Doran. Trystane wouldn't notice since he's too busy painting eyeballs in his cabin.

 

[Operations]

What's this "Jon warged into Ghost just in time so he can be revived safely, no degradation will happen" theory I'm reading now? I vividly remember GRRM hinting that all revivals have a cost, be it physically or mentally. Jon coming back to life with same character/values and no trauma whatsoever would be REALLY lame.

 

[SpaceHorror]

Not any different from how the show treats every other storyline they develop and then change their minds on later. In the show people argued for a whole season that the Ironborn would not be a factor for Mereen because Dany already had fleet. Well, all it took was Tyrion and Varys to go for a little leisurely walk in episode 1 and bam, there it all goes. Whoops, looks like we'll need ships from somewhere after all!

Haha, you're absolutely right.

 

[Enosh]

I'm still irritated that it looks as if there will be no consequences for Brienne abandoning her post watching for a signal from Sansa to go for a revenge kill against Stannis, whom she miraculously found. She abandoned her oath to Catelyn Stark to find and protect her daughters and yet she still gets to find Sansa at just the right moment, save her, and swear loyalty to her.

I really don't like her character in the show anymore.

some characters just have plot armor and rarely suffer consequences for their actions

and yes, the "omg shocking moments!!" is just completely off the charts atm

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

What's this "Jon warged into Ghost just in time so he can be revived safely, no degradation will happen" theory I'm reading now? I vividly remember GRRM hinting that all revivals have a cost, be it physically or mentally. Jon coming back to life with same character/values and no trauma whatsoever would be REALLY lame.

Except now a little bit of Ghost came back with him, so now he snarls a lot and can't help but howl at the moon.

 

[Henkka]

MHYSA* IS A MASTER

*Mhysa means 'mother'

 

[Doc Holliday]

Holy shit! I just remembered that it was Jon Connington that rescued Tyrion and contracted Greyscale lol.

There is no way now that the Aegon storyline is intrdouced huh :/

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Except now a little bit of Ghost came back with him, so now he snarls a lot and can't help but howl at the moon.

I can't wait to see Jon shit on the floor, sniff Edd's crouch, and dry hump Melisandre's leg for hours on end.

 

[studyguy]

MHYSA* IS A MASTER

*Mhysa means 'mother'