Ocarina_117
Banned
There was a post in the non-booker reader thread praising this!
I guess the general audience won't mind the story direction with dorne.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
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There was a post in the non-booker reader thread praising this!
I guess the general audience won't mind the story direction with dorne.
She also stabbed him in the spine. At the very least he's paralyzed, and probably left to die.
That's been a fairly consistent theme with the show's adaptation of the story. Martin's bloat is nothing short of insane. Why bother with Doran's destined to fail machinations, with the numerous characters, sets, and exposition required, when you can achieve the same result with a quick stab to the dude's chest?
CopperPuppy
Member
He acts as a fly-on-the-wall POV to the various Dornish subplots. It allows the reader to see the scheming in Dorne unfold while keeping the characters' true motivations hidden, as each is viewed from the outside looking in - through Hotah's eyes instead of their own.
It's a different storytelling approach allowed by the POV technique employed by GRRM. Contrast it to Tyrion's scheming in ACOK, where we are aware of his exact motives and intentions. This is not the case with most of the Dornish characters, and intentionally so. A good comparison might be Cersei in AGOT / ACOK / ASOS, where we are only shown her character through the lens of others, to Cersei in AFFC onward, where the readers are allowed to step in to her shoes to get a glimpse at how she views her situation and, as a result, why she acts the way she does. It all comes down to whether GRRM wants to show the readers a given character's inner machinations, or not. Hotah is a way to accomplish the latter.
Seriously, why bother with all of that plot and character development stuff? The show should just skip to the very end while we're at it - who needs all of this bloat! I don't even know why books have all of those pages in the middle; what's the point? Beginning and end is all I need.
Why bother when that plot and character development has always been a divergence from the plot and characters that people actually give a shit about? Dorne was bloat in the books, and it's bloat in the show.
Ones interesting and ones boring
bengraven
Member
Esquire's "least shitty thing on GOT of the week" makes me think you guys wrote it.
http://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...pisode-1-recap-the-red-woman/?src=social-text
http://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...pisode-1-recap-the-red-woman/?src=social-text
The headline is more "The least shitty (behavior-wise) character on GOT..."
Otherwise the article would be a very short "Dorne. Lol jk fuk u. Dorne was the worst."
Red Arremer
Member
Dorne being a bloat in the books or not aside - if the showrunners basically take out everything that is compelling about Dorne in the first place and turn it into a stupid ass shitshow, why even bother to have Dorne in the first place, then? That story arc lead to absolutely nothing. Surely they could've killed Myrcella off-screen or in some other fashion and have Dorne rise up off-screen as well.
Like, just have Oberyn be the only person that visits from Dorne, and we get to hear a little about it and leave it at that.
I don't disagree. I think Myrcella was the only important thing in Dorne. With her dead, I would've been happy to never have to see it again.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I'm starting to think only recently that D&D learn that the Dorne plot would lead to jack shit. They established it and cast roles just in case it lead somewhere but when GRRM told them that it wouldn't they decided to just end it all in a couple episodes.
or they just backtracked from the super negative reaction it got last year
Hopefully the Sand Snakes die soon then.
They almost make me wish Joffrey was still around so he could so something cruel to them when they fail to assassinate someone in Kings Landing.
Dash_Riprock
Member
It that was true it would've been the Bad Pussies who were taken out within 15 seconds. Everyone seemed to like wheelchair dude and big black guy with axe.
Moff
Member
well with that logic you could show everything offscreen
the rise of dorne is surely important in the next seasons, especially since dany will likely land there and whatever aegon is doing in the books will start there as well.
and lets be honest, whatever happens there, arianne will be the most important character there, and she is in the show as ellaria, so show dorne is in no way "nothing" or "filler". it's exactly where it will be in the books. but instead of "I am of the night" we got bad pussies.
I have a feeling we're not going to get much more in Dorne this season, and they might get picked back up next season (much like the Ironborn sat out season 5 and most of 4).
Wouldn't Ellaria support Dany, who wishes to conquer the Lannisters?
Wouldn't Ellaria support Dany, who wishes to conquer the Lannisters?
bengraven
Member
That's probably because the bad pussies do end up doing something important in the books. Or they just didn't understand what people liked and didn't like.
Dash_Riprock
Member
She just killed what was essentially her Brother-in-Law and Nephew. I wouldn't put anything past her.
She killed them because she wants war with the Lannisters and they were standing in the way. Dany on the other hand does want war with the Lannisters.
Dash_Riprock
Member
What if she sees Tyrion with her and thinks Dany has made peace with them? She killed Myrcella solely for revenge by proxy. Killing Tyrion even after he stands against the other Lannisters wouldn't be out of the question.
They've known the ending as of season 4. They knew what they were getting into when the launched Dorne.
Well, you see, their jet skis only got to Trystane's moored boat after Jaime had already disembarked with the smaller boat with Myrcella's body. Yep. That's it.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Well we're entering into entirely hypothetical territory here. Just seems to me that they have set-up a Dorne that will ally with Dany assuming she arrives in Westeros by Season 7 (sigh).
They have, it's just so weird when there's a book plot that sets that up, too, that makes way more sense. You could have pulled the book speech pretty much exactly to reveal that Doran is a Dany supporter and had the Sand Snakes go to work for him like in the books. And without Aegon or Quentyn, there's nothing my to ever create a schism between Dany and the Dornish like in the books.
Psychoward
Banned
20 good men strike again!
>group of organized armed men running around
>killing unsullied like nobody's business
>would have been able to pull off an assassination on dany if it wasn't for the dragon
>burn down the entire fleet without anybody noticing
tyrion and varys continue to walk around in broad daylight without any bodyguards
....
adamsappel
Member
It seems like warging has been abandoned by the show, save for Bran. And it wouldn't need Mel's help, but by now it seems too late. Easier just to have Jon resurrected.
I don't even get the supposed joke he's making.
You have no idea what is "filler" in the books, you don't know what D&D and GRRM have discussed, and it's clear you have no idea how books are written.
They're (sort of) misleading you. The two riders were talking about fucking Dany but unaware she could understand them. Be happy you couldn't read the dialog, it was awful. When she meets the Khal she reveals her identity and he says she won't be raped, but she is to be taken to the home of the Khal widows instead of being returned to Mereen.Damn. Not what I expected from body language and intonation.
I know you guys probably already covered this but do we have any plausible explanations for what happen with the dogs?
Interdimensional time travel hasn't really been introduced as plausible in Westeros so that rules that out, right?
Do we know if the zerg burrow ability has been ruled out as well?
Interdimensional time travel hasn't really been introduced as plausible in Westeros so that rules that out, right?
Do we know if the zerg burrow ability has been ruled out as well?
They heard their owner blowing a dog whistle and announcing dinner time as they dump Myranda's body.
Askherserenity
Member
How can people say Dorne is bloat in the books when we don't even know what's going on yet? I'm sure GRRM wrote and continues to write about Dorne for a reason. Is it just because some people found it boring and don't feel like it will add anything to the endgame?
It's like you're calling every story line that isn't about the Starks or Dany fluff. The best thing about ASoIaF are the characters and the world building to me so I'm not sure.
It's like you're calling every story line that isn't about the Starks or Dany fluff. The best thing about ASoIaF are the characters and the world building to me so I'm not sure.
Are you actually questioning why Martin is bothering to create a world with characters and motivations that make sense? Where thousands of smaller choices avalanche into larger movements? I have no idea how to answer that without sounding incredibly condescending.
Yeah it's a good thing the vacuum created by Dany taking off and Hizdahr being stabbed didn't create a power struggle in Meereen. Everyone's just cool with two strangers from Westeros and a nobody Unsullied ruling the city. Well except the Sons of the Harpy, whose motivations seem... Odd. I mean, they got what they wanted, right? What's the point of burning all the boats?
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
The only way to save the Dorne plot is for Sunspear to be wiped out by an asteroid in the opening scene of episode 2, while immediately afterwards the remaining two Sand Snakes run into Karl "Fookin" Tanner's identical twin brother Jim in Gin Alley and get slaughtered.
Ah, thanks for the wonderful insight.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
-- SUPER glad the show confirmed that everything GRRM was doing with Dorne was a waste of time. Between this and the spare Targaryen thing I've forgotten about (the guy that travels up the river with Tyrion?), nothing has been harder to follow or care about. I just typed that out and am already bored. It's fitting that the entirety of Dorne's presence in the show is given equal care.
-- Agreed the show will probably have Mel force-warg (is that a thing? IT IS NOW!) Snow into Ghost's wolf body. Be ready for shaky cam.
-- Best question right now is what Davos does when he discovers Shireen was BBQ'd, probably revealed when Sansa and Co get to the Wall. With Stannis already dead, what else is there to do but take out Melisandre immediately after the Snow Wargin'?
-- Not sure I can handle another season of Obvious Brutal Training Is Obvious with Arya.
-- Actively rooting for Jamie + Cersei + Dead Mountain to burn down the sparrow church.
-- (holy shit do we have a lot to sort out with the Iron Islands if/when we ever get there)
-- (holy shit we still have to catch up with Samwell Tarley and baby)
-- I'm thoroughly expecting to be disappointed by Bran's Tree of Time thing, which means I'll be pleasantly surprised, right?
-- Another season of Dany setbacks, yay.
-- yay
-- Agreed the show will probably have Mel force-warg (is that a thing? IT IS NOW!) Snow into Ghost's wolf body. Be ready for shaky cam.
-- Best question right now is what Davos does when he discovers Shireen was BBQ'd, probably revealed when Sansa and Co get to the Wall. With Stannis already dead, what else is there to do but take out Melisandre immediately after the Snow Wargin'?
-- Not sure I can handle another season of Obvious Brutal Training Is Obvious with Arya.
-- Actively rooting for Jamie + Cersei + Dead Mountain to burn down the sparrow church.
-- (holy shit do we have a lot to sort out with the Iron Islands if/when we ever get there)
-- (holy shit we still have to catch up with Samwell Tarley and baby)
-- I'm thoroughly expecting to be disappointed by Bran's Tree of Time thing, which means I'll be pleasantly surprised, right?
-- Another season of Dany setbacks, yay.
-- yay
Ah, that's at least something. I've seen so many people talk about her "shocking" reveal that it makes me a little frustrated. D&D are obsessed with shocks to the determent of measured storytelling. Just kind of tiresome. I liked the premier more than most in this thread but it was still bland storytelling. A lot of "and then this happened!" without proper setup or explanation.
I just keep wondering why I should care. Revealing Mel is old doesn't mean anything in and of itself. Why does it matter? That's why rewatching the show is always such a drag. There's no meat on the bones, just empty surprises, so once you know what's coming, there's little to pick at.
The books are the exact opposite. Every re-read reveals new clues toward what's going to happen and you can see the breadcrumbs leading to every new plot development. Yes, it's possible to do this kind of storytelling in television as well, but D&D are either unwilling or unable to give us anything with depth.
So it makes sense why tristane was painting those eye things. He probably was told that she died and waited on the boat painting those thing until he was allowed on Kings landing.
I'm OK with the show now telling us 100% how things are happening. Sometimes it's more fun to come up with it on are own.
I'm OK with the show now telling us 100% how things are happening. Sometimes it's more fun to come up with it on are own.
radios shipping overview
Member
She's a sorceress, basically, and wizard-types are often ageless or extraordinarily long-lived, so it's not something that's particularly surprising.
In fact, showing her explicitly as her aged self is probably spelling things out a bit more obviously than they need to be. But I guess there must be a plot-related reason for the show to spell out her ability to create glamours. We'll find out soon enough.
Of course you were going to cave. I doubt more than a handful of the "never again" folk hold out for the entire season.
Eh, I think they just needed a climax for the catch up episode and didn't have anything else.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I have a sneaking feeling that once the shows over most are gonna agree that ASOIAF's story was something that could've easily been told in 3 books like originally intended.
I would say when book 7/8 comes out, but I doubt I'll care once they actually are released.
Was the reveal even shocking in the least?
The reveal happened and I was all "Okay... So I guess Melisandre will die to revive Jon?"
The actual reveal was done well but telegraphed by the obscured mirror trope and the resulting 30 seconds of grandma nudity wasn't exactly appreciated haha
The reveal happened and I was all "Okay... So I guess Melisandre will die to revive Jon?"
The actual reveal was done well but telegraphed by the obscured mirror trope and the resulting 30 seconds of grandma nudity wasn't exactly appreciated haha
Rand0m TAG
Member
this may have been answered but i dont get it still.
didnt oberyn volunteer for the dual? he wasnt held captive and if he wasnt cocky, he could have won. their point of view for starting a war is as stupid as to why jon got killed in the show
didnt oberyn volunteer for the dual? he wasnt held captive and if he wasnt cocky, he could have won. their point of view for starting a war is as stupid as to why jon got killed in the show
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