A piece of entertainment or media being set in a historical or historically-based time period which we now perceive had a lot of misogyny does not make the entertainment/media inherently misogynistic, no matter your personal views.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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A piece of entertainment or media being set in a historical or historically-based time period which we now perceive had a lot of misogyny does not make the entertainment/media inherently misogynistic, no matter your personal views.
That's not really true.
GRRM's using resurrection as an easy tool to change his characters in substantial ways and show the other costs of magic.
The show didn't really follow through on its own rules they established because it seems more like any changes that Jon accrued were as a result of his stabbing and not his death. And those changes seem to have just been a temporary phase.
Like Jon could've been stabbed and not died last season and not much would've been changed for this season.
Agreed. Depiction does not equal endorsement.
Black_Sun, if you really only want to talk about what "GRRM says" or whatever, could you please stick to the book thread? This is a thread about the HBO show created by DB Weiss and David Benoiff. Stop trying to correct every single person to mentions anything and bring up context from the books which no longer apply to the show.
Clearly she intended to be stabbed to lure her into that dark room. That's how next-level she is, she knew the old lady was the waif and that the stabbing would be non-fatal.
It was all according to Keikaku.
Game of Thrones is an adaptation of his novels.
GRRM is a screenwriter for the show.
GRRM is an executive producer for the show.
GRRM okays D & D's scripts.
Their ending is supposed to end like his.
I'm not even bringing stuff up about the books per se but what he's said in recent interviews.
And I'm even basing some of that evidence of what the show's established as well in this instance.
It's all well and good if you don't want me to make actual and constant book comparisons but don't you think that not bringing up what the actual creator thinks and says is a little extreme?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The piano music at the beginning of this episode reminds of some other theme from some TV show or movie or video game or something. I can't really put my finger on it, and it's driving me insane right now.
I know what you mean.
I can't stop listening to it though.
It'd be a shame if they never use it again.
I mean you clearly don't understand what I've been trying to say. This isn't a request. It's telling you that if you want to talk about the book's logic or whatever "rules" established by the books or what GRRM says about the books, go talk about it in the book thread. That's it. End of discussion. If you want to talk about the SHOW, talk about the show. On the show, Jon Snow's death released him from his vows in the Night's Watch because he died. That was the narrative purpose. There's nothing to correct there. Even if you don't like it, it's 100% accurate. They killed him to release him from his vow so he could ride south and reclaim Winterfell. If he didn't die he would be an oathbreaker.
Whatever GRRM has planned for death and resurrection in the books have little to no bearing on the show at this point. The themes are different, and what he says that applies to the books is irrelevant to what the creators of the show have planned for the show. If GRRM says something specifically about the show, that would be relevant, but he's not going to.
Whatever GRRM has planned for death and resurrection in the books have little to no bearing on the show at this point. The themes are different, and what he says that applies to the books is irrelevant to what the creators of the show have planned for the show. If GRRM says something specifically about the show, that would be relevant, but he's not going to.
It reminded me of "Coward" from the Interstellar soundtrack, starting at 5:02
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoP44KNu0IQ&list=PLPS5GX2Oe-9tboGnfvsn_HZWlr2og93wr&index=13
Discotheque
Banned
yeah as soon as the organs hit i figured djawadi was listening to Insterstellar's soundtrack. the buildup was so similar. Ramin's best work on GOT in years. and honestly that's one of the GOAT game of thrones scenes too, i loved that whole kings landing sequence
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Share my anguish with meeee! ;P
I guess it's sorta similar, but I don't think that's what it's reminding me of. That track you linked shares too much of the theme from "No Time For Caution", and I've watched Interstellar so many times now that I think I would have thought of that movie immediately if that's what the GoT piano theme reminded me of.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
So... the Howland Reed = High Sparrow theory is pretty much dead now right? 
Dash_Riprock
Member
I imagine she'll ask Jamie for more kids and at that point he'll say "fuck this" and leave.
Speaking of that, I like to think that Jamie (who will be Warden of the West most likely) will be smart and bend the knee to Dany when she arrives.
Okay well my original point still stands. The show broke its own rules on resurrection by bringing back Jon almost the same when it established with Beric that it changes you significantly.
Jon Snow's death releasing him from his vows is actually ambiguous. As Dolorous Edd says, Jon pledged himself to the Night's Watch for all the nights to come .
What's the importance of being an oathbreaker here? Are you talking about being an oathbreaker in Jon's own eyes or for the world at large?
Because most people in the North won't really buy that Jon was resurrected unless there was a repeat with lots of witnesses. So he probably is an oathbreaker in their eyes, they just don't care
And GRRM has said a lot of stuff relevant to the show on the DVDs and in his interviews.
He even talked about his top characters he wished were on the show.
But in this case would she actually let him
He killed her dad even if he was a madman.
So... the Howland Reed = High Sparrow theory is pretty much dead now right?
It was always a shitty theory.
Bustanen
Member
Weren't the Reeds more kind of old gods folk?So... the Howland Reed = High Sparrow theory is pretty much dead now right?
Yep but that won't stop people
I still think the Meera Reed is Jon Snow's twin sister theory is dumber
Dash_Riprock
Member
Indeed. Regardless, given the show's penchant for Karmic/Ironic deaths, if and when Jamie dies I imagine that it'll be for doing something once against considered dishonorable by most yet still pragmatic and necessary.
That was like 3 seasons ago, mate, it's time to move on.
maybe next season
WrenchNinja
Member
For an episode called winds of winter, it didn't really feel like winter had come besides Jon and Sansa commenting on it for a minute
The only thing that matters to Jon is Jon himself. How he sees himself, how he carries himself, his own version of honor. His death gave him an out, which otherwise he would struggle with. He doesn't have to struggle with it anymore clearly. If he didn't die, he would still be Lord Commander, he would probably have given Sansa the support of the wildlings if they were willing, but he wouldn't ride with her, he wouldn't reclaim Winterfell, and he wouldn't accept the title of King in the North. He turned all that down before, when Stannis offered it. Why would he accept it now? Because he died. Death changed him and allowed him to justify all this as part of his rebirth.
You can also see all the white ravens leaving the Citadel when Sam arrives. Those are headed to different locations all over Westeros to announce the arrival of winter.
bitbydeath
Member
You're wrong.
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Beric_Dondarrion
That is the tolls for being brought back, and it gets worse after every death.
Jon Snow has died once, Beric has died 6 times of course the penalty is higher for him.
Wrong again.
Here's the first part of the Oath.
Jon Snow died, so he is released from the Oath as per the words spoken. End of story.
If he breaks the Oath, he would be killed, as above he was released from his vows when he died.
Songs will no doubt be written about him, to whom it really matters (the deciders of his fate) know the truth.
Not sure what this has to do with anything. GRRM does not write all the scripts for the show nor sign off from them. He can say what he wants at the end of the day it is D&D's production.
I mean honestly though...what is the point of this thread anymore? The show is at least a book ahead of the books at this point. There's nothing left to discuss about that's purely exclusive to book readers. That this thread had bogged down to minutia and groveling about how the books will do it should be no real surprise to anyone.
This thread was honestly unnecessary a season ago. This season it feels like it's like a rotting appendage left floating purely out of a lack of shits given to merge them.
Bustanen
Member
What was the meaning of the bird from the citadel anyway? Is there a weatherman who announces the start of seasons or something?
To contain #TeamLSH truthers mostly.
bitbydeath
Member
Varys on the boat at the end was just ridiculous.
I don't often criticize the 'teleporting' but c'mon that is just going too far.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Red Wedding was an inside job!!!
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
A real shame to see Margery go.
Great episode, though. The show version of Cersei is so, so much better than AFFC Cersei,
Great episode, though. The show version of Cersei is so, so much better than AFFC Cersei,
This isn't really true at all. This thread has a lot of speculation every week about where the books might go after new revelations in the show, prompting people to bring up characters never introduced in the show that people in the show-only thread won't have a clue about. Also, the flood of posts would just be way too fucking high if everyone was centralized in one thread.
I'm also pretty sure nothing is stopping you from just posting in the show-only thread.
When the squad calls, you answer. It don't matter if you are half way around the world. It's time to roll out in fashion.
Also the best Dorne scene since Bad pussy. Queen of Roses just telling the lot to STFU.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
Will Aegon be forgotten completely from show?
I'm also bit worried that if ending is supposed to be the same, missing characters won't be important to end game on the books either. Of course D&D can share and move plotpoints to other characters too as they have already done.
I'm also bit worried that if ending is supposed to be the same, missing characters won't be important to end game on the books either. Of course D&D can share and move plotpoints to other characters too as they have already done.
We need a place to discuss "Varys is a merman" or "Euron = Daario" or "HS = Howland Reed" theories while saying how bad the show is for not implying those and more.
The books don't either
Let us have fun
It is disappointing to see that the true oldest Stark is ignored, but this is pretty consistent with GRRM's vision of how things are done in Westeros.
Men inheriting and having rights superior to women seems like a constant theme that GRRM reinforces again and again. In the story this is referenced with Cersei's comparison's of her treatment to Jamie's and in the world building you see it often come up when Dorne is compared to the rest of Westeros, as in Dorne women are treated more as equals when it comes to inheritance.
If you really want to dig into the supplementary materials, GRRM wrote a massive I don't know what you'd call it, short story I guess, about a civil war the Targaryens had "The Princess and the Queen" that basically entirely came about because of a disagreement over whether a woman should inherit above a man.
wesleyshark
Banned
Is this a serious post? Jon lead all those men into battle and fought on the front lines with them. Of course they would want him to be their king. And D&D aren't screwing the women over, the two most powerful people in the show right now are women.
Don't forget the all powerful bad pussy
Future PhaZe
Member
Jaime was so shook
I don't think he kills Cersei though.
I don't think he kills Cersei though.
wesleyshark
Banned
Yeah I can't tell if that post is serious or sarcastic. Most of the most powerful figures in the series right now are women.
And men suffer just as much as women do. No one is safe from pain in ASOIAF
Jon was a terrible commander last episode though, I wouldn't want someone that says "fuck it" to all tactics and just charges towards a cavalry line on his own as my king.
bitbydeath
Member
Would you rather someone like Stannis who just stands back and watches his family burn?
WrenchNinja
Member
I guess I was expecting more "Everybody Panic!" throughout the episode than Jon and Sansa's sensible chuckle.
Actually, most of the people in that room weren't at the battle. All they know is that he won. They also got hyped by Lady Mormont and maybe Davos Lord of Hype. So it makes sense!
But it makes too much sense. Jamie would inherit Joffery/Tommens sword "widows Wail" and litterally use it to make a widow wail. Not very subtleGoT
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