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[John Dunbar]

I could be wrong, but I just rewatched season 1 and I don't think he ever explicitly says that she was raped. He makes it clear that he abducted her, as does Bran later in the season. My expectation for GRRM putting a twist on the Tower of Joy is that Lyanna was happy with Rhaegar and loved him. Possibly that they were married (some Targs, maybe just Aegon, took multiple wives, right?), making Jon the rightful king when Dayne and the Kingsguard defend him.

They really should have been more explicit for casual viewers. Simply not splitting Ned and company fighting the Kingsguard and the Jon reveal by like 8 episodes would have probably done it.

i don't think that would be a twist at all. in fact, lyanna going with rhaegar willingly is pretty much how everyone expects it to have played out. so rhaegar not raping lyanna would be a twist for the people of westeros, but not for the readers. a twist would be something like rhaeger actually raping lyanna, and the "promise" ned made would be something like killing the bastard that resulted from it.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Not directly, but the large stockpile of wildfire under the city would be the best guess.

Yeah, that was my first thought as well, but I thought his use of "it's much worse than you feared" was odd.

Great use of music this episode as well, Ramin Djawadi really knocks it out the park when it comes to those big moments.

 

[Freshmaker]

I'm sure that was Cersei.

He didn't seem like much of a threat though did he.

He smelled of dead cats and enjoyed twisting the verbal knife about her lack of power whenever he encountered Cerci.

 

[elrechazado]

I just rewatched S01E01 and there King Robert and his whole entourage travel from King's Landing to Winterfell in literally 10 Minutes of the same episode, it's hard to believe people have still troubles about this kind of narrative in the finale of the sixth season.

Cat going to and from kings landing was like an afternoon ride.

They get these distances do wrong. Hell, one of my least favorite things about the series is bran's fall, which was from an incredibly high tower in the books and was like 12 feet in the show.

 

[gazele]

Thinking back a few episodes ago, what was the "rumour" Qyburn discussed with Cersei? Was it ever revealed what that was?

It was clearly that there was still wildfire under King's Landing

 

[NoTacos]

Cat going to and from kings landing was like an afternoon ride.

They get these distances do wrong. Hell, one of my least favorite things about the series is bran's fall, which was from an incredibly high tower in the books and was like 12 feet in the show.

No idea what show you were watching, but the fall at the end of S01E01 looked like Shane O'Mac falling from the top of the titantron.

 

[Brakke]

one of my least favorite things about the series is bran's fall, which was from an incredibly high tower in the books and was like 12 feet in the show.

 

[Riposte]

Just how old is the "R+L=J theory"? When did it first pop up as a commonly understood fan theory?

 

[HawksWinStanley]

dat twelve foot drop

 

[Anton Sugar]

Did Jaime see Arya, in disguise, in this episode? My sister thinks she saw him make eye contact with her but I didn't and didn't get to rewatch.

Yeah, wut? I got nervous as hell for him even when he was just climbing up the damn thing.

 

[John Dunbar]

Just how old is the "R+L=J theory"? When did it first pop up as a commonly understood fan theory?

back in the 1990s, i'm sure. people figured it out after the first book.

 

[dmann]

Thinking back a few episodes ago, what was the "rumour" Qyburn discussed with Cersei? Was it ever revealed what that was?

Wildfyre below the Sept of Baelor and all around King's Landing.

 

[bitbydeath]

Book reader conspiracy theory. "High Howland". Idea being that Howland infiltrated KL as The High Sparrow in order to exact vengeance against Lannister for his dear friend Ned.

That theory is dead now, it it were him it would have been hinted prior to his death.

As I said before he could have been Syrio/faceless man as he was a hired by Ned, how did Ned happen to stumble upon the best swordsman in Braavos in Kings Landing?

 

[Black_Sun]

Jon is king because he is the man with the plan to fight the others, that's what he was brought back for, what he brought the wildlings for, what he united the north for, that's why the north chose him.
It's true that Sansa would have been the true heir to Winterfell if nothing ever happened, but a lot happened. The north was taken away from the Starks. Just like the 7 kingdoms were taken away from the Targaryens.
Dany would be the true heir, but no one cares, she has to take it back again, just like the Starks have to take back the north, just like Jon took back and united the north.
And he didn't even want it, he offered it to Sansa and she did not want it either. The north chose Jon because he united the north, because he took the task upon himself to fight the white walkers. That's why he was chosen, why he has earned it to be chosen.

You are probably refering to the lack of Robbs will, but no one cares about a silly piece of paper, just like no one cared that Robert named Ned protector of the realm. In the end, power lies where people believe it lies, and in the north, the people believe in Jon Snow, and this season has sold that perfectly.

False. People care about Robert's will that's why Cersei destroyed it immediately. Cersei herself doesn't care about Robert's will but others do. Do you imagine what would've happened if Ned had properly advertised that Robert had made him Lord Protector of the Realm?

That's kind of a theme that maybe the show is hitting that's not true to real life. People care about legitimacy.

And that's not really true. Jon doesn't have a plan to fight the others. That's not even a reason why they voted him in. They just think he's awesome I guess.

But anyways the season hasn't sold why Jon would be a leader that people would want. He's not charismatic. He's not particularly intelligent nor is he a visionary. Hes not even a good general. He's just a good warrior. He's a lesser Robb Stark.

I mean I can roll with it if it proves that Jon is a shitty leader and he's just a second Robert Baratheon in the making. Good warrior, shirty king.

Yeah there are scenes about Davos talking about the real war being against the Others but what proof do these northerners actually have of them. Only Lyanna seems to have bought it.

 

[Moff]

That theory is dead now, it it were him it would have been hinted prior to his death.

As I said before he could have been Syrio/faceless man as he was a hired by Ned, how did Ned happen to stumble upon the best swordsman in Braavos in Kings Landing?

I don't think it's that far fetched that a master swordsman would offer his services in the capital of westeros

 

[Crisco]

Just how old is the "R+L=J theory"? When did it first pop up as a commonly understood fan theory?

First book. "Promise me", Tower of Joy flashback, and enough context about Lyanna/Rhaegar to piece it together were all there from the start.

 

[Black_Sun]

So that we (the audience) could see it.

Yeah this is kinda dumb though. You can just pan down below the sept to see it

 

[kirblar]

Apologies if I'm LTTP on this - but is Widow's Wail now Lightbringer, and soon to be in the hands of Daenarys?

Joffrey was buried with the sword at Balor. Given that it's Valyrian Steel, it's unlikely to have been destroyed, and there's a very good chance it's now engulfed in green flame.

Also fits as Fire X Ice.

edit:

According to prophecy, the Prince That Was Promised would be reborn "amidst salt and smoke"[3] and pull a flaming sword from the flames, Lightbringer, to combat the coming darkness.[4]

Cersei blows up King's Landing rather than letting it fall into Dany's hands (a la S2), Dany comes upon Lightbringer in the ruins of the city.

 

[bitbydeath]

I don't think it's that far fetched that a master swordsman would offer his services in the capital of westeros

Maybe but how could a master swordsman be beat by Meryen Trant? Even the Hound joked that Syrio was no master swordsman if Trant beat him.

 

[Brakke]

Just how old is the "R+L=J theory"? When did it first pop up as a commonly understood fan theory?

I think the Knight of the Laughing Tree episode sort of seals the deal, and that was in the third book, 2000. I didn't read the books until around the time Dance came out tho, I'm sure the GoT fandom had some harebrained theories as far back as the '90s.

Did Jaime see Arya, in disguise, in this episode? My sister thinks she saw him make eye contact with her but I didn't and didn't get to rewatch.

Yeah they definitely did. Bron was getting jealous of her mentally undressing (actually, sizing up) Jaime, Arya lurking is what made Jaime wingman up those babes for Bron.

 

[RiZ III]

I know They're going to have Jaime disgusted with Cersei next season and continue his redemption arc, but I would almost rather him turn heel and say fuck it just go all out evil.

Or maybe Lady Stoneheart will finally make an appearance, send Brienne out to kill Jaime, and there'll be a final showdown between the two. Jaime will die after he has redeemed himself.

Certainly the books seem to be headed in this direction. Jaime already turned in Cersie a while ago in the books. She had sent him a letter asking him to help her escape from the high sparrow and Jaime just trashed the letter because he was already so disgusted by her.

 

[Freshmaker]

Maybe but how could a master swordsman be beat by Meryen Trant? Even the Hound joked that Syrio was no master swordsman if Trant beat him.

He was facing multiple armored opponents with a weighted practice stick. GRRM is very fond of pointing out that armor is a major advantage in a fight.

 

[frontovik]

There were so many opportunities for Lady Stoneheart to make an appearance. She's not coming back, so let it go.

It's bizarre how people can get so worked up over this character.

 

[Moff]

And that's not really true. Jon doesn't have a plan to fight the others. That's not even a reason why they voted him in. They just think he's awesome I guess.

But anyways the season hasn't sold why Jon would be a leader that people would want. He's not charismatic. He's not particularly intelligent nor is he a visionary. Hes not even a good general. He's just a good warrior. He's a lesser Robb Stark.

I'd agree with that, he is a lesser Robb Stark, but Sansa is even less. All she did was accept the service of a man who intends to use her, she wrote a letter to accept that offer, that's all she did, it won the battle, that is certain, but it did not require any effort from her. Jon united the north and the wildlings against the Boltons, fought in the battle himself and killed Ramsay Bolton. I don't see who else they should pick as their leader? And that's if you ignore the white walkers completely, which is not what I think the north does, even if they have no proof, yet.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

The first person to put the Sept scene to this song wins my everlasting affection.

 

[show me your skeleton]

Thinking back a few episodes ago, what was the "rumour" Qyburn discussed with Cersei? Was it ever revealed what that was?

it's that the mountain can actually take his helmet off.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Wouldn't that wildfire explosion completely burn down King's Landing? I thought was much more dangerous than regular fire or something.

 

[kirblar]

Wouldn't that wildfire explosion completely burn down King's Landing? I thought was much more dangerous than regular fire or something.

Wildfire doesn't spread. Has to be put out with sand. So as long as you take care of the regular flames, you can contain it and slowly put it out.

 

[dc89]

There were so many opportunities for Lady Stoneheart to make an appearance. She's not coming back, so let it go.

It's bizarre how people can get so worked up over this character.

Yeah - she's not happening in the show.

 

[Freshmaker]

Apologies if I'm LTTP on this - but is Widow's Wail now Lightbringer, and soon to be in the hands of Daenarys?

Joffrey was buried with the sword at Balor. Given that it's Valyrian Steel, it's unlikely to have been destroyed, and there's a very good chance it's now engulfed in green flame.

Also fits as Fire X Ice.

Depends on how the show handles it.

Martin's said that the sword was passed onto Tommen, so it's likely not in the sept. Leaving it there would've been a massive waste.

 

[Black_Sun]

I'd agree with that, he is a lesser Robb Stark, but Sansa is even less. All she did was accept the service of a man who intends to use her, she wrote a letter to accept that offer, that's all she did, it won the battle, that is certain, but it did not require any effort from her. Jon united the north and the wildlings against the Boltons, fought in the battle himself and killed Ramsay Bolton. I don't see who else they should pick as their leader? And that's if you ignore the white walkers completely, which is not what I think the north does, even if they have no proof, yet.

Jon didn't unite the North against the Boltons though. Half the North sat it out and most of the other half fought for the Boltons. Jon united the Wildlings and a couple hundred Northmen to fight for him.

And Jon lost the battle until the save unless he's convincing everyone that LF was part of his plan.

Nitpick but Sansa killed Ramsay.

Like I think they tried too hard to make it a copy of Robb's scene when it should've been more of an argument about who the real heir is with some holding out for Bran, some for Sansa and others for Jon and maybe even a northern lord or two that puts themselves forward. It would've made for a great parallel to the kingsmoot.

 

[Red Arremer]

Did I miss something with the kid luring the sparrow to the wildfire?

It seemed like a careful thought out part of the plan, making sure to be seen, taking him right to the stuff, stabbing him in a way to immobilize his legs but not kill him.
All that effort to... rub it in?

I felt like it was specifically orchestrated by Cersei to humiliate Lancel.
He had bedded her, but he also had sleighted her various times after. I feel like showing him the cause of the demise of his brothers and the High Sparrow, as he tries to pick her up from the Red Keep for her trial - as he had done before - is indeed there to rub it in.

 

[Anton Sugar]

it's that the mountain can actually take his helmet off.

I still maintain that Zombie Gregor was pretty frumpy. They needed more moments where they actually show *why* he should be feared (like ripping that sparrow's head off) instead of just having him hulk around. Dude looked like Baymax sometimes.

I saw the brightened pics of his de-helmed head and he looks pretty goofy there--he's got this weird crooked smirk going on, looks like he's half-smiling. Björnsson is great, physically, but he's no Conan Stevens.

 

[kirblar]

Depends on how the show handles it.

Martin's said that the sword was passed onto Tommen, so it's likely not in the sept. Leaving it there would've been a massive waste.

On the show it was buried with Joffrey.

 

[Randdalf]

Well if anything epitomised the clueless plotting and writing this season it was blowing up half the cast of King's Landing.

"Promise me Ned" was good, although I don't really understand how that's ever going to be a big thing in the actual main plot. Do Bran and Meera just turn up at Winterfell and are like "bruh you're a Targaryen?"

King of the North was hype, but it did feel a little like recycling the show's greatest hits.

Liam Cunningham really felt like he meant it when he was raging at Melisandre.

Arya's sudden arrival at the Twins felt somewhat gratuitous. Also, I thought she wasn't a Faceless man? Or is she? I find it beyond belief that she cooked up the Freys into a pie. To add insult to injury, Wyman Manderley turns up in this episode, the canonical baker of the pie.

Don't get me wrong, I like complaining, but I also like Game of Thrones. It's very entertaining and unpredictable, but it does get on my nerves what's happening in the show now they're unshackled from the books.

 

[FootballFan]

My episode 10 rating - Excellent 9/10
Overall Season 6 rating - Good 7/10, much improved from the terrible season that was season 5 (Hardhome not withstanding)

The first 20 minutes were amazing, who directed this episode and does he/she direct other shows?

 

[Speevy]

He knows that Howland Reed witnessed it

What if the handmaiden grew up to be Gramsey Bolton?

 

[Massa]

If Bran was already safely near the wall it seems pretty likely he'll meet up with Jon very early in season 7, no?

 

[Iksenpets]

What if the handmaiden grew up to be Gramsey Bolton?

Man, Gramsey Bolton was my favorite stupid fan theory. Bring back Gramsey.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

My episode 10 rating - Excellent 9/10
Overall Season 6 rating - Good 7/10, much improved from the terrible season that was season 5 (Hardhome not withstanding)

The first 20 minutes were amazing, who directed this episode and does he/she direct other shows?

The same guy that did Hardhome and episode 9 of this season

 

[Moff]

Like I think they tried too hard to make it a copy of Robb's scene when it should've been more of an argument about who the real heir is with some holding out for Bran, some for Sansa and others for Jon and maybe even a northern lord or two that puts themselves forward. It would've made for a great parallel to the kingsmoot.

it really doesnt matter anymore who the real heir is, because the old order, the old legitimacy is gone for good.
as I said, it's the same with dany. after Roberts death no one in King's Landing thought they should give her a call, that's gone.
It's a new rule now. they do want a stark, yes. that name still pulls a great weight in the north, but they'll take the best Stark they can get, and that's not Sansa, not Arya and not Bran. Jon is really the obvious choice here. It really didn't bother me at all, especially considering both Jon and Sansa didn't really want it anyway. But the north chose Jon because he is the best choice, because as I asked and you didn't answer, who would make more sense? Do you really see them voting Sansa? There was no use for a kingsmoot scene. Jon did a lot more than Sansa.

 

[hydruxo]

Arya seems a bit pointless now. Who's left on her list, the Mountain? Cersei? She doesn't get to kill Cersei. The Hound? And It's not like Walter Frey ever mattered after the Red Wedding. Plus, they probably can't do the mask gimmik again without it getting tiresome/repetitive. Just kill her off please, no one really buys this badass assassin nonsense. She would have required a time jump spanning at least half a decade of training to make it remotey believeable, and even then Maisie Williams just can't sell it

You know what, as much as I love Arya as a character, I tend to agree with you. There's not a whole lot left for her to do other than meeting up with Jon/Sansa. It'll be interesting to see where they take her arc from here.

 

[Heckler456]

Has it been pointed out how "the prince who was promised" seems to nicely gel with the "promise me Ned" thing? I'm sure it has, seems obvious.

 

[Anton Sugar]

You know what, as much as I love Arya as a character, I tend to agree with you. There's not a whole lot left for her to do other than meeting up with Jon/Sansa. It'll be interesting to see where they take her arc from here.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they basically put LSH's "arc" (or, rather, plot) onto Arya.

Has it been pointed out how "the prince who was promised" seems to nicely gel with the "promise me Ned" thing? I'm sure it has, seems obvious.

Yeah, thought about that last night, too. Just hearing her say it made it click.

 

[Kuroyume]

You know what's sadder about Arya. Like, did she become a better assassin by going to Bravos? The show covered one assassinnation (without the mask) and another attempted assassination without it. She also killed what's his name from the Kingsguard and the waif, but I don't feel like she learned much of anything there. When did she learn how to change her face? The book will obviously do a 10000x better job of her story there, but the show dropped the ball when they didn't need to.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Oh, I remembered Jon 'forgiving' Melisandre. Fuck that, she should be hanged.

 

[Kard8p3]

He was facing multiple armored opponents with a weighted practice stick. GRRM is very fond of pointing out that armor is a major advantage in a fight.

Also to be fair IIRC he put up waaaaaaaaay more of a fight in the books. Pretty sure he broke some arm/noses. In the show he kind just knocked some peeps on the head.

Oh, I remembered Jon 'forgiving' Melisandre. Fuck that, she should be hanged.

That's probably his way of thanking her for saving him, letting her live.

 

[Heckler456]

Oh, I remembered Jon 'forgiving' Melisandre. Fuck that, she should be hanged.

Yeah. It seemed like a contrivance for the reason of them still needing her next season. That being said though, on the whole, they've been pretty good with that kind of stuff. So I'm choosing to believe that either he doesn't believe him capable of meting out justice anymore (especially seeing as he might relate because of him hanging Olly), or he feels like he owes her for resurrecting him. Actually, writing this out, the former kinda makes sense.

 

[Speevy]

In a shocking twist, Bran sneezes, causing Ned to drop Jon Snow and ensuring he'll always know nothing.

 

[Cromat]

Oh, I remembered Jon 'forgiving' Melisandre. Fuck that, she should be hanged.

"Ride south, advance the plot with The Hound"