Dash_Riprock
Member
Why are people shocked Trystan was a King's Landing? Did they not see the establishing shot that had the ship in the same rocky harbor?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
- Status
Oldest Snake
Member
Can we just acknowledge Theon dragging Sansa through that freezing river to throw off the dogs and then immediately being found by the dogs in the next scene? Some good puppers those Boltons have.
I don't know if they're shocked that he's in King's Landing, rather they're confused as to how the Sand Snakes are on that boat with him after they watched him leave in season 5.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Can we just acknowledge Theon dragging Sansa through that freezing river to throw off the dogs and then immediately being found by the dogs in the next scene? Some good puppers those Boltons have.
I don't know if they're shocked that he's in King's Landing, rather they're confused as to how the Sand Snakes are on that boat with him after they watched him leave in season 5.
I've given up trying to justify travel speed on this show ever since Littlefinger's shenanigans in season 2.
From bad pussy to "We've come to kill you" I'd say "Ugglrrghgh" (sound of Hotah dying)
The best puppers, they even managed to teleport away to save themselves when Brienne found them.
Can we just acknowledge Theon dragging Sansa through that freezing river to throw off the dogs and then immediately being found by the dogs in the next scene? Some good puppers those Boltons have.
Oh come on. It's not like Theon and Sansa went miles downriver inside the river.
They crossed it.
There are footprints in the snow where they went in.
And there are footprints on the other side.
You don't even need dogs for that.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Did they cut a scene of Bronn letting the sand snakes onto the boat or something?
BrassDragon
Member
Even though they show oaths of fealty, I sincerely believe D&D and the writers don't understand how the feudal system and vassalage works or think their viewers can't handle it.
They deliberately depict all the rulers as autocratic tyrants, as if people just blindly follow whoever claims a title. It undermines a big part of what makes the setting so fascinating in the first place (like Jamie bemoaning how all his loyalties and oaths contradict each other or Littlefinger twisting the system for his own benefit)
Oldest Snake
Member
Sorry, I didn't really make this clear in my first post. My point was what purpose did the scene serve when it's immediately rendered a useless gesture in the next scene? Whatever tension there was supposed to be in the scene is gone a second later when the exact thing Theon said wouldn't happen happens. It's cheap and pointless.
I could maybe understand using it show Theon's willingness to help Sansa escape, but then he offers to sacrifice himself when the soldiers do catch up to him in the next scene so again there's no point to it. Look, I don't hate the scene and think it's the worst thing ever, it's just the set up of it being to escape the dogs immediately followed by the dogs finding them made it stand out to me.
Yep, yep, yep. I'm currently reading Dunk&Egg and it gives you more insight into that particular matter. Like, how lords follow big rulers for a big number of reasons not just because they say so. Also the importance of marriages and alliances is not even mentioned in the show, whereas it's crucial to the politics in the Seven kingdoms (and Essos for that matter).
Pyramid head
Banned
The bad pussies killed him. Bronn is dead now.
Legitimately would not be shocked for something like that to come out of the show at this point.
Red Arremer
Member
Because it's not "a character", it's "4 characters", and this group, while they are bastards, have received formal education. As such, even brutish Obara should be aware of the political dynamics, let alone Tyene, Nym and Ellaria who are supposed to be smart.
As somebody pointed out before, the entire Dorne plot feels like D&D only read the very first Arianne chapter and decided to make a silly parody of what Arianne thought would happen when she decided to crown and support Myrcella, what with Dorne all uniting behind her and overthrowing Doran etc., but make it actually happen.
But we already have evidence of the Snakes not having any consequences for murdering the Martells. Did you not see how the guards in the water garden didn't even do anything as their prince, his personal bodyguard and the maester were murdered right in front of their eyes? What about the people on the boat with Trystane? They must've been in on it too, or else they would immediately arrest the 2 Snakes there.
As such, you already have evidence of Dorne completely supporting the assassination of the Martells. And I guarantee you, the political fallout that should happen will not happen. All of Dorne will be behind the Snakes.
Is it really not bad writing, though? I mean, I just brought up the books here because they clearly contradict some stuff the Snakes do in the show, but even if you completely ignore the books and look at this coup from a neutral standpoint, there is no way in which the Snakes should get away with what they have done.
Let's disregard the Dornish political dynamics from the book. There still are noble houses as I already established, who are sworn to House Martell. Again, we don't know whom exactly takes what position, but really, there are only 3 positions they can take towards the Martells:
- They can be loyal to Doran, then they definitely would not support Ellaria.
- They can be rivaled to Doran, and might even support the Snakes. But there is no reason they would follow those bastards any further than killing off the Martells. Because why should they follow these bastards, the lover and daughters of their rival's brother?
- They can be neutral in the political situation. In that case, they wouldn't support Ellaria either way, because why should they?
Again, with bastards not being legitimate even in Dorne, unless the Snakes have a proper noble to take up the throne of Sunspear, they have absolutely no claim, and even if they should have forged alliances with Doran's rivals in order to stage the coup, at this point, not a single Dornish house should follow them.
So I pose the question: Is it really not bad writing if the writers completely disregard any sort of consequence for the characters acting stupidly? Because I bring up again the soldiers in the Water Garden and the sailors on Trystane's ship. They clearly had to be supportive of the coup. They clearly are going to follow the Snakes. This is obvious evidence.
As I mentioned before, then why even bother adding in this mess of a whole story arc, cast the characters, shoot at expensive locations? The entire Dornish plot lead to pretty much nothing. Dorne had been in open opposition to the Baratheon kings since the start, so really, it wouldn't have been much of a stretch to have them rise up against Tommen after Oberyn was killed by the Mountain. They could've easily killed off Myrcella in another way or off-screen, and not have this entire mess piss all over the show and make it objectively worse.
Because let's be honest here, the only 2 things that this story arc accomplished was Myrcella getting killed, which again could've been done off-screen or in some other way, and Dorne rising up against the Lannisters, which could've easily been established off-screen; they already were antagonizing the Baratheons for Elia Martell's murder during the sack of King's Landing, and having Oberyn Martell killed brutally by the Mountain - the man who also murdered Elia and her children - caused them to rise up openly. Have it sent in a message. Done. No need of the filler shit, the abysmally casted Sand Snakes, the awfully written dialogue and the murder of the Dornish liege lords which should be clear evidence that the Snakes got lobotomized.
Red Arremer
Member
The part that makes him loyal to the Night's Watch, probably. That sense of duty he has towards his brothers.
But that's not him, it's a contract he signed. It's invalidated anyway since he died. He only signed that contract because he wanted to protect the living from the dead. Maybe that's what died, and now he just wants revenge. But that's more of a LSH thing, so I'm not sure. And I'm not sure he can rally up others just so he can get his own revenge.
Red Arremer
Member
If Jon was revived and still the same as he was before, then I think he would still feel the honourbound duty to stay with the Night's Watch, even though technically his oath is over. But I believe that with the revival, he'll lose part of that honourable sense of duty, and generally part of his honourableness. He'll become more centered on himself and will try to protect what he holds dear, rather than what his duty tells him to.
I also believe he'll be a bit more of a lonewolf.
I also believe he'll be a bit more of a lonewolf.
Pun intended
I'm still slightly on the fence about the character of Jon and all that
R+L=J
But that's because I have my own slightly crazy theory R =/= J
I'm thinking he will lose the ability to give a fuck and will go directly to Winterfell while rounding up the remnants of Stannis' army without paying no mind to the Watch. Let's hope the 20 good men are not around when he gets there...
That's a good theory! His honor was what was holding him back. I think protecting the living from the dead will still be important to him but the place, to protect what he holds dear as opposed to duty, as you point out.
He will lose his childish/boyish side of him "Aemon: Kill the boy Jon Snow and let the man be born". He will stop giving a fuck and will do everything he can against the Boltons and WW.
We're a greedy bitch, you know that?
His good natured earnestness will likely fade a bit.
Red Arremer
Member
I know right? I find it so difficult to differentiate them, and only can pick out Ellaria because she's a bit older. I don't even know who was with Obara on the boat, and I only could identify Obara because she was holding a spear.
Moff
Member
He will rise as Jon Stark, the heir to winterfell, and he intends to take back what belongs to him, while kicking ass and taking names
He's not the heir to Winterfell in the show, as there's no will.
Since I wasn't paying attention to the credits on first watch, the billing for this year (in this episode):
1. Peter Dinklage
2. Nicolaj Coster-Waldau
3. Lena Headey (Lannisters uber alles)
4. Emilia Clarke
5. Kit Harington (he's totally dead, you guys)
6. Liam Cunningham
7. Carice Van Houten
8. Natalie Dormer
9. Indira Varma
10. Sophie Turner (moving up in the world, getting individual billing for the first time)
11. Maisie Williams & Conleth Hill (Maisie, on the other hand, still stuck with joint billing; her agent must not be as good)
12. Alfie Allen & Gwendoline Christie
13. Jonathan Pryce & Michiel Huisman (Pryce is our first new regular of the season, potentially the only one)
14. Michael McElhatton & Iwan Rheon (fitting pairing)
15. with Iain Glen
In the books there is a big chance that Robb legitimized Jon as the next king of the north before he died at the wedding. If this is also in the show, he will not just have a claim to be the king in the north, but if R+L=J is true and Rhaegar and Lyanna got married, he will also have a better claim to the throne than Dany.
When Jon rises he will be like "I got all dem claims ya'll!!!"
Which it's not. Robb did not make a will in the show, and indeed, the show removed the entire context in which he made that will (he didn't know about Sansa's marriage, he wasn't convinced Bran and Rickon were dead, and he was expecting a baby with Talisa).
Dusk Soldier
Member
Can we just acknowledge Theon dragging Sansa through that freezing river to throw off the dogs and then immediately being found by the dogs in the next scene? Some good puppers those Boltons have.
I don't know if they're shocked that he's in King's Landing, rather they're confused as to how the Sand Snakes are on that boat with him after they watched him leave in season 5.
Wading through rivers doesn't actually fool hounds. It's just a popular TV thing.
EDIT:
It explained why they were sitting around huddling/shivering when the hounds found them, rather than still running.
toastyToast
Member
Theon has a TV?
Ganzlinger
Member
This actually makes sense in this context. lol
Ftfy
Bronn will be pissed when he finds out the only Sand Snake that stayed in Dorne was the one that clearly wanted to have sex with him.
bengraven
Member
I think I can see where the show is going to catch up with the books. No, I know, they're "beyond" the books, but I can see where some of the storylines are aiming for the book versions.
Sand Snakes - going to Kings Landing in place of Arianne
Euron - going to Mereen to bail out Dany now that her ships are burned
Brienne - (trailer with Pod/speculation I've read that may be based on reports but I'm not sure)
Her pussy is bad BECAUSE her hair grows so fast.
You need a machete for that Myrish swamp.
Sand Snakes - going to Kings Landing in place of Arianne
Euron - going to Mereen to bail out Dany now that her ships are burned
Brienne - (trailer with Pod/speculation I've read that may be based on reports but I'm not sure)
going to riverlands
Her pussy is bad BECAUSE her hair grows so fast.
You need a machete for that Myrish swamp.
Blue Ninja
Member
If that means she takes the place of Quentyn, I'm all for it.
No notable change at all.
Ressurrection doesn't come cost-free for the person being rezzed. Aemon foreshadowed what would happen with his "kill the boy" speech.
Steelyuhas
Member
The HBO schedule doesn't actually list who's credited for each episode, it's just the full list cast members.
ToyMachine228
Member
In the show, I just think we'll see him be slightly less forgiving and more aggressive. His personality won't change drastically. It's his personality that makes show watchers love him. And really, I think the changes will be natural for someone who was literally murdered by the order he swore his life to and was endlessly working to do right for. His shift will have more to do with that than his resurrection.
Cornballer
Member
- EW interview with Isaac Hempstead-Wright
Onion A|V Club's Polite Fight video feature takes on Game of Thrones:
- How Game Of Thrones’ expertly edited fight scenes stir our emotions
Onion A|V Club's Polite Fight video feature takes on Game of Thrones:
- How Game Of Thrones’ expertly edited fight scenes stir our emotions
What personality?!! It's more his role in the story, I'd say.
Arianne isn't going to King's Landing in the books, she's headed to the Stormlands to meet fAegon.
In the book, Doran sends Lady Nym and Tyene to King's Landing with Myrcella -- the former to sit on the Small Council, the latter to go undercover and get close to the High Sparrow. Obara is off hunting for Darkstar.
In the show, Nym and Obara are in KL (the former clearly not taking a seat on the Small Council), while Tyene is presently back in Dorne. Possibly she'll join the others now that they're done wiping out House Martell and all three will be in the revenge game.
Camp Freddie
Member
My guess is that the wildlings will turn up to rescue Davos and the 'good' watchmen.
They will then burn John Snow's body, with his Valyrian sword.
Snow will rise from the ashes, with his sword aflame, confirming him as Azhor Azai.
No resurrection by priests is necessary.
The next few episodes will have Mel and Sam referencing a bit more of the prophecy to foreshadow it.
They will then burn John Snow's body, with his Valyrian sword.
Snow will rise from the ashes, with his sword aflame, confirming him as Azhor Azai.
No resurrection by priests is necessary.
The next few episodes will have Mel and Sam referencing a bit more of the prophecy to foreshadow it.
I'm almost certainly wrong
This only applies to the "last kiss" (R'hllor resurrection).
In the books, Jon will likely warg into Ghost and he'll be mentally preserved as a result. So even if he's resurrected with the last kiss, he'll simply jump back into his now live body no worse for wear with his memories intact. In the show he is not a warg, but he isn't going to suddenly become more of an asshole. Beric was the same guy, he merely lost more and more of his memories each time. Lady Stoneheart is the way she is because she went mad right before she died, and she already had the personality for someone who'd go on a revenge spree for those she loved.
- Status