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[Forkball]

Yeah, people in these threads get all worked up for the weirdest things. "Only Cat", some snow castle I don't even remember....Tower of Joy was a few paragraphs of nothing.

Good god man, Tower of Joy is one of the most pivotal moments in the entire series. While we don't know the exact details of the battle, we can guess that it will basically reveal Jon's parentage, and also the Legend of Howland Reed and his possible warg abilities.

Great episode all around. Although it's the second episode, it seemed like it did a better job of introducing major plotlines for this season in comparison to last week. Each scene had some great performances, especially the heart to heart between Jaime and High Sparrow. Finally Jaime gets to actually do something after doing DIDDLY SQUAT for a year. Though where the hell is Bronn? I also loved the flashback via Bran. They actually managed to highlight Lyanna as well, dun dun dunnnn. Euron basically just showed up to say all his famous lines. A bit hamfisted for book readers since he just started to spout them off in the span of two minutes but it was a good introduction to the character. Though you gotta wonder why that bridge is so rickety. Also it looks like they are doing the Kingsmoot after all. Not Asha even mentioned the pinecones. THE PINECONES.

Yes... the worst part was Ramsay of course. Roose is by far a more interesting and compelling villain. While I think it's likely that Ramsay will kill off Roose in the books, hopefully it's not done in such a stupid way.

 

[X-Frame]

Did they replace the actor for the Three Eyed Raven? Because I could've sworn it was some dude who looked incredibly frail, with long hair and branches piercing his body or something.

 

[Violet_0]

Would you have preferred Jon be dead? Don't understand the anger. How about a camel comes flying from the sky to kill the nk? Unpredictable

yes, deader than dead, very dead. Here's my rewrite of this episode - Meli attempts to resurrect Jon, nothing happens, well off on the pyre with him. Looks like The North needs another savior now. Meanwhile, Ramsay tries to stab Roose but Roose retaliates and kills Joffrey, sorry I mean Ramsay, taking over his role as the current main antagonist and simultaneously removing a dreadfully bad character from the show

 

[cartoon_soldier]

yes, deader than dead, very dead. Here's my rewrite of this episode - Meli attempts to resurrect Jon, nothing happens, well off on the pyre with him. Looks like The North needs another savior now. Meanwhile, Ramsay tries to stab Roose but Roose retaliates and kills Joffrey, sorry I mean Ramsay, taking over his role as the current main antagonist and simultaneously removing a dreadfully bad character from the show

Umm...Jon is sort of important to this whole ice and fire thing.

 

[rando14]

Umm...Jon is sort of important to this whole ice and fire thing.

lol um yeah, the ENTIRE story falls apart without him,,,

 

[dsp]

Umm...Jon is sort of important to this whole ice and fire thing.

It's almost as if he embodies ice and fire, given his likely heritage.

Violet, are you a book reader?

 

[SpaceWolf]

Did they replace the actor for the Three Eyed Raven? Because I could've sworn it was some dude who looked incredibly frail, with long hair and branches piercing his body or something.

They changed the actor.

At this point, Game of Thrones has recast more characters than most long-running soap operas. It's getting really irritating.

 

[Forkball]

Did they replace the actor for the Three Eyed Raven? Because I could've sworn it was some dude who looked incredibly frail, with long hair and branches piercing his body or something.

They did. Here are comparison shots:

I think the new guy looks older.

I was hoping Jon would be resurrected on the pyre. They burn his body, everyone starts walking away, THEN HE RISES AND HE'S ON FIRE AND HE LEAVES FLAMING FOOTSTEPS IN THE SNOW HIS HAIR IS UNTOUCHED BY THE FLAMES HOLY SHIT AZOR AHAI REBORN

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

yes, deader than dead, very dead. Here's my rewrite of this episode - Meli attempts to resurrect Jon, nothing happens, well off on the pyre with him. Looks like The North needs another savior now. Meanwhile, Ramsay tries to stab Roose but Roose retaliates and kills Joffrey, sorry I mean Ramsay, taking over his role as the current main antagonist and simultaneously removing a dreadfully bad character from the show

Never mind Jon's greater importance in the story and all the character development and build up that would have went wasted.
Who's going to oppose Roose? Sansa ?
Her character has been set up as a potential diplomat and schemer not a general.Does she rally the northern houses and then let's Davos and Mel (and Littlefinger?) take the north for her while she sits in the back and eat lemon cakes?

 

[Haribi]

Why does Davos care so much about Jon? Why does he care so much whether he is dead or not that he would swallow his pride and ask the red woman for help?

 

[Violet_0]

It's almost as if he embodies ice and fire, given his likely heritage.

Violet, are you a book reader?

yes
I don't care if Jon is the chosen one, that plot thread is super dull to me. I, like everyone else, knew that Jon would be resurrected, doesn't mean I have to like it. I just disagree with the opinion that Jon being alive is necessary to tell the story properly

Never mind Jon's greater importance in the story and all the character development and build up that would have went wasted.
Who's going to oppose Roose? Sansa ?
Her character has been set up as a potential diplomat and schemer not a general.Does she rally the northern houses and then let's Davos and Mel (and Littlefinger?) take the north for her while she sits in the back and eat lemon cakes?

I don't think it would matter all that much if Roose or Ramsay sits in Winterfell. Theon and Sansa obviously have every reasons to kill Ramsay, Roose is responsible for the deaths of Catelyn and Rob which is also a strong motive for revenge

 

[SpaceHorror]

Out of all the recasting they have done, I can't really complain about bringing in fucking Max von Sydow.

And hey, will a recasting in this show ever be as bad as season 2 Gregor Clegane?

 

[Dmax3901]

Man this episode was messy.

Killing Jon then bringing him back literally two episodes later. Not only that but it happens just after Melisandre's like it might be possible but I don't know how oh wait yes I do nailed it. Why even kill him off? There has to be reason to do so and bring him back but why so soon? We barely got to ponder what his death might mean for the situation at the wall then he's back? Really curious to see how it's all handled in the books.

Roose Bolton getting killed out of nowhere. Deaths of big characters used to have weight in this show. Shock value was always there but they used to take their time with it. This just makes me wonder why Ramsay didn't make his move at any other point in the last season or so? Or the Sand Snakes for that matter.

I get the writers have to strike out on their own now but it really just seems so transparent. Dorne? Going nowhere, scrap it. Roose? Nah, Ramsay's our new ridiculously over the top evil dude. Jon Snow? People love him, bring him back.

 

[elrechazado]

Out of all the recasting they have done, I can't really complain about bringing in fucking Max von Sydow.

And hey, will a recasting in this show ever be as bad as season 2 Gregor Clegane?

Grizzled middle aged hound's older brother turns into 20 year old? No problem!

 

[Enosh]

yes
I don't care if Jon is the chosen one, that plot thread is super dull to me. I, like everyone else, knew that Jon would be resurrected, doesn't mean I have to like it. I just disagree with the opinion that Jon being alive is necessary to tell the story properly

I mean I can kinda get that, I don't agree with it but I get it, for a fantasy series that's widely perceived as going against most fantasy tropes having a main chosen one character like Jon seems to be can be annoying to some people

edit. but the end result can still be widely different so idk if we can judge that plot line until it's played out

 

[Drazgul]

Did they replace the actor for the Three Eyed Raven? Because I could've sworn it was some dude who looked incredibly frail, with long hair and branches piercing his body or something.

I don't mind the recast (Max von Sydow is always great) but couldn't they have given him a wig and a fake beard? The clean-shaven, close-cropped hair look looks dumb on someone who's been sitting on a tree for decades.

 

[Moff]

Out of all the recasting they have done, I can't really complain about bringing in fucking Max von Sydow.

And hey, will a recasting in this show ever be as bad as season 2 Gregor Clegane?

The Mountain is still my biggest pet peeve with this show, they completely failed him.
well the duel against oberyn was still incredible, but with more and better mountain in season 2 and 3 it would have been even better.
but robert strong seems alright, it's not still the same strongman from season 4, is it?

 

[Santiako]

Out of all the recasting they have done, I can't really complain about bringing in fucking Max von Sydow.

And hey, will a recasting in this show ever be as bad as season 2 Gregor Clegane?

The last mountain is huge and looks the part, but he's waaaaaay too young.

 

[woodchuck]

Yeah, I thought jon's revival was rushed too. Davos just randomly comes in and says "yo, let's try to bring him back". There was no build up to it.

I was hoping instead that during the burning of his body, he is resurrected.

 

[Forkball]

Why does Davos care so much about Jon? Why does he care so much whether he is dead or not that he would swallow his pride and ask the red woman for help?

What else is he going to do? The man he dedicated his life to serving is dead. He obvious respected Jon, as did Stannis. It makes sense for him to want to aid Jon in some way. Though the execution was a bit clunky. "So... can you like, use your magic or something?" In the books, Mel is probably going to be rubbing her hands just waiting to try and resurrect Jon. I can understand Davos having some respect or understanding for Mel since both were devoted to Stannis, though I would also think he might blame her for his eventual downfall. Who knows.

I get the writers have to strike out on their own now but it really just seems so transparent. Dorne? Going nowhere, scrap it. Roose? Nah, Ramsay's our new ridiculously over the top evil dude. Jon Snow? People love him, bring him back.

Well I don't think Jon coming back is some show-only idea. He is clearly going to be resurrected in the books as well. Many assume this to be so he can have some loophole to get out of the Night's Watch and do bigger and better things, but there will also probably be greater ramifications as well.

 

[SpaceHorror]

The Mountain is still my biggest pet peeve with this show, they completely failed him.
well the duel against oberyn was still incredible, but with more and better mountain in season 2 and 3 it would have been even better.
but robert strong seems alright, it's not still the same strongman from season 4, is it?

It is still the same guy as far as I know.

But yeah, Season 1 Mountain will always be the best for me. Dude was exactly how I imagined The Mountain That Rides in both looks and personality.

 

[Dmax3901]

Well I don't think Jon coming back is some show-only idea. He is clearly going to be resurrected in the books as well. Many assume this to be so he can have some loophole to get out of the Night's Watch and do bigger and better things, but there will also probably be greater ramifications as well.

If it's done like this in the book I will be very surprised. Zombie Catlyn and Zombie Jon just rolling around the North?

....

Actually that sounds pretty cool.

 

[cubicle47b]

That's awesome.

 

[axb2013]

Man this episode was messy.

Killing Jon then bringing him back literally two episodes later. Not only that but it happens just after Melisandre's like it might be possible but I don't know how oh wait yes I do nailed it. Why even kill him off? There has to be reason to do so and bring him back but why so soon? We barely got to ponder what his death might mean for the situation at the wall then he's back? Really curious to see how it's all handled in the books.

Roose Bolton getting killed out of nowhere. Deaths of big characters used to have weight in this show. Shock value was always there but they used to take their time with it. This just makes me wonder why Ramsay didn't make his move at any other point in the last season or so? Or the Sand Snakes for that matter.

I get the writers have to strike out on their own now but it really just seems so transparent. Dorne? Going nowhere, scrap it. Roose? Nah, Ramsay's our new ridiculously over the top evil dude. Jon Snow? People love him, bring him back.

Two episodes and an entire offseason. They couldn't pull off death/resurrection within a few weeks. Yes, the release from NW is important but that's not the primary reason he is killed off. Kill the boy and let TPTWP be born is the primary here.


Roose's death didn't strike me as out of nowhere. Think of their past actions and events, Roose is just as evil, less psychotic and more calculated but just as evil nonetheless. Once Roose's child was revealed to be a boy, it was just a matter of time when Roose would take him out. The only difference IMO between Roose and Ramsay, if their roles were reversed is that Roose would let Walda live if she had a daughter while I am convinced Ramsay would have taken them out even if his status weren't threatened. To put it in modern terms, both Roose and Ramsay will cut you off on the highway and cause you to have a fatal accident, the only difference is that Ramsay will roll down the window and give you the finger, while Roose would just drive off. Roose is the better strategist, Ramsay is the better tactician.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Out of all the recasting they have done, I can't really complain about bringing in fucking Max von Sydow.

And hey, will a recasting in this show ever be as bad as season 2 Gregor Clegane?

For me? Certainly.

Spoiler

I'm really not a fan of Emilia Clarke as an actress.

 

[duckroll]

I'm almost disappointed that Mel didn't remove her robe, get on the table, and mount Jon's corpse to bring it back to life. All in all, it was a bit too subtle and restrained for Game of Thrones.

 

[Forkball]

Two episodes and an entire offseason. They couldn't pull off death/resurrection within a few weeks.

GRRM has made us wait five years for Jon's rebirth. Truly a master of suspense.

 

[Apt101]

"If you want to help him, leave him be".

Hmm.

 

[SpaceHorror]

I mean I can kinda get that, I don't agree with it but I get it, for a fantasy series that's widely perceived as going against most fantasy tropes having a main chosen one character like Jon seems to be can be annoying to some people

edit. but the end result can still be widely different so idk if we can judge that plot line until it's played out

GRRM has gone out of his way to point out that prophecies are messy, unpredictable things so I doubt it's going to be straightforward with Jon Snow, at least in the books.

Yes, I think his song is the "Song of Ice and Fire" and all that, but I don't expect it to play out anywhere near the standard fantasy "chosen one" trope.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Just finished watching it, I think it was probably one of my favorite episodes. It was tons of characters development crammed into a single episode. The central theme seemed to be people coming to terms with various failures in their lives--Tommen apologizing to his mother for being weak/soft, Theon apologizing to Sansa for betraying the Starks, Thorne realizing he will be remembered as the man who lost Castle Black, and Davos kind of praising Mel for the fact that she was usually right and her power was real. But then there's Ramsey being Ramsey, and it definitely appears that Ramsey is charging headfirst into his own demise. Personally, I can't wait for that. Oh and that whole Jon Snow thing is pretty nice.

Pro's:
+ Lord Commander Jaime seems a lot more serious than he used to be.
+ Wildlings know how to fuck some shit up.
+ Let it (Jon) Snow.
+ Tyrion wins Essos Darwin Award.
+ Ramsey seems much more careless and unhinged than he was last season.

Con's:
- Not a real good look at Euron.
- Davos pleading with Mel seemed very desperate.
- Ramsey is charging headfirst into a Bolton-Chipper.
- Bran looks to be twice his presumed age at this point.

Factoring stuff from the book it definitely appears like they are starting to take the path of least resistance to finish storylines.

 

[matrix-cat]

In the final episode, when Ramsay takes his seat upon the Iron Throne, turns to look directly into the camera and says "The Aristocrats", we will all finally see the brilliance of Benioff and Weiss.

 

[Arkeband]

Did they replace the actor for the Three Eyed Raven? Because I could've sworn it was some dude who looked incredibly frail, with long hair and branches piercing his body or something.

They seem to give zero fucks about casting people properly who aren't heavily featured in particular story arcs, so we knew Max von Sydow was going to be the new Bloodraven for this season, but it looks like they also recast and re-designed Leaf, too.

It's pretty jarring and it would be great if they re-shot/edited scenes for the Blu-Ray releases so at least there's some visual continuity there, but whatever.

Why does Davos care so much about Jon? Why does he care so much whether he is dead or not that he would swallow his pride and ask the red woman for help?

Bad writing. Davos shouldn't know about the link between R'hllor and resurrection. He just brings it up out of nowhere.

There's no good explanation for this one, it was purely to move the story forward.

 

[Pyramid head]

fucking Ramsey. Way to predictable. Roose was a much better character, yet he's too stupid to guess that Ramsey was obviously going to try to kill him

fuck Jon Snow, too. Absolutely everyone knew this would happen

Show Roose caught the same brain death virus as a lot of other show characters it seems. His actions came across as suicide by deliberately goading your psychotic son into killing you.

 

[ryseing]

Why does Davos care so much about Jon? Why does he care so much whether he is dead or not that he would swallow his pride and ask the red woman for help?

Davos is looking for someone or something to believe in, and the up and coming LC that his dead liege believed in seems like a good fit.

Too many anti-climatic deaths this season. I think they're going for shock value, but that just doesn't work as well six seasons in. We know all their tricks.

I don't think it's shock value. They're just trying to eliminate the unnecessary pieces, which is fine, but could have been handled a bit more deftly.

 

[Branduil]

I like how regicide now has zero consequences in this show besides just making you king. Why don't people just murder the kings every day?

I'm almost disappointed that Mel didn't remove her robe, get on the table, and mount Jon's corpse to bring it back to life. All in all, it was a bit too subtle and restrained for Game of Thrones.

I'll be honest I was almost expecting that to happen.

 

[Morts]

Davos is looking for someone or something to believe in, and the up and coming LC that his dead liege believed in seems like a good fit.

Does Davos actually know that Stannis is dead yet? Meli took off before the battle last season.

 

[Bananajama]

If they'd have waited any longer to try and resurrect him he would likely have turned into a corpse walker I bet.

The timing makes sense to me

 

[ryseing]

Does Davos actually know that Stannis is dead yet? Meli took off before the battle last season.

I could have sworn Melisandre gave him a nod or something when he asked.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I'm enjoying the season so far, but I hope they slow the deaths down a bit.

Doran/Areo/Trystane/Roose/Balon when characters get killed off this fast it loses the emotional impact.
I've got a feeling though D & D are simply trimming the fat and getting straight to the endgame. In that case I'm ok with it.

This is exactly what's happening. They're killing off characters they don't know how to deal with and Assembling the Avengers for the big battle over Westros.

 

[Chase17]

Does Davos actually know that Stannis is dead yet? Meli took off before the battle last season.

Pretty sure he knows. Although he has yet to find out how the princess died (if he ever does).

 

[Hankodank]

In the final episode, when Ramsay takes his seat upon the Iron Throne, turns to look directly into the camera and says "The Aristocrats", we will all finally see the brilliance of Benioff and Weiss.

bonus would be if he added the finger snaps when he said it...

 

[Morts]

Pretty sure he knows. Although he has yet to find out how the princess died (if he ever does).

I could've sworn it was the opposite, where Mel gave him a look when he asked about Shireen but even she wouldn't have known about Stannis at that point.

 

[duckroll]

I like how regicide now has zero consequences in this show besides just making you king. Why don't people just murder the kings every day?

But... they do?

 

[Chase17]

I could've sworn it was the opposite, where Mel gave him a look when he asked about Shireen but even she wouldn't have known about Stannis at that point.

You are right about the look about Shireen being dead. But he doesn't know that Stannis/Mel ended up burning her alive.

I'm going with Mel somehow knows about Stannis death (which her bailing on him kind of implied that it was a lost cause) and Davos inferring from her return to Castle Black

 

[Branduil]

But... they do?

Touche.

I guess the real question at this point is why anyone actually wants to win the game of thrones.

 

[SpaceHorror]

Only thing that disappointed me about the resurrection was that Mel didn't perform the Last Kiss. I saw a leaked picture, which was obviously fake, that suggested it would happen, but alas.

I can't remember, did Thoros perform it back in Season 3?

 

[Fuzzy]

I'm almost disappointed that Mel didn't remove her robe, get on the table, and mount Jon's corpse to bring it back to life. All in all, it was a bit too subtle and restrained for Game of Thrones.

You joke but I really did think that's how she would do it.

 

[toastyToast]

Did they replace the actor for the Three Eyed Raven? Because I could've sworn it was some dude who looked incredibly frail, with long hair and branches piercing his body or something.

First thing I thought was, "What is Barristan doing in that tree?"

 

[Nodnol]

Rewatching Ramsey's scenes, there are some subtleties that show a big depth to him other than just the big bad evil, who's really evil, and does evil things.

Like, when he stabs Roose, he looks away, and doesn't look into his eyes. There's a reluctance to enjoy it. Had Ramsey just been Ramsey, he would have had his top off and smeared the blood of his father over his chest like war paint. We all know he's a sociopath, but I'd be inclined to think he does feel something, at least in that moment anyway.

 

[bengraven]

Original Three Eyed Raven looked like he was going to teach Bran kung fu.