Yeah, I really like this character right now. Has been steadily and consistently built up through the seasons and it's going to be interesting and earned wherever he ends up. Dude's about to blow some shit up.
Nothing feels earned on the show. The show is so concerned with moving the plot forward it ignores characterization, explanation, and suspense. Seriously annoyed but how sloppy the scenes with Jon, Roose, and Ramsey were handled. Especially because the first half of the episode was great! It's like one person wrote those scenes, someone else complained they were boring, and then injected shocks and twists in the second half. I'm just bummed out.
I'd love to see them go an episode without killing anyone. It's just lazy and predictable now.
Truth. There is a rushed sloppiness to it that feels like it is prioritizing a sense of sensationalism over storytelling.
There are still a few good scenes per episode but I expect better by now.
Balons death in the books was almost treated as a footnote, but it was framed by the leeches and that made it chilling. His bro that looks twenty years younger than him tossing him over the edge so matter of factly has zero drama to it. Literally felt like a checklist.
Yeah it's funny how Balon's death literally had no weight to it in this episode because it was so isolated from everything and we barely know those characters at this point.
I think her last great scene was when she killed the masters to claim the unsullied. It's been years of drudgery. Same with Arya. Shame because I really like those characters.
The resurrection worked for me. Everything running up to it was desperation. Loyalist Black Brothers turned to Tormund, Davos turned to Mel, Mel confessed self-doubt. All these things were basically beyond the pale. Even the magic incantation ends up being a desperate, defeated "please". It all underlines why Jon is worth bringing back, shows how lost everyone is without him, can't even keep up their old animosities and facades.
Anyway Jon's death was totally non-credible in the first place. If nobody believes the death, why draw out the resurrection? No possible way to put real drama there, at least not for me.
I think her last great scene was when she killed the masters to claim the unsullied. It's been years of drudgery. Same with Arya. Shame because I really like those characters.
Well, Dany is really insufferable in the books as well. I at least like Arya in the books, but yeah, they haven't done too well with her on the show, especially once she got to Braavos. There's some good stuff with her in the book there but they just haven't really pulled it off.
I know it's petty, and would look ridiculous on television, but this is supposed to be a world where nobody wears black except the men who wear the black. Isn't Roose supposed to be dressed in pink, of all colors?
I imagine we wouldn't know until some time after the final books have been published, but I would be fascinated to know if the show moving beyond the books winds up changing things that would have happened.
The impression I got from that scene (and Cersei's reaction after) was that Cersei did actually remember him from the flashing, and sent the mountain to wreck him.
I imagine Show Euron is going to meld his and Victarion's stories, so a bit of both? I doubt the show will give him Victarion's octopus helm; they already got rid of Euron's eyepatch. Or is Yara going to take VIctarion's arc?
Yes, I did read the books. When the show gave a fleet to Dany it was pretty obvious that they were done with the Ironborn arc, that's why is weird that they suddenly decide to burn the fleet and bring this arc back, is like they changed their mind during last season (probably they need something to make the show longer because is so succesful).
Are we even sure there will be Umbers? D&D never add a new character when a previous one can just do it instead. I bet the Karstarks have RIckon and turn him over as part of their new friendship.
Yeah, could have sworn some little interview, or rumor, that kind of implied the actor didn't quite like where the story was going, and people took it to mean something like this was happening (and did).
I think this episode is the beginning of Ramsey's fall, he's getting incredibly rash at the expense of his house's campaigns. I think it's pretty telling that the last conversation he has with Roose is one where Roose casually explains that his plan makes zero tactical/political sense in the long term. If Ramsay falls, that's how it's going to happen. He killed the one person who'd keep his ass alive based on everything Roose has been talking about in the past two episodes.
Why would they split up Theon and Sansa? Those two interacting was my favorite part of the season. It doesn't make any sense that he would want to go home. What does he plan on doing there? He should absolutely never leave Sansa's side until she's safely with Jon and then accept his beheading.
Now he may be as useless as Jaime was in Dorne. Or worse, Ramsay will capture him again.
How will he get to the Iron Islands anyway? Will he swim? What a dumb idea to go there. (Maybe he'll go back to Ramsay and say "Winterfell is my home")
Aside from that, I liked everything else. Good episode. But the Theon/Sansa storyline was the one I felt most strongly about.
After years of jealously guarding book secrets for all my TV watching friends. My reward is having to watch the show butcher the story I've been waiting for. Because even if I chose not to watch the show, everything would be spoiled for me.
One look at my twitter feed tonight reminded me that I am a prisoner of this show now. Fuck.
Maybe if GURM hadn't sat around doing nothing for 10 years this wouldn't be a problem, but he got lazy and stopped writing after 3 books and then sold the rights to an incomplete mess and got even lazier.
At this point the books are irrelevant because there's almost no chance they ever get finished. Even if you somehow believe he is writing at the same pace as he did for ADwD (a laughable assertion) then the math says he won't be done until 2018 at the earliest. The TV show will be done and the story will be over.
You're the saltiest thing ever, and I once ate a bowl of salt. That lazy fat fuck should have put off and aside all his success until he could hand you a story all wrapped in a bow.
Even if GRRM had finished TWOW before this season, the show was always going to finish first. Unless you expect him to write a book of similar length in 18 months, which would mean you know even less about writing than you already seem to.
this the most antipicated scene in years, I hope they'lll do ist justice, somehow I doubt it, but at least we know there is already a little original dialogue
1. Night's Watch stuff was good, especially Wun Wun killing the archer. I wish Thorne and Olly had gotten theirs too instead of just being carted off to prison. I did like the touch of Olly taking a charge at Tormund, though.
2. Bummed to lose Roose, though it needed to happen to set up the Bastardbowl. Karstarks reaction was kind of baffling though? Like why was he just down for it? Are he and Ramsay friends or something? If so, they should have, like, showed that.
3. Balon/Euron scene was good, though I have to imagine kind of confusing for non-book readers. Euron basically read off every single one of his books lines in rapid succession. Also, change "Ib to Asshai" to "Oldtown to Qarth" definitely seems to set up Euron's involvement in the Oldtown plot.
4. I am kind of bummed Asha got her pinecones and rocks line now, just because it forecloses on the possibility of her dropping that during the moot.
5. I liked Tyrion giving his dragon story from the books directly to the dragons.
6. This season so far is all about great lords being murdered at random. Doran randomly shanked. Roose randomly shanked. Balon randomly thrown off a bridge by a character we've never even met before.
7. Sansa and Theon was really sweet.
8. Flashback was well-handled. Set up Lyanna well. Also seems to confirm that something terrible happened to Hodor. Wonder what it'll be.
Preview:
Tower of Joy! With the real dialogue! And Umber is totally handing Rickon over. They better have a damn good explanation for why that is happening. Their stuff this week with Karstark does not give me hope.
2. Bummed to lose Roose, though it needed to happen to set up the Bastardbowl. Karstarks reaction was kind of baffling though? Like why was he just down for it? Are he and Ramsay friends or something? If so, they should have, like, showed that. [/spoiler]
Yeah they didn't imply that at all. Like if they had had him and Ramsay just mention being childhood friends or something I think it would have been improved a lot.
I guess we knew Jon was more than likely coming back from the dead, but now having really seen it, I'm thinking that means there's no way in hell we get LSH, right?
Maybe if D&D were to lay some groundwork and just show a mysterious hooded woman hanging, torturing, and killing Freys over the course of the season, followed by a pullback of her hood and reveal at the end, it could work?
You're the saltiest thing ever, and I once ate a bowl of salt. That lazy fat fuck should have put off and aside all his success until he could hand you a story all wrapped in a bow.
Even if GRRM had finished TWOW before this season, the show was always going to finish first. Unless you expect him to write a book of similar length in 18 months, which would mean you know even less about writing than you already seem to.
I'm not salty at all. I'm glad that we are finally getting a proper conclusion to this series, because if GURM hadn't sold it to HBO the best we would've gotten is a 5 minute recap of how he would've done it at a con 20 years from now.
What I'm sick of are people who act like George is infallible or that D&D are some how horrible for finishing an unfinished piece of fiction that the author himself gave them the rights to finish.
I get it, George wrote the books as his response to being outed from fame and fortune in Hollywood and now that he got his, he doesn't care anymore. I don't begrudge him that. He's pretty much stopped hiding the fact that he's not writing so I can't even fault him for leading people on anymore.
I find it funny that people levy criticisms at the show that you could just as easily say about books 4a and 4b, but I suppose as with anything there are nutjobs who won't acknowledge any flaw in the source or its creator.
Well, regardless, that looks way better. Usually, I much prefer Star Trek-esque makeup and prosthetics over iffy CG for fantastical races. I'm curious if we'll see their civilization if there's supposed more of them.
I guess we knew Jon was more than likely coming back from the dead, but now having really seen it, I'm thinking that means there's no way in hell we get LSH, right?
Maybe if D&D were to lay some groundwork and just show a mysterious hooded woman hanging, torturing, and killing Freys over the course of the season, followed by a pullback of her hood and reveal at the end, it could work?
Episode was pretty good, although I will definitely miss Roose as a character and actor. Loved that guy.
How fucked is Ramsay btw? He can't go north and now he'll probably can't go south either with the Freys there. Unless they buy his poisoned scheme. He also has no heir, no other family. His death will be end of the Bolton house I guess.
That episode gave me so many feels. The ending got me hype as fuck for whats to come. I have no idea whats about to happen considering we are past most content from the books so I anticipate every episode greatly.
Side note though: Fuck Olly and I yearn for his death more than anything. Such a piece of shit
Yeah they didn't imply that at all. Like if they had had him and Ramsay just mention being childhood friends or something I think it would have been improved a lot.
I mean it was clear he approved, but there was zero indication of why he approved.
It's in the conversation immediately preceding Roose's death. Ramsay wants to march on Castle Black to kill Sansa and Jon. Roose doesn't. Karstark wants the Starks killed, as vengeance for his father and to solidify the new regime's power in the north. So he sides with Ramsay.
I still think it's crazy how much CGI they used to achieve the old look and somehow still have her come out looking like a regular human. A different human, but still looking like they could have just cast an actress who looked that way to begin with.
So we'll have the Bastardbowl and the Cleganebowl in the same season? For when the Snakebowl (wishful thinking of the SS and Ellaria killing each other while badpunning and us forgetting they ever existed)?
Better than another character coming back from the dead right now. And Freys need to get some comeuppance some kind of way. For the fans at least; the show and all the characters on it seem to have forgotten all about them.
It implied he was on board with Ramsay killing him, but implying he was aware of Ramsay's intentions beforehand? I didn't get that at all.
I don't really know how they'd imply that without dialogue anyway, to be fair.
I don't really think it matters anyway.
On the subject of Lady Sansaheart, do we think she's going to take that character's role through Brienne or is she going to the Riverlands to oversee the hangings herself? The Battle of Bastards seems inevitable at this point and from the trailers it appears Sansa is present.
Maybe Littlefinger taught her his secret to teleportation?
They seriously stepped up their game from the awful stuff in Bran's story from the season 4 finale. Everything about that seemed like a high school play.
Yeah he was a great cast. It's hard to see how we trust him now, but I do hope the character sticks around. Every leader needs a loyal opposition... but one that *murdered him* might be a bit much...
Thinking about the timing, here is what they should have done for the resurrection in my opinion:
Have 2 scenes going at the same time. Bran to the Tower of Joy. Jon not being raised then about to be burned. Bran finds out Jon Snow isn't Ned's child but a Stark and Targaryn. Switch over to Jon's eyes opening in the flames and walking out of the fire unscathed.
EDIT - That's assuming Bran finds this out next episode. Missed a chance for it to be more suspenseful in my opinion.
I'm not sure why people are so enamoured with LSH. To me she always felt like an unimportant time filer, and at best she was foreshadowing the journey of another character.
I think the reason the show has been so blood thirsty early on this season is that there are only 2 seasons ( roughly 20 episodes left) and they have to get to the end game very quickly. So while GRRM has 5-10 thousand pages left roughly to tell his story the show has to be confcise and get to the point. It also has to be a lot more streamlined.
I actually really liked this episode except for "Ramsey is so evil and shocking" but they really need to stop having Tyrion make completely out of place jokes about Varys not having a "cock." Tyrion is clever enough to know when something is funny and when it's played out. Modern-day Tyrion (I guess GRRM) wouldn't still be rickrolling people and excitedly yelling "I'm Rick James, bitch!" every time he drinks.
For all the problems I have work the show, Karstark going along with Ramsey isn't one of them. The Karstarks betrayed the Starks along with the Boltons at the Red Wedding. All the people that hate the Boltons hate them too, so they are stuck together.
When the show gave a fleet to Dany it was pretty obvious that they were done with the Ironborn arc, that's why is weird that they suddenly decide to burn the fleet and bring this arc back, is like they changed their mind during last season (probably they need something to make the show longer because is so succesful).
When was the last time the show even referenced the Greyjoys before this season? I honestly can't remember. I thought it was kind of funny when Balon and Yara were talking about the Ironborn fighting in Deepwood Mott and losing ground in their other battles on the land, because it's been so long since I've even heard someone on the show refer to the Ironborn, much less actually see them on screen.
"H-hey guys! We've actually been here the whole time! Doing stuff! Really!"
But yeah, it was a really strange decision to include the Ironborn and all the brotherly intrigue and Kingsmoot drama this late in the game. The Meereen fleet stuff is just plain dumb because, as you said, they already gave Daenerys a fleet of ships in a previous season, and randomly burning it in order to create a foothold for the Ironborn plot is just contrived.
I did enjoy finally seeing Balon fall off the bridge though, even though it should have happened like 2 seasons ago when the audience still remembered who he was.
Thinking about the timing, here is what they should have done for the resurrection in my opinion:
Have 2 scenes going at the same time. Bran to the Tower of Joy. Jon not being raised then about to be burned. Bran finds out Jon Snow isn't Ned's child but a Stark and Targaryn. Switch over to Jon's eyes opening in the flames and walking out of the fire unscathed.
EDIT - That's assuming Bran finds this out next episode. Missed a chance for it to be more suspenseful in my opinion.
They better have a damn good explanation for why that is happening. Their stuff this week with Karstark does not give me hope.
