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[timetokill]

Quick question: Resurrection from the Red God requires a sacrifice or exchange like with Dondarrion yeah?
So with Snow... who dies or this is entirely a "miracle"

Spoiler

or soul transfer shit :/

?

They sacrificed Jon's gorgeous flowing locks

I'm loving this theory that Hodor could warg into Lyannas horse and that's what messed up his mind and he is part horse, lol

Hahahaha that would be too funny

 

[kirblar]

Quick question: Resurrection from the Red God requires a sacrifice or exchange like with Dondarrion yeah?

So with Snow... who dies or this is entirely a "miracle"

Spoiler

or soul transfer shit :/

?

The Starks can all warg, but on the show they appear to be leaving out Jon/Arya (at least for now.)

When Jon dies, he jumps to Ghost, which is why he wakes up when Ghost does.

This is why there was nothing special that needed to be done other than some magic to restore the body.

 

[Monocle]

The younger millers boy was his bastard son.

Damn, really?

 

[Gigglepoo]

Damn, really?

It's just an awesome theory. Very plausible (Theon did sleep with the millers wife) though something we'll likely never get an answer to.

 

[Kozak]

Quick question: Resurrection from the Red God requires a sacrifice or exchange like with Dondarrion yeah?

So with Snow... who dies or this is entirely a "miracle"

Spoiler

or soul transfer shit :/

?

Not exactly. Dondarion was resurrected multiple times with no sacrifices or exchange's. When Lady Stoneheart was revived, I think Dondarion literally gave her his life, or something like that. Also the way Jon was revived was different than Thoros's.

Ya they did make it seem like Dondarion literally gave her his life. Like swapping the ability to reanimate.

My assumption is that after you resurrect one person, you can't another as it would be hard to lose all hope again.

I imagine Melisendre won't need to do so much to revive Jon again if he should die again but she won't be able to resurrect others.

 

[Monocle]

It's just an awesome theory. Very plausible (Theon did sleep with the millers wife) though something we'll likely never get an answer to.

Oh, I like it. That would be a nice little detail that adds another twisted layer to Theon's betrayal.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

The Starks can all warg, but on the show they appear to be leaving out Jon/Arya (at least for now.)

When Jon dies, he jumps to Ghost, which is why he wakes up when Ghost does.

This is why there was nothing special that needed to be done other than some magic to restore the body.

The way they did it I am still hoping for that explanation next episode.

 

[demosthenes]

Ya they did make it seem like Dondarion literally gave her his life. Like swapping the ability to reanimate.

My assumption is that after you resurrect one person, you can't another as it would be hard to lose all hope again.

I imagine Melisendre won't need to do so much to revive Jon again if he should die again but she won't be able to resurrect others.

I thought it was because she had been dead for 3 to 4 days.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I thought it was because she had been dead for 3 to 4 days.

There was definitely an emphasis on Ghost last two episodes and clearly showing Ghost moving/waking up before Jon did.

 

[Apt101]

Regardless of whether the resurrection affected his humanity/soul or not I think Jon is definitely going to be a changed person. Other than his friends that are loyal to him he likely won't give a damn about the people in the Nights Watch. He's going to be all about 'the mission' to stop the White Walkers and the Nights Watch are incapable of mounting an effective resistance to them. He's going to force the Northern houses to unite behind him.

The Night's Watch has been a bit of a farce from the start of the show. They know they don't have the numbers to stop any real threat but they man the Wall anyways, killing desperate Wildlings who are only that way because of the Night's Watch. The southern lords barely send provisions and support, and aside from the Starks, the north isn't much better. And everyone realizes this, yet they keep it all going out of tradition. Eddard even lopped off a deserter's head despite knowing the man barely escaped death from a group of wizard ice revenants and that he would have faced certain death had he remained at the Wall.

I think the resurrected Jon will accept all of that and campaign in the north that all people have to fight, that the Night's Watch is done and hasn't been there to actually protect them for hundreds of years anyway. I expect he'll be more forceful in his pleads for help. I don't think he's going to go full Stannis Baratheon on us, but I think he's going to transition from a character that was devoted to the Black to a kind of saviour. I also expect him to stop giving any kind of shit about tradition, that he's a bastard, etc.

Edit: on Euron, I think he's being introduced to serve as a kind of chaotic element to fill certain power vacuums, and also provide a threat to the Seven Kingdoms for people to battle until Winter comes. Because I don't think there's much of a chance Ramsay is sticking around for much longer, and his entire story will probably live and die in the north.

 

[Kain]

For some reason I like the fact that the people from the NW think their purpose is to stop the wildlings from entering the Seven kingdoms and that everyone and their mothers forgot it was to stop the Ice walkers in the first place.

It gives Jon's fight more flavour because he has to deal with the IW AND his brothers.

Also it shows that the people from the Watch are really idiotic in general as they've seen first hand the zombies and still don't want to let the wildlings pass. I know all have friends and family who have died at the hands of the free people, but zombies, man, zombies. It makes no sense to deny these poor people entrance to the North.

Poor Jon, he's dealing with zombies and fools.

 

[Aiii]

For some reason I like the fact that the people from the NW think their purpose is to stop the wildlings from entering the Seven kingdoms and that everyone and their mothers forgot it was to stop the Ice walkers in the first place.

Considering they build the wall 8000 years ago for that purpose, long before well recorded history, not really that surprising.

 

[Kozak]

I thought it was because she had been dead for 3 to 4 days.

So you mean you think Beric is inside Catelyn's body? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

I had initially played with that idea but Catelyn knew her betrayers, acknowledged them right? Unless I'm remembering incorrectly.

Wish we had more on LSH. Such a great start to her story.

There was definitely an emphasis on Ghost last two episodes and clearly showing Ghost moving/waking up before Jon did.

Maybe for us book readers but I can't imagine show watchers thought much of it except that Ghost was upset.

Would love if it was that way tho.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

For some reason I like the fact that the people from the NW think their purpose is to stop the wildlings from entering the Seven kingdoms and that everyone and their mothers forgot it was to stop the Ice walkers in the first place.

It gives Jon's fight more flavour because he has to deal with the IW AND his brothers.

Also it shows that the people from the Watch are really idiotic in general as they've seen first hand the zombies and still don't want to let the wildlings pass. I know all have friends and family who have died at the hands of the free people, but zombies, man, zombies. It makes no sense to deny these poor people entrance to the North.

Poor Jon, he's dealing with zombies and fools.

I know the night's watch brothers can come across as faceless and interchangeable, but the only members that actually saw the army of the dead are the handful that went with John to Hardholme last season.

Everyone else has just been sitting at the wall. Which was very recently attacked by a massive army of widlings.

What they did to John was dumb, since there was no real way they were going to get away with it, but it's still makes sense why they would do it from their point of view.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Spoiler

Who is that dual wielding

in the trailer for next week?

 

[Steeven]

Spoiler

Who is that dual wielding

in the trailer for next week?

Spoiler

Probably Ser Arthur Dayne, one of the Kingsguard.

 

[Kain]

I know the night's watch brothers can come across as faceless and interchangeable, but the only members that actually saw the army of the dead are the handful that went with John to Hardholme last season.

Everyone else has just been sitting at the wall. Which was very recently attacked by a massive army of widlings.

What they did to John was dumb, since there was no real way they were going to get away with it, but it's still makes sense why they would do it from their point of view.

What about the two that tried to kill Mormont? That happened in the show too, right?

 

[Rodhull]

I know the night's watch brothers can come across as faceless and interchangeable, but the only members that actually saw the army of the dead are the handful that went with John to Hardholme last season.

Everyone else has just been sitting at the wall. Which was very recently attacked by a massive army of widlings.

What they did to John was dumb, since there was no real way they were going to get away with it, but it's still makes sense why they would do it from their point of view.

Were there many survivors left from the great ranging with commander Mormont? They would have fought against white walkers and/or wights. Along with anyone that saw the one that attacked Commander Mormont in season 1.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I guess we could chock that up to the writing of the character, but I enjoy that Ramsay is more of a force of nature compared to Joffrey. There are people as broken and sadistic as Ramsay, so I don't see him as a cartoon villain.

I think that because TV Ramsay is more a force of nature than a character, that makes him a lot less interesting. I think part of it is that we never really get any reaction from many characters to most of the vile stuff that Ramsay is doing. Reek would be the one example but even then most of that reaction is coming from Roose. It's been a while since I read the books but I feel like there all of Ramsay's nasty acts were kept much more secretive by Roose because even just the Bolton history of flaying their enemies was kind of viewed negatively by most Northerners at present time.

Compare that with Joffrey who had tons of people reacting to him doing all his screwed up stuff in the show but basically dealing with it since he was king. Plus, you had Joffrey always being physically weak and then just lashing out with his temper. Joffrey showed some actual human weakness there that was sort of relatable. TV Ramsay just seems to go off the deep end in brutal torture, murder and rape with no remorse and yet he's also shown to be physically gifted enough to kill a bunch of armored up warriors while he's running around shirtless. And then you've got his 20 Good Men. He feels like an evil Mary Sue.

I don't doubt there are real life people as broken and sadistic as TV Ramsay. But just the way TV Ramsay is presented makes him very one note and boring past a certain point. The people around him barely react to his sadism. Maybe that changes if we get some kind of Northern Conspiracy brewing against him and we see people rebel against him because he is so openly messed up. Openly killing a mother and her child by way of dog mauling can't be a very quiet or quick death so I'd think some people in the Winterfell courtyard probably heard that.

I don't know. I love Ramsay. He's insufferably evil, but we all know he's going to get his comeuppance. I bet even he expects it deep down, so he's taking out as many people as he can before that happens. He's nuts.

I recall loving to hate Ramsay in the books a lot more than the show. The show version just seems so absolutely evil. There is no shade of gray with him- he's basically just the devil- he has zero redeeming qualities or personality quirks that make him interesting to me as a character. He just rapes, murders and does whatever he pleases with no consequences. The only character that sort of humanized him or sort of kept him in place was Roose and well, he's dead now.

 

[Faddy]

What about the two that tried to kill Mormont? That happened in the show too, right?

First that isn't an army and second how many of the Watch saw them since Jon flamed them to death.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

There was definitely an emphasis on Ghost last two episodes and clearly showing Ghost moving/waking up before Jon did.

If you watch the "Inside the Episode" for E2, D&D make it pretty clear that Ghost is just sensing Jon returning to the land of the living due to the special bond the direwolves have with their master. I wouldn't be expecting the whole warging thing in the show.

 

[mantidor]

I've been slowly catching up on this thread (I haven't seen the new episodes, and just finished Season 5 about a weekend ago), and I noticed some people not liking that Ramsay hasn't taken any losses, and is just steam-rolling his way through characters we like.

But I have to ask, what kind of loss would actually affect Ramsay? I mean, he's a sociopath for sure. He only cares about himself, so what, outside of his imminent demise would really affect him in any meaningful way? Him losing his claim to the North would, but he eliminated the biggest threat this past episode (his father, and his baby brother). Outside of that, what does Ramsay care about enough that losing it would be a "fuck yeah, suck it, Ramsay!" moment of catharsis for viewers? I personally can't think of anything. I guess we could chock that up to the writing of the character, but I enjoy that Ramsay is more of a force of nature compared to Joffrey. There are people as broken and sadistic as Ramsay, so I don't see him as a cartoon villain. He really seemed to have only wanted two things: legitimacy in the eyes of his father, and then a means to exert his power over more people. He's achieved both, and when that was threatened, he did was a psycho like him would do, and kill his father, step mother, and brother.

I don't know. I love Ramsay. He's insufferably evil, but we all know he's going to get his comeuppance. I bet even he expects it deep down, so he's taking out as many people as he can before that happens. He's nuts.

This show/series make people pay for their mistakes. Ned, Robb, Jaime, Cersei, really, everyone. Ramsay has been nothing but a little ball of rage, brute and unintelligent, yet he keeps being the luckiest guy in Westeros, everything goes his way and the worst he keeps gathering allies for some bizarre reason. He has suffered zero consequences for his actions, and that is just dumb in this story.

We got the "act like a mad dog and you'll be put down like a mad dog" foreshadowing, and the northern conspiracy seems to be appearing this season, but it's just too little to late at this point, he's comeuppance will feel hollow because he's been literally invincible, and not out of his cunning the way Roose and Tywin were.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Ramsay was insulated from consequences because of Roose. Now that he's gone Ramsay is on his own, or in other words he's screwed.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Honestly I love Ramsay as a character, yes he's one note and sadistic, but he has changed over the years...honestly when was the last time he's smiled or joked around at all? He was a gleeful psycho during Seasons 3 and 4, while in 5 he seems to lose that now that he has to deal with his father...all of the joy of the kill has gone out of him as can be seen in him killing Roose and barely be able to look on as the dogs kill and tear apart Walda and the baby. He's grown...but in a very interesting way. He's matured and become a leader. I think it will be interesting to see his reaction to the gift he receives next episode. It will become interesting if instead of torture...there is something else, maybe a taking under his wing?

Spoilers for the rumored gift:

Spoiler

It has been said that Rickon is wild, and who better to train him than Ramsay? He can fight shirtless, has the best 20 good men in the kingdom and the best hounds in the world. Also him later being killed by Ramsay, would make it more heartbreaking, especially if Rickon looks up to him, and Ramsay kind of treats me as a little brother.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Ramsay looks like an evil Hobbit.

 

[Steelyuhas]

If you watch the "Inside the Episode" for E2, D&D make it pretty clear that Ghost is just sensing Jon returning to the land of the living due to the special bond the direwolves have with their master. I wouldn't be expecting the whole warging thing in the show.

Yeah I'd bet it remains as subtext. It would probably feel odd (and unnecessary) for Jon to be like "yeah, I was living in my wolf, so it was pretty chill. Thanks for bringing back my body though!"

 

[Kilrogg]

Ramsay looks like an evil Hobbit.

My voice acting teacher refers to him as "Evil Matt Smith".

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

My voice acting teacher refers to him as "Evil Matt Smith".

I could see that.

 

[boxter432]

This show/series make people pay for their mistakes. Ned, Robb, Jaime, Cersei, really, everyone. Ramsay has been nothing but a little ball of rage, brute and unintelligent, yet he keeps being the luckiest guy in Westeros, everything goes his way and the worst he keeps gathering allies for some bizarre reason. He has suffered zero consequences for his actions, and that is just dumb in this story.

We got the "act like a mad dog and you'll be put down like a mad dog" foreshadowing, and the northern conspiracy seems to be appearing this season, but it's just too little to late at this point, he's comeuppance will feel hollow because he's been literally invincible, and not out of his cunning the way Roose and Tywin were.

but why is it really luck? Roose was doing tons of scheming behind the scenes, Ramsay got the fruits of alot of that labor: living at the dreadfort then being allowed to go get Theon etc... then on his own being skilled and clever enough to toy with Theon with his "escape", taking out Stanni's camp and then commanding the winterfell army to demolish Stannis. but without Roose now to semi-reign him in/avoid terrible decisions (like going to the wall), the end is coming...maybe

 

[Dusk Soldier]

What about the two that tried to kill Mormont? That happened in the show too, right?

Only John and Mormont actually saw it up and moving around though.

Were there many survivors left from the great ranging with commander Mormont? They would have fought against white walkers and/or wights. Along with anyone that saw the one that attacked Commander Mormont in season 1.

Among named characters pretty much just John, Sam and Edd.

Davos looked to have about 6-8 brothers working with him which is a decent amount of the remaining night's watchmen. There can't be more than 50, so that is like 10-15% with him.

The problem was that the senior brothers, (The people in a position of authority like Thorne or Bowen Marsh), were the ones that were left behind to govern the wall, and as such would have never personally encountered the white walkers.

They have no real reason to believe that the White Walkers can get pass the wall, or that they won't get help when the time comes, similar to how Stannis showed up to save them from the wildling army.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Spoiler

Probably Ser Arthur Dayne, one of the Kingsguard.

Spoiler

Shouldn't be Dayne, since Dawn is a greatsword. Maybe one of Ned Stark's soldiers?

 

[Zabka]

Ramsay was insulated from consequences because of Roose. Now that he's gone Ramsay is on his own, or in other words he's screwed.

Yup... I don't know where this idea that Ramsay hasn't been fucking up or had to deal with the consequences of his actions comes from. He treated Sansa like shit, she ran off and fucked up Roose's whole plan for the North. Then Roose has a trueborn son and Ramsay is backed into a corner since he's now replaceable. Now Roose is dead and the Bolton's hold on the North is falling apart.

 

[Finalow]

since I've read that at this point the show is ahead of the books, I'm curious as to how they're writing / processing it.
are they just asking GRRM ''what's next?'' and still follow whatever storyline is going to be in the next book or are they going for a more original route, meaning that whatever we're going to see in the show won't be in the books?

 

[Cornballer]

since I've read that at this point the show is ahead of the books, I'm curious as to how they're writing / processing it.
are they just asking GRRM ''what's next?'' and still follow whatever storyline is going to be in the next book or are they going for a more original route, meaning that whatever we're going to see in the show won't be in the books?

They know how it ends and a few markers along the way, but there will most likely be some significant differences. From a recent Variety interview:

But this season presented perhaps the biggest challenge of all: writing without a safety net. “Now there’s a new kind of pressure of, ‘Can we keep it going even though we’ve gotten past the books?’ Time will tell,” says Benioff.

Benioff and Weiss have long known they were tearing through story faster than Martin could write, so they say they’ve had ample time to prepare for this moment. That first became apparent in a meeting with Martin three years ago in Santa Fe, along with Bryan Cogman, one of the show’s writers.

“We were talking through our schedule and where we thought the series was going, what events would happen in which seasons,” recounts Benioff. “And then we saw the look on George’s face as he realized we were catching up faster, I think, than he had anticipated.”

That triggered a plan not just for this season, but for the very end of the series. The key question: How will their path ultimately compare with Martin’s? “George has always said he’s more of a gardener than an architect,” Weiss says. “He’s not a guy who draws up an elaborate blueprint of what he’s working on and then does paint-by-the-numbers.”

The two say Martin has given them only “vague, distant” landmarks. And then there is the so-called butterfly effect: Characters have taken different paths — and met different fates — on screen than on the page.

 

[mantidor]

but why is it really luck? Roose was doing tons of scheming behind the scenes, Ramsay got the fruits of alot of that labor: living at the dreadfort then being allowed to go get Theon etc... then on his own being skilled and clever enough to toy with Theon with his "escape", taking out Stanni's camp and then commanding the winterfell army to demolish Stannis. but without Roose now to semi-reign him in/avoid terrible decisions (like going to the wall), the end is coming...maybe

The shirtless Ramsay and 20 good men jokes have been run to the ground but if there is any unequivocally proof the writers want Ramsay to prevail against all odds is those two examples.

 

[Rodhull]

Spoiler

Shouldn't be Dayne, since Dawn is a greatsword. Maybe one of Ned Stark's soldiers?

Spoiler

He's in Targaryen/Kingsguard armour though. Neither of the Kingsguard soldiers (only 2 rather than 3 by the looks of it) have a greatsword so looks like Dawn isn't going to be in it.

 

[Maybesew]

Spoiler

Probably Ser Arthur Dayne, one of the Kingsguard.

This is up for debate. It's the guy that speaks his line from the book, but has the wrong weapon. We'll find out Sunday I guess.

 

[Atraveller]

Spoiler

Probably Ser Arthur Dayne, one of the Kingsguard.

Swords of the Morning.

 

[Cornballer]

- Watchers: Game of Thrones Season 6, Episode 2 “Home” Video Roundup

 

[Cornballer]

- Onion A|V Club's Polite Fight for this week

Ramsay Bolton and Looney Tunes, yin and yang of Game Of Thrones violence

We don’t usually discuss Looney Tunes and Game Of Thrones in the same breath. But a funny comment about some of the cartoonish violence in “Home,” this week’s episode of Thrones, finds our hosts doing just that. By the time he’s done talking, John discovers to his dismay that he’s sort of justified that dumb dog-murder scene. John and Gus also debate a thread-pulling moment for Cersei Lannister, and they quarrel over the episode’s much-discussed Jon Snow scene, with Gus wondering why everyone had to leave the room for the big moment.

 

[Iksenpets]

This is up for debate. It's the guy that speaks his line from the book, but has the wrong weapon. We'll find out Sunday I guess.

Either they've rewritten Dayne's weapon(s) of choice, or restructured the scene so Dayne isn't present. First seems way more likely.

Spoiler

Pretty sure all the filming leaks only showed 2 Kingsguard.

since I've read that at this point the show is ahead of the books, I'm curious as to how they're writing / processing it.
are they just asking GRRM ''what's next?'' and still follow whatever storyline is going to be in the next book or are they going for a more original route, meaning that whatever we're going to see in the show won't be in the books?

The relationship between the show and the books is complicated at this point. GRRM has given them a very rough outline of where things are going, that they are in turn very roughly following. We're chronologically past the books, but at the same time the show is doubling back to cover events from older books that previous seasons omitted. Balon's death from last episode and its aftermath is actually a book 3/4 event, for example, and the preview for next episode shows a flashback sequence that was actually delivered all the way back in the first book. And then there are things that are just different, book versus show. At the time of Jon's death in the books, Davos is hundreds of miles away on an entirely unrelated mission. Neither Sansa nor Brienne are anywhere near the North. The girls who murdered Princes Doran and Trystane are actually working for Doran in the books, and have gone to King's Landing on a mission from him. It gets hard to tell what's a spoiler and what's them just building off of one of the non-book situations they've built. The only thing I'm 100% confident of is that Jon gets resurrected in both versions, though the methods may be completely different. I'm sure that list will grow by the end of the season, but for right now every other event in the first two episodes is too closely tied to show changes for me to be confident that they're going to play out the same way in the books.

 

[Cornballer]

- Watchers: New photos from Game of Thrones Season 6, Episode 3 “Oathbreaker” (please spoiler tag discussion and leave the photos behind a link)

 

[biosnake20]

- Watchers: New photos from Game of Thrones Season 6, Episode 3 “Oathbreaker” (please spoiler tag discussion and leave the photos behind a link)

Spoiler

Was Qyburn appointed the new master of whisperers in the show? I don't remember.

 

[Moosichu]

- Watchers: New photos from Game of Thrones Season 6, Episode 3 “Oathbreaker” (please spoiler tag discussion and leave the photos behind a link)

Spoiler

Huh at the three eyed raven walking around, looking good for his age.

 

[Lonestar]

Spoiler

Was Qyburn appointed the new master of whisperers in the show? I don't remember.

Spoiler

yes he was, last season

 

[gspec]

Well, Euron's goal in the books is to bring about The Long Night and he serves a man he just refers to as "him" (maybe the Shrouded Lord?). He's legit bad. Not a guy who gets his giggles out of torture, either, or plays bad. He's evil.

If the show wants a human villain after Ramsey--whose actually interesting!--Euron is the guy.

Yeah, Euron is a bad dude.

This is someone thought on euron. https://madeinmyr.wordpress.com/201...eurons-black-magic-and-potential-dark-powers/

 

[Steelyuhas]

Spoiler

Was Qyburn appointed the new master of whisperers in the show? I don't remember.

Spoiler

Yes, it was the scene when Kevan stormed out and left Kings Landing.

 

[Speevy]

Wait,

Spoiler

does Varys no longer have control of his little birds? If so, would that mean that they're killing for Qyburn, and by extension Cersei? Also, I am really worried about Varys' life. Learning about something seldom yields good things in the show.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Spoiler

Right now, no one wants to see Rickon killed by Ramsey. But if he turns out to be an annoying little kid? We could be wishing for him to disappear pretty quickly.

Yeah, Euron is a bad dude.

This is someone thought on euron. https://madeinmyr.wordpress.com/201...eurons-black-magic-and-potential-dark-powers/

Thanks! I love Euron (and Victarion for that matter). I cannot wait to see where their stories lead in The Winds of Winter.

 

[Iksenpets]

Wait,

Spoiler

does Varys no longer have control of his little birds? If so, would that mean that they're killing for Qyburn, and by extension Cersei? Also, I am really worried about Varys' life. Learning about something seldom yields good things in the show.

Guess:

Spoiler

Qyburn thinks the little birds work for him, but they're still loyal to Varys. Varys has them take him out along with Pycelle and Kevan at the end of the season.