Still can't believe Bryan Cranston didn't win an emmy for season 4 of Breaking Bad.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Still can't believe Bryan Cranston didn't win an emmy for season 4 of Breaking Bad.
Genuinely interested in hearing what those shows are.
Human Trashcan
Banned
recent shows that I would consider better than seasons 5-7 of GoT:
Better Call Saul
Fargo
Halt & Catch Fire
Mr Robot
The Americans
The Leftovers (just finished this year)
Black Sails (same)
Narcos
Mad Men (overlapped with those seasons of GoT so it counts
)that's all i've got for the moment, maybe I overstated my case slightly, but my point is I don't think GoT is nearly consistently good enough to be considered the best TV show running, or even very near the top. The highs are very high, but the lows are VERY low as well. Any of the shows above I'd recommend to pretty much anyone without reservation. Anyway GoT is still a ratings and cultural juggernaut so it's not like my opinion matters
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
They ignore the fact that Season 4 is when the problems started. D&D care less and less about the show each year from the issue of "does it make sense or is it plot-twisty/sounds cool?" I will say Season 5 isn't even that bad. Maybe on the level of Season 2, but for the most part it's done decently and makes sense for most characters. Yes, Dorne was badly written, not because the Sand Snakes were bad characters, but because nothing substantial happens except Myrcella is poisoned by Elleria. If they had killed Doran and Aero Hotah as the season finale instead it would actually make more sense. Although you wonder what Dorne is doing during all of Season 6, since they can now freely attack Kings Landing if they please...I think, that Season 5 is fine though apart from a few plots. It's of course going to be ranked lower than Season 4 because Season 4 has most of the unique twists in turn, even then you still have stuff like Ramsay & Yara. Season 6 has a lot of problems from a writing perspective, but also brings the spectacle to life. The Door, The Battle of the Bastards, and Winds of Winter are all top ten episodes. And now as can be seen, the writing is god-awful, but the Spectacle is a force of nature.
Oh god no.Let's up the stakes. If Winds isn't out by the time season 8 starts, we'll have one thread for the final season. Everyone posts in the No Books thread because that's what we have... no books.
They did Seasons 1-3 quite good actually, but that's because they wanted to show the Red Wedding on screen. Season 4 would be hard to mess up in general. They just aren't good at writing original material, which is why everyone should be suspect about them getting their own show about a major controversial issue.
Game of Thrones can be considered the top show from a budget and spectacle point of view. There is nothing like it on TV. However, I agree with you about most of the shows being better written than Game of Thrones, as well as better acted. And yes to whom-ever said the Emmys weren't crap, just check this years nominations for Best Drama. Stranger Things, This is Us, and House of Cards (Season 5) clearly do not belong on there. Meanwhile they snubbed Orange is the New Black (Season 4), and The Americans.recent shows that I would consider better than seasons 5-7 of GoT:
Better Call Saul
Fargo
Halt & Catch Fire
Mr Robot
The Americans
The Leftovers (just finished this year)
Black Sails (same)
Narcos
Mad Men (overlapped with those seasons of GoT so it counts
that's all i've got for the moment, maybe I overstated my case slightly, but my point is I don't think GoT is nearly consistently good enough to be considered the best TV show running, or even very near the top. The highs are very high, but the lows are VERY low as well. Any of the shows above I'd recommend to pretty much anyone without reservation. Anyway GoT is still a ratings and cultural juggernaut so it's not like my opinion matters
dead souls
Member
Yeah, they were pretty much unaware of The Wire too, that doesn't mean it wasn't the best show of all time.
Even if Game of Thrones was the only show on television it wouldn't be the best one. With 500+ shows coming out a year GoT wouldn't even crack my top 50 (and yes I actually watch that many shows).
They're still catching up on The Wire
I feel like with Game of Thrones critics are so taken away by the scope and "epicness" (probably because this sort of fantasy might be new for non-nerds anyways) that causes such an inflation in acclaim and scores. Just wait, in the coming years as technology and budget for TV shows improves, GoT will not be remembered as fondly- it lacks strength in elements that allows tv shows/films to age well, namely things like (some of) the acting and writing.
secondspace
Member
Look how far behind the show has left the books and consider how rushed the show has become and how many characters and threads have been abandoned. I can't begin to imagine that the next two books could finish the story.
The Artisan
Member
i think their offspring will be the purported azor ahai.
DarkJediKnight
Member
That last season of House of Cards was absolute shit!
Eddard Rhaegar Snow
recent shows that I would consider better than seasons 5-7 of GoT:
Better Call Saul
Fargo
Halt & Catch Fire
Mr Robot
The Americans
The Leftovers (just finished this year)
Black Sails (same)
Narcos
Mad Men (overlapped with those seasons of GoT so it counts
that's all i've got for the moment, maybe I overstated my case slightly, but my point is I don't think GoT is nearly consistently good enough to be considered the best TV show running, or even very near the top. The highs are very high, but the lows are VERY low as well. Any of the shows above I'd recommend to pretty much anyone without reservation. Anyway GoT is still a ratings and cultural juggernaut so it's not like my opinion matters
I don't agree with all of your selections but in some of these cases you're comparing Prestige TV to Game of Thrones
Game of thrones was never as well written or nuanced as Mad Men, it's not even in the same realm
The thing is though, it's doing impressive things with scale, and spectacle, and scope
It's like, if someone asked me to rank my top 10 shows all time, I'd have shows like Mad Men, and The Wire, and Rectify on there, but I think I'd also have GOT, not because it competes with them on a writing level, but because it does so many other things so well.
Show is truck loads of fun and entertainment, even when its dumb
I do agree that history may not favor it. It did arrive at a perfect time in terms of technology, this show could have NEVER existed in the 90's, or even 00's.
That being said it'll always have great characters, and a great foundation of family drama and political intrigue. Time will tell
Human Trashcan
Banned
"Prestige TV" is a meaningless marketing term that has no bearing on the quality of the show. All it means is "expensive drama the network wants to be successful". It's not particularly useful as a descriptor, don't buy into it. There is nothing preventing GoT from having writing on the level of any of those shows. It just doesn't have it. Spectacle and good, thoughtful writing aren't mutually exclusive. Black Sails is also a show with lots of spectacle and action but it still manages to have good, consistent writing. It comes from the same school of though that genre fiction can't possibly compete with "serious" fiction simply because it works with metaphor and spectacle more, and I don't buy into that. There's lots of bad genre fiction, but there's just as much bad "serious"/"prestige" drama. Studios are cranking out those types of show left and right. Most of them don't make it more than a season. Every network wants their own Sopranos/Mad Men/Breaking Bad.
Wait, what was the quote? I haven't heard this before. The Artisan is going to be pissed!
"We are tired of writing this shit. CG whitewalker battle, Starkgaryen baby, Sam closes a book. Fuck it."
Fuck, now I'm not sure if you're joking or not...
John Dunbar
correct about everything
plot twist: gurm gave them a fake ending, they decided to ignore it and come up with their own, accidentally come up with the real ending gurm was planning.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Eddard Rhaegar Albus Severus Snow
Atraveller
Banned
And his is the song of ice and fire and fire
Deadly Joker
Member
Fuck.
Show only, doesn't count.
Eh, doesn't matter. This thread is far more critical than the show only one. So even if you haven't read the books but dislike many of the elements on the show, you'll be far more likely to find common ground here when it comes to
When you have to explain to your incest baby that he's a Korean appetizer.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Just finished the chapter where Wyman Manderly explains his plan to Davos, one of my favorites in FeastDance, if only for "The North remembers". Dude's a legit badass. Would've liked to see him on the show but they probably would've done him dirty like Doran. Of the two though, I prefer Manderly. You gotta love the Frey pie.
Technically he's on the show, but just as another northern lord that didn't take a side of Jon v Ramsey.
Sure, I don't understand why we have two threads now anyway.Let's up the stakes. If Winds isn't out by the time season 8 starts, we'll have one thread for the final season. Everyone posts in the No Books thread because that's what we have... no books.
Because some show only watchers may "some day" read the books...
What's the statute of limitations on spoilers really?
BetterThanNothing
Member
So, have the spirals' connections with the white walkers been explained yet? I don't remember them being mentioned in the books, but we've seen them in the show a couple of times.
Once, was when someone(don't remember who) found body parts strewn about in a spiral formation("They're quite the artists" or something of that nature, said by one of the characters there) and then the spirals all around the cave full of obsidian in markings made by the Children of the Forest and the First Men.
What's up with this? It must hold some significance, right?
Once, was when someone(don't remember who) found body parts strewn about in a spiral formation("They're quite the artists" or something of that nature, said by one of the characters there) and then the spirals all around the cave full of obsidian in markings made by the Children of the Forest and the First Men.
What's up with this? It must hold some significance, right?
Ocarina_117
Banned
http://ew.com/article/2016/03/23/game-thrones-season-6-wont-spoil-books/
A massive shift in tone from season 5 where he said we will be spoiling the books as the show must go on.
Yeah I doubt the vast majority ever will, they seem to hold a strong disdain against the books. It's crazy to me when something a poster may have missed in the show is posted they reply 'uuuuhh is this a book thing?' and que the original poster being shit on.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I don't think Jamie is there yet character wise, but who knows they will probably ultra progress his character.
Because of spoilers and the fact that I don't want to be told my point doesn't matter because the show is past the books.
None.
Most just assume it's learned from the Children of the Forest as part of a common heiritage after the Children created them. We don't know details yet, and that won't be until we spend more time with the Walkers.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I think because show-only watchers think we're all a bunch of Negative Nancies
Moff
Member
that has nothing to do with disdain for the books. it's just super annoying when you watch a show and people point out all the time how different/better it was in the books.
I agree with that, they haven't done anything to deserve to be punished with our presence.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Also I'm going to assume at least one character switches sides to the army of the dead, and I think that will be Arya. Literally went to a cult that said there was only one God and his name was death.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
It's best to keep both discussions separate.
Plus the show and book canon aren't even the same so what's the use in theorising with show-only watchers?
Yep, some are blind to this. GRRM's books however great they are do not make you superior because you've read them.
Plus the show and book canon aren't even the same so what's the use in theorising with show-only watchers?
Yep, some are blind to this. GRRM's books however great they are do not make you superior because you've read them.
Let's up the stakes. If Winds isn't out by the time season 8 starts, we'll have one thread for the final season. Everyone posts in the No Books thread because that's what we have... no books.
I think you're all overreacting about the books never being finished. Sure it might take years but I do believe they will come.
Also I as well as many others have been waiting much longer for Philip Pullman's "Book of Dust" in the "His Dark Materials" series than GRRM's "Winds of Winter" in the ASOIAF series.
For example. The last mainline book in the HDM series was released in 2003. 14 years ago. The side story "Lyra's Oxford" was also released in 2003, 14 years ago. The prequel "Once Upon a Time in the North" was released in 2008, 9 years ago. "The Book of Dust" is now,finally releasing as a trilogy,and the first one is set to release for this October,but the novel was announced all the way back in 2003. 14 years go.
Compare that to the length between mainline books in the "ASOIAF" series. Its been only 6 years since "A Dance With Dragons" So if the "Winds of Winter" releases within 2018-2019 then itll still be a much shorter wait than those of us waiting on HDM books, and it proves that just because something takes ages doesnt mean it'll never be released.
Yeah, let them enjoy the shows without us nitpicking on everything. Best to keep two threads alive.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Book 6 may come, but will the series ever finish? How will GRRM get any of this done?
D&D managed to delete the "Meerenese knot" by cutting out so many things from the books, which has brought problems in the show's narrative.
I still find it incredibly hard to believe that ASOIAF will finish with 6 and 7. Otherwise the pacing has to be increased drastically.
Idk, I think he can't figure out how to get to the end of this behemoth.
Cornballer
Member
New episode tonight:
Those are the two loglines I was able to find, though there doesnt appear to be an official one from HBO in a press release.
What.
I read the trilogy as a child, I loved it and considered it the best books ever before I read ASOIAF 8 years ago ... and you're telling me there's more ???!!
Movie was okayish also
Maybe in 10 years when someone tells me about Winds of Winter I'll have long forgot about it too
probably not thanks to HBO shitton of spinoffs though
John Dunbar
correct about everything
let me guess what will happen beyond the wall based on those loglines:
the fellowship will be attacked by an army of undead and possibly white walkers. who could have foreseen such a "snag"?
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Such a dumb plan
"are we some type of suicide squad!?" - Tormund
hendersonhank
Member
Yeah, I agree completely with all of that. All the additions after book 3 were totally unnecessary. It's exactly what happened with Wheel of Time. I don't know why authors think a story is improved by detailing the plans and thoughts of every faction on the face of the planet even tangentially related to the main events.