UPDATE: Adrian Peterson Suspended Indefinitely, NFL Still A Bunch Of Clowns
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
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If you start hitting him he might understand.
UberTag
Member
Why would you expect them to learn a lesson? Money is at stake, damn it.
Hopefully we'll get to see a good ole-fashioned riot or two break out in New Orleans on Sunday. Perhaps that will prompt a reaction.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Love how you're putting words in my mouth now.
So because I believe AP isn't beating his kid with his hands and giving him a black eye daily, I'm for child abuse?
I'm gonna walk away now. You're actually pissing me off.
It should never be a solution to dealing with unruly children.
The only thing I said, after reading everything that was released on the story, was that child abuse and corporal punishment are two different forms of domestic violence, one much more severe and emotionally traumatizing than the other. AP isn't conducting child abuse but very much entered that grey area when using branches. Nothing more, nothing less.
I don't "condone" child abuse or corporal punishment, but I also don't think that AP is a horrible father either. If anything, he's out of touch with his kids. Being a well known player and one of the biggest talents in the NFL has to conflict with being a good dad and knowing how to raise a kid while living your life out of hotels.
That's all I wanted to say on the matter. Him continuing to play after all of this is in poor taste.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Actually, the research suggests otherwise. A child who receives corporal punishment is more likely to use corporal punishment as a parent himself.
I don't think a grown ass adult who thinks that their fists, much less a tree branch are okay teaching tools can be considered acceptable people.
Exactly. One of the most objectionable traits of our culture that has clung on tooth and nail is a parent's "right" to beat their children in order to instill discipline. It's a barbaric carryover. Spankings are a lessor version of the abuses that were performed on children in the past. There is no excuse to hit children, just as there is no excuse to hit your spouse.
For some reason, people grow up thinking they have a right to physically harm their children because they "own them." Being a parent is an honor and a blessing. People need to learn to guide their children in a way that doesn't coincide with hitting to make up for daily frustrations and annoyance brought on by the duty of raising a child.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Why are you putting condone in quotes?
Adrian Peterson doesn't condone child abuse either - which is why he's trying to use other words to redefine what it is that he did, while simultaneously expressing remorse for having done it.
But words mean things. And what he did was child abuse. I'm fairly certain there are millions of parents over the last 40-50 years who were overall decent people, people who meant well, and wanted to do right by their children, who also abused those same children. Good people can do bad things sometimes.
What's important is that they recognize that bad, and move to correct it. And it's harder to do that when you're too busy trying to put quotes around words to lessen their meaning, or changing terminology so you don't have to carry all the weight of what you've done.
He abused his four year old son. He's an abusive parent. He can BE a better parent, and a better person. But he has to own his shit first. And he's not doing that right now.
ConradCervantes
Banned
Let it out, man. We're here for you.
Because for some reason when you hit children, people begin to act like it's a God-given right to "raise your children" any way they please. I was saddened by the outpouring of support in the NFL for Peterson's actions. Parenting has become like a "religious" topic in terms of the protection it has in general discourse like "you can raise your children anyway you want."
I don't think you should have the right to hit another human being. The laws should still apply to children even if they don't vote and are the most vulnerable members of society.
Thanks, ez.
This is the sad part of this entire thing. It's a cycle that we allow to continue in a world that is often keen on ending these violent cycles of abuse. We see these things going on yet people turn their back on a problem that starts during the most impressionable years of child development.
People wonder why domestic abuse is such a problem. It is nurtured in a world that says it's okay to abuse your children.
I have always believed the victims of domestic abuse were also abused by their parents.
If dad gets mad, hits you to discipline you, then says he did it out of love what do you think a woman will look for in a partner?
Shit is a vicious cycle.
CreepingFear
Member
Actually, studies show that very fact. But then again, who cares about studies when you have your anecdotal tale of being whipped and turning out okay?
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Another problem is that people seem to think that just because child abuse is worse, that corporeal punishment is somehow good in of itself (usually citing personal experience and no academic sources). The former is reasonably understood to be sexual abuse, physical damage such as broken bones, bruises, physical neglect, etc. But the vast majority of parents don't do this anyway. Most parents are hitting, slapping, pushing, shoving, spanking, yelling, etc.
So yes, some studies don't explicitly exclude child abuse, but unless you think there's some secret majority of child abusers who are skewing the statistics when corporeal punishment is studied (and voluntarily including their own abusive bheavior), that's not a huge problem for making reasonable conclusions based on the data they have. Just because you're not horribly abusing your child doesn't mean what you're doing is not harmful. Someone else hitting their child harder doesn't make it okay to hit your child softer.
And besides, other studies do control for the worst kind of abuse:
So yes, some studies don't explicitly exclude child abuse, but unless you think there's some secret majority of child abusers who are skewing the statistics when corporeal punishment is studied (and voluntarily including their own abusive bheavior), that's not a huge problem for making reasonable conclusions based on the data they have. Just because you're not horribly abusing your child doesn't mean what you're doing is not harmful. Someone else hitting their child harder doesn't make it okay to hit your child softer.
And besides, other studies do control for the worst kind of abuse:
That's child abuse.
If you harm your kid like that, it doesn't matter what you're trying to achieve. You're abusing your child, plain and simple.
metalslimer
Member
You know, even forgetting the immorality hitting your kids to get them to be better, I always hear things like there was no other way to get him to stop acting up. I'm sorry if you are too damn lazy to keep trying alternatives you don't deserve to be a parent.
Also the people who say I got beat and I turned out fine don't seem to consider the possibility that they would have been better off without it and learned that beating people doesn't make them a better person. Or it could just be the effects of their abuse being unable to comprehend that idea.
Also the people who say I got beat and I turned out fine don't seem to consider the possibility that they would have been better off without it and learned that beating people doesn't make them a better person. Or it could just be the effects of their abuse being unable to comprehend that idea.
This.
And that's why corporal punishment of children should be made illegal, because that cycle won't end otherwise. People need to be taught that hitting a child is wrong, and having good intentions while doing it or calling it "discipline" doesn't change the fact that it is still abusr.
Many countries already did that. And their children certainly don't turn out worse because of it.
SteveWinwood
Member
lol its mike ditka what do you expect
DragonSworne
Banned
Who would win in a fight, a child name Ditka or Adrian Peterson?
Dude, and it's like a year after he lost a son from the same thing.
timetokill
Banned
Is Adrian Peterson on a Ditka-coached Bears team at the time?
He had a son die from getting whooped with a switch? O.O
HerbertFish
Member
Not a switch as far as i know, but he did die from abuse.
His kid was beaten to death by another man. Not with a switch.
ESPN poll:
Do you agree with the Vikings' decision to reinstate Adrian Peterson?
66%
Yes
34%
No
Seems the general population is insane.
ESPN poll or no, I'm fairly confident as to who will be on the right side of history on this issue.
CreepingFear
Member
I truly believe that there's a better chance of gay marriage being legal in all 50 states than corporal punishment being banned in my lifetime.
Shake Appeal
Member
Worth remembering the United States stands alone with Somalia in not ratifying the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child.
No parent should hit their child. Ever. For any reason. Study after study shows it does more harm than good.
No parent should hit their child. Ever. For any reason. Study after study shows it does more harm than good.
Gay marriage will be legal in all 50 States within 5 years imo.
Next year. Book it. SCOTUS will hear a case this year and issue a ruling in 2015.
Outtrigger888
Member
Wait so spanking a child is frowned upon now?
youngplaya21
Member
I haven't met anyone besides people on GAF that give a shit, to be honest, and I'm part of them. I remember bringing it up at work when briefing my employees, and everyone started moaning and talking about how soft the new PC age has gotten, and they aren't exactly wrong. It DEFINITELY shouldn't be used as a primary form of punishment (don't beat your kid over some damn skittles), but there are some things that a timeout won't fix...
I definitely wish a campaign should be started to spread awareness over other more efficient methods of discipline, though
CreepingFear
Member
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When a timeout doesn't work, then try something else. Abuse (which is what AP did) is not needed.
Being involved in the kid's life is more work a spanking, but the kid would be better off.
ratcliffja
Member
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Incoming TWO game suspension.
Shake Appeal
Member
In most of the world, yes. Because it damages children and increases the likelihood of bad outcomes in later life, including aggression and mental illness.
CreepingFear
Member
That Viking's press conference was one of the most disgusting things I've ever heard.
youngplaya21
Member
And that's what should be spread. I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I honestly can't think of too many ways to do that that won't count as child abuse. Hell I think i saw someone say something about putting tobasco sauce on the tongue counting as child abuse... What the hell is left after timeout that wouldn't count? Those options are the ones that need to be spread around. All I'm reading is don't abuse your kids, with no alternatives whatsoever (besides timeout)
Outtrigger888
Member
Really? How would something like this be proven? How about the positive outcomes to spanking a child?
Take away toys, electronics, give extra homework assignments (this is what I prefer), don't allow them to be with friends, no tv, early bedtime, chores, etc, etc, etc. There are so many other options besides just a timeout.
It is pure insanity.
The Denver Broncos are my 2nd favorite team (just behind the Portland Trail Blazers) and I have followed them since childhood. But I am starting to wonder when and if I should just opt out of any NFL related purchases (including cable) and if that will even matter.
This is just leaving a horrible taste in my mouth. They need to clean house starting at the top.
Shake Appeal
Member
There aren't any, according to social science. It doesn't even work well as a behavior deterrent.
Which is why several dozen countries have banned corporal punishment for children.
NFL fan priorities:
1. their fantasy team
2. their NFL team
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last. any women and children who were abused
link?
Retweeted by Dan Bernstein
KHOU 11 News Houston ‏@KHOU 20m
#KHOU #ITEAM Adrian Peterson investigated for another abuse accusation involving another one of his sons. More at 6!
Right about now the Vikings are wishing they had held back on that press conference...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Do you, though? Wouldn't it be considered some PC age bullshit if it actually happened, that you'd note with a hint of disdain before ignoring it and reminiscing on how things were better in the old days when people didn't think about whether or not they were abusing their children when they hit them with belts and lamp cords and sticks?
I'm sure if those studies existed someone would have brought them up before now.
But they don't exist because hitting your children isn't a good thing.
CreepingFear
Member
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Sorry, I heard it on the radio. I'm sure it's somewhere on the net as well, maybe youtube.
youngplaya21
Member
If the most I had to worry about after something like cursing out a teacher is extra homework, then I'm not too worried. That's all fine for something small, but what about if your kid steals something from the mall? If they bully someone at school? It they get in a fight?
One of the most disturbing things about this is how so many seem to be stating this belief that "whuppings" like this are the common and expected way to raise black kids. Even Sir Charles made it a race issue when defending AP.
Really harkens back, and I hate to say this, to a slave mentality that beatings are the only way to teach.
Really harkens back, and I hate to say this, to a slave mentality that beatings are the only way to teach.
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