Careful with that box though. I owned it and the switch is made with very fragile plastic. Speaking from experience, it takes very little to break it.
I agree with you though that the video quality is superb.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Careful with that box though. I owned it and the switch is made with very fragile plastic. Speaking from experience, it takes very little to break it.
I agree with you though that the video quality is superb.
Yeah about that plastic... the s-video port is way too narrow, I had trouble finding a s-video cable that fit, all my other cables had a shape that wouldn't fit because of the surrounding plastic. That's kinda dumb design.
I was not only talking about the inputs which feel cheap, but the actual little black switch itself which allows you to toggle between VGA and Svideo/composite. Treat it with a very delicate touch. It broke with very normal use in my experience.
Almost as if it's perforated and built to break >_<
Alright, I'll keep that in mind, especially since I do use both modes.
Hi guys.
Apologies if this has been asked and answered before but there are now a lot of pages in this thread to catch up with.
I have about 15 consoles wired up to one CRT TV via a single scart socket which in turn is fed by 4 scart switches attached to one final scart switch. This is all on a PAL TV (I'm from the UK) using PAL consoles. Some consoles have been RGB modded (including 60Hz RGB output), some are just composite and some might even be S-Video. Regardless, they all arrive at my TV using a scart socket and all display just fine (or as well as a standard Sony Trinitron CRT will display them).
I now have the opportunity to attach them all into a 50" plasma in a dedicated retro gaming room which, on paper, sounds great. However, I know that hooking up old consoles to a modern TV looks terrible so I was wondering if I should buy an RGB Mini Framemeister along with a PAL scart connection cable for it.
But... and this is where I need your help... I don't think I can just plug my scart switcher into the RGB Mini and expect it to just output whatever its fed into the plasma. Is it true that it will only accept RGB consoles/computers? What about a NES that is composite only? Is there any way I can get all the various consoles wired up and looking good on the plasma if the RGB Mini isn't going to do what I need?
Thanks guys...
Apologies if this has been asked and answered before but there are now a lot of pages in this thread to catch up with.
I have about 15 consoles wired up to one CRT TV via a single scart socket which in turn is fed by 4 scart switches attached to one final scart switch. This is all on a PAL TV (I'm from the UK) using PAL consoles. Some consoles have been RGB modded (including 60Hz RGB output), some are just composite and some might even be S-Video. Regardless, they all arrive at my TV using a scart socket and all display just fine (or as well as a standard Sony Trinitron CRT will display them).
I now have the opportunity to attach them all into a 50" plasma in a dedicated retro gaming room which, on paper, sounds great. However, I know that hooking up old consoles to a modern TV looks terrible so I was wondering if I should buy an RGB Mini Framemeister along with a PAL scart connection cable for it.
But... and this is where I need your help... I don't think I can just plug my scart switcher into the RGB Mini and expect it to just output whatever its fed into the plasma. Is it true that it will only accept RGB consoles/computers? What about a NES that is composite only? Is there any way I can get all the various consoles wired up and looking good on the plasma if the RGB Mini isn't going to do what I need?
Thanks guys...
I can't speak to the details of your specific situation, but the XRGB Mini has composite / svideo inputs on the front, and dual HDMI and Component (through a D-Terminal adaptor) on the back. I run a bunch of stuff that isn't RGB through mine with no issues. I don't know if those ports handle PAL though.
D.Lo
Member
You could wire up a cable that uses both the mini-din RGB input, as well as the composite/S-video inputs.
Need to know what consoles. You might actually be lucky and cut down the number of switches you're using if you can batch the consoles into component/composite/rgb.
You'll need adapters for rgb and component too.
Need to know what consoles. You might actually be lucky and cut down the number of switches you're using if you can batch the consoles into component/composite/rgb.
You'll need adapters for rgb and component too.
Thanks guys.
It's good to know that I can at least get all the consoles wired up into it. I'm just thinking about the best way to wire up the various switches if I did buy it.
I've currently got:
For so many consoles, it's actually well organised and easy to use and I'm really pleased with the set-up but I just want to migrate it to a plasma TV instead.
I'm thinking I might need to buy a S-Video switch and a composite switch box and have all three types of switch permanently plugged into the RGB Mini and then just use some clear labeling to remind me which switch is for which console etc.
Would that be my best bet do you think?
Cheers...
It's good to know that I can at least get all the consoles wired up into it. I'm just thinking about the best way to wire up the various switches if I did buy it.
I've currently got:
ZX Spectrum (RGB scart), Commodore 64 (S-Video scart), Atari 800XL (composite) and Amiga (RGB scart) all feeding into one scart switch.
NES (composite), SNES (RGB scart), N64 (S-Video scart), and PC Engine (RGB scart) all feeding into a second scart switch.
Megadrive (RGB scart), Saturn (RGB scart), Dreamcast (RGB scart) and PS2 (RGB scart) all feeding into a third scart switch.
The three scart switches then feed into one more 'master' scart switch which goes into the single RGB scart connection of my CRT.
I should mention that all of the composite cables are converted into scart connections via one of the cheap little converter blocks.NES (composite), SNES (RGB scart), N64 (S-Video scart), and PC Engine (RGB scart) all feeding into a second scart switch.
Megadrive (RGB scart), Saturn (RGB scart), Dreamcast (RGB scart) and PS2 (RGB scart) all feeding into a third scart switch.
The three scart switches then feed into one more 'master' scart switch which goes into the single RGB scart connection of my CRT.
For so many consoles, it's actually well organised and easy to use and I'm really pleased with the set-up but I just want to migrate it to a plasma TV instead.
I'm thinking I might need to buy a S-Video switch and a composite switch box and have all three types of switch permanently plugged into the RGB Mini and then just use some clear labeling to remind me which switch is for which console etc.
Would that be my best bet do you think?
Cheers...
Huggers
Member
So my CRT is great but it isn't quite great enough. It's a consumer Bang n Olufsen MX 4002. The picture is good and the sound is stunning. However. I'm in search of a more perfect picture. I might have a chance at getting a cheap BVM 20G1E. Anyone know anything about this monitor? Would it be a good choice?
Huggers
Member
Yeah I hear they're decent. Looking to pay around £50. I know of a PVM even cheaper than that but as I understand it they're not as good
Careful though, BVMs are modular in design, so a BVM might not do what you want if it lacks the appropriate modules.
Huggers
Member
Is this to do with varying inputs in the back yes? I've asked for a picture of the back of the monitor which I'm still waiting for so hopefully this should help
theSlacker
Member
Make sure it also comes with the control unit (a "BKM-10R" I believe, but not sure for the euro units), since those are separate as well for the BVMs. I really don't know the value of the European units so can't really help you with how much it is worth, but I would assume less then the U versions since you guys have other options for RGB then these professional monitors.
Huggers
Member
Yeah it does come with the BKM10R unit. Surely if it has BNC inputs on the back, I can get a lead to send RGB to that and I should be sorted no? I'm massively ignorant to how these things work but need my scanlines!
Yeah, RGB is a must, you must at least have that or it's not worth it. You may also want S-video support.
Huggers
Member
Being in England means all my consoles are scart or AV. I assume cable will sort me out; http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/...o-4-x-bnc--2-x-rca-for-sony-pvm-monitors.html
theSlacker
Member
All the inputs on a PVM or BVM will be BNC, other then like the 9pin dsub inputs for the remote thing. That means that even if that unit doesn't have the RGB module in the back (which I am pretty sure that model came with standard so it should be there unless it was removed) there can be BNC inputs for composite or whatever.
If the monitor you are trying to buy has the correct input in the back, then yes, you will need to get a SCART>BNC adapter. Several retro forums have people that make them, someone sells them on ebay, and there is some website that sells them directly. They normally run around $20-$40 depending on the seller. Just make sure to get SCART>BNC and not J21>BNC. Also one with a female SCART side, unless you intend to plug it into some kind of SCART switch and don't want to use an extra SCART extender.
BVMs and PVMs are top of the line for this kind of thing, but I thought it was much easier to get RGB capable old CRTs with just a SCART input over in Europe. I really don't have any real advise on CRTs in Europe though since I just don't know anything about them, and wouldn't want one since even the BMVs that are for that region are PAL.
Huggers
Member
The two bolded parts. Surely it must have BNC so it should be all good right? (Thanks for your help btw)
Huggers
Member
A lot of the PVMs I've seen here don't have Scart. Perhaps I've been unfortunate
Huggers
Member
No. It belongs to a friend of a friend. If there's one on ebay I might see if I can get that though if it is cheap enough
There seems to be a dissensus about that based on how thick you like your scanlines. PVM is definitely going to be better than most consumer grade sets though.
I personally would prefer a BVM, but my PVM still gets a ton of love.
If you want a less detailed image that is closer to consumer grade, but still of higher quality, get a PVM. If you want something that is nothing like a consumer set, but is generally the most detailed 240p image you've ever seen, get a BVM.
Huggers
Member
So the BVMs have almost too many lines? Making the scanlines even more pronounced? I think I'd likely enjoy this
I think it looks stunning. I have a BVM-20G1U (the US version) as my vert-only monitor and it's amazing, the only difference between the F and the G is the number of lines (800 for the G, 900 for the F), and it has 3 less input slot's in the back. But it has everything you need for RGB gaming. Take a look below:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43256&start=330
I posted about it on shmups a while back, 2nd post on this page.
BVMs have more lines than both of my CRTs, but you get a good idea of how that affects the picture based on a previous post I've made:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141601723&postcount=5981
And then there's this one as well:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138023035&postcount=343
Keep in mind, those are shitty iPhone pics. Each looks far better in person.
Huggers
Member
Those Panasonic images look incredible
It makes them less pronounced. The scan lines are the bright lines, the black lines are... well, lines that aren't scanned.
Small Mailman
Member
Just a little curious. Which HDTV would be best for playing retro games on without all of these upscalers and stuff? I'm a total nub when it comes to stuff like this so please be gentle. I just got a Wii U, and I'm mainly a retro guy, but the overscan and obvious low quality of my tv when compared to the tablet controller is too noticeable for me. So i guess my question is:
Which HDTV is best for just plugging and playing my old consoles?
Which HDTV is best for just plugging and playing my old consoles?
The absolute best would of course be a CRT HDTV, but those were a very short lived phenomenon and are therefore extremely rare now, and even if you do find one they are very unpractical due to being enormous.
As for modern HDTVs, as far as I know they all have shitty built-in upscalers. No manufacturer gives a damn about image quality of SD signals.
Sorry, there's no easy way out of this one. Or at least no way that would be satisfactory to the high standards of the majority of us regulars in this thread, who all own either a high-end CRT or a Framemeister (or both).
(BTW the NES/SNES Virtual Console on Wii U is trash, don't use it as a benchmark for image quality on classic games)
So I finally got around to playing some PS2 with the Frameister, and I'm REALLY impressed by how great the XRGB handles 480i content! It's very sharp with no interlacing blur or mess, at least from my eyes.
It's been a while since I've had a working backwards compatible PS3, but in my head, the PS2 running through RGB into the Frameister looks WAY better than running through HDMI on the PS3.
Now if I could just clear through my backlog in order to play some PS2 games... I've been meaning to try out the Castlevanias on PS2, maybe I'll give them a go after Christmas.
It's been a while since I've had a working backwards compatible PS3, but in my head, the PS2 running through RGB into the Frameister looks WAY better than running through HDMI on the PS3.
Now if I could just clear through my backlog in order to play some PS2 games... I've been meaning to try out the Castlevanias on PS2, maybe I'll give them a go after Christmas.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Any console that runs at less than 480p (e.g. anything older than a Dreamcast) is going to run like crap on virtually any (all?) flatscreen HDTVs. The DC/PS2/GCN/XB generation will produce mixed results.
Small Mailman
Member
Hmm good to know thank you! I'm not judging based off the wii u virtual. I only like using the older systems to play my old games
No, they would be more pronounced. They'd be thicker.
Does anyone have any experience with the SLG-in-a-box being sold on ArcadeForge?
I'm looking for a cheaper alternative than a Framemeister for playing Saturn/Genesis on my Panasonic Plasma via RGB with the option for scanlines.
I'm definitely open to alternatives as well.
I'm looking for a cheaper alternative than a Framemeister for playing Saturn/Genesis on my Panasonic Plasma via RGB with the option for scanlines.
I'm definitely open to alternatives as well.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I'm not sure if that thing has any scaling functions built-in. It will only help you if it has the option for at least 480p output from any input source.
Huggers
Member
According to the description, it will accept 240p, 480i/p and output either resolution of 640x480 or 800x600.
I guess I'm just curious if anyone has had any 'real world' experience with it?
baphomet
Member
If you don't want to spend the money on a framemeister its probably your best option. I think its recommended to upscale to 480p and let the TV handle the rest of the upscaling. I've got a supergun built by him and its really good quality. The base of this is one of those Chinese upscalers, but for the money its probably going to give a good picture.
A higher vertical definition means a smaller dot size and thinner scan lines.
The black lines would be thicker.
baphomet
Member
The black lines are what people are referring to when they say scanlines.
Do they? When people say "I can see the scanlines" I assumed they says they can see their individual traces, as opposed to piled together to form a coherent image. Similarly, scan line filters on emulators are filters separating each horizontal line of pixels for them to be seen with more details.
Ok then. Guys, the scan lines are the bright lines representing data, traced, or "scanned", by the electron beam. The black lines are an area of the screen that is not scanned by the electron beam.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Every word of this is correct, but since it's the empty/black lines that people are usually trying to get right when they're talking about scanline behavior, it's just taken on the exact opposite meaning in actual usage..
I mean, I guess you could push for the adoption of a more accurate term (unscanned lines?), but I don't see it gaining any traction.
MightyHedgehog
Member
What a shame. All of those wonderful CRTs.
sixteen-bit
Member
I think bapho has a higher quantity of CRTs than that in his house
RadarScope1
Member
So just to follow up on the Framemeister price drop due to the dollar/yen exchange rate - the price is down to $295 at Solaris right now.
http://solarisjapan.com/products/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit
It's dropped about $5 in the week or so (maybe two?) since I posted about it last. I poked around looking for some financial reporting about what analysts expect to happen in the future and they seem to think the yen will continue to drop. The rate right now is about $1 to 118 yen. Some of the articles I read indicate people think it will be about 125 yen by the end of 2015 (note that is next year's end, not three weeks from now). So it's going to continue to trend in westerners' favor but very slow. I guess my thought is that it's safe to wait as the price is highly unlikely to go up. It will go down if you wait, but slowly.
I'm going to see if I score any Christmas cash this month and check on it again in January.
http://solarisjapan.com/products/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit
It's dropped about $5 in the week or so (maybe two?) since I posted about it last. I poked around looking for some financial reporting about what analysts expect to happen in the future and they seem to think the yen will continue to drop. The rate right now is about $1 to 118 yen. Some of the articles I read indicate people think it will be about 125 yen by the end of 2015 (note that is next year's end, not three weeks from now). So it's going to continue to trend in westerners' favor but very slow. I guess my thought is that it's safe to wait as the price is highly unlikely to go up. It will go down if you wait, but slowly.
I'm going to see if I score any Christmas cash this month and check on it again in January.
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