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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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P

Peltz

Member
Madao said:
i find that the Smart 2x filter paired with 1080p output is nice for 480p GC games. the Metroid Primes look pretty good this way.

N64 is a lost cause. even the above combo doesn't do much for most games. for me it is all about avoiding the massive input lag i'd get if i plugged the console directly to the TV (i have space issues so a CRT is completely out of the question)
Click to expand...

Wow that made a pretty big difference on the Dreamcast. Much better. I'll try doing the same with GCN after the holiday.

Edit: I was able to test out the GCN this morning before work with a 480p game. It looks far better with this setting, but still a slight touch beneath the caliber of my HDTV's built-in scanner. Still, this is my only way to play DC in 480p at this point, and I'm finally happy with the image quality for that specific purpose.

Thanks Madao.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Peltz said:
They look way better on a decent CRT in my opinion.. The scaler does it no favors.
Click to expand...
RGB Mod + Framemeister = N64 glory.

Looks amazing on my screen.

Of course blurry texture games stay blurry. But the best looking games (parts of Banjos for example) and man the N64 was in a league of its own that gen.

Play with a Hori mini pad for maximum N64 awesomeness.
 
S

Shining

Member
God damn the 20" PVM/BMV's are hard do find in Sweden. I'm about to give up. The best i can find is a brand new 17" JVC TM-1750PN monitor for about $170. I dunno, i feel 17" might be to small. Anyone got any experience with JVC monitors?
 
P

Peltz

Member
Shining said:
God damn the 20" PVM/BMV's are hard do find in Sweden. I'm about to give up. The best i can find is a brand new 17" JVC TM-1750PN monitor for about $170. I dunno, i feel 17" might be to small. Anyone got any experience with JVC monitors?
Click to expand...

Check out Bancho's posts in the scanline screenshots thread. Send him a PM also to get the details on his setup. He's got a 20" JVC monitor and it's insanely gorgeous:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136493287&postcount=16

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136494976&postcount=24

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136503622&postcount=34
 
A

Adam Blue

Member
Adam Blue said:
Continuing on with my SNES RGB woes from a few pages back. I still cannot get it to work again considering it was fine for a long while:

retro_console_accessories

iEI3WXOiq0JIs.jpg


retrogamingcables

ibvwE0f0z2cCg9.jpg


And the beautiful Genesis with retro_console_accessories (there is a time when it started up out of sync!)

iUBtSUI4bVBYp.jpg


SNES worked fine for a few weeks! It works via s-video.

Cable I'm using to go to the monitor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201193146094

Any thoughts? I used it with switcher and without. This is driving me crazy. retrogamingcables is sending me a replacement, but if the other cable doesn't work either, then it may just be me. I don't see it being a coincidence.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, this was solved by using this device, that includes an lm1881. I just didn't think I needed it because I was already using csync and even had a sync processor! It's a custom built device that isn't available anymore.

ibv7jNfVAJSu3b.jpg
 
G

GayForMaster

Banned
Shining said:
God damn the 20" PVM/BMV's are hard do find in Sweden. I'm about to give up. The best i can find is a brand new 17" JVC TM-1750PN monitor for about $170. I dunno, i feel 17" might be to small. Anyone got any experience with JVC monitors?
Click to expand...

#nevergiveup

I just got done trying gbp on my pvm and at 480p it looks meh. 480i makes it look even worse, but I just remembered a few of you taking about some sort of Swiss software to force gbp into 240p. Going to try it, but does anyone here have experience with it? Will it render with scanlines using the Swiss? I'm afraid that might be bad since gba never had scanlines, right?
 
P

Peagles

Member
GayForMaster said:
#nevergiveup

I just got done trying gbp on my pvm and at 480p it looks meh. 480i makes it look even worse, but I just remembered a few of you taking about some sort of Swiss software to force gbp into 240p. Going to try it, but does anyone here have experience with it? Will it render with scanlines using the Swiss? I'm afraid that might be bad since gba never had scanlines, right?
Click to expand...

I use 240p with the GBP on my PVM and I really like it. I know the GBA never had scanlines but it has a great look to it regardless. It's at least worth a try if you aren't happy with 480 i or p.
 
G

GayForMaster

Banned
Peagles said:
I use 240p with the GBP on my PVM and I really like it. I know the GBA never had scanlines but it has a great look to it regardless. It's at least worth a try if you aren't happy with 480 i or p.
Click to expand...

Good to hear that you like it at least. I saw some comparison images and it really does make a difference.
 
S

Sho Nuff

Banned
I am going to Japan for a business trip next week. Is there any reason why I should not get a Framemeister? Note that I recently got rid of my CRTs because I am moving to a new apartment :-(
 
P

Peltz

Member
Sho Nuff said:
I am going to Japan for a business trip next week. Is there any reason why I should not get a Framemeister? Note that I recently got rid of my CRTs because I am moving to a new apartment :-(
Click to expand...

Even though I criticized it a few posts back, no, there is no reason not to get one.

Framemeister does work as advertised. It's just that a CRT is by far preferable to some of us -- including myself. All of my complaints are admittedly very nitpicky and gripey. The device gives amazing image quality.

And even where I do complain about it, I would never play old games on an HDTV without it, and that includes n64 games. It's essential if you plan on not having CRT tech.
 
R

RadarScope1

Member
Looks like the Framemeister is 300 bucks from Solaris right now. Exchange rate? I might have to finally bite on one with some Xmas money if the price stays like this...
 
Y

Yes Boss!

Member
RadarScope1 said:
Looks like the Framemeister is 300 bucks from Solaris right now. Exchange rate? I might have to finally bite on one with some Xmas money if the price stays like this...
Click to expand...

Definitely a currency thing. It has been trending in our favor for the last coupla months. Amazon.co.jp has it for about $285 (third-party) so the Solaris price is quite good. EMS is only about $20 since the box and unit are so tiny.

Everyone should have a framemeister. Just an excellent tool to have in the gameroom. Not an either/or.
 
R

RadarScope1

Member
Sorry I didn't include the link! I was on mobile and didn't think about it. Glad to point it out, though. Been waiting for the exchange rate to break this way for a long time. The only question now is...

televator said:
Very nice. Thank you. Now, I wonder if I should wait a bit more. Is the Yen still slipping? Not that I'm wishing for it.
Click to expand...

My thought is that since the rates change incrementally, we are good to wait and see a bit. It won't swing wildly either way. Surely there's some decent financial reporting that can give us an idea about where this is likely to go in early 2015....
 
K

Kadmac25

Member
I am thinking on getting a SONY HR TRINITRON PVM-14M2U but it doesn't come with a power cord. Do PVMs in general work fine with the same power cord for a desktop computer? The input looks the same.
 
Heavy's Sandvich

Heavy's Sandvich

Member
I need the help of PAL gaf.

I have a PAL N64 and I want the best cable I can buy to make it look less disgraceful than it does over composite.

I heard the best route is S-video, would a cable like this be good?

5 in 1 RGB Scart Svideo AV cable

If I do get an S-video cable, it's cool to get a scart head and plug it in?
 
M

Madao

Member
it's a pretty long shot but i figured trying doesn't hurt.

i'm having the following issue related to the Game Boy Player and was wondering if someone here has run into it:

for some reason, all the controller adapters i have don't work when i use it. the GBP is only accepting GC controllers or GBAs connected with the GC-GBA cable.

if i try any adapter that converts a different controller to the GC, it just doesn't work and the inputs aren't registered. at first i thought it was bad adapters but i got raphnet adapters recently and even those don't work. i plug it in any combination and the GC won't recognize it when using the GBP (i already tested it with normal GC games and the adapters are working)
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Madao said:
it's a pretty long shot but i figured trying doesn't hurt.

i'm having the following issue related to the Game Boy Player and was wondering if someone here has run into it:

for some reason, all the controller adapters i have don't work when i use it. the GBP is only accepting GC controllers or GBAs connected with the GC-GBA cable.

if i try any adapter that converts a different controller to the GC, it just doesn't work and the inputs aren't registered. at first i thought it was bad adapters but i got raphnet adapters recently and even those don't work. i plug it in any combination and the GC won't recognize it when using the GBP (i already tested it with normal GC games and the adapters are working)
Click to expand...
This is a regular thing with adapters. They draw extra power to power themselves, and Sony controllers in particular are less efficient and higher draw than Nintendo controllers already.

So the adapters work to some extent, but are running outside official spec. Add in a GBP which is also drawing from the console, and the controller ports are likely shy enough current to run them.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Madao said:
it's a pretty long shot but i figured trying doesn't hurt.

i'm having the following issue related to the Game Boy Player and was wondering if someone here has run into it:

for some reason, all the controller adapters i have don't work when i use it. the GBP is only accepting GC controllers or GBAs connected with the GC-GBA cable.

if i try any adapter that converts a different controller to the GC, it just doesn't work and the inputs aren't registered. at first i thought it was bad adapters but i got raphnet adapters recently and even those don't work. i plug it in any combination and the GC won't recognize it when using the GBP (i already tested it with normal GC games and the adapters are working)
Click to expand...

Odd. I haven't been using my raphnet adapters for a while now, but the SNES to GCN port adapters he makes definitely worked with GB Player. I don't remember testing any of his other adapters with GB Player.

Are you also running Swiss? Perhaps that's somehow causing an issue by drawing further power? (Probably not... it's just a stab in the dark).
 
T

The Mageling

Member
Peltz said:
Odd. I haven't been using my raphnet adapters for a while now, but the SNES to GCN port adapters he makes definitely worked with GB Player. I don't remember testing any of his other adapters with GB Player.

Are you also running Swiss? Perhaps that's somehow causing an issue by drawing further power? (Probably not... it's just a stab in the dark).
Click to expand...

Yeah, my Raphnet SNES to GCN adapter works fine on GBP too. I've had it for a few months. Not sure what's causing that to happen. Might be worth emailing them?
 
M

Madao

Member
Peltz said:
Odd. I haven't been using my raphnet adapters for a while now, but the SNES to GCN port adapters he makes definitely worked with GB Player. I don't remember testing any of his other adapters with GB Player.

Are you also running Swiss? Perhaps that's somehow causing an issue by drawing further power? (Probably not... it's just a stab in the dark).
Click to expand...

i'm running the GBP without any extras. just the accesory + controllers on GC.

i only tried the N64->GC adapter though. i'll test the SNES->GC adapter to see what happens (my SNES controller is stored somewhere since i don't use SNES stuff that often).
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
As far as I'm aware (don't have a Raphael one) a SNES adapter is much simpler and shpuld work. It literally just maps the GCN's digital buttons to the SNES buttons. Unlike PS2 adapters that need to take analog signals and convert them to digital, and completely retranslate the stick signals.

I'm guessing he's talking about PS2 asapter or some other one that requires analogue stick translation.

Edit: yep N64 that'll do it.
 
BONKERS

BONKERS

Member
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/507669971/hdmyboy-a-full-hd-power-up-for-your-game-boy-class

They even manage proper non-integer scaling!

Only problem, is that it seems like it's really counter intuitive to choose to do this on the original gameboy. And not the gameboy color. For one, there is already enough demand for the DMG in the chiptune scene that drives up prices and sacrifices original units to extreme modification.

AND doesn't give you ability to play GBC games and GBConly games in their intended modes.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Only for the original black and white? Meh, I'll stick to my cheap Super Game Boy, at least I'll have borders and a better selection of colours. And none of that terrible input lag that will come with this mod.
 
P

Peltz

Member
BONKERS said:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/507669971/hdmyboy-a-full-hd-power-up-for-your-game-boy-class

They even manage proper non-integer scaling!

Only problem, is that it seems like it's really counter intuitive to choose to do this on the original gameboy. And not the gameboy color. For one, there is already enough demand for the DMG in the chiptune scene that drives up prices and sacrifices original units to extreme modification.

AND doesn't give you ability to play GBC games and GBConly games in their intended modes.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd be more into this on a GBA or GBC. I can't see getting an OG Gameboy + Mod for something that a Super Nintendo + Super GB already does better. Super Gameboy runs GB Games well enough in my humble opinion. This type of modding feels like it's from the "because I can" type thought process rather than actually fulfilling a need.

Not saying it isn't cool as hell though - it is totally cool. And if people want to pimp out their GB, more power to them.

But we actually need new solutions for properly playing GBC and GBA games on the big screen without GB Player more than anything else. And I'd selfishly love for someone to focus on this task instead.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Peltz said:
But we actually need new solutions for properly playing GBC and GBA games on the big screen without GB Player more than anything else. And I'd selfishly love for someone to focus on this task instead.
Click to expand...

I wish someone made a magic mod to turn a Super Game Boy into a Super Game Boy Color. I'm ready to gut a Game boy color for its CPU, GPU, and whatever is needed for that.

The GBA actually has sort of a half-assed consolisation solution to have it output Composite. I believe RGB out is feasible but no one really cared to look for it, given the availability of the Game Boy Player.
 
JonathanPower

JonathanPower

Member
Heavy's Sandvich said:
I need the help of PAL gaf.

I have a PAL N64 and I want the best cable I can buy to make it look less disgraceful than it does over composite.

I heard the best route is S-video, would a cable like this be good?

5 in 1 RGB Scart Svideo AV cable

If I do get an S-video cable, it's cool to get a scart head and plug it in?
Click to expand...

The best route is to use the RGB scart cable, which is much better than S-video and composite. So if your TV does have the scart RGB input, you can just use that.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Khaz said:
I wish someone made a magic mod to turn a Super Game Boy into a Super Game Boy Color. I'm ready to gut a Game boy color for its CPU, GPU, and whatever is needed for that.

The GBA actually has sort of a half-assed consolisation solution to have it output Composite. I believe RGB out is feasible but no one really cared to look for it, given the availability of the Game Boy Player.
Click to expand...

It needs to happen. GB Player is subpar even if forced into 240p.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
JonathanPower said:
The best route is to use the RGB scart cable, which is much better than S-video and composite. So if your TV does have the scart RGB input, you can just use that.
Click to expand...
N64 does not output RGB, so no. You can mod it to do so, but only early NTSC models and a very early French model can be modded easily.
 
baphomet

baphomet

Member
There's not really a good thread to post these in, and I figure they'll be appreciated in here more than anywhere else. But here's a few new additions to my collection. I've got a few more things that should finally be arriving (ordered like 3-4 months ago now?) in the next few days, that I'll probably post up when they arrive as well.

First up a few an Atomiswave board with a few games.
TqFCDVf.jpg
Click to expand...
Next up is a modified Taito G-Net board. Based on PS1 hardware, this is an awesome board for shooters. Games were originally on what was essentially a PCMCIA hard drive. It's been modified by a guy in Austria to play games off a standard CF card in a PCMCIA adapter.
uNopF3t.jpg
Click to expand...
And Lastly, I finally pieced together my Sega Naomi Raspberry Pi netboot kit. I've been grabbing all the parts piece by piece over the past 2 weeks or so. There's actually a bunch of little pieces that are required and the total added up pretty quick. Thing is great though. The Raspberry Pi stores the games and boots them via crossover cable to the Net Dimm board.
ZItqxlp.jpg

vbpmXUi.jpg
Click to expand...

Have both the Naomi and Atomiswave running in 480p, and the G-Net is beautiful 240p. I'll probably post up some videos of them in action pretty soon.
 
BONKERS

BONKERS

Member
Obscura question: Does anyone have Taito Legends 2 for the PS2? I'm curious as to whether this supports 240p or not. I have the XBOX version, but of course. Is 480i only.
 
JonathanPower

JonathanPower

Member
D.Lo said:
N64 does not output RGB, so no. You can mod it to do so, but only early NTSC models and a very early French model can be modded easily.
Click to expand...

I would think it does because there is an RGB SCART cable available for the N64, and only the PAL N64 supports that cable. Please keep in mind that the RGB SCART connector was the standard connector used by many European CRT TVs, and accordingly pretty much every PAL console supported that standard back then.

Edit. I see that even if there is an RGB SCART cable for the PAL N64, it does not matter because the console does not natively support RGB output.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
JonathanPower said:
I would think it does because there is an RGB SCART cable available for the N64, and only the PAL N64 supports that cable. Please keep in mind that the RGB SCART connector was the standard connector used by many European CRT TVs, and accordingly pretty much every PAL console supported that standard back then.
Click to expand...
You have to mod an N64 to get RGB out of it.

Region doesn't matter.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
JonathanPower said:
I would think it does because there is an RGB SCART cable available for the N64, and only the PAL N64 supports that cable. Please keep in mind that the RGB SCART connector was the standard connector used by many European CRT TVs, and accordingly pretty much every PAL console supported that standard back then.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it's not that simple, Scart is a cable that can carry many signals, it's a multi-purpose cable that is clunky and cumbersome but ultimately forward thinking.

Scart has 21 pins, RGB only uses 6 of the 21 pins including audio (R,G,B,Sync,L,R) for example. Composite can be delivered over scart and only uses 3 including audio.

No N64 supports RGB without a mod. S-video is the best it does.
 
JonathanPower

JonathanPower

Member
D.Lo said:
Unfortunately it's not that simple, Scart is a cable that can carry many signals, it's a multi-purpose cable that is clunky and cumbersome but ultimately forward thinking.

Scart has 21 pins, RGB only uses 6 of the 21 pins including audio (R,G,B,Sync,L,R) for example. Composite can be delivered over scart and only uses 3 including audio.

No N64 supports RGB without a mod. S-video is the best it does.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't aware that the N64 had this limitation. Then yes, S-video is the best possible route.
 
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