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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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baphomet
Member
I just sold my last one, but I will have some more in a week or so. Composite video as sync is what the later RGB models have. Its the most common sync youll find. Earlier models have c-sync which is only a sync signal. It's good for displays that are very picky with their sync. If youre interested just message me on here and we'll work it out.
Here various N64 games using my XRGB-mini. The N64 has had the RGB mod done, with amp and using C-sync. Watch 720p and fullscreen so you get the best picture quality....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcgdsIrg0EM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcgdsIrg0EM
Bar81
Member
Sent. Thanks for the info.
Posting this here because it's relevant. Today's the first time I've tried RGB SCART on my current set (had a super famicom on the previous 32" model), and I'm really impressed by the scaler. It's damn good for an LG TV that cost me £450 a year ago. Taking note that I haven't even messed with the SCART input's brightness/contrast settings yet, this is a shot from my Mega Drive on the TV:
Bear in mind it's a shitty mobile phone photo - it's crisp as day in person. and the colours are spot on. For comparison, this is a shot of Retroarch emulating the game via my PC at 1080p HDMI for comparison:
I'm happy with it. Guess I don't need a framemeister yet! Since I took this photo, I've messed with the settings a bit, and now the colours/brightness match up perfectly on both inputs.
Bear in mind it's a shitty mobile phone photo - it's crisp as day in person. and the colours are spot on. For comparison, this is a shot of Retroarch emulating the game via my PC at 1080p HDMI for comparison:
I'm happy with it. Guess I don't need a framemeister yet! Since I took this photo, I've messed with the settings a bit, and now the colours/brightness match up perfectly on both inputs.
drhankmccoyphd
Member
My father-in-law did me a solid and decided to mail us a huge care package of all my wife's old video games, mostly Genesis and NES stuff. I'm going to hook them up to my 720p Vizio LCD. I'd like to hook the Genesis M1 over RGB but I'm a bit fuzzy as to how to do this and whether the cost in cables is worth it. If I'm reading this thread correctly I'd need the SCART cable, then a SCART -> Component box, and finally a 3.5mm jack to RCA for the audio from the headphone jack to the TV. Am I doing it right? Is that the cheapest option getting RGB out of the genesis, or is there some way to get SCART to VGA since my TV has an input for that as well?
That setup should work, however before you buy that equipment you might want to check if your TV can accept a 240p signal. My Panasonic plasma didn't, just got a black screen with that setup above (only difference was I used a breakout SCART for audio instead of direct from the system). But it did work on a CRT.
drhankmccoyphd
Member
I don't think it does actually. I remember some Neo Geo games on VC would only display half the screen unless I did the button combo to switch to 480i/p. If that's the case waht are my options? RF?
Your next cheapest option is to find some regular CRT TV for a few bucks at a pawn shop or something.
But if you want to be serious about classic gaming you should either:
1) Get a Sony PVM
or
2) Get a XRGB Mini
Anything else is sub-optimal.
If you live in a metropolitan area, you should be able to find a PVM under $200 through online classified ads. That's what I did (proud owner of a PVM-20M2U).
So, my TV only has one SCART/RGB socket yet I want both my N64 and Mega Drive hooked up to it I've abandoned trying to go SCART-Component, so this is my solution:
I bought an RGB SCART to VGA adapter from amazon designed for hooking up SCART devices (VCRs, DVD players, consoles) to a projector or TV via a VGA socket:
And so I can hook up my Mega Drive's SCART cable to the cable above, a female to female SCART coupler:
That should work, right? The only issue is there won't be any sound - but I run the console's headphone jack to my amp, so that's a non issue.
I bought an RGB SCART to VGA adapter from amazon designed for hooking up SCART devices (VCRs, DVD players, consoles) to a projector or TV via a VGA socket:
And so I can hook up my Mega Drive's SCART cable to the cable above, a female to female SCART coupler:
That should work, right? The only issue is there won't be any sound - but I run the console's headphone jack to my amp, so that's a non issue.
That's not going to work, unless that cable has a sync separator built in (doubt it).
First, VGA requires H/V Sync; SCART/JP21 uses combined (composite) sync.
Second, most TVs can't display 240p signals properly. If they can, they will use their (laggy) scaler to upscale it to 480p; enjoy playing games underwater.
You'd need to verify your display supports 240p signals; if it does, you'll need a Sync Strike (or some other sync separator) at the minimum. If the TV does not support 240p, you'll need a Sync Strike and a Chinese CGA to VGA scaler.
It's not the Frame Meister; N64 needs a amp for RGB mods.
First, VGA requires H/V Sync; SCART/JP21 uses combined (composite) sync.
Second, most TVs can't display 240p signals properly. If they can, they will use their (laggy) scaler to upscale it to 480p; enjoy playing games underwater.
You'd need to verify your display supports 240p signals; if it does, you'll need a Sync Strike (or some other sync separator) at the minimum. If the TV does not support 240p, you'll need a Sync Strike and a Chinese CGA to VGA scaler.
It's not the Frame Meister; N64 needs a amp for RGB mods.
My TV supports 240p (tested via pc out with VGA) and when I plug in my Mega Drive via Scart and hit info, it says so. It also has a decent scaler as I've shown above with the mega drive images I posted. Buying something like a framemeister would be a colossal waste of money.
cable has a sync separator apparently according to the description.
Even svid looks bad though
I havent had my 64 plugged into an LCD for ages, but I thought the framemeister would look better than raw. Maybe it does though?
Still not going to work unless that cable also converts 15KHz into 31KHz, which I highly doubt.
Anyway why the hell are going through all this nonsense? Just buy a SCART switch!!!!! You already said you have a SCART RGB port, why would you even consider anything else? Doing any sort of conversion will only degrade your image quality and waste your money.
Anyway why the hell are going through all this nonsense? Just buy a SCART switch!!!!! You already said you have a SCART RGB port, why would you even consider anything else? Doing any sort of conversion will only degrade your image quality and waste your money.
Yeah, I've actually had a complete change of heart. I've issued a return with Amazon, and my money's been put through as a refund asap already along with a collect+ postage label to print out. Which is nice.
The fact is, I've been trying my hardest to get an exceptional retro image on my LCD, and so far I've failed. I'm unable to spend the money on something like a framemeister as I'm short on cash. I just want to relive the same experiences I did as a kid. The SCART on my LCD has nasty banding I noticed, and I thought VGA might help...
I do have a CRT upstairs which I was using, but it was a little bit small (14inch) and doesn't play nicely with 60hz (PAL optimized i guess). So I hit up gumtree (craigslist) earlier and found someone down the road near the chippy offering a 21" CRT for free.
I'm finally satisfied. No more screwing around. fuck it! This thing is as good as it's gonna get!
And it is fucking amazing. My crappy phone photo doesn't do it justice. Every single pixel is crystal clear. Pure colours, no banding. 60hz!!!
...and two SCART sockets! and even an S Video! hell yeah
The fact is, I've been trying my hardest to get an exceptional retro image on my LCD, and so far I've failed. I'm unable to spend the money on something like a framemeister as I'm short on cash. I just want to relive the same experiences I did as a kid. The SCART on my LCD has nasty banding I noticed, and I thought VGA might help...
I do have a CRT upstairs which I was using, but it was a little bit small (14inch) and doesn't play nicely with 60hz (PAL optimized i guess). So I hit up gumtree (craigslist) earlier and found someone down the road near the chippy offering a 21" CRT for free.
I'm finally satisfied. No more screwing around. fuck it! This thing is as good as it's gonna get!
And it is fucking amazing. My crappy phone photo doesn't do it justice. Every single pixel is crystal clear. Pure colours, no banding. 60hz!!!
...and two SCART sockets! and even an S Video! hell yeah
sixteen-bit
Member
Sonic games' colors really pop in RGB
Yeah, it's really vivid in person.
Just hooked up my Wii to it via Scart. Playing DKC2 on it via Snes9xGX in double strike (native res) mode is so good.
VC titles are superb too.
theSlacker
Member
It is amazing how much RGB helps it, and genesis games in general. Like it is an easy go to to show someone why you would want a PVM/converter over just playing it on your hd tv. Only problem is how same of the waterfalls look. :C
Yeah, there's no comparison. This is like some arcade-tier shit. Vibrant, sharp as hell, and no blur at all of course. An LCD that costs £2,000 wouldn't ever hold a goddamn candle to this CRT I got for free in terms of playing SNES/Sega. No contest whatsoever.
The best thing? Absolutely zero input lag. Up until now I would have dismissed it but my god is it noticeable.
The best thing? Absolutely zero input lag. Up until now I would have dismissed it but my god is it noticeable.
Even svid looks bad though
I havent had my 64 plugged into an LCD for ages, but I thought the framemeister would look better than raw. Maybe it does though?
Yeah, I guess I should have also qualified my previous statement with "N64 looks like shit in general". Seriously, it does. Its low-resolution textures look particularly bad on modern displays when upscaled from an RGB source.
IrishNinja
Member
damn, still trying to sort out how my setup's gonna be when the PS4 drops this week, much less other systems...
1) anyone tried 360 on the XRGB mini? i know it sounds pointless for HD stuff but i mostly play SHMUPs on XBLA anyway, and i could use the other HDMI slot that way! shame it cant just be a pass-through...
2) anyone recommend a good/cheap HDMI splitter? again my attempts in the past (non powered units) failed but that was with an older receiver, hopefully id have more luck this time.
1) anyone tried 360 on the XRGB mini? i know it sounds pointless for HD stuff but i mostly play SHMUPs on XBLA anyway, and i could use the other HDMI slot that way! shame it cant just be a pass-through...
2) anyone recommend a good/cheap HDMI splitter? again my attempts in the past (non powered units) failed but that was with an older receiver, hopefully id have more luck this time.
I guess what I'm wondering is.. does the Framemeister help improve it at all? Or is it a lost cause on an LCD?
IrishNinja
Member
little bit've research and i think i found an out:
gonna try this out in the new few days, as that's exactly my situation...looks like 360 takes the other HDMI slot on the mini so the upcoming PS4 can have the last receiver one! crisis averted for now, next HDMI system im gonna have to find a good splitter though.
at least future stuff like MVS/supergun etc i can stay with RGB cables, that really helped me unpack all my retro systems. i wish i had a cleaner setup for the many loose SCART cables (again switches don't look to be ideal from what ive seen) but i might just ziptie them together or something for now, heh.
gonna try this out in the new few days, as that's exactly my situation...looks like 360 takes the other HDMI slot on the mini so the upcoming PS4 can have the last receiver one! crisis averted for now, next HDMI system im gonna have to find a good splitter though.
at least future stuff like MVS/supergun etc i can stay with RGB cables, that really helped me unpack all my retro systems. i wish i had a cleaner setup for the many loose SCART cables (again switches don't look to be ideal from what ive seen) but i might just ziptie them together or something for now, heh.
IrishNinja
Member
holy crap Boss you are ballin' outta control and/or insane, haha...even then, i must have like 6 or so RGB cables and one input per unit!
what you looking to do with your 2nd unit, also have you considered another model? i recall reading on here that there was one a bit better with 32 bit content, for example
what you looking to do with your 2nd unit, also have you considered another model? i recall reading on here that there was one a bit better with 32 bit content, for example
I mainly think about the prized D-Terminal in the back. I like one for my PS2 and then another unit for my two Wiis (since I'm constantly playing VC with it). Then use one for my Saturn and Duo and the other for my SFC and eventual MD. Just seems more convenient. I also just want a back-up unit in my gameroom. Seems more ideal for me than getting selectors.
I do also have an RGB supergun but that rarely gets used and sits on the shelf now since I've gotten back with my cabs.
I've been thinking about getting a second unit for a good year.
IrishNinja
Member
interesting...why so much over component and not RGB, though? and i forget but i think you said 2 wii's mostly for virtual console selection no?
also if you ever part with that supergun lemme know, was looking into them (particularly enclosed ones) recently, man i wish we had a thread for stuff like that!
Yeah, I do most of my retro gaming on VC. I've a couple hundred titles there. It is my favorite way to play classic titles.
The extra real systems are just for a fee odd title and shmups.
We got a good thread for that. Join in...been kinda sluggish lately. Also, it is one of the best RGB-outputting consoles.
baphomet
Member
You buy that 2-3 days ago with the avenue 6? If so i was literally going to buy it when i got home but it was already gone : /
sixteen-bit
Member
I have a vanilla PCE. Thinking about doing the RGB mod to my Interface Unit.
Nope, bought two weeks ago, came with the stock 2 button controller.
baphomet
Member
Just curious about how long it took to arrive from him. Assuming youre in the states.
I'm in Canada, took less than a week. Also, no surprise customs fees.
I love Japan postal services. Never had any bad experience ordering anything from Japan.
ColonelSkills
Member
Oh man, went to go snag one of thsoe NESRGBs and they're out. Hopefully the restock is shortly!
IrishNinja
Member
man glitchy frames aside, that looks good!
baphomet
Member
Ill be ordering a few extra boards when he gets more in stock. Im still waiting on my first order to come in though. I was hoping theyd be here today, but alas, they werent. Ill post some pics of them once theyre installed. If you like it hit me up and we'll work something out.
Hehe well my partner was playing so I caught him mid swing, it's not visibly glitching at all really.
It seriously looks tons better in person though. Someday I'll find a camera that does it justice! The close up of Han's mugshot and stats is probably the truest photo in that lot, if that's any indication.
Goddamn. The Wii SNES Virtual Console pumped through RGB scart to a crt looks damn near identical to how my Super Famicom looked. It's fucking impressive.
Bear in mind that the USA NTSC Wii console firmware does NOT support RGB through SCART. Luckily, I have a PAL one which does.
And yes, I have the VC games patched for 60hz goodness. It's amazing.
Bear in mind that the USA NTSC Wii console firmware does NOT support RGB through SCART. Luckily, I have a PAL one which does.
And yes, I have the VC games patched for 60hz goodness. It's amazing.
IrishNinja
Member
huh, didn't know that. i was using component over wii but that's still disappointing.
Component over Wii is plenty fine. Not missing much with RGB. You likely have issues with the way Wii outputs video, I'd imagine...RGB is not going to change that.
IrishNinja
Member
true, i only switched over from component to RGB on PS2 cause i had a 3rd party cable for the former. i know there's technical differences but it's not so much that i typically notice.
the biggest reason id hook my wii back up would be upscaling its disc games, i mean they look nice with whatever little the WU is doing for them but im sure it could be better.
sixteen-bit
Member
Similarly, on my CRT, Wii over component looks just about as good as Gen or SNES RGB transcoded to component.
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