-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
metsallica
Member
So I bought a Framemeister about a year ago to go with a new receiver and have hooked neither up because I'm a horrible person. The PS4/XBONE/PSVITA TV have shook me from my doldrums, so please stay tuned for many terrified questions from me as I attempt to hook a billion legacy consoles to my HDTV. I still have next-to-no idea how I'm going to make everything work, or even if I CAN. But I'm somewhat excited to try? Except when I read things about using the wrong SCART cables frying systems, of course. Gulp.
sixteen-bit
Member
Fuck the Framemeister XRGB-Mini is expensive. Why is it so expensive even though it is called mini
It's mini because it's small. Heck it might be more expensive because of the form factor.
Nice really looking forward to that. I need to get that mod done.
Fuck the Framemeister XRGB-Mini is expensive. Why is it so expensive even though it is called mini
It has gone down about $100 over the last year. A bit cheaper now!
On a serious note, it is one of the more valuable tools for your gameroom. Most users verify it is well worth the investment.
sixteen-bit
Member
Really? The OG one outputs RGB without the need for a mod.
baphomet
Member
Alright so I just took a few pics of some random games to test everything out. So far I prefer the composite and improved palettes. Of course all of this is based on a few minutes or playing random games.
Here's just a few shots of some different games. My awful camera doesn't pick up the quality nearly as good as it looks in person, but it still looks amazing imo.
Here's just a few shots of some different games. My awful camera doesn't pick up the quality nearly as good as it looks in person, but it still looks amazing imo.
quick shot of everything wired up.
It is also a matter of size
My old 21'' CRT is just about perfect for older games, like FF7-9
Which BTW dont look bad at all on a PC monitor in their native resolution, but are way too tiny
Looks amazing. I know you are going to be doing mods for folks for a fee...are you also going to be doing it for the japanese Famicom?
baphomet
Member
Are you talking av Famicom or the original? He just put the installation diagram up for the original within the past few days. Id have to look over it a few times and decide if i want to do it. Even Tim is saying that right now an original Famicom install isnt ideal due to lack of space for basically everything. AV Famicom i would definitely do for people, but original im not 100% sure of just yet.
Ok,
Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out which one to buy. I can get an AV famicom next spring when I'm in Japan, no problem. I'd definitely be interested in having somebody do it for me...I don't think I have the skills.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Why were some sites saying the early ones had worse video output?
I don't know. My old super Famicom (a first gen) had glorious RGB output.
sixteen-bit
Member
Vertical line issue?
baphomet
Member
Its more tedious than difficult. As long as you have all the tools that is. This probably took 2 hours, but i already had the rgb jack, stereo, and switch wired up. I could have done it much quicker, but i wanted to take my time and double check everything. If you need it done in the future youre welcome to hit me up. Id be glad to do it for you.
I thought my mini looked slightly better in rgb, but the original still looks great. Is it worth going out of the way to find a mini? To me probably not. It just so happened i had to give my original back and someone was selling a mini on here for a good price.
IrishNinja
Member
ooohhhhhhhh bapho those screens look awesome!
Dang, think I'm gonna have to get you to do one for me when the next batch comes.
IrishNinja
Member
Irish is looking to try again soon with a flashcart if you have any titles in mind to try! i cant take screenshots worth a crap but i can try to paint you a picture
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
FF3 (6) with RGB SNES vs. FF6 GBA with lighting patch would be a great comparison.
Shadow Hog
Member
I've tried Drill Dozer on it, it looked okay to me.
Might've been 720p mode and not 1080p mode, though, which I know isn't particularly ideal (720/480 = 1.5 = non-integer scaling; at least with 1080p, you can fit 960 = 2 * 480).
Might've been 720p mode and not 1080p mode, though, which I know isn't particularly ideal (720/480 = 1.5 = non-integer scaling; at least with 1080p, you can fit 960 = 2 * 480).
IrishNinja
Member
^i play most things in 720p, gives the option for scanlines if i think they look good & fit the content, personally
Nice!
I just received a Saturn scart cable yesterday, plugged it into my BVM A series 20" and the sync signal is bad. I'll order another cable.
Shadow Hog
Member
Y'know, speaking of scanlines, I know there's a lot of hullabaloo about how awful they look at 1080p, and I won't disagree that something looks off about them, but... well, the scanlines looked pretty good in SMART_X2 mode, I thought. Downside being that SMART_X2 mode doesn't use up the entire screen, so you have black bars all around the image instead of just on the left and right. *shrug*
Friend of Sonic
Member
What would you guys suggest as far as obtaining a good PVM? I think I want to make that investment. I think I found a link somewhere for some arcade company in New York that has them new, but they no longer stock them? Not sure...
I think as long as it's a Sony and has RGB input it should be good. Obviously the newer models or ones that have been used very little would be better for longevity, but if they're hard to come by you can't be too picky. I picked up a 14" PVM-14L2 (2003 model) for $50 NZD and it was pretty much new. I'd love to grab a bigger one someday for when I have space (i.e. house, not apartment living) but the picture quality is fantastic and I'm happy with the 14" for now.
Fuck the Framemeister XRGB-Mini is expensive. Why is it so expensive even though it is called mini
Well, it depends on your priorities of course.
For me, I prefer to buy the XRGB Mini over a next gen console that is 100$-200$ more expensive.
It will make your old consoles look young again. It's so gorgeous.
I'd also explore the BVM series, and this is coming from someone who's had a few PVM's. The picture quality and the amount of tweaking you can do on a BVM is crazy.
Since you're looking I'd find a local company that buys and sells broadcast equipment and make some calls. When I was looking for my BVM I found one not too far from where I live that had stacks of them all around their office and storage area. RGB heaven.
baphomet
Member
Ive found a bunch just checking craigslist locally. I wouldnt spend more than $200 on the high end for anything personally. A BVM i might drop a bit more on. Theyre easily worth every bit they cost. Its a very deep, expensive rabbit hole though, and i mean that in the best way possible.
baphomet
Member
Sounds good. Just hit me up whenever you're ready and we'll work out all the details then. If you planned on bringing stuff back from Japan we could probably work something out as a trade for doing the mod. After messing with this thing all last night and today I really can't recommend it enough. It actually surpasses my expectations by quite a bit. Honestly, it's fucking magic, lol.
Super Dodge Ball
Just a shot of the back of these 2 consoles I did. Palette switch, 1/8th stereo jack, and the RGB jack. The switch and RGB jack are something I purchased elsewhere for better quality and a nicer looking install. I'm happy with how they turned out.
These look great (both picture and exterior of the console). I'll definitely get one off you!
Yeah, I'll be there in early march...tokyo and kyoto. I'll PM you Q1. I also grabbed a PVM for my forthcoming fami from a guy on shmups in so cal for $100. This saves me a trip or two to LA to get one or two.
These are easy to find in the area but this one seemed like a nice price and his images looked nice. I'm just gonna leave it at the Laguna place for when I'm home for vacation and want to game...I've already got a VGA PGM there as well.
How does it work with games that have some trouble displaying correctly in RGB with the PPU mod, like with Maniac Mansion for example?
baphomet
Member
Is it a specific spot in the game that the pc10 ppu has trouble with? I put it in and so far it works fine using the regular composite palette and the pc10 ppu palette. That was something i hadnt seen anyone really test, but i dont have castlevania 1, immortal, or totally rad. Those are the only ones i know that have issues with with pc10 ppu. I theres other list some and i can check them out.
I really dont think there would be issues being that you can play with the composite palette. Ive heard the immortal (i think) wont even boot in rgb, but i dont have that one either.
ColonelSkills
Member
Baphomet's work is excellent looking, much cleaner case modding than I'd be able to swing.
When I snag one of these boards after they go on sale again I'll definitely look you up.
When I snag one of these boards after they go on sale again I'll definitely look you up.
Keep an eye out for a BVM (not PVM) A or D series on Ebay. There's usually a few on there. The picture on these is a step above the PVM's, i.e. the best money can buy.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Supposedly, the XRGB3 is superior to the Framemeister if latency is your main concern. I think the Framemeister has about 1.5 frames of lag in all modes, whereas there's at least one mode on the XRGB3 that doesn't add any, although it might be more limited feature-wise. Fudoh's site has a pretty good breakdown of how the Micomsoft upscalers compare to each other somewhere.
I'm passing on a high-end upscaler and just waiting for CraftyMech to finish and release the RetroPix, a simple linedoubler that takes a 240p 15khz input and converts it to 480p 31khz VGA. No fancy image processing; just a no-frills, fast-as-possible adapter to make 15khz console/arcade output work on 31khz monitors, which is all I'm really looking for.
Look for online classified ads such as Kijiji. Professionals are getting rid of them en masse since they are no longer useful to them in this post-SD era. They'll be super happy for you to get them off their hands.
Arrange to pick it up yourself. A PVM is a heavy motherfucker (especially if 20 inch or more, mine is 31kg), you don't want it shipped through mail or carrier, it may very well get damaged in transit. If you don't have a car, ask a friend who does to help you out.
As for the model, just make sure it has an RGB input, some low-end models don't, and a PVM without RGB is kinda defeating the point (although they do have kick-ass S-video).
IrishNinja
Member
fuckaCarmack; the device isn't magical enough to make Rage an enjoyable game either
RobFox64tm
Member
I LOVE it! Let me know when you're ready to start doing these on a more wider scale. I'm definately in.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Thanks for the input on the PVM/BVMs everyone! Off to hunt I go...
Bar81
Member
Congrats. Hyped. Waiting on mine to be delivered half way around the world.
- Status