Again, in that case, I'd prefer emulation rather than the mess that happens with composite gets upscaled by an HDTV's internal scaler.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
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Again, in that case, I'd prefer emulation rather than the mess that happens with composite gets upscaled by an HDTV's internal scaler.
RadarScope1
Member
Well, shit. The UK retrogamingcables store only has one of the three cables I'm wanting in stock right now. Doesn't seem worth an international order. And retro_console_accessories has zilch available on their eBay store right now. Does she restock pretty frequently? I hate that I can't just buy these damn things. Who would have thought some A/V cables would be artisanal, hand-crafted items?
Already emailed retro gaming cables about the same issue. They're getting stock in next week.
Huggers
Member
I'm thinking about buying a Sega mark 3. Couple of things. I'm told the rgb out is extremely weak. This can be boosted but the wiring etc is well beyond me. Any ideas of anyone who could help?
Secondly it can play most SMS games with an adapter. Any idea where I can buy that adapter?
Secondly it can play most SMS games with an adapter. Any idea where I can buy that adapter?
Jimnymebob
Member
I tried hooking my PS2 (RGB scart) and Gamecube (composite scart) up to my old CRT using a scart switcher, and while it works, the PS2 is black and white, which I'm guessing is because of PAL reasons.
Can you get a scart switcher that doesn't affect quality at all, and allows you to swap between those 2 signals? Possibly one with at least 3 sockets, because I could put my Mega Drive on there too if I get an RGB cable for it.
Can you get a scart switcher that doesn't affect quality at all, and allows you to swap between those 2 signals? Possibly one with at least 3 sockets, because I could put my Mega Drive on there too if I get an RGB cable for it.
No idea why you get b/w with the PS2... I mean, I only experienced that issue while trying to connect NTSC systems to PAL-only (as in, not multistandard) CRT TVs, through composite or S-video. You should be fine with RGB scart though... Are your PS2's video options properly set up?
And about the switcher, I use the Hama Switch Box AV-100S, which is pretty much lossless.
Jimnymebob
Member
Thanks for the link.
I'm in the UK, so they're both PAL consoles. It just seems to be the same thing that happened when I tried to play games on 60Hz mode on the PS2 when it was connected via composite scart, I.e. Black and white.
When I plug the PS2 RGB scart in the TV directly it works straight away.
I wonder if that's because of your actual switcher, then... Is it possible it only carries composite video? I ask because the Hama box I mentioned has a separate 'RGB' button, which allows you to switch from RGB to composite video on each scart socket.
Jimnymebob
Member
I'm guessing that's the case. But that being said, the switcher is god knows how old.
I'll probably just pick up an RGB cable for the GC, that switcher, and just go fully RGB.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Picked up my CRT this morning. The eBay listing was for $70 but he knocked it down to $50 due to the case damage in the upper right there.
Caught a glimpse at the PVM-20L2 he had while I was there. It looked awesome but is a bit out of my price range at the moment (He wanted $200.) and I don't really have any place to set it up right now because it's freaking huge.
NormalFish
Banned
looks like a solid picture to me
RadarScope1
Member
Awesome. Thanks for the info. I'll wait a bit then.
Picked up my CRT this morning. The eBay listing was for $70 but he knocked it down to $50 due to the case damage in the upper right there.
Caught a glimpse at the PVM-20L2 he had while I was there. It looked awesome but is a bit out of my price range at the moment (He wanted $200.) and I don't really have any place to set it up right now because it's freaking huge.
Congrats! Looks like you got a set that's both pro level and looks properly retro, like you wanted. Glad you're on your way. And if something better comes along you can always upgrade. Enjoy!
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Yeah. There was initially some distortion which I thought might have been a bad S-Video port but it looks like it might be my cable instead, as he brought out a DVD Player and it looked just fine.
He said it had been listed on eBay forever and nobody bit, so I probably could have talked him down to $40 or even $30, but I didn't want to be a prick about it.
Yeah, the display was manufactured in 2005 but it really looks like something straight out of the late 90s.
One of these days I'd love to track down an old Commodore 64 display, though those seem to be rarer and after 30 years may not be in the best shape.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely gonna keep an eye on Craigslist and eBay. If a huge PVM pops up in the area and isn't too expensive I'll just find a place to put it in storage until I get a place to set it up.
Of course now my SNES is acting up. The controller ports seem to be having issues because I'll be playing and all of a sudden the buttons get scrambled. B acts as start and the other face buttons act as the D-Pad. Looks like I'll have to find some replacement parts for that soon.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Sorry for the back-to-back post but this is for a separate thought.
Is there such a thing as a component to S-Video adapter? There's a few devices that I want to plug into the JVC set that I have component cables for (Xbox 360, Wii, PSP go) but no s-video cables for. (And in the case of the PSP go, they don't exist.)
Rather than stepping down all the way to composite in these situations, is there a way to step down from component to s-video via an adapter to retain some of the quality that component would offer?
Is there such a thing as a component to S-Video adapter? There's a few devices that I want to plug into the JVC set that I have component cables for (Xbox 360, Wii, PSP go) but no s-video cables for. (And in the case of the PSP go, they don't exist.)
Rather than stepping down all the way to composite in these situations, is there a way to step down from component to s-video via an adapter to retain some of the quality that component would offer?
Great pick-up, NOLA. And you can always fix the cosmetic issues with some creativity... There's a scratch on the right side of my Trinitron, that I'm planning to sand down and cover with a sticker I'm designing, to recall those classic arcade cabinets side-artworks. I'll post some pics once the job's done.
elmalloc
Member
Is there a dreamcast apprecation thread?
What is the best way to connect a Sega Dreamcast to an HDTV? I have a Framemeister.
I found an almost new Dreamcast on ebay with "svideo cable", but I read I should use VGA or RGB. I didn't buy it yet because the price is kind of high and I doubt I need the Svideo cable.
Thanks for any information - retrorgb is a little confusing on this topic to me.
What is the best way to connect a Sega Dreamcast to an HDTV? I have a Framemeister.
I found an almost new Dreamcast on ebay with "svideo cable", but I read I should use VGA or RGB. I didn't buy it yet because the price is kind of high and I doubt I need the Svideo cable.
Thanks for any information - retrorgb is a little confusing on this topic to me.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Tarin02543
Member
NTSC gaming looks so awesome. The US SNES looks like such a beast. It's like a machine from an alternate time line.
sixteen-bit
Member
I recommend a Toro VGA box. VGA carries RGB but the Toro also has a scart connector. You can use a simple scart to component transcoder if your HDTV has component. You can go for a cheap box, but I'd say just get a cheaper Dreamcast off eBay or craigslist. You might find one at Goodwill too.
Didn't know you had a framemeister. The Toro is your best option. It'll plug right into the XRGB.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
It's a huge difference. I run the same setup, pretty much, except I went from composite.
The only thing worth mentioning is that if you're using the same converter box I am, you might need to crack it open and adjust the color output.
This is the guy: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XSSDPO/?tag=neogaf0e-20
My games were blue/green saturated so I tinkered about with it, getting awesome results now.
Before:
After:
Also, here is a shot over composite, it's ugly as sin.
I'm not telling you. It's the sort of things you need to see for yourself.
Picked up my CRT this morning. The eBay listing was for $70 but he knocked it down to $50 due to the case damage in the upper right there.
Caught a glimpse at the PVM-20L2 he had while I was there. It looked awesome but is a bit out of my price range at the moment (He wanted $200.) and I don't really have any place to set it up right now because it's freaking huge.
Congrats. You had quite the journey!
Yup, this is how I use it with my Framemeister. It would be interesting to test that. I'll try it out if I find my SCART-component box while I set up my new apartment.
More importantly, are you happy with your purchase?
Picked up my CRT this morning. The eBay listing was for $70 but he knocked it down to $50 due to the case damage in the upper right there.
Caught a glimpse at the PVM-20L2 he had while I was there. It looked awesome but is a bit out of my price range at the moment (He wanted $200.) and I don't really have any place to set it up right now because it's freaking huge.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Dunno, haven't put in enough time with it to say one way or another.
Sucks about that case damage, but there's no way I was going to get a comparable display without paying at least $80 on eBay, and that's not including shipping.
Plus shipping a CRT makes me nervous...so much stuff that can be easily damaged from being knocked about.
Edit: If this works out and I decide I want something bigger, there's a 20" Sony PVM-20N5U for $30 on Craiglist with similar inputs (Composite & S-Video) that I might spring for, I just have to drive almost 5 miles roundtrip to get it.
There's also a BVM-1311 much closer that's $120, but that's more than I wanted to spend at the moment.
Edit 2: I'm almost seeing an Olympus OEV203 for $60 with a similar roughly 5-hour roundtrip pickup time...anyone familiar with that?
That's a rebranded Sony PVM-20M2MDU. Test it to see if it's worn out or has burn-in. It was possibly on 24/7 for ages. The cool thing is that it has two sets of RGB inputs. I'm only aware of these medical monitors having that.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I don't think I'm quite ready to pick up a new monitor so soon, I've just never seen an Olympus model while searching for 'em. Here's the craigslist link for any of you out near Lafayette, Louisiana.
Pancakes R Us
Member
This looks awesome. I'm very jealous!
Picked up my CRT this morning. The eBay listing was for $70 but he knocked it down to $50 due to the case damage in the upper right there.
Caught a glimpse at the PVM-20L2 he had while I was there. It looked awesome but is a bit out of my price range at the moment (He wanted $200.) and I don't really have any place to set it up right now because it's freaking huge.
I need to get a P/BVM. And a NTSC-U SNES.
Yes. It outputs 480p through SCART. And that's a very good idea. Someone should test it.
I'd snatch it up while the opportunity is there and put it aside for the time being. Never know when you will see one that cheap again.
Is that the 20N5U above it?
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Just out of curiosity, guys, since I don't plan to buy one anytime soon: does the Framemeister provide any video mode/option, to get rid of the colored overscan you get with some systems - i.e. the Mega Drive/Genesis - when they're displayed on current HDTVs?
This is what I'm talking about:
This is what I'm talking about:
D.Lo
Member
That's the overscan area expected to be cropped on a CRT. You could zoom in. Your TV probably has the options too.Just out of curiosity, guys, since I don't plan to buy one anytime soon: does the Framemeister provide any video mode/option, to get rid of the colored overscan you get with some systems - i.e. the Mega Drive/Genesis - when they're displayed on current HDTVs?
This is what I'm talking about:
If you think that's bad, wait until you see the coloured borders on Mark III/Master System. Or even worse, PAL Master System...
Yeah, it's quite easy to crop/scale the image however you'd like.
There are even custom profiles that can be loaded on to a Micro SD and loaded into the Framemeister to remove overscan, use 4x or 5x integer scaling, and even crop the picture to remove some vertical scrolling artifacts like can be seen on Super Mario Bros. 3 on the NES, all without having to fiddle with the settings yourself!
Yeah exactly, that's what I do with my CRT TV. Vertical geometry settings carry over just fine across each system, whereas I have to manually adjust horizontal size and center, according to which console I want to play.
Sometimes I feel tempted by the god-tier IQ you get out of a Framemeister, but there are things (about retrogaming on current displays) that distract me way more than the issues you can experience with old CRTs - say, geometry imperfections, overscan... - and one of them is those atrocious borders. That's why I was wondering if the XRGB-mini could do the trick, and allow you to 'hide' them, without touching the zoom option of your TV.
Oh, and I've seen a PAL Master System straight up running on a full HD monitor. Man, the glare was... Intense.
Ok, this sounds pretty awesome and interesting.
I'm just curious, so I don't want to waste your/anyone's time, but... Is there any video showing this in action? Something like a before-after kind of comparison?
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
So my SNES S-Video cable is a pile of garbage apparently. There's a short somewhere along the line and I had the twist and fidget with the damn thing for 20 minutes for it to start working, and when it did there's a clear visible area in the center of the screen that's lighter than the rest. (It did this on my old TV as well, so it's definitely not the new CRT.)
Can anyone recommend a quality one?
Can anyone recommend a quality one?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
OEM
Can anyone recommend me a quality one that won't cost more than the CRT itself?
NormalFish
Banned
I'd just look for the thickest S-video cable you can find with the minimal number of cables coming out of it (that is to say, no composite video. Just audio and svideo).
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I'm tempted to go buy both and stick 'em in a closet for whenever mine crap out.
I just don't know if I want to spend that much time on the road...gah.
I got this and worked perfectly well, plus no composite on it as well.
RadarScope1
Member
There is a seller on eBay (not retro_console_accessories) that sells s-vid snes cables. They are hand made like other good sellers, I think. And it's s-vid only no composite. He bills it as the "best" snes s-vid cable. I think it had good reviews. Been a while since I've seen the store, though.
I ordered a $10 "Cinpel" S-video cable from Amazon, currently sold out. It worked perfectly fine and I later obtained an official cable to make sure I could not do better. Both gave an identical picture as far as I could tell. The Cinpel looked no different from a bunch of $5-10 cables on ebay. Pick one that looks good and at worse you're out a few bucks. Divineocn sells one for $3.47 but I can't speak to its quality.
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