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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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So, about two weeks ago the ebay-seller we all know and love, was going to "post something for me tomorrow". And even though Ive been talking to her since, there is still nothing - while my Framemeister have been here for almost a week. I know she has a ton of stuff to do, but Im really starting to get impatient, as I want so bad to set up my new rgb-setup :(

you sure she didn't post it? She did post a handful of custom things a little while back?
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
you sure she didn't post it? She did post a handful of custom things a little while back?

Honestly, I have been considering the possibility that I overlooked it (and sent her a message about it that she has yet to respond to), but I dont think so. I saw she posted a lot of customer requests, but they didnt really fit with what I asked for, and also, dont you think she would notice me considering its a pretty big request (5 cables)?
 

TheWraith

Member
Honestly, I have been considering the possibility that I overlooked it (and sent her a message about it that she has yet to respond to), but I dont think so. I saw she posted a lot of customer requests, but they didnt really fit with what I asked for, and also, dont you think she would notice me considering its a pretty big request (5 cables)?

I sent her a message two weeks ago...and she hasn't responded to me at all.
 

Mega

Banned
She's probably working through a large backlog of requests just like yours. This goes back to what someone said earlier about posting a list of modders... you find someone who can do a thing you want and pretty soon a dozen or more people are making similar requests and that resource really isn't available anymore and you could be waiting weeks or longer for your demand to be met. Too few of them and too many of us needy fucks. :)

Let me link you to the manual:
https://www.extron.com/download/files/userman/System-8-10-plus_ManualF.pdf

The wiring is on page 21 here.

Thanks again for your help.

Tbh I don't know how I can help since I don't have this switch nor the connectors to be able to give it a try. Have you considered getting a Crosspoint? They're really cheap on ebay, you can connect multiple outputs, and with those people know with complete certainty how to wire up the 5-pole audio connectors.
 

Mega

Banned
The new JVC TM-A13SU arrived yesterday. This thing is tiny and very light, even moreso than my small cube-shaped PVM-14L2!

I first tested it with the Revo K-101+, which has Composite Out... Mario Kart Super Circuit and Gradius looked quite good. The P22 phosphors are the kind found in lower end monitors and consumer sets but they GLOW: very bright, very colorful. Combined with the lower TVL they do a surprisingly nice job handling Composite than when I tested the same GBA games on my PVM-14L2 (pretty blurry there).

There is something about this combination of the phosphors, the modest TVL and the almost non-distinct scanlines (almost, still faintly visible if you look closely), and what I'm assuming is a shadowmask, that handles the N64 magnificently. This monitor tops out with S-video and it handily beats the pants off RGB N64 running on the high-end, super-sharp BVM and JVC. Easily beats my oddball setup with HDMI N64 to Component converter connected to the JVC (scrapped! it was a fun experiment but it looks better on my plasma HDTV as intended). RGB N64 on the Ikegami with soft scanlines may be a very close second but I've yet to test that. The budget S-video monitor with stock N64 is the clear winner.

Lots of pics ahead but I really wanted to show how good of a job this little monitor does by selecting an array of games, some that are visually really challenging (mainly look like crap) on my other monitors. I need to point that the Vigilante 8 title screen is 480i but the characteristics of this screen make it look like a flawless 480p in person... I need to test RE2 and other 480i stuff on this little beast to see if it holds true in gameplay.

Oo9t7Y0.jpg


b9SWCI9.jpg
sDuHNyQ.jpg


u2oMf1R.jpg
59sCAsH.jpg


IyxziK1.jpg
jPzM0ek.jpg


5nU4erg.jpg
7KMRlRp.jpg


The image on the right is from my old PVM-20M4U
CzZbh6z.jpg
nfyoOOP.jpg


Aw1WGhC.jpg
IvwJIpa.jpg


TjqOimc.jpg


i1YR2Vg.jpg
 

SegaShack

Member
She's probably working through a large backlog of requests just like yours. This goes back to what someone said earlier about posting a list of modders... you find someone who can do a thing you want and pretty soon a dozen or more people are making similar requests and that resource really isn't available anymore and you could be waiting weeks or longer for your demand to be met. Too few of them and too many of us needy fucks. :)



Tbh I don't know how I can help since I don't have this switch nor the connectors to be able to give it a try. Have you considered getting a Crosspoint? They're really cheap on ebay, you can connect multiple outputs, and with those people know with complete certainty how to wire up the 5-pole audio connectors.
Gotcha, well thanks again for all the information you've given me.
 

Madao

Member
now that GBI comes with a config file that lets swiss configure it before loading it, i changed the default aspect ratio since it cut off games if you zoomed them in at around 2.6x something and i wanted to see how 3x looked properly.

the good news is that i can boot it in 3:2 and, paired with the FM's Smartx2 filter, it produces 1:1 mode with the correct aspect ratio. before that, i was getting 4:3 and Smartx2 squished it.

the bad news is that GBI's 3x scaling looks bad. it seems it only looks properly at 2x and 4x but 4x cuts a lot since it's way beyond the GC's output resolution.
in the end it's not a big deal since these games are not meant to be blown up so much.

btw, anyone knows how to use the networking feature? or what does it even do?
 

nateify

Member
the good news is that i can boot it in 3:2 and, paired with the FM's Smartx2 filter, it produces 1:1 mode with the correct aspect ratio. before that, i was getting 4:3 and Smartx2 squished it.

the bad news is that GBI's 3x scaling looks bad. it seems it only looks properly at 2x and 4x but 4x cuts a lot since it's way beyond the GC's output resolution.

Wouldn't it be best to use the LL version of GBI to use the 160p res at 1x in a ~240p frame and crop + scale 6x with the framemeister?
 
Mega, that TM-A13SU looks excellent. The shadow mask and the triad structure reminds me very much of classic arcade game CRTs from the early 80s. 320 TVL sounds about right for me, remember, even though the monitors were much larger it was the early 80s and CRT tech got a lot of refinement the next couple of decades.
 

Khaz

Member
The new JVC TM-A13SU arrived yesterday. This thing is tiny and very light, even moreso than my small cube-shaped PVM-14L2!

I really enjoy the shadow mask look. It's not as scanliney as an aperture grille trinitron, but I like it.
 
now that GBI comes with a config file that lets swiss configure it before loading it, i changed the default aspect ratio since it cut off games if you zoomed them in at around 2.6x something and i wanted to see how 3x looked properly.

the good news is that i can boot it in 3:2 and, paired with the FM's Smartx2 filter, it produces 1:1 mode with the correct aspect ratio. before that, i was getting 4:3 and Smartx2 squished it.

the bad news is that GBI's 3x scaling looks bad. it seems it only looks properly at 2x and 4x but 4x cuts a lot since it's way beyond the GC's output resolution.
in the end it's not a big deal since these games are not meant to be blown up so much.

btw, anyone knows how to use the networking feature? or what does it even do?

Do you know of a good resource on how to use GBI and Swiss? Because my googling is turning up nothing but stuff that already assumes you know how to set it up and what needs to be done.
 
I've been on the lookout for a large, quality CRT for a while, and got lucky this weekend. Managed to snag a Sony KV32FS100 in great shape for $5 at a yard sale. My BIL and I somehow managed to get it to the second floor of my house today. Got it all hooked up and it looks GREAT. I'm so stoked right now. I don't own any modded systems so currently I have hooked up:

SNES via svideo
Genesis via composite
NES via composite
N64 via svideo
PS2 via component

The picture from the PS2 is amazing... I have a different PS2 hooked up via component to my HD TV and it does not look anywhere near as good.

I may eventually get some of the systems modded to allow for better video output but I'm very happy with it right now.

Also these things are crazy heavy. Not looking forward to moving it ever again. Probably why I got it for $5!
 
Recommendation: get SCART cables for your Genesis and SNES (well, maybe SNES; S-Video's still pretty good) and a SCART->component converter for even more fun times.

Of course, that's technically starting down the rabbit hole that is RGB gaming, but...
 
so i just bought a fully rgb modified turbo duo console with a new lens. mistake? dont know much about the console outside of it having one of my fav games ever (dragons curse)
 

Mega

Banned
Those shots are gorgeous, Mega, they're so vibrant. More pics I say, mooooore!
I really enjoy the shadow mask look. It's not as scanliney as an aperture grille trinitron, but I like it.
Mega, that TM-A13SU looks excellent. The shadow mask and the triad structure reminds me very much of classic arcade game CRTs from the early 80s. 320 TVL sounds about right for me, remember, even though the monitors were much larger it was the early 80s and CRT tech got a lot of refinement the next couple of decades.

Thanks, I was skeptical at first. It's pretty bare bones in terms of adjustments that can be done in the regular and service menus. Hardly anything really. But I'm really happy with this latest CRT purchase and how it turned out. I'll try it out some more but I can safely say this is the best I have ever seen N64 games on native hardware. Zelda, Paper Mario and the Rare games are particularly hideous on my sharper setups. It was a pleasant surprise to see what this little monitor could do with them.
 
Forgot to post this. Pretty stoke to get my gscartw switches for my setup. We are moving in the next 2 months, and this will be central to the "master plan" setup!

JYZaelQm.jpg
 
you don't want audio breakout, unless you're plugging it into an external audio solution. If you're in the US, buy from retro_console_accessories on ebay instead.

Always use an external solution with a PVM like the OEV203! Internal audio is mono-only and driven by a crappy cardboard driver like those found in a transistor radio!
 

AgeEighty

Member
Hey all, I've got an NES-101 that I'd like to get connected via RGB. I know there are people who do mods for this, but they seem to involve replacement boards like NESRGB which appears to bypass some of the original hardware. I want RGB (with the intent to eventually connect to a Framemeister), but I don't want to sacrifice any faithfulness to the original gameplay experience.

What's my best option? Is the NESRGB mod totally faithful to the original hardware?
 

IrishNinja

Member
so, i got the trinotron setup last night (no easy task) and ive got more wiring to do, but on a quick demo, i didn't get any image - ive that SCART to YUV/component adapter plugged in & set said TV to VIDEO but nothin'. gonna try again tonight, maybe i'm missing something!

i don't have a component cable, but the roommate insists a standard AV one should suffice, so long as i keep the plugs consistent, wonder if that's affecting things.
 

Peltz

Member
Hey all, I've got an NES-101 that I'd like to get connected via RGB. I know there are people who do mods for this, but they seem to involve replacement boards like NESRGB which appears to bypass some of the original hardware. I want RGB (with the intent to eventually connect to a Framemeister), but I don't want to sacrifice any faithfulness to the original gameplay experience.

What's my best option? Is the NESRGB mod totally faithful to the original hardware?
It's your only realistic option unless you want to grab a Titler for thousands of dollars or gut a play choice 10 which won't give you accurate colors.

It's the standard NES RGB mod that everyone uses these days. I haven't seen any negative impressions about it.
 

AgeEighty

Member
It's your only realistic option unless you want to grab a Titler for thousands of dollars or gut a play choice 10 which won't give you accurate colors.

It's the standard NES RGB mod that everyone uses these days. I haven't seen any negative impressions about it.

Thanks.

I've got one of the new LG OLED sets and I'm trying to decide if I should get a Framemeister now, or wait until some future day when they come out with a new model that has 4K support (though I'm guessing that could be a long wait).
 
Thanks.

I've got one of the new LG OLED sets and I'm trying to decide if I should get a Framemeister now, or wait until some future day when they come out with a new model that has 4K support (though I'm guessing that could be a long wait).

Framemeister with 720p output on a 4k tv should look pretty good since there would be even pixel scaling from 240->720 and then even scaling from 720->2160.

so, i got the trinotron setup last night (no easy task) and ive got more wiring to do, but on a quick demo, i didn't get any image - ive that SCART to YUV/component adapter plugged in & set said TV to VIDEO but nothin'. gonna try again tonight, maybe i'm missing something!

i don't have a component cable, but the roommate insists a standard AV one should suffice, so long as i keep the plugs consistent, wonder if that's affecting things.

Any RCA jack cable will work fine since they're just differently colored with "standard" vs "component" cables.

I don't have a Trinitron but usually component was on a different input from "VIDEO" which usually meant composite. That's probably all it is unless your transcoder is busted or you have a problem with the console output -- like if it's a PS1 do the obvious thing and push the multi-out cable in really firmly.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Any RCA jack cable will work fine since they're just differently colored with "standard" vs "component" cables.

I don't have a Trinitron but usually component was on a different input from "VIDEO" which usually meant composite. That's probably all it is unless your transcoder is busted or you have a problem with the console output -- like if it's a PS1 do the obvious thing and push the multi-out cable in really firmly.

ah, great! just need to sort which channel is component then - thanks for this!
 

Peltz

Member
Thanks.

I've got one of the new LG OLED sets and I'm trying to decide if I should get a Framemeister now, or wait until some future day when they come out with a new model that has 4K support (though I'm guessing that could be a long wait).

Tough choice. I feel like a new one is inevitable and I personally am not terribly fond of the framemeister. I think I would wait it out at this point.
 

Arzehn

Member
Thanks, I was skeptical at first. It's pretty bare bones in terms of adjustments that can be done in the regular and service menus. Hardly anything really. But I'm really happy with this latest CRT purchase and how it turned out. I'll try it out some more but I can safely say this is the best I have ever seen N64 games on native hardware. Zelda, Paper Mario and the Rare games are particularly hideous on my sharper setups. It was a pleasant surprise to see what this little monitor could do with them.

Since both your ikegami and jvc monitor's are 13" shadow mask you should do a comparison. Would be interesting to see difference between 320TVL and 500 TVL for shadow mask sets.
 
I have a Trinitron; component is definitely still a "VIDEO". In my case, VIDEO 4 (which is also the only one to have a component input; it and two others also have S-Video, and the fourth, on the front of the TV, is strictly composite-only).

And yeah, if you're really in a pinch and don't have component cables, a set of composite cables will suffice. It's the same connector. You just need to make sure the ends are consistent - like making sure that if you plugged yellow into green (Y) on one end, it's in green on the other end too, not blue (Pb) or red (Pr) or one of the stereo ports (how).
 

IrishNinja

Member
I have a Trinitron; component is definitely still a "VIDEO". In my case, VIDEO 4 (which is also the only one to have a component input; it and two others also have S-Video, and the fourth, on the front of the TV, is strictly composite-only).

And yeah, if you're really in a pinch and don't have component cables, a set of composite cables will suffice. It's the same connector. You just need to make sure the ends are consistent - like making sure that if you plugged yellow into green (Y) on one end, it's in green on the other end too, not blue (Pb) or red (Pr) or one of the stereo ports (how).

yeah, i don't have a remote and the button i pressed on the top of the set last night was just VIDEO or something else, i'm gonna sort it out tonight for sure! and yeah, good call on the cabling.
 

Madao

Member
Wouldn't it be best to use the LL version of GBI to use the 160p res at 1x in a ~240p frame and crop + scale 6x with the framemeister?


possibly. i'll tackle that later.

Do you know of a good resource on how to use GBI and Swiss? Because my googling is turning up nothing but stuff that already assumes you know how to set it up and what needs to be done.

sadly, it's like what you saw. there's no good resources.
i brute forced my way into it and figured how to run it by trial and error.

i can give you some instructions so you at least know the general directions instead of aimlessly trying things.

instructions to get GBI running:

first, you need a way to run homebrew on GC. there's many ways depending on what you own.

method 1: a hard mod. this basically means your GC is hardmodded to run copied discs. burning the swiss and GBI files to it and then loading the disc lets you run them (i haven't used this so i dunno if there's extra steps)

method 2: a SD media launcher. for this, you buy a SD media launcher that comes with an Action Replay disc. the SDML is an adapter that lets you plug an SD card to a GC memory card slot. you put files in the SD card and when you load the AR disc, a menu pops up and you start the app you want. there's also a way to build your own adapter if you can't find the SDML adapter but you'd still need software capable of handling it.

method 3: using a hacked savegame installed to a GC Memory card using Wii homebrew. this method has become more viable lately since there's a couple of games whose saves can be hacked. games that work include SSBM, TWW, TP and the Pokemon Colosseum/XD games. this is useful if you already have a Wii since you don't need any additional hardware, except for one of the games and a GC memory card. loading the homebrew files depends on the game but it's simple most of the time (go to one specific place or menu and the hack triggers)

after you have the ability to run homebrew through any of the 3 methods, the first program you run is Swiss. this program lets you configure the output resolution and other things before loading an app. this also lets you set the options for the regular GBI app (LL and ULL can't be customized. the customization introduces lag due to the framebuffer needed and these versions' purpose is to reduce lag)

after that, you run GBI and are ready to play your GBA games on TV. the latest GBI supports GBA as a controller on controller port 2.

the GC forever forums has threads with the required files. you can find GBI and the softmods needed to run it.
 
method 3: using a hacked savegame installed to a GC Memory card using Wii homebrew. this method has become more viable lately since there's a couple of games whose saves can be hacked. games that work include SSBM, TWW, TP and the Pokemon Colosseum/XD games. thsi is useful if you already have a Wii since you don't need any additional hardware, except for one of the games and a GC memory card.

woah.

I didn't know about this. link?
**
Ordered a luma sync SCART cable with rca break out from retro_console_accessories. Just need to pick a mixer now.

Am I correct in thinking I can convert the standard red/white stereo rca to one of the various single-connector stereo inputs? Are there restrictions on that? As long as it's analogue it's okay?
 
is royalmail international from retro gaming gables uk always slow af? i got fast trackable international shipping and its been "on its way and has left the uk" since the 26th of april.
 

Galdelico

Member
Still in my neverending quest to get a PVM/JVC, I have a few questions about the Sony Pvm 1440 QM. Hope you don't mind me asking.

Since its size and after having spoken with the seller about it, I decided to try and get one of those shipped.
- So, first of all. Is it a decent monitor to introduce myself to this kind of displays, compared to a consumer Trinitron CRT TV?
- Seems pretty RGB-ready, as far as I've read. Would I just need the usual BNC-to-scart adapters to be ready to go, right?
- Do you know if it comes with any sort of service menu? The seller told me the frame can be centered horizontally and vertically, but he didn't know about possible H/V-size sliders. I ask that because I'm quite wary of the infamous colored overscan with some Mega Drive games, which I find extremely distracting, and that I managed to (almost pixel-perfectly) crop offscreen on my Trinitron.
- Any tips/major cons about this particular model I should be aware of?

As usual, thanks in advance guys!
 
possibly. i'll tackle that later.



sadly, it's like what you saw. there's no good resources.
i brute forced my way into it and figured how to run it by trial and error.

i can give you some instructions so you at least know the general directions instead of aimlessly trying things.

instructions to get GBI running:

first, you need a way to run homebrew on GC. there's many ways depending on what you own.

method 1: a hard mod. this basically means your GC is hardmodded to run copied discs. burning the swiss and GBI files to it and then loading the disc lets you run them (i haven't used this so i dunno if there's extra steps)

method 2: a SD media launcher. for this, you buy a SD media launcher that comes with an Action Replay disc. the SDML is an adapter that lets you plug an SD card to a GC memory card slot. you put files in the SD card and when you load the AR disc, a menu pops up and you start the app you want. there's also a way to build your own adapter if you can't find the SDML adapter but you'd still need software capable of handling it.

method 3: using a hacked savegame installed to a GC Memory card using Wii homebrew. this method has become more viable lately since there's a couple of games whose saves can be hacked. games that work include SSBM, TWW, TP and the Pokemon Colosseum/XD games. this is useful if you already have a Wii since you don't need any additional hardware, except for one of the games and a GC memory card. loading the homebrew files depends on the game but it's simple most of the time (go to one specific place or menu and the hack triggers)

after you have the ability to run homebrew through any of the 3 methods, the first program you run is Swiss. this program lets you configure the output resolution and other things before loading an app. this also lets you set the options for the regular GBI app (LL and ULL can't be customized. the customization introduces lag due to the framebuffer needed and these versions' purpose is to reduce lag)

after that, you run GBI and are ready to play your GBA games on TV. the latest GBI supports GBA as a controller on controller port 2.

the GC forever forums has threads with the required files. you can find GBI and the softmods needed to run it.

Thanks for the link and info! A few weeks back I went ahead and ordered the SD Media Launcher. Part of the problem I was running into was just knowing what files were needed and where they went on the damn memory card.

I've been able to get swiss running, but GBI gave me a ton of problems hopefully with the link I can figure out some details on why that was.

Cheers!
 
is royalmail international from retro gaming gables uk always slow af? i got fast trackable international shipping and its been "on its way and has left the uk" since the 26th of april.

Unfortunately yes. I don't think it's retro gaming cables' fault, I think Royalmail is just slow as shit. When I was getting my framemeister and RGB cables I order all of it basically at the same time. My framemeister was at my door 2 days later, and the RGB cables took like 2 - 3 weeks to show up. Since then I've noticed pretty my anything I order from the UK takes a long ass time to show up.
 

Peltz

Member
Am I correct in thinking I can convert the standard red/white stereo rca to one of the various single-connector stereo inputs? Are there restrictions on that? As long as it's analogue it's okay?

Single-connector stereo inputs? I'm not sure what those are. Could you post a pic?

Edit:
Like rca to 3.5mm jack? Yeah, as long as it's analog you can do anything really easily.
Oh. I think it should be okay. Just don't mix them to create a mono input.
 
Am I correct in thinking I can convert the standard red/white stereo rca to one of the various single-connector stereo inputs? Are there restrictions on that? As long as it's analogue it's okay?

Like rca to 3.5mm jack? Yeah, as long as it's analog you can do anything really easily.
 

Kawika

Member
possibly. i'll tackle that later.



sadly, it's like what you saw. there's no good resources.
i brute forced my way into it and figured how to run it by trial and error.

i can give you some instructions so you at least know the general directions instead of aimlessly trying things.

instructions to get GBI running:

first, you need a way to run homebrew on GC. there's many ways depending on what you own.

method 1: a hard mod. this basically means your GC is hardmodded to run copied discs. burning the swiss and GBI files to it and then loading the disc lets you run them (i haven't used this so i dunno if there's extra steps)

method 2: a SD media launcher. for this, you buy a SD media launcher that comes with an Action Replay disc. the SDML is an adapter that lets you plug an SD card to a GC memory card slot. you put files in the SD card and when you load the AR disc, a menu pops up and you start the app you want. there's also a way to build your own adapter if you can't find the SDML adapter but you'd still need software capable of handling it.

method 3: using a hacked savegame installed to a GC Memory card using Wii homebrew. this method has become more viable lately since there's a couple of games whose saves can be hacked. games that work include SSBM, TWW, TP and the Pokemon Colosseum/XD games. this is useful if you already have a Wii since you don't need any additional hardware, except for one of the games and a GC memory card. loading the homebrew files depends on the game but it's simple most of the time (go to one specific place or menu and the hack triggers)

after you have the ability to run homebrew through any of the 3 methods, the first program you run is Swiss. this program lets you configure the output resolution and other things before loading an app. this also lets you set the options for the regular GBI app (LL and ULL can't be customized. the customization introduces lag due to the framebuffer needed and these versions' purpose is to reduce lag)

after that, you run GBI and are ready to play your GBA games on TV. the latest GBI supports GBA as a controller on controller port 2.

the GC forever forums has threads with the required files. you can find GBI and the softmods needed to run it.

I got the SD Media Launcher from code junkies in the uk. I was able to download swiss but I really don't see the options like setting it to 240p. I did however find the Game Boy Interface and was able to get that working.

With regard to swiss. Downloading that whole nightly build is confusing. I don't know what I needed to and I was just thankful that I got the GBI interface running. I would prefer to run my own Game Boy player Disc at times in 240p mode. I've seen people force 240p mode on youtube but I don't think I downloaded that option when I picked up the nightly build.

I wish more of these mod makers would consider quality of life issues when it comes to using that software. Often times I think they make it obtuse on purpose. There has yet to be a program like this I didn't figure out after a while but its just frustrating when you are new to the program.
 
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