I just found that. Amazed it's still in stock.
I'll order one once I get my hands on a gbp base unit.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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I just found that. Amazed it's still in stock.
I'll order one once I get my hands on a gbp base unit.
I wonder if this is the reason why my Paypal payment still has to go through. I had to select the disc region before adding the item to the cart, but maybe they need to do some kind of extra checking?
cyborgnumberblue
Member
If anybody in the Boston area is interested in a Sony PVM-1354Q 13" monitor, please PM me. I know it was a pain in the ass for me to find monitors in this area, so hopefully I'll be helping you out.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I have their cables for my SNES, Saturn, NeoGeo, Genesis, and as my Scart to Framemeister cable, and not a single issue with noise or anything else.
Is color range on shrink?
i have it in bypass.
Oh, I never used that, I always use the preferred color range, like shrink on gens 3-6 consoles.
from what i've read, that option just passes whatever the input signal's colorspace is. no changes.
Well, I'm not sure why your shots aren't turning out the way they should, they do perfectly for me and I only use that program!!!
hmm
have you changed anything in the other 2 tabs next to custom properties? i have one for video decode and another for video amplifier.
I only changed the sharpness to get rid of jail bars and such.
i see.
i changed it too a while back but i don't know what to test to get the correct value.
Test it out with many games!!!
i see. i do wonder which games are more suited for this...
It's completely unnatural! It's tossing out half the image and taking scanline obsession to a strange level. I don't mean to chide anyone who wants to try this out of curiosity...I love scanlines as my half dozen monitors will show. But only in places where they actually makes sense.
Oh I don't do it for the scanlines, I just prefer a stable image. I'd rather that than deal with the flickering.
Graphically demanding ones.=p
That flickering is most likely interlacing, which sucks.
240p is a poor man's 480p for consoles capable of 480p
don't kill me please! it's a joke
the only place i can accept scanlines is a CRT. on LCD, etc i'd rather have a clean image with good upscaling.
Well it's kinda true, if money was no object I'm sure I could find a 480p professional CRT!
And yeh I only do this on my CRTa that cannot do 480p; on a modern TV I use component cables and go for 480p every time.
NormalFish
Banned
Alright boys and girls, on the last stretch of my audio journey. Lets see if someone can help me double check this:
Here's the mixer (Mackie Mix8):
I'll be plugging my mic in to channel 1 using a 3.5mm to 1/4in adapter, though I may end up holding off on this right now.
My SFC and PS2 will go in to channels 3/4 and 5/6 using stereo rca cables adapted to 1/4in.
Headphones will go into the phones slot, of course.
Here's where I'm not so sure:
I'm thinking I will run the ctrl out in to the 3.5mm line in on my computer for recording/livestreaming while using my headphones.
Speakers (which have a built in amp afaik) are Main Out.
So then where can I safely plug in my computer audio IN? Should I put this in Tape, or can aux return second as an input channel, just with less options for balancing?
And is ctrl out the best for recording? Tape in seems like it might be a better option, but it's hard to tell since a lot of the information I've found on the net refers to things that aren't relevant or use jargon I can't follow.
Hopefully all this is looking good and you guys aren't sick to death of this saga lol
Here's the mixer (Mackie Mix8):
I'll be plugging my mic in to channel 1 using a 3.5mm to 1/4in adapter, though I may end up holding off on this right now.
My SFC and PS2 will go in to channels 3/4 and 5/6 using stereo rca cables adapted to 1/4in.
Headphones will go into the phones slot, of course.
Here's where I'm not so sure:
I'm thinking I will run the ctrl out in to the 3.5mm line in on my computer for recording/livestreaming while using my headphones.
Speakers (which have a built in amp afaik) are Main Out.
So then where can I safely plug in my computer audio IN? Should I put this in Tape, or can aux return second as an input channel, just with less options for balancing?
And is ctrl out the best for recording? Tape in seems like it might be a better option, but it's hard to tell since a lot of the information I've found on the net refers to things that aren't relevant or use jargon I can't follow.
Hopefully all this is looking good and you guys aren't sick to death of this saga lol
I agree with mega. I have a couple of their cables, and they look just fine. Even on a 50 inch HDTV where things can't hide behind shadow masks and non scan lines.
I agree with mega... again. Surprise, surprise. I'll add that even for 480i material, going down to 240p is a little much, but I guess I can understand it being a comfort issue with 480i CRTs. If one were to do this just for wanting dat scanline look though, it would be crazy. I don't even like processing 480i through a line doubler as it ruins detail, but I understand if people do it for the sake of low latency. But if you aren't doing a proper deinterlace on a progressive set while playing an RTS or Final Fantasy VIII... Ur duin it wrng. lol
Use the sharpness test on the 240p test suite and follow these instructions.
Also, I recommend using the THX optimizer found on various DVDs for proper gamma calibration.
They could mostly be fine, but there was enough talk here early on about noise and poor quality/non-existent shielding that I avoided them. Nowhere is local for me either so I have to get it right first time or deal with nightmarish international returns.
I replied again after to clarify
They could mostly be fine, but there was enough talk here early on about noise and poor quality/non-existent shielding that I avoided them. Nowhere is local for me either so I have to get it right first time or deal with nightmarish international returns.
I replied again after to clarify
I'd like to see screen captures of said noise. My Saturn looks very sharp and so does everything else since the SCRAT to JP21 adapter I have is from them.
I also accommodated your clarification. So I understand your situation. I just wanted to bolster the support for full resolution otherwise.
NormalFish
Banned
I think retrogamingcables used to be worse than they are now. When I was first getting in to this, they definitely had a bad rep both her and on various other sites. These days I don't hear anything bad, really.
I mostly order from retro_console_accessories because she's 5 hours away, rather than half a world away.
I mostly order from retro_console_accessories because she's 5 hours away, rather than half a world away.
They're probably in this thread if you go back far enough. I had no issues with one cable I got from them (SCART to BNC) but I since replaced it with a Monster cable and sold it off.
Sure. We're actually in agreement there. I don't think many people would run their GC at 240p though to be honest, except for when using the Gameboy Player. Given the component cable situation, I guess it can be a quirky alternative. Stops me getting headaches too which is nice.
IrishNinja
Member
shouts to FL-GAF! man, i hope she restocks soon
Heads up
https://m.facebook.com/groups/5815094406?view=permalink&id=10154165696584407
Game Boy DMG RGB output chip available soon! From the sounds of it, affordable and hopefully easy to install. Buy a DMG with a busted screen, buy the RGB chip,success
You could even build a game boy console for cheap and call it like, the super game boy! Which is actually, jokes aside, a really awesome idea.
Adding an external controller to the DMG is easy enough already. Build a 3D printed shell (cart slot on top, NES pad port at front, AC power and VGA/RGB at the back) and you've got a sweet custom console.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/5815094406?view=permalink&id=10154165696584407
Game Boy DMG RGB output chip available soon! From the sounds of it, affordable and hopefully easy to install. Buy a DMG with a busted screen, buy the RGB chip,success
You could even build a game boy console for cheap and call it like, the super game boy! Which is actually, jokes aside, a really awesome idea.
Adding an external controller to the DMG is easy enough already. Build a 3D printed shell (cart slot on top, NES pad port at front, AC power and VGA/RGB at the back) and you've got a sweet custom console.
trying out the THX optimizer, it feels like i've opened a new can of worms lol. suddendly there's a ton of variables to change.
i noticed my BD player has its own brightness settings. should those be left in neutral and only change the settings on the TV and capture card?
also, for the capture card, should i calibrate my monitor first by putting the DVD in my PC and then run it through the BD player to see it on the capture card?
If your player has a setting for gamma non-linearity like 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, etc... Set it to 2.2. If it has brightness and contrast control, leave it in factory settings and try just calibrating the TV and capture card. The goal is to get good settings that'll be ~ equal on all devices.
i see. i did that and kept the default settings. since it only had brightness and contrast and no gamma levels.
i then switched to the 240p test suite and the brightness settings fit with the instructions there.
i also checked the settings with my capture card and it looks like the capture card's settings were fine for the most part. the sharpness control doesn't seem to do anything when raised from the default and it makes the image blurrier if i reduce it below default.
i dunno why my shots aren't as sharp as others after all this. the only things i can think of is either faulty drivers or the long chain between my consoles and capture card is causing image quality loss somewhere.
i'll post a pic of mine next the shot i'm talking about so that you guys can see what's up.
edit: here's the pics
reference image.
my results. (using shrink)
my results. (using bypass)
i only used that image because it showed the difference the most. it's harder to see with the patterns.
parappatherapper
Member
Sony PVM seems to be your best bet but not cheap. I picked up a 21" Sony Trinitron last week off freecycle that is great but the N64 aint great.
Gumtree. For example, I got this yesterday. For free.
panasonic 25" crt. RGB input via SCART of course, as standard here in the UK. Picked it up after work. It's awesome!
Only have a gamecube plugged in so far, but it gives a glorious image via RGB:
speedlolita
Member
Someone on a forum I'm on was giving away a 20M4E to anyone around the Cheltenham area.
Generally though, you can't really lose with any CRT and an RGB input - as long as the geometry hasn't been screwed up.
Generally though, you can't really lose with any CRT and an RGB input - as long as the geometry hasn't been screwed up.
I see. Well, shrink is definitely the loser. The reference and bypass are hard to tell apart aside from the H scale.
For Scart TVs, everything goes though Scart.
Fancy models can have extra input sockets for convenience, but Scart was designed to accommodate all sorts of analogue signals, so you can feed it through a simple adapter.
What?!
No. No no noooo. RGB SCART is the pinnacle of quality. You literally cannot get better. RGB SCART is the connection of the gods that us in the UK and Europe were blessed with whilst America was left to suffer with RF and composhit only.
Your one and only concern when buying a CRT is DOES IT HAVE RGB SCART? YES? IT GOOD.
Oh dear.
You have a lot of learning to do. Yes, it's fact. Literally everyone in this thread can confirm that.
RGB SCART is the gold standard. It is the absolute best you can get. It is what everyone here is striving to have on all of their consoles. Not composite. Not component. Definitely not S Video. RGB. SCART.
No N64 consoles are RGB ready but some can be modded.
SNES, PS1, Mega Drive display RGB out of the box as long as you have a proper RGB SCART cable.
Finally, you live in the UK. If you get a CRT (99% of the UK ones have RGB SCART) and use anything other than that for gaming, you are insane.
Shin Johnpv
Member
If you look online you can find the same complaints about retro_gaming_accessories I've seen a fairly extensive thread going into build quality issues. It's the same for everything else, I also wouldn't be surprised if a good number of people claiming they have noise issues haven't even ever used one of their cables. Just parroting what others have said.
Been trying to acquire proper screen captures with no luck, but I've been doing some personal comparisons between Silent Hill 2 played back on an actual PS2 and PS3 set to 480p.
My notes only apply to what I see going on with my Plasma. PS2 on my Plasma has some strange artifacts around edges. It's like edges are "doubled." At the right angle it makes objects look zig-zagged or torn. It goes beyond the typical aliasing we're used to seeing in console games. Color is also more muted. This makes the back of Jame's head almost blend in with the dirt in the trail to and from the grave yard. Also, There's a strange broken mirror look to the FMVs.
On PS3 clouds of fog are more distinct and voluminous and color is more saturated. This makes the Picture quality more comparable to the Xbox version. Which is a good thing. I might say the PS3 is doing a better job at deinterlacing than my TV, but I can't be sure if the artifacts I'm seeing on PS2 are entirely the PS2's fault... Again, I have no captures to make a sure call on that.
I'll be testing some 480p games as well latter.
My notes only apply to what I see going on with my Plasma. PS2 on my Plasma has some strange artifacts around edges. It's like edges are "doubled." At the right angle it makes objects look zig-zagged or torn. It goes beyond the typical aliasing we're used to seeing in console games. Color is also more muted. This makes the back of Jame's head almost blend in with the dirt in the trail to and from the grave yard. Also, There's a strange broken mirror look to the FMVs.
On PS3 clouds of fog are more distinct and voluminous and color is more saturated. This makes the Picture quality more comparable to the Xbox version. Which is a good thing. I might say the PS3 is doing a better job at deinterlacing than my TV, but I can't be sure if the artifacts I'm seeing on PS2 are entirely the PS2's fault... Again, I have no captures to make a sure call on that.
I'll be testing some 480p games as well latter.
Unlikely, you should be able to get back to the original values regardless.
The usual fuckup in the system settings is to do a "reset to factory settings", which can seriously mess up your screen because people misunderstand its use. If you don't know what you're doing (that includes using an oscilloscope), keep away from this specific option.
The usual fuckup in the system settings is to do a "reset to factory settings", which can seriously mess up your screen because people misunderstand its use. If you don't know what you're doing (that includes using an oscilloscope), keep away from this specific option.
hm, i thought the HDMI mod was superior due to avoiding all the analog circuitry and pulling directly from the processors a digital signal...
did i miss something?
Technically, yes. Digital is completely lossles and also benefits the audio as the audio DAC in an external receiver will be far superior than the internal one inside an old console.
However, if you consider CRT non-scanlines superior and are sensitive to lag, you'll prefer SCART RGB.
That first person you're agreeing with was Shin Johnpv!
Although I do also agree with you two. I have a mix of cables from both sellers and no problems whatsoever!
On a related note of doing stuff to games they weren't meant for, I tried playing 240p N64 games line-doubled to 480p on the HDMI N64 connected to a CRT with a Component converter. A few like Doom 64 and Hydro Thunder pull it off very well as did 480i games deinterlaced (minus some glaring artifacts). I realized it doesn't look so good on too many games and wasn't worth all the hassle. I don't know why, but I thought the HDMI mod would somehow up-res the games to true 640 x 480 resolution, which the N64 officially supports. I love the clean look of 480p GC and Wii... sharp enough to give clarity, not so hi-res to make the games look barren and overexposed if that makes any sense. I was hoping to see the same for N64.
But nope, just line-doubled which gives everything a super pixelated look due to the extra tall pixel staircases... and so 240p games should really be played on a HDTV as intended with the HDMI N64, and rather great scanline filter enabled in order to black out the extra 240 lines. It feels funny to have an old console in my living room, apart from the rest of my retro setup, but there it shall remain. I do still have the RGB/S-Video N64 back with the others and after my recent JVC S-video monitor acquisition, this is now my favorite way to play N64.
well, to get the N64 to do real 480p would be the equivalent of making current gen consoles do 4K with just a homemade mod. the console renders at 240p and would need some major overhaul to make it render at a higher res (as i understand, games that do higher resolutions lose a ton of framerate since rendering a higher resolution just kills the hardware's performance)
well, you have a fair point there. the lag thing should go away over time and give it an edge overall but right now it's very hard to have sub frame of lag with the HDMI mod (you'd need a pro monitor since every HDTV has over a frame of lag)
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