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[Khaz]

Thanks for the reply!

About the HD Retrovision cables. They provide a 5-wire component signal, so there is no SCART cable/connection involved. Not sure how they have anything to do with each other.

No, I'm saying don't buy HD retrovision cables, get Scart cables instead and have everything go through the Component converter box instead of buying specialised cables. That way you'd have one Component switch and one Scart switch, instead of two Component switches. It's preferable because everything can use Scart (and be converted by the Component box), but Component out on consoles depend on suspicious mods and proprietary cables.

HD Retrovision cables are interesting if you have only one console to plug to your TV. But as soon as you want to use more consoles, or unsupported consoles, Scart + converter box is more practical.

I like the component switch that you recommended, but I wish it had more channels. Do you have any experience connecting a switcher to another switcher, or do you know if that is a common solution for a large amount of component devices?

Daisy-chaining switch boxes should pose no problem.

 

[Khaz]

You component switch suggestion, is really starting to become one of the most quoted posts in this thread. And yeah, the toro ccan do 480p over scart!

It's a fantastic little device! I'm a fan of automatic switch boxes, the less buttons to press the better! I was surprised to find out that it was virtually the only model to be automatic, and that it's discontinued now.

 

[Khaz]

This has been bugging me for a while, but my consumer Sony Trinitron has some display issues. Not sure if it's a geometry thing that I can fix on the service menu but there is a big chunk of the screen on the left that is not displaying when I use my Dreamcast or Wii with S-Video. Some major underscan going on. Adjusting in-game displays doesn't help either, the picture disappears into the black void.

When I use my DVD player on this thing this side of the screen is 100% fine. Any idea what the issue is? Thanks.

It's normal. Every source has different HSYNC timing, causing the picture to shift from left to right. You can't do anything about it. Moving the image in software won't help, as you're just adjusting what should be drawn within the confines of SYNC.

[edit] triple post? You guys should post more

 

[Grief.exe]

i'm starting to consider selling my GC component cable to fund a GCVideo HDMI mod. it seems much more convenient to have the HDMI mod because it cuts down on the things between the GC and the TV (right now mine passes through the FM)

the things stopping me is that i wouldn't be able to do multiple screenshot comparisons anymore and how effective the mod is. the best route looks like it is to get the mod first and then decide based on results with my setup.

Discussion point, I wonder if the value of GC Component cables will decrease significantly as the awareness and availability of GC Video increases. Supply/Demand with comparable products.

 

[Peagles]

Discussion point, I wonder if the value of GC Component cables will decrease significantly as the awareness and availability of GC Video increases. Supply/Demand with comparable products.

I predict a small drop but nothing significant. The practicalities are somewhat aside from the collectible nature of things.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

You component switch suggestion, is really starting to become one of the most quoted posts in this thread. And yeah, the toro ccan do 480p over scart!

I remember when I came in here talking the Toro up during preorders and people acted like 480p over Scart was impossible. THE LEGENDS ARE TRUE!

 

[Morfeo]

I remember when I came in here talking the Toro up during preorders and people acted like 480p over Scart was impossible. THE LEGENDS ARE TRUE!

Lol, and I was among those that doubted. But the legend is indeed true!

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

The OSSC is finally out. Here's a detailed write-up on it, now that the thing is in production.

They've still got an (apparently really long) waiting list for the thing, but I'm in on the first batch, so I should have it... well, whenever it gets here. Should be interesting -- it'll be nice to finally play PS1 games again. Haven't been able to do that for a good 2 years now.

 

[Peltz]

Discussion point, I wonder if the value of GC Component cables will decrease significantly as the awareness and availability of GC Video increases. Supply/Demand with comparable products.

GC Video will have no impact on that. Prices for GCN component cables will stay level or probably increase from here on out.

Remember the Wii + component cables or HDMI dongle exists too and neither of those cheaper solutions matter for people who want to collect their first party stuff. They're the ones driving the prices, especially for all things Nintendo, and the availability of other solutions has nothing to do with that.

 

[Mega]

Discussion point, I wonder if the value of GC Component cables will decrease significantly as the awareness and availability of GC Video increases. Supply/Demand with comparable products.

I doubt it. At least some of the people looking for that cable are not interested in mod solutions. Nintendo stuff also maintains its value almost in defiance of logic. Right now anyone can get a cheap Wii or easily softmod Wii U for 480p/HD GameCube games, Dolphin continues to get better and got a major update... and none of that has dented the price of the GC cables. Melee CRT players who may be on the lookout for the Component cables are also not in the market for these HDMI mods.

 

[Grief.exe]

I predict a small drop but nothing significant. The practicalities are somewhat aside from the collectible nature of things.

GC Video will have no impact on that. Prices for GCN component cables will stay level or probably increase from here on out.

Remember the Wii + component cables or HDMI dongle exists too and neither of those cheaper solutions matter for people who want to collect their first party stuff. They're the ones driving the prices, especially for all things Nintendo, and the availability of other solutions has nothing to do with that.

I doubt it. At least some of the people looking for that cable are not interested in mod solutions. Nintendo stuff also maintains its value almost in defiance of logic. Right now anyone can get a cheap Wii or easily softmod Wii U for 480p/HD GameCube games, Dolphin continues to get better and got a major update... and none of that has dented the price of the GC cables. Melee CRT players who may be on the lookout for the Component cables are also not in the market for these HDMI mods.

Thanks for the perspective.

The OSSC is finally out. Here's a detailed write-up on it, now that the thing is in production.

They've still got an (apparently really long) waiting list for the thing, but I'm in on the first batch, so I should have it... well, whenever it gets here. Should be interesting -- it'll be nice to finally play PS1 games again. Haven't been able to do that for a good 2 years now.

They cite $7000 licensing cost for HDMI per year as a reason to exclude it, but those costs could easily be covered by slightly increasing the per unit cost and would have opened up the interest to more users.

 

[televator]

I don't see a drastic change in prices for GC components until the plug and play version of GCVideo comes around.

 

[zenosparadox]

No, I'm saying don't buy HD retrovision cables, get Scart cables instead and have everything go through the Component converter box instead of buying specialised cables. That way you'd have one Component switch and one Scart switch, instead of two Component switches. It's preferable because everything can use Scart (and be converted by the Component box), but Component out on consoles depend on suspicious mods and proprietary cables.

HD Retrovision cables are interesting if you have only one console to plug to your TV. But as soon as you want to use more consoles, or unsupported consoles, Scart + converter box is more practical.



Daisy-chaining switch boxes should pose no problem.

I take it that you are of the opinion that the HD Retrovision component cables are inferior to the SCART cable + SCART-to-component converter method? Just curious if that is what you are getting at. I don't mind getting proprietary cables if it gives me the "best" (subject to debate) picture quality on my Sony Trinitron CRT.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Thanks for the perspective.



They cite $7000 licensing cost for HDMI per year as a reason to exclude it, but those costs could easily be covered by slightly increasing the per unit cost and would have opened up the interest to more users.

I get why they didn't do it, though. They really had no ability to anticipate how many units they would sell. The XRGB is already an incredibly niche device, and selling what's essentially a hobbyist version of it for close to $200 would make it tough to expect you could recoup the HDMI fee.

 

[Rich!]

It doesn't bother me anyway. Buying the correct adapter cable with audio is hardly expensive.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Oh, I was going to post a link to that write-up on the OSSC, but forgot to paste it. Oops.

https://www.videogameperfection.com/2016/07/08/source-converter-verdict/

 

[Khaz]

I take it that you are of the opinion that the HD Retrovision component cables are inferior to the SCART cable + SCART-to-component converter method? Just curious if that is what you are getting at. I don't mind getting proprietary cables if it gives me the "best" (subject to debate) picture quality on my Sony Trinitron CRT.

Not inferior, equal.
Ok, inferior in the sense that you can only use one console with it. But the picture quality is identical.

 

[Rich!]

Oh, I was going to post a link to that write-up on the OSSC, but forgot to paste it. Oops.

https://www.videogameperfection.com/2016/07/08/source-converter-verdict/

Welp

That's put me off, indefinitely. My upscaler would primarily be for my SNES.

edit: read it a bit more

SNES/Super Famicom – The SNES/Super Famicom is certainly the system that causes the most issues with the OSSC. On most TVs and every computer monitor we’ve tested so far, the image is great, with no noise whatsoever and just the tiniest hint of jitter if you really get your nose up against the screen. Unfortunately, on some TVs the system simply does not work and it’s impossible to get a stable picture. Marqs is still investigating some workarounds for this problem and hopefully they will be fixed in a future firmware.

hm. will still get it, but only if I have a framemeister first.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Welp

That's put me off, indefinitely. My upscaler would primarily be for my SNES.

Yeah, it's a shame that part of it isn't quite there yet, though I'm curious what the compatibility is actually like.

I'm buying the thing primarily for PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast, though; so I should be set.

 

[Rich!]

I'm buying the thing primarily for PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast, though; so I should be set.

Yeah, I would be using it on a SNES, Saturn, Mega Drive, N64 and Dreamcast.

Everything sounds promising, but the unpredictable SNES support is a worry. I have an rgb modded sfc jr so it should hopefully give the best results.

 

[Khaz]

Does anyone knows how a 31kHz VGA display deals with DOS games? I mean they obviously do, but most games have a vertical resolution of 200 but a 31kHz screen supposedly can't display less than 480. Line doubling? Super thick black interlines? Magic?

 

[PassiveObserver]

Exactly as you said a minor underscan issue that can easily be fixed in the service menu. No idea why the DVD player doesn't do it. Is the DVD through S-video too?

Just checked and it happens when I use composite as well.

It's normal. Every source has different HSYNC timing, causing the picture to shift from left to right. You can't do anything about it. Moving the image in software won't help, as you're just adjusting what should be drawn within the confines of SYNC.

That sucks to hear. What's strange is that the white Dreamcast boot up screen does take up the entire screen, so I know the DC source is capable of filling every pixels, but the games don't. Very distracting.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Rich!]

Is discolouration at the corners normal when tate-ing a CRT display? Because that's what happened with my JVC - pink corners.

Once rotated back, it's back to normal.

 

[Funky Papa]

I have a chance to grab a BVM-2010P for €100, no idea about its condition.

Yay or jay?

 

[Rich!]

I have a chance to grab a BVM-2010P for €100, no idea about its condition.

Yay or jay?

That goes for £700 normally on ebay (hiked up price, but still)

Yay jay

 

[Khaz]

Is discolouration at the corners normal when tate-ing a CRT display? Because that's what happened with my JVC - pink corners.

Once rotated back, it's back to normal.

It's the change in Earth magnetic field, you need to give the monitor some time to get used to it.
I've been told to unplug the monitor, wait for some time (hours), move it, wait again, then use it. I haven't tried it yet.
Generally speaking, I think it's a good idea not to move a CRT to tate and back too often.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Discussion point, I wonder if the value of GC Component cables will decrease significantly as the awareness and availability of GC Video increases. Supply/Demand with comparable products.

I still don't understand who the hell is buying them at $200-$300 each.

It must just be super low supply and anyone who has one doesn't want to sell it. And anyone that has one wouldn't have a ton of incentive to get GCVideo. Unless a bunch of people just get that to try and sell their OEM for $$$, thus crashing the price...

 

[Funky Papa]

That goes for £700 normally on ebay (hiked up price, but still)

Yay jay

Man, it took less than five seconds for somebody else to snatch it. Here's hoping they don't follow through 😕

There's also another one going for €180 somewhere else, but at €100 I felt it was a decent impulse purchase. I honestly don't have any real use for it, I'd probably just end up cramming it inside an arcade cab.

Edit: There's also a 750 lines JVC BM-H2000PN, but €290 is way too rich for me.

 

[Rich!]

Man, it took less than five seconds for somebody else to snatch it. Here's hoping they don't follow through 😕

There's also another one going for €180 somewhere else, but at €100 I felt it was a decent impulse purchase. I honestly don't have any real use for it, I'd probably just end up cramming it inside an arcade cab.
Edit: There's also a 750 line JVC BM-H2000PN, but €290 is way too rich for me.

The 17 inch version of that JVC cost me £60, for what it's worth

 

[Funky Papa]

The 17 inch version of that JVC cost me £60, for what it's worth

Dang.

 

[Chinner]

Man, it took less than five seconds for somebody else to snatch it. Here's hoping they don't follow through 😕

There's also another one going for €180 somewhere else, but at €100 I felt it was a decent impulse purchase. I honestly don't have any real use for it, I'd probably just end up cramming it inside an arcade cab.

Edit: There's also a 750 lines JVC BM-H2000PN, but €290 is way too rich for me.

Play the long game, it took me a couple of months but I managed to get a BVM 2016P for £20. Got to wait these things out sometimes.

 

[RadarScope1]

Ended up getting a Sony Trinitron KV-32FS120 off of Craigslist on sixteen-bit's recommendation. Fantastic TV for the pre-HD 3D consoles.

I would love it if I had room for something like this. I'd trade off the crispness of my BVM for that size as long as it has component inputs.

 

[Funky Papa]

Play the long game, it took me a couple of months but I managed to get a BVM 2016P for £20. Got to wait these things out sometimes.

The thing that really grates me is that most of those are a long way from home and I don't even have a car these days, so picking them adds to the mix. Shipping rates would be rather onerous, I guess.

As a side note, I just became acquainted to the Sony KX-14CP1 through a different forum and I can't believe how damn great it looks.

So pretty.

 

[Bancho]

Edit: There's also a 750 lines JVC BM-H2000PN, but €290 is way too rich for me.

Paid 99p for my H2000PN-K

 

[Barrel Cannon]

So pretty.

Thats a beauty wow

 

[Funky Papa]

It looks so Japanesy my mind would explode if it were sitting next to a TurboGrafx-16 or even a plain ass NES.

 

[Grief.exe]

The thing that really grates me is that most of those are a long way from home and I don't even have a car these days, so picking them adds to the mix. Shipping rates would be rather onerous, I guess.

As a side note, I just became acquainted to the Sony KX-14CP1 through a different forum and I can't believe how damn great it looks.

So pretty.

How does Symphony of the Night scale?

Spoiler

I want more pics

 

[sixteen-bit]

How does Symphony of the Night scale?

Spoiler

I want more pics

Ask speedlolita. That's their setup.

 

[Galdelico]

The thing that really grates me is that most of those are a long way from home and I don't even have a car these days, so picking them adds to the mix. Shipping rates would be rather onerous, I guess.

As a side note, I just became acquainted to the Sony KX-14CP1 through a different forum and I can't believe how damn great it looks.

So pretty.

Is it that monitor with an RGB scart socket right on its side? How it is in terms of frame centering/resizing options?
I came across a couple of those, during the past few months, and they were all in pretty rough conditions... But they seem quite affordable, and in case I find one in better shape, I may try and buy it.

 

[Rich!]

Alright, I know I've been a pain in the ass with all this back and forth about monitors and upscalers, but Ive found a 20" sony BVM for a very reasonable price, just over ten years old with incredibly low usage

I may just have to get it

 

[Peagles]

Alright, I know I've been a pain in the ass with all this back and forth about monitors and upscalers, but Ive found a 20" sony BVM for a very reasonable price, just over ten years old with incredibly low usage

I may just have to get it

Do it!

My motto is basically buy any professional CRT monitor if it's at a decent price. I'm sure I'll get to a point where I have too many but they're too good to pass up, and if I have spares later I can always hook a fellow gamer up without them having to pay stupid prices.

 

[Rich!]

Ha well, I only really have enough room for one at a time...but if I get this, I can forget about the framemeister and just get the ossc in the future. As its got BNC RGB out I can also tate my JVC and put it next to it if there's enough room...

Edit; Well, the dude is willing to travel 100 miles to deliver it to me. I think that settles it.

 

[Funky Papa]

Is it that monitor with an RGB scart socket right on its side? How it is in terms of frame centering/resizing options?
I came across a couple of those, during the past few months, and they were all in pretty rough conditions... But they seem quite affordable, and in case I find one in better shape, I may try and buy it.

Yes and I couldn't tell. I'm afraid it's not mine

 

[Mega]

Some of the old PVMs look exactly like that monitor.

PVM-1390

 

[Peagles]

Ha well, I only really have enough room for one at a time...but if I get this, I can forget about the framemeister and just get the ossc in the future. As its got BNC RGB out I can also tate my JVC and put it next to it if there's enough room...

Edit; Well, the dude is willing to travel 100 miles to deliver it to me. I think that settles it.

Sounds like you can have two Just do it!

 

[Rich!]

God fucking damnitititiitit tits

Was at a steady £174 until the last five minutes. Put in a max of £250. Within the literal last second...lost it by a quid. Fucking sniper I bet

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-PVM-20M4E-Professional-CRT-monitor-/302004671539?nav=SEARCH

 

[Mega]

Rich, why don't you set your sights on a HD CRT? That's the next logical step and significant upgrade in your setup! A few to look out for are

PVM-14L5
PVM-20L5

BVM-D14H1 and D14H5
BVM-D20F1
BVM-D24E1W

 

[Funky Papa]

Did I just find that an old HS friend works at a repo firm specialised in medium to big businesses?

Why yes, yes I did.

Time to bug the F out him.

 

[Khaz]

Well, I'm now the proud owner of an HP P1130 computer monitor! The beast is a 21 inches Trinitron, that can apparently go up to 2048 x 1536! I briefly looked at it at 1600 x 1200, and the picture is indeed glorious. The very high resolutions and plain background make the two damper wires more apparent but I'm cool with it, especially as I'll be using it for low res DOS stuff.

Currently installing MSDOS 6.22 on a spare CF, the definition is apparently 720 x 400 and the resolution is glorious. Lines are cleanly separated, subpixels merge nicely and don't bleed, I'm really liking it. The damper wires are invisible at this resolution.

The CRT was apparently made for photography professionals (a relative of the previous original owner still use it as such), and it shows. The options to configure the geometry are plentiful (yet the auto setup feature have it perfect already), and the colour calibration settings are impressive: I can set the contrast and brightness for each colour beam independently!

I don't know if I'll be using it as my main desktop display, as I remember my previous monitor giving me headaches at the end of the day, but I'm sure considering it!

[edit] and to answer my previous question yes, 320 x 200 DOS games are line doubled. Gloriously line doubled, but kind of make me want to try and make them display on a 15kHz CRT just for the sake of it.

forgot a link to specs http://www.cnet.com/products/hp-p1130-crt-monitor-21-series/specs/

 

[Funky Papa]

Well, I'm now the proud owner of an HP P1130 computer monitor! The beast is a 21 inches Trinitron, that can apparently go up to 2048 x 1536! I briefly looked at it at 1600 x 1200, and the picture is indeed glorious. The very high resolutions and plain background make the two damper wires more apparent but I'm cool with it, especially as I'll be using it for low res DOS stuff.

Currently installing MSDOS 6.22 on a spare CF, the definition is apparently 720 x 400 and the resolution is glorious. Lines are cleanly separated, subpixels merge nicely and don't bleed, I'm really liking it. The damper wires are invisible at this resolution.

The CRT was apparently made for photography professionals (a relative of the previous original owner still use it as such), and it shows. The options to configure the geometry are plentiful (yet the auto setup feature have it perfect already), and the colour calibration settings are impressive: I can set the contrast and brightness for each colour beam independently!

I don't know if I'll be using it as my main desktop display, as I remember my previous monitor giving me headaches at the end of the day, but I'm sure considering it!

[edit] and to answer my previous question yes, 320 x 200 DOS games are line doubled. Gloriously line doubled, but kind of make me want to try and make them display on a 15kHz CRT just for the sake of it.

I have a LaCie Electron Blue IV, which uses the same tube. I'm looking forward to your impressions:

Such a beast. I can't complain for €30.