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[Danny Dudekisser]

rad, my OSSC shipped.

I've got two displays I can try it out on: my HDTV and my g-sync monitor. Curious how performance will differ between the two.

 

[DarkConfidant]

Found a TV for $70 at a local shop today, but I don't know shit about CRTs, or PVMs, or any AV stuff.

It's a Sony PVM1271Q.

Is that any good for gaming?

Also, is there any good beginners guide on how to use these properly?

 

[IrishNinja]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/65mhpbixpkbog92/TG16.rar?dl=0

always appreciated, m'man!

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Spotted a brand new in box JVC A13SU on eBay for $125 (Plus $50 Shipping)

Super tempted to pick it up even though I already have one.

Mine has the casing damage plus if it were to ever go out on me I'd have a backup.

Edit: Dunno if it's worth throwing $175 at right now though; I could be buying more Famicom carts with that cash. Oh well, guess I'll let it slip through my fingers this time.

 

[blast processed]

Got my cable today. Did not fry the RGB input lol. Waiting for my Saturn cable, I assume they sent that separately? Anywho, the Genesis looks freaking crazy good, now to get my scan lines looking right.

 

[Timu]

Got my cable today. Did not fry the RGB input lol. Waiting for my Saturn cable, I assume they sent that separately? Anywho, the Genesis looks freaking crazy good, now to get my scan lines looking right.

Once you go RGB, you won't go back.

Welcome to the club.

 

[televator]

I'm playing Ys 1 & 2 for the first time and loving it so far. It's on PSP. PSP's native screen res is 480x272, but the TV output is 720x480 if I'm not mistaken. How is this done exactly? Is it 480x272 active area inside of a 720x480 frame?

 

[Timu]

I'm playing Ys 1 & 2 for the first time and loving it so far. It's on PSP. PSP's native screen res is 480x272, but the TV output is 720x480 if I'm not mistaken. How is this done exactly? Is it 480x272 active area inside of a 720x480 frame?

Yes, like this(screenshot I took):

 

[televator]

Yes, like this(screenshot I took):

Cool, thanks. That'll help me setup the FM for this.

 

[Peagles]

Your new monitor looks nice.

But as you know, HD BVMs and PVMs can be prohibitively expensive. Since you have the input card keep an eye out for these HD monitors:

JVC
DT-V1700CG, DT-V1710CG
DT-V1900CG, DT-V1910CG

Panasonic BT-H1700

Ikegami HTM1700R

Thanks, I'll keep a watch on those models. It's not so much that they're expensive here, it's that they seldom show up. Professional monitors in general are still kinda hidden gem status here.

 

[PanopticBlue]

Wow, thank you! I made it partially in on my own without the manual but the "press enter twice" part had me stifled and I kept ending up in raster adjustment. It was hard to find info on the specific model I should've search for chassis instead. Thanks again.

You're welcome, glad to help.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I know I've probably asked this question a bunch of times, but now that I actually need to buy some new RGB cables, this question arises again:

The fuck do I buy?

I know I need a JP-21 cable, since I'm plugging this into the OSSC, but do I want the csync or luma version of a cable? I don't remember which one is going to give me the best video quality...

Also, will audio through a JP-21 cable, rather than standard RCA out, give me the same audio quality? Or will it be worse?

 

[televator]

I know I've probably asked this question a bunch of times, but now that I actually need to buy some new RGB cables, this question arises again:

The fuck do I buy?

I know I need a JP-21 cable, since I'm plugging this into the OSSC, but do I want the csync or luma version of a cable? I don't remember which one is going to give me the best video quality...

Also, will audio through a JP-21 cable, rather than standard RCA out, give me the same audio quality? Or will it be worse?

What? Everything I've read makes no mention of native JP21 input on the OSSC. That is presumed that anything that's mentioned as SCART is Euro SCART. Here did you hear of JP21?

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Rich, why don't you set your sights on a HD CRT? That's the next logical step and significant upgrade in your setup! A few to look out for are

PVM-14L5
PVM-20L5

BVM-D14H1 and D14H5
BVM-D20F1
BVM-D24E1W

I didn't even know there are HD P/BVMs. Are these easier to come by, and are they super-expensive?

How about some PSP at 480p?

What set-up are you running those on? They look fantastic.







I need to get a Pro Duo MicroSD adapter, mod this thing and throw a bunch of games on it. The UMD drive is iffy and of the dozen+ used games I recently bought... a surprising number are falling apart or barely/don't work. Shockingly poor physical media overall.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

What? Everything I've read makes no mention of native JP21 input on the OSSC. That is presumed that anything that's mentioned as SCART is Euro SCART. Here did you hear of JP21?

Oh... y'know what... you're right. Yeah. I guess I'll just use an adapter with it, then.

Well, I still wanna go with JP21 cables, so I guess the question still stands.

 

[Conezays]

While not RGB, just ordered one of these in an Ebay binging haze (as well as a Harmony Flash Cart)! Pretty excited; the wood grain is what pushed me over the edge, lol.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'm using this Component switch http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WS5I7U/?tag=neogaf0e-20
It's cool because it's an automatic switch, which means you don't need to have another remote or press a button to select the input, it switches to it automatically.

Don't get it from Amazon though, you can find it for like half price on ebay.

This switch. Is it supposed to be able to take S-Video or Composite input and passthrough the signal to component? Or does it need output hookups for all three inputs?

 

[Grief.exe]

Got my cable today. Did not fry the RGB input lol. Waiting for my Saturn cable, I assume they sent that separately? Anywho, the Genesis looks freaking crazy good, now to get my scan lines looking right.

Nice!

 

[Mega]

I didn't even know there are HD P/BVMs. Are these easier to come by, and are they super-expensive?

They're kind of difficult to come by and at auction they tend to go for a lot for the 20" and above models, about $1000 or even more for the large widescreen ones. These were originally monitors that cost five figures but it's still too much for nowadays and mainly fueled by the recent retro gaming hype (Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox). There are other cheaper HD CRT monitor options like the JVCs, and other alternatives, so I don't recommend shelling out anywhere near $1K for any monitor unless you have deep pockets and don't give a damn.

And it's not too difficult to game at 480p on a CRT if you don't mind having two of them:

1. SD CRT for 240p stuff
2. EDTV, HDTV or VGA monitor that does 480p+ (but can't do 240p)

Thanks, I'll keep a watch on those models. It's not so much that they're expensive here, it's that they seldom show up. Professional monitors in general are still kinda hidden gem status here.

To be clear, your card should work on all of those listed monitors since they're the same rebranded 17" model. PQ wise, they're as good as any HD BVM. Good luck in your search!

 

[Peagles]

They're kind of difficult to come by and at auction they tend to go for a lot for the 20" and above models, about $1000 or even more for the large widescreen ones. These were originally monitors that cost five figures but it's still too much for nowadays and mainly fueled by the recent retro gaming hype (Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox). There are other cheaper HD CRT monitor options like the JVCs, and other alternatives, so I don't recommend shelling out anywhere near $1K for any monitor unless you have deep pockets and don't give a damn.

And it's not too difficult to game at 480p on a CRT if you don't mind having two of them:

1. SD CRT for 240p stuff
2. EDTV, HDTV or VGA monitor that does 480p+ (but can't do 240p)


To be clear, your card should work on all of those listed monitors since they're the same rebranded 17" model. PQ wise, they're as good as any HD BVM. Good luck in your search!

Thanks, I really appreciate that. I've set up a watch for any local listings for those models. I think with the Garo coming out I may even look for a decent VGA monitor to use with DC/GC/PS2/Xbox. I had a chance to get a really good one for a buck about a month ago but missed the end of the auction. Kicking myself now!

You may know this, or others may want to chime in, but if I was going to look to use a VGA monitor, is there anything specific I'd want to look for in a CRT computer monitor? I figure the newer the better, but I have no idea if any models/specs are worth looking for in particular.

 

[MadClacker]

I'm currently tinkering with my Sony CRT Service Mode options (keeping notes of my old settings of course!) I've been adjusting the vertical and horizontal size+position, VANG, VBOW, and SCOR. Any others I should be on the lookout for?

But have two questions:

I'm using the 240p test suite. I have the grid on display. Am I supposed to have one border of red squares visible?

And also, I'm having issues saving the settings. I've tried zero and (what I guess is my enter button) I've tried mute, I've tried zero+mute. The moment I put it on standby and power it back on, it's reset.

Here's how it looks right now before any changes. As you can see, the bottom right is showing more than the bottom left, and the top left is showing more than the top right.

 

[blast processed]

This probably varies on the person, but what are some of the scanline settings some of you are using. This is what I am currently using, it looks ok but could be better.
DEC_LINE 1: 75
DEC_LINE 2: 90
DEC_SMOOTH: 80

 

[Khaz]

Oh... y'know what... you're right. Yeah. I guess I'll just use an adapter with it, then.

Well, I still wanna go with JP21 cables, so I guess the question still stands.

There is no good reason to start using JP21. Get Scart like everybody else, it will save you from many headaches in the future.

Using CSync or Luma Sync cables make no difference in picture quality. Using Composite Video as Sync may add audio and video interferences if the cable isn't of good quality ( = coax wires and shield).

Analogue audio is a very sensitive to crosstalk, and as a general rule it's better to get it in their own shielded cables as early as possible in the chain. I'd suggest to first try the audio from Scart and adapt your setup if you aren't satisfied.

 

[Khaz]

This switch. Is it supposed to be able to take S-Video or Composite input and passthrough the signal to component? Or does it need output hookups for all three inputs?

Nope, same in, same out.

 

[Peagles]

dat geometry

televator post if you are ok

 

[Madao]

there's a Poltergeist inside that TV.

only way to explain that.

 

[Morfeo]

Got my cable today. Did not fry the RGB input lol. Waiting for my Saturn cable, I assume they sent that separately? Anywho, the Genesis looks freaking crazy good, now to get my scan lines looking right.

Very happy to read this!

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Someone talk me out of this. It's so very tempting.

 

[Morfeo]

I'm playing Ys 1 & 2 for the first time and loving it so far. It's on PSP. PSP's native screen res is 480x272, but the TV output is 720x480 if I'm not mistaken. How is this done exactly? Is it 480x272 active area inside of a 720x480 frame?

Played both of those on the PSP last year, and yeah, they were really fun. I really love how they are very light on story and heavy on action. Great games!

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Someone talk me out of this. It's so very tempting.

That TV is the size of a postage stamp.

There is no good reason to start using JP21. Get Scart like everybody else, it will save you from many headaches in the future.

Using CSync or Luma Sync cables make no difference in picture quality. Using Composite Video as Sync may add audio and video interferences if the cable isn't of good quality ( = coax wires and shield).

Analogue audio is a very sensitive to crosstalk, and as a general rule it's better to get it in their own shielded cables as early as possible in the chain. I'd suggest to first try the audio from Scart and adapt your setup if you aren't satisfied.

Cool, thanks for the advice. I always appreciate how much people tend to know in RetroGAF threads.

Also, I'm fucking excited to finally be able to play Saturn again when this is all set up. Most disappointing thing was when I tried to play Elevator Action Returns last year and realized that I couldn't hook it up to my TV and had to play on a tiny computer monitor, and that my XRGB was fried. Ugh.

 

[Peagles]

Someone talk me out of this. It's so very tempting.

No RGB? Don't do it

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Nope, same in, same out.

How would that work with only one audio out? You basically need to choose whether it will be a composite, S-Video, or component switch? No mixing unless your TV shares audio in for a composite and S-Video input?

 

[Mega]

Peagles, I'm not too caught up on computer monitors but I hear the Lacie and Sony GDM models are great.

MadClacker, your monitor looks super busted. Do games appear that wavy and distorted too?

Someone talk me out of this. It's so very tempting.

Don't you have this exact monitor? I got mine for $30 new. That seems steep... but new is new.

Get a JVC TM-H150. That's at least an upgrade in screen size (15") and big difference in picture aesthetic (750~ TVL and aperture grille). As a plus it can be upgraded to RGB although it doesn't have the input card for it in the box.

 

[Mega]

That TV is the size of a postage stamp.

It's 13", the minimum recommended size for a 240p CRT and a nice cozy session with a 1-player game. I finished a number of games on my 13" PVM. And I have this one. It's super light and very low depth compared to any PVM. The screen is very bright and colorful and my preferred CRT monitor for N64 games.

 

[Balb]

What's the best way to upscale 480i/480p component to 720p/1080p? I've heard mixed things about the Framemeister's d-terminal/component upscaling.

 

[MadClacker]

MadClacker, your monitor looks super busted. Do games appear that wavy and distorted too?

I didn't THINK so. Games appear to look just fine (save for the slightly "rotated" misaligned picture) I did a 240p test suite on my Dreamcast and the vertical scrolling test appeared to show some vertical and horizontal distortion. As in, it didn't scroll smoothly.

Problem is, although I have a 1080p Sony Bravia TV remote (which mostly works with this) I can't seem to hit "enter" on the CRT TV service mode to save any changes I make. Instead, it just brings up the favorites menu.

Not really sure how I'm supposed to make any changes. :/

 

[televator]

Man, how long before we start getting FPGA clones of 3D consoles? I want dithering gone forever.

 

[Grief.exe]

What's the best way to upscale 480i/480p component to 720p/1080p? I've heard mixed things about the Framemeister's d-terminal/component upscaling.

OSCC does component.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ossc.html

 

[dubc35]

Found a TV for $70 at a local shop today, but I don't know shit about CRTs, or PVMs, or any AV stuff.

It's a Sony PVM1271Q.

Is that any good for gaming?

Also, is there any good beginners guide on how to use these properly?

I'm by no means an expert but since no one has replied yet, it has RGBs input so yeah it would be good for gaming. Pretty decent price as well (IMO). Keep in mind though you'll need to spend another $35-45ish for cables (console out -> SCART and SCART -> BNC). It's not big (I have a 13") so make sure you have a setup where you can sit closer to it.

Found a free download of the manual if you'd like to get more familiarized with it.
http://elektrotanya.com/sony_pvm1271q.pdf/download.html

For a beginners guide, I watched My Life in Gaming episodes, browsed RetroRGB.com, kept in touch with this thread (read the OP if you haven't yet) and did a lot of searching elsewhere on the web. I don't think there is a one stop shop.

edit, adding any specific systems you plan on playing may help others chime in as well as I have only been playing SNES and Genesis on mine so far.
edit 2, browsing the manual a bit, 600 TVL is pretty good.

 

[Balb]

OSCC does component.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ossc.html

Is there a consensus on how much better (or worse) the OSCC is compared to the XRGB-mini?

 

[ShowDog]

Well I didn't end up coming home with the fd-36kv310 best consumer SDTV ever made. But I did get a consolation prize in a free JVC D Series AV27D500. It's a '99 SDTV set with 700 lines of resolution, component input and it even has a service menu. It had minor use and looks to be in pretty much new condition, so that's nice. It doesn't really look like a Trinitron, it's a shadow mask CRT but the colors and focus are great.

I'm still keeping an eye out for a kv310, but 36" is probably too big anyways.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Is there a consensus on how much better (or worse) the OSCC is compared to the XRGB-mini?

Depends what you want to do. The OSSC only does linedoubling or linetripling -- it won't upscale the image. But the OSSC does seem to be better if you're only interested in using it for linedoubling, and it introduces less input lag into the equation. Colors are better on the OSSC, as well. Certain systems appear to have issues on the OSSC at this point, depending on your display -- namely, the SNES. They're working on that. Switching between 240p and 480i in games like Chrono Cross is worlds better on the OSSC. Depends on your display, but it only takes like a second, generally.

 

[BTails]

This probably varies on the person, but what are some of the scanline settings some of you are using. This is what I am currently using, it looks ok but could be better.
DEC_LINE 1: 75
DEC_LINE 2: 90
DEC_SMOOTH: 80

Jake, so glad to hear that your Framemeister isn't toast.

Question: are you trying to get scanlines on a 720p output, or 1080p?

 

[missile]

...

Love the Fresnel reflection towards the edges of the screen. Oh yeah...

Edit:
Am working on a sophisticated glass shader (has Fresnel reflection, too!).

Man, how long before we start getting FPGA clones of 3D consoles? I want dithering gone forever.

"3d" dithering can be hacked out. It's a post-processing effect, usually.

 

[Rich!]

Yay, the framemeister EU tax free version has gone back down by £40 to just shy over £300.

Lets hope it stays that way and the pound/yen don't do anything crazy before the end of this month when I buy one

 

[DarkConfidant]

Keep in mind though you'll need to spend another $35-45ish for cables (console out -> SCART and SCART -> BNC).

Will I be able to just get that stuff on Amazon or something?
Also, should I use Japanese or European SCART? I was original just going to go Component to BNC.

Found a free download of the manual if you'd like to get more familiarized with it.
http://elektrotanya.com/sony_pvm1271q.pdf/download.html

Thanks! That's awesome!

systems you plan on playing may help others chime in as well as I have only been playing SNES and Genesis on mine so far.
edit 2, browsing the manual a bit, 600 TVL is pretty good.

NES, Super Famicom, and PS2.
I'll be able to sit close to it.

Also what's 600TVL?

 

[Khaz]

How would that work with only one audio out? You basically need to choose whether it will be a composite, S-Video, or component switch? No mixing unless your TV shares audio in for a composite and S-Video input?

You can split your audio out with Y cables.

 

[Khaz]

Also, should I use Japanese or European SCART? I was original just going to go Component to BNC.

Scart. You always choose Scart.

Also what's 600TVL?

It's the horizontal maximum resolution. But it's not the LCD twisted meaning of resolution: 600 TVL means that you can display up to 600 vertical lines until they start merging together and you can't optically resolve them. You can still send a higher definition picture to the screen, it just won't display as nicely as something under 600. It's an upper limit only too: as long as the TVL is higher than the horizontal definition of the picture to display, you're fine.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

always appreciated, m'man!

No problem.

Got my cable today. Did not fry the RGB input lol. Waiting for my Saturn cable, I assume they sent that separately? Anywho, the Genesis looks freaking crazy good, now to get my scan lines looking right.

YAY! Glad to hear your Mini is ok for sure, and welcome to the world of glorious upscalled RGB.

Is there a consensus on how much better (or worse) the OSCC is compared to the XRGB-mini?

They're kind of 2 different beasts, that accomplish similar but different things. Depending on your needs, your TV, and your setup, which one is better will vary.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

They're kind of difficult to come by and at auction they tend to go for a lot for the 20" and above models, about $1000 or even more for the large widescreen ones. These were originally monitors that cost five figures but it's still too much for nowadays and mainly fueled by the recent retro gaming hype (Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox). There are other cheaper HD CRT monitor options like the JVCs, and other alternatives, so I don't recommend shelling out anywhere near $1K for any monitor unless you have deep pockets and don't give a damn.

And it's not too difficult to game at 480p on a CRT if you don't mind having two of them:

1. SD CRT for 240p stuff
2. EDTV, HDTV or VGA monitor that does 480p+ (but can't do 240p)

Thanks, Mega. I already have a 23" Samsung LCD TV, a 720p one. It does 480p okay via component. Do you think that's fine for PSP gaming? I have a PSP Go with a dock and component cables.

Yay, the framemeister EU tax free version has gone back down by £40 to just shy over £300.

Lets hope it stays that way and the pound/yen don't do anything crazy before the end of this month when I buy one

Who's offering it at this price, Rich? I've been considering one for ages because it's hard to find a BVM at a decent price (I'd prefer a 20" as opposed to 9 or even 14). Also, do you know what kind of power adaptor it's possible to use on these, a 3-pin UK one? I'm not keen on step down converters and would prefer to be able to use a standard UK plug with it.