blast processed
Member
Got my SNES scart today and it looks fantastic. So... I guess the next step is to get my N64 modded. Retro fixes the place to get it done, or is there a gaffer that does it.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Anyone with experience using any of the DVDO iScan upscalers? I bought a Genesis 2 and SNES SCART cables both with csync from retro_console_accessories just a minute ago for my soon to be delivered vp20, and I wanted to make sure those were the correct cables.
More importantly, I'm having a hard time figuring out what sort of breakout cable will work to get the SCART converted to RBGs with RCA connectors. I'm still trying to figure some things out, but from what I understand sync and composite sync are different, correct? The inputs on the vp20/30 has a dedicated sync input as well as a composite input near the RGB. Is csync on the cables from retro_console_accessories is different from composite sync? Or is csync the same thing as composite sync?
Image of the vp20 inputs:
I was thinking of buying this cable here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201614909272
It says in the image its RGB + sync, but the description mentions "Works with monitors that accept RGB + composite sync via BNC cable". So would this go into the sync input or the composite input? If it goes into the composite input, are there cables that provide sync that would use the dedicated sync input? And could this cable work if I used BNC to RCA adapters for the leads, or would I need to have him make a custom cable with RCA connections instead?
Sorry for the volume of questions, but I've tried researching for days and can't find a clear answer.
More importantly, I'm having a hard time figuring out what sort of breakout cable will work to get the SCART converted to RBGs with RCA connectors. I'm still trying to figure some things out, but from what I understand sync and composite sync are different, correct? The inputs on the vp20/30 has a dedicated sync input as well as a composite input near the RGB. Is csync on the cables from retro_console_accessories is different from composite sync? Or is csync the same thing as composite sync?
Image of the vp20 inputs:
I was thinking of buying this cable here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201614909272
It says in the image its RGB + sync, but the description mentions "Works with monitors that accept RGB + composite sync via BNC cable". So would this go into the sync input or the composite input? If it goes into the composite input, are there cables that provide sync that would use the dedicated sync input? And could this cable work if I used BNC to RCA adapters for the leads, or would I need to have him make a custom cable with RCA connections instead?
Sorry for the volume of questions, but I've tried researching for days and can't find a clear answer.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Baphomet I believe does it, but you'd have to shoot him a message to be sure.
Also consider the UltraHDMI mod vs the RGB mod.
PeterBazooka
Member
I used to own the vp20. It goes in the sync and the top row (component) for rgb and it works with bnc to rca adapters. Also, those look like the cables I purchased.
Why not both?
Shin Johnpv
Member
I think you can only do both, if you have an early serial number N64 that can get RGB just from installing an RGB amp and doing the simple mod. I don't think you can do both the UltraHDMI and the more advance RGB mod that works on any N64.
Done. I'll take more once I get further. I forgot how bad I am at the game.
This was a really decisive aspect of the OSSC throughout it's development. I welcomed it because I directly connect HDMI to my PC monitor and hope the device has separate analog or digital outputs for my DAC which connects to my speaker amps. Hopefully, if the OSSC is successful, there could be a hardware revision that would provide a solution for everyone's setup.
So I tried to take some photos of a PS1 game that had used polygons to give an idea of the OSSC's performance with 3d.
Dell U2715H, Retro_Console_Accessories Coax SCART, OSSC, 240p Line x3, Scanlines at 31%.
Jesus Christ... The color looks sooo good.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
And the camera shots, themselves, aren't as good as the first couple SOTN pictures he posted, so it probably looks even better than that.
Thank you! I was hoping someone who owned one would chime in. Now I can get the final piece I need to enjoy some 240p gaming goodness.
Specifically with Gameboy/GBA games.
PeterBazooka
Member
No Problem. Did you snag the ABT-102 low latency card too? It reduces the input lag significantly. Expensive as hell tho and really hard to find but worth it imo. I ended up paying like $250-ish for the updgrade card alone, not sure what they go for nowadays.
The seller was unsure if it was installed so I'm going to guess "no". Though I don't think he was the original owner of the unit, so I'll have to wait until I get it to check. I'm ok if it isn't. This is sort of an interim device for me until my number gets called for an OSSC.
Yeah, I'm really bad at taking screen photos. I'll have more time on the weekend, so I'll give it another go.
I forgot to mention that my monitor is calibrated to a luminance of 80 cd/m^2 which may add to the vivid picture. I don't have my Framemeister hooked up anymore but I do recall the image it produces being duller. I think it comes back to the difference between a monitor receiving a full RGB image vs. one that isn't.
Full - limited, there's no difference as long as the monitor knows what's up. Heck component is 16-240 which is just a rescale of 16-235.
So it's not a similar situation like my WiiU where I get a washed out picture because it doesn't support full-range RGB and my monitor has no way to address it?
Pretty much, I think.
Standard/TV PAL/NTSC video encoding filters are too rough for video games.
(for games using high luma frequencies and saturated colors next to each other)
Via firmware update.
Filter profiles to adjust for a certain video content would be cool.
Edit:
For broadcast TV content the converter may deliver as it should.
Edit II:
But one can also filter the RGB (luma+chroma) content prior conversion.
SUP
I set the invoice value as £18 - so I won't get hit by customs, hopefully. hell yeahhh
Haven't ordered a euro scart adapter, but I can easily mod the jp21 one.
Enjoy man. There's nothing like new toys... or in your case, reuniting with an old toy, which can sometimes be even better.
hell yeah
I had to sell everything in 2014 after my ex left me and my daughter, and left me with a house to pay for and a remarkable amount of debt
now I've got a really well paid job and a house of my own, I've finally got my collection back together. aw yes
SUP
I set the invoice value as £18 - so I won't get hit by customs, hopefully. hell yeahhh
Haven't ordered a euro scart adapter, but I can easily mod the jp21 one.
Wait... that's Rich. lol
Since he changed his avatar, I thought he was a random noobie that just popped up in here.
No, not really? The luminance values between the Mini and and OSSC shouldn't be affected. Color range is which will mean you'll see more different colors and slightly better gradations on the OSSC.
Computer monitors were CRTs, they had scanlines. The first monitors were 15kHz, with a digital palette of 27 colours. That was the CGA and EGA era. VGA was 31kHz with an analogue palette (typically 16.8million colours) but its highest colour mode was available at a definition of 200p only. It and older software are line doubled by the graphics processor to fit on a VGA display.
So, depending on what you're playing and how you are playing it, your computer game can have its pixels one or two scan lines high.
[edit] Actually, you had PC LCD monitors in the early 80s already, but they had to conform to the CGA EGA VGA standards. Some were crazy widescreen as they had to fit 80x25 characters in a square pixels matrix.
SUP
I set the invoice value as £18 - so I won't get hit by customs, hopefully. hell yeahhh
Haven't ordered a euro scart adapter, but I can easily mod the jp21 one.
Hmmmm, im not sure i would have got a mini now what with the OSSC being out with no input lag to speak of and with the next few FW updates adding x4 & x5 scaling and other features being added i think the xrgb-mini's time in the sun is numbered....plus there's also the price difference with the mini being almost 75% more!
EDIT: i though you just got a decent PVM/BVM anyway Rich?
Yep! The ossc is cheap enough that I can impulse buy it as soon as my turn comes up...which seeing as it's in the 700s, will be near christmas. If it surpasses the xrgb, I'll sell it - the last xrgb I saw on ebay sold for a ridiculous £350! That would be a profit for me of £70! The resell value is fantastic here in the UK, and has been ever since I sold my old xrgb in 2014.
And I still have my JVC, but it's going into storage for the time being. I've had to move all my consoles into the living room and I don't have room for a CRT anymore. Situation will change in a few months after building work is done, and I've decided I'll be setting it up in the adjacent room, connected to the same consoles that are hooked up in the living room via a scart splitter - just for when I want to use a CRT display now and then
Anyhow to cut things short - I'm not waiting five months+ without any way to play my retro collection on a decent display
I'm hoping you experts can help me out.
My wife and I are closing on a house Tuesday, and I'll have a room to finally hook up all my old consoles at once. I'm planning on picking up a Sony WEGA display to hook them up to.
My question is, what's the best way to hook up multiple consoles to an older TV.
I have the following and in an ideal world, they would all connect to the same display
Atari 2600
Intellivision
NES
SNES
Genesis
PS2
Wii
Xbox 360
Any maybe more has things grow someday.
What are my options?
Also, assuming I don't have access to the PVM, what are the other top CRTs to look for?
My wife and I are closing on a house Tuesday, and I'll have a room to finally hook up all my old consoles at once. I'm planning on picking up a Sony WEGA display to hook them up to.
My question is, what's the best way to hook up multiple consoles to an older TV.
I have the following and in an ideal world, they would all connect to the same display
Atari 2600
Intellivision
NES
SNES
Genesis
PS2
Wii
Xbox 360
Any maybe more has things grow someday.
What are my options?
Also, assuming I don't have access to the PVM, what are the other top CRTs to look for?
I use two hama scart switchers linked together. Cost £10 each, and there's no signal loss. Phono input and output too. You can see them here - as I'm in the UK, our TVs and HDTVs all have native RGB scart input, so I'm just running my consoles to my TV through that until my xrgb arrives:
If they aren't available in the US, you can order from Amazon UK.
Anyone got any experience with the fbx profiles for the xrgb Mini? I've just stumbled upon them and they look great - and the super game boy one is just what I need!
I see they're set up for 1080p, which is fine - but does that mean they don't work with scanlines? Or has the integer scaling issue in 1080p been fixed?
Lastly, I've got the newest firmware update on an sd ready to go - 2.06 from may this year. No issues reported? Good to use?
Thanks!
I see they're set up for 1080p, which is fine - but does that mean they don't work with scanlines? Or has the integer scaling issue in 1080p been fixed?
Lastly, I've got the newest firmware update on an sd ready to go - 2.06 from may this year. No issues reported? Good to use?
Thanks!
Beer Monkey
Member
Aren't Chinese OSSC clones inevitable? They don't even have to reverse engineer it.
You have both HD and SD consoles, you won't be able to connect them to the same display and have them look the best they could. For SD in the US, you want an SD CRT with Component, a Component encoder box, an audio Scart adapter, a Scart switch box, and a bunch of cables. Even if you don't mod your consoles, Scart carries Composite and svideo. The 2600 goes to the antenna plug as usual.
For HD consoles, you want a widescreen HD display. There are HD CRTs but they are quite uncommon, and many people advocate for a good fixed pixel display like a plasma. Then its business as usual, with Component and HDMI cables.
It's called the open source scan converter for a reason
Nothing's stopping them, depending what licence it's registered under.
I think theres some issues with 2.06, you may want to look over at thread on http://shmups.system11.org/ to see which FW is the best one to go for atm
Filter the RGB how? To be honest it delivers as it should on everything except the rainbow banding on Genesis Composite transparency effects.
Is there a sync timing issue on 60hz modded PAL mega drives? My HDTV (direct rgb scart input) does not like the MD set to 60hz mode - the sync goes completely wack and the image flickers in and out. In 50hz, it's fine. It's also fine on my JVC CRT. All of my NTSC consoles (n64, snes, saturn, ps1) are fine on both TV sets.
Will it be an issue with the framemeister?
Will it be an issue with the framemeister?
iirc the crystal used in PAL consoles can't exactly divide/multiply to the 59.97Hz NTSC is asking, but instead get a slightly slower 59.94Hz. It's perfectly fine for real tube TVs, but fixed pixel display, which flicker instead of scanning, have a much lower tolerance to variable refresh rates. Some TVs handle it better than others, I suppose a gsync/freesync display would have no problem.
The Framemeister is fine with it, but passes the refresh rate unchanged to the TV.
The Framemeister is fine with it, but passes the refresh rate unchanged to the TV.
Haven't had a problem with mine, but it could be my displays.
geniusbits
Member
Anyone have any experience with the 240p 3DO mod, the RGB 3DO mod, or both? I'm eventually going to get a new 3DO, I have the Goldstar one and want one of the Panasonics or Sanyo, and would like to know how much of a difference either or both of those mods make. I really don't mind S-video and would almost prefer it because that saves a SCART input on my Bandridge. I'm more interested in what goes on with the 240p mod.
sixteen-bit
Member
I remember Baphomet posted a RGB mod for 3DO.
Aw yes I fuuuuucking fixed it!!!
Completely cut all traces of composite video. Cut the trace to pin 7 which was being used for sync over composite. Rewired it for c-sync taken from the video chip (using a resistor and capacitor taken from a scart cable) and rewired the scart cable to take sync from the new pin I wired up. Image of the board before I put the heatsink back on (you can see the red wire going to the din connector, and the capacitor I wired up to the video chip)
No sync issues at all now. Just a glorious stable and crisp image. All ready for the xrgb when it arrives now!
I'm getting better at this shit. I think. and the difference is staggering - the mega drive looks stunning on my HDTV now, even without an upscaler.
Completely cut all traces of composite video. Cut the trace to pin 7 which was being used for sync over composite. Rewired it for c-sync taken from the video chip (using a resistor and capacitor taken from a scart cable) and rewired the scart cable to take sync from the new pin I wired up. Image of the board before I put the heatsink back on (you can see the red wire going to the din connector, and the capacitor I wired up to the video chip)
No sync issues at all now. Just a glorious stable and crisp image. All ready for the xrgb when it arrives now!
I'm getting better at this shit. I think. and the difference is staggering - the mega drive looks stunning on my HDTV now, even without an upscaler.
I was just looking at doing the mod to my FZ-10. It's literally just putting a switch on two
pins on the VP536. You'll just need to make sure you get a 3DO with that chip.
RetroRGB has a nice little write up about it.
http://www.retrorgb.com/3do240p.html
RadarScope1
Member
Looking for some thoughts/advice on a consumer Sony Trinitron, specifically the KV-36FS130.
I have a nice JVC pro monitor. Love the RGB and s-video picture quality. Even composite is decent. But it's only 20 inches. I used to have a 24-inch Trinitron before I got my monitor a few months ago and it was quite good, but it only had composite and s-video input. I've been thinking about trying to snag another Trinitron for the future in case I want to have a large setup someday -- but this time one with component inputs so I can convert my RGB signals or, in the case of the PS2/1, just input directly. This model has the digital comb filter, which I don't know anything about but I heard it helps with PQ in these late-model sets. (This one is from late 2005.)
Problem is, it's 36 inches and some 240 pounds ... and I don't really have any space for it now and might not ever. I've been thinking 27 or maybe 32 is what I want. But I'm afraid these things won't be easily available much longer. And the guy is ready to practically give it away. Asking $40 but already telling me the price is negotiable. I'm tempted .......
So how do these really compare to a pro monitor? Will my RGB -> component look bad? Especially blown up that big? And don't these TVs do 480p? This model only goes up to 480i according the manual online.
tl;dr: Tell me about component PQ in consumer Trinitrons vs a typical RGB monitor.
I have a nice JVC pro monitor. Love the RGB and s-video picture quality. Even composite is decent. But it's only 20 inches. I used to have a 24-inch Trinitron before I got my monitor a few months ago and it was quite good, but it only had composite and s-video input. I've been thinking about trying to snag another Trinitron for the future in case I want to have a large setup someday -- but this time one with component inputs so I can convert my RGB signals or, in the case of the PS2/1, just input directly. This model has the digital comb filter, which I don't know anything about but I heard it helps with PQ in these late-model sets. (This one is from late 2005.)
Problem is, it's 36 inches and some 240 pounds ... and I don't really have any space for it now and might not ever. I've been thinking 27 or maybe 32 is what I want. But I'm afraid these things won't be easily available much longer. And the guy is ready to practically give it away. Asking $40 but already telling me the price is negotiable. I'm tempted .......
So how do these really compare to a pro monitor? Will my RGB -> component look bad? Especially blown up that big? And don't these TVs do 480p? This model only goes up to 480i according the manual online.
tl;dr: Tell me about component PQ in consumer Trinitrons vs a typical RGB monitor.
RGB -> YUV -> filter -> YUV-filtered -> RGB -> converter -> composite.
(that's messy xD)
Sounds good. If it works most of the time, who cares?
Edit:
Mind giving me the original Sonic image you got there?
Do you even need a Framemeister?
Yep!
My TV still assumes a 240p scart signal is 480i...so it tries to deinterlace a progressive image. In motion, 2D titles do suffer. And despite being clear and colourful, it's not a particularly great upscale...and no scanlines!
Mega Drive games were actually near unplayable even when the image was stable until I did the mod last night.
Is this the reason why anything that involved some kind of flicker - the fake transparencies in SNK and CAPCOM games on the Saturn, for instance - looks really bad on modern TV, if you straight up conncect your old systems to one of them? Would the Mini bring all those effects back to normal, on a display like yours (or mine, which works with 240p in the very same way)?
Taking shameless advantage of your post to add my related request as well.
Any tips on how to tweak the V-Linearity/Slope/Size/Zoom and S-Correction values, on a Trinitron KV21fX30B CRT TV? I'm having a hard time figuring out how related all these settings are, and even though I'm aware I won't be able to fix some geometry issues of my screen, I'm pretty sure I can still improve things a little bit.
So the TV was confused by the Composite Video? Damn these new TVs really suck with old hardware :/
Yeah, that's too much.
Something odd... using the converter, PC Engine RGB-to-Composite has no dot crawl whereas NES, SNES and Gen all do to one degree or another. The PC-E signal is nearly identical to the S-Video conversion. I wonder what's different about this system from the rest.
Silly me, I forgot to test Composite on my BVM this weekend. The controls have a comb filter option that should get rid of the dot crawl altogether.
You mean take a photo of my monitor running Sonic on the converted RGB-to-Composite? I can do that later when I get home from work.
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