I went with the coax upgrade on all my cables too. They're thick as fuck just how I like them.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
I received an email from Video Game Perfection today, because I was [deep] on their pre-order list.
What number range are you in? I'm in the low 700s.
I have a few CRTs for pickup in NYC. They each have issues which is why I'd rather give them away for whoever wants them.
Sony PVM-8040
8" PVM with screen burn-in, mainly obvious in light scenes. It works well besides that.
JVC DT-V1710CG
17" HD CRT, mid 2000s. This one stings a bit to give away because I wanted to keep it as backup for my main DT-V1710CG, but whatever. Has purity/color problems (delivery damage) on the top left and top right/middle edges of the screen. Works great otherwise... very sharp, bright and colorful, low hours on the tube. It comes with no inputs: you will need to obtain your own input cards for Composite/S-Video or RGB/Component or it will be useless for retro gaming or anything really. I know a little trick with placing a couple of small round magnets on top of the case that completely gets rid of the problem at power up/auto-degauss, but it needs to be done each time the monitor is turned on. You can sort of see the screen issues in this pic with the shifted colors on the goofy guy next to Doronjo:
Ikegami TM14-17R
13" CRT, mid 1990s. It has a nice picture with softer lines that sets it apart from the typical sharp PVM look. I turned it on a couple of weeks ago and had a very dim picture even at max brightness. I tried it again last night and it was somehow back to normal. I flew threw a chunk of Super Mario 3 without the problem returning. The top of the screen has slight jitter. Maybe the dim picture was a one-time anomaly, but worth mentioning.
Sony PVM-8040
8" PVM with screen burn-in, mainly obvious in light scenes. It works well besides that.
JVC DT-V1710CG
17" HD CRT, mid 2000s. This one stings a bit to give away because I wanted to keep it as backup for my main DT-V1710CG, but whatever. Has purity/color problems (delivery damage) on the top left and top right/middle edges of the screen. Works great otherwise... very sharp, bright and colorful, low hours on the tube. It comes with no inputs: you will need to obtain your own input cards for Composite/S-Video or RGB/Component or it will be useless for retro gaming or anything really. I know a little trick with placing a couple of small round magnets on top of the case that completely gets rid of the problem at power up/auto-degauss, but it needs to be done each time the monitor is turned on. You can sort of see the screen issues in this pic with the shifted colors on the goofy guy next to Doronjo:
Ikegami TM14-17R
13" CRT, mid 1990s. It has a nice picture with softer lines that sets it apart from the typical sharp PVM look. I turned it on a couple of weeks ago and had a very dim picture even at max brightness. I tried it again last night and it was somehow back to normal. I flew threw a chunk of Super Mario 3 without the problem returning. The top of the screen has slight jitter. Maybe the dim picture was a one-time anomaly, but worth mentioning.
Not sure -- where does it say?
'LAST OF THE FIRST BATCH' was in the subject line. (Sorry! Lol)
Here's some shots I took of Castlevania: SOTN on the PS1 via the OSSC. I'm using a Dell U2715H monitor.
The blizzz review mentioned that the OSSC is uncompressed RGB throughout. The vivid and sharp picture from the OSSC sometimes give the impression that I'm playing on an emulator.
Also, I'd welcome suggestions from anyone on how to take better photos. Thanks.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
holy hell does that look good.
It's kinda weird how, in this modern era where I can actually use RGB and scanlines, older games just look like fucking art now. As in, they look way better to me than the actual HD 2D games we get today.
It's kinda weird how, in this modern era where I can actually use RGB and scanlines, older games just look like fucking art now. As in, they look way better to me than the actual HD 2D games we get today.
sixteen-bit
Member
looking good!
Thanks all. I'll take pics of more games and post them tomorrow.
I agree. I'm generalizing but for me it's like comparing Cowboy Bebop to modern anime. Different art styles and talent gapes. For example, I can't imagine the time it took to make a sprite or background in Metal Slug. I'm assuming it's a mix of time, budget, and talent. Having said that, Cuphead looks phenomenal, but it's been in development for six years!
I believe most are 240p. For whatever reason some games (mostly RPGs) are 240p but their menus are 480i.
I agree. I'm generalizing but for me it's like comparing Cowboy Bebop to modern anime. Different art styles and talent gapes. For example, I can't imagine the time it took to make a sprite or background in Metal Slug. I'm assuming it's a mix of time, budget, and talent. Having said that, Cuphead looks phenomenal, but it's been in development for six years!
I believe most are 240p. For whatever reason some games (mostly RPGs) are 240p but their menus are 480i.
You're too kind dude. Sent you a PM.
nogoodnamesleft
Banned
It looks good, yes, but what does it have over ther XRGB mini? It looks the same. Ive got my eye on an OSSC but mainly looking for the benefits over the mini (apart from supposedly the firmware will be updated more often)
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
The color, no chroma shift issue (unless that was fixed), less input lag, much better 240p->480i switching, and less tinkering necessary. I think those are the main things.
And it apparently has a couple of neat tricks like letting you play 480p PS2 games over RGB (RGB less noisy than component on the PS2) and giving you a good VGA transcoder for playing DC games on modern TVs.
nogoodnamesleft
Banned
The colour? what specifically?
I havent noticed chroma shift, but to be fair, i only have owned in for 2 months and have always had the latest firmware.
480p over RGB sounds nice though. As does the VGA. But it seems like its both output great images with good scanlines, no? I want to be sold on one but it sounds more like a sidegrade than an upgrade.
It's definitely a side grade. It's not upscaling to 1080p output as far as I know, only 480p (or 720p on some select displays).
That said, it looks like a better solution than the xrgb from what I can see (if it's the real deal). It's a much cleaner processing method without a frame buffer.
Playing with the A/D level to sort of curb the chroma shift is a real thing on the Mini. It's especially noticeable on text. The mini also exhibits some noise in its picture. Color range is also reduced compare to the OSSC.
At the end of day the mini has some quirks that are limited by its off the shelf hardware makeup. The OSSC on the other hand is very Spartan in comparison. The only processing it does is line doubling/tripling, ADC, and doesn't down sample colors. The result is the cleanest image possible for a converter of its kind.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
How much do these OSSC cost for the premade? First time hearing about this thing.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I think mine was like $200 shipped, give or take.
There's a number in your newsletter URL.
But if you're in the first batch (below 100), I don't see myself getting a turn until near christmas.
I'm in the low 700s too, I feel your pain. I want one of these in the worst way.
I think they're up to around 130 on the list.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I think one thing that hurts the OSSC IMHO compared to the Framemeister is that it doesn't handle audio (at least the ones I've seen reviewed didn't, granted those were pre-production units, so maybe my info is old and wrong). Which for my setup is a huge deal.
I know My Life in Gaming is doing testing on it and some other Framemeister alternatives and I'm interested in seeing their comparison. I do wonder if there's a difference for tvs upscalling from 480p to 1080p or 4k, vrs the Framemeister exporting at 1080p going right to 1080p or upscalling to 4k. 480p is like a 4.5x scale to 4k, 1080p however is a simple 2x scale to 4k.
Just some things to consider going forward.
I know My Life in Gaming is doing testing on it and some other Framemeister alternatives and I'm interested in seeing their comparison. I do wonder if there's a difference for tvs upscalling from 480p to 1080p or 4k, vrs the Framemeister exporting at 1080p going right to 1080p or upscalling to 4k. 480p is like a 4.5x scale to 4k, 1080p however is a simple 2x scale to 4k.
Just some things to consider going forward.
For me, not a massive issue as I can use a scart breakout to my Sony surround sound phono input.
Anyhow, I'm still getting the xrgb this month and I'll get the ossc later in the year
Ossc's price is only a day and a half's pay for me so that's cool
I think you can output to 720p as well (line-tripling?) for what it's worth.
As for my number in the queue, I just went through all of my correspondence, and for the life of me couldn't find a number, but since I was able to get one of the remaining unit from the first batch, I must be around 100-somewhere. Below is what the email looked like:
Hi!
I'm contacting you lucky few people because we have been able to secure
a small batch of Open Source Scan Converters (OSSC). Since you were
amongst the first people to put your name down on the waiting list, I'm
now inviting you to place your order. You can order the unit here:-
URL
Please place your order at your earliest convenience. Your place will be
held in the queue for at least 48 hours, after that time if you haven't
placed an order, your place will be offered to the next person in the queue.
This is the final remaining stock of the first batch. The next batch will
be at least one month but contain many more units.
Thanks again for pre-ordering and we look forward to shipping your unit!
Kind regards,
Matt
I'm contacting you lucky few people because we have been able to secure
a small batch of Open Source Scan Converters (OSSC). Since you were
amongst the first people to put your name down on the waiting list, I'm
now inviting you to place your order. You can order the unit here:-
URL
Please place your order at your earliest convenience. Your place will be
held in the queue for at least 48 hours, after that time if you haven't
placed an order, your place will be offered to the next person in the queue.
This is the final remaining stock of the first batch. The next batch will
be at least one month but contain many more units.
Thanks again for pre-ordering and we look forward to shipping your unit!
Kind regards,
Matt
If you guys want to find your spot on the waitlist, just open your welcome email from when you subscribed and click second link to change subscriber options. In the URL on the page it links to you'll see something like "profile&ink=####" etc, that number is your spot in line.
FYI, I don't recommend sharing the entire link as someone else could just copy/paste and unsubscribe you.
FYI, I don't recommend sharing the entire link as someone else could just copy/paste and unsubscribe you.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It doesn't send audio over HDMI, but all you have to do is use a separate RCA cable to output that stuff. I suppose it's easier if you have a receiver.
Anyway, I had a feeling USPS would continue their parade of stupid, and... yeah, they are. Guess I'm not playing any video games till Monday.
Edit: Auuughhh. It's like my parents are punishing me for being bad. No video games for a whole weekend
I got the RGBHV/RGBS to Composite/S-Video converter and it works really well. I was expecting a shoddy POS but it works exactly like it should. I tested it last night with my AV Famicom, SNES and Genesis.
I have the converter connected to the fourth output of my switch. The converter itself has two separate outputs: Composite and S-Video. I first connected the Composite and S-Video to a single monitor and tested switching signals back and forth without any problem. Then I connected the Composite to another monitor to see if it could display its two signals simultaneously on two different displays, and that also worked fine. It was really neat seeing Composite, S-Video and RGB all at once from one console.
The Composite signal itself is as clean as I have ever seen it. It looks quite good on both NES and SNES, pretty close to S-Video quality except for some dot crawl and extra degradation. Genesis is more of a mixed bag. It's better than what I remember of the native Composite but I'll need to get fish out my Gen Composite cable and really compare. There's pretty severe rainbow banding on the waterfall in Sonic and the "shadows" in Comix Zone, but I believe this is a problem inherent with the source itself and not the converter. Some quick research indicates it's either aging caps in the console, RGB cable interference, or possibly the Composite encoder chip in the Genesis interfering with the RGB signal.
"Sadly" the signal is clear enough, or my monitors clean up the Composite signal so well, that some of the assets don't fully blend to make the intended transparency effects... Sonic's shield, bushes, Sonic 2 palm trees. Although I just remembered my BVM has Composite inputs on one of the video cards with full control to turn off comb filters and manipulate the Composite signal. I'm not sure if this would make any difference but it's worth a try.
I was briefly getting a very wavy picture with bad color bleed, but after moving it around to checking all the connections it went away. I'm attributing that to interference from all the other equipment and cables nearby.
I have the converter connected to the fourth output of my switch. The converter itself has two separate outputs: Composite and S-Video. I first connected the Composite and S-Video to a single monitor and tested switching signals back and forth without any problem. Then I connected the Composite to another monitor to see if it could display its two signals simultaneously on two different displays, and that also worked fine. It was really neat seeing Composite, S-Video and RGB all at once from one console.
The Composite signal itself is as clean as I have ever seen it. It looks quite good on both NES and SNES, pretty close to S-Video quality except for some dot crawl and extra degradation. Genesis is more of a mixed bag. It's better than what I remember of the native Composite but I'll need to get fish out my Gen Composite cable and really compare. There's pretty severe rainbow banding on the waterfall in Sonic and the "shadows" in Comix Zone, but I believe this is a problem inherent with the source itself and not the converter. Some quick research indicates it's either aging caps in the console, RGB cable interference, or possibly the Composite encoder chip in the Genesis interfering with the RGB signal.
"Sadly" the signal is clear enough, or my monitors clean up the Composite signal so well, that some of the assets don't fully blend to make the intended transparency effects... Sonic's shield, bushes, Sonic 2 palm trees. Although I just remembered my BVM has Composite inputs on one of the video cards with full control to turn off comb filters and manipulate the Composite signal. I'm not sure if this would make any difference but it's worth a try.
I was briefly getting a very wavy picture with bad color bleed, but after moving it around to checking all the connections it went away. I'm attributing that to interference from all the other equipment and cables nearby.
I've always been interested in it, but now I want one of these! Glad to hear it worked out fine.I got the RGBHV/RGBS to Composite/S-Video converter and it works really well. I was expecting a shoddy POS but it works exactly like it should. I tested it last night with my AV Famicom, SNES and Genesis.
I have the converter connected to the fourth output of my switch. The converter itself has two separate outputs: Composite and S-Video. I first connected the Composite and S-Video to a single monitor and tested switching signals back and forth without any problem. Then I connected the Composite to another monitor to see if it could display its two signals simultaneously on two different displays, and that also worked fine. It was really neat seeing Composite, S-Video and RGB all at once from one console.
The Composite signal itself is as clean as I have ever seen it. It looks quite good on both NES and SNES, pretty close to S-Video quality except for some dot crawl and extra degradation. Genesis is more of a mixed bag. It's better than what I remember of the native Composite but I'll need to get fish out my Gen Composite cable and really compare. There's pretty severe rainbow banding on the waterfall in Sonic and the "shadows" in Comix Zone, but I believe this is a problem inherent with the source itself and not the converter. Some quick research indicates it's either aging caps in the console, RGB cable interference, or possibly the Composite encoder chip in the Genesis interfering with the RGB signal.
"Sadly" the signal is clear enough, or my monitors clean up the Composite signal so well, that some of the assets don't fully blend to make the intended transparency effects... Sonic's shield, bushes, Sonic 2 palm trees. Although I just remembered my BVM has Composite inputs on one of the video cards with full control to turn off comb filters and manipulate the Composite signal. I'm not sure if this would make any difference but it's worth a try.
I was briefly getting a very wavy picture with bad color bleed, but after moving it around to checking all the connections it went away. I'm attributing that to interference from all the other equipment and cables nearby.
Shin Johnpv
Member
See the issue I have with it not sending audio means I would need more switchboxes, and they would just be for audio. Cause it has no audio output at all right? (I could be wrong here but I was under the impression that the OSSC handled no audio)
Can you clarify the setup again?
Edit:
Genesis RGB -> converter -> composite -> rainbow banding?
Can you make some pictures of the rainbow banding?
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It does get a bit confusing. The OSSC can accept audio through the RGB input, and there's a 3.5mm out. Use a 3.5mm to RCA cable, and you can hook it up to whatever sound system you're using.
I can't fully recommend it yet until further testing. There's a slight occasional jitter I noticed on close inspection and a very faint interference that crawls up near the top, apparent in the sky of Sonic 1 and SMB.
I'm using a 5-BNC RGBHV to VGA cable to connect switch to converter. This is a problem because all the console inputs are 4-BNC RGBS. The inputs and outputs must match to carry the signal from start to finish. I'm using a T-connector to combine the H and V lines on the RGBHV cable. This is not the right away to make a good RGBS singal and has given me problems before... I dunno what effect that's having on the integrity of the signal being fed into the converter. In short, I'm going to need a proper RGBS-to-VGA cable soon.
Besides that, it looks 95% perfect (as far as lower quality analog signals go).
I'll take pictures when I get home, but it's basically this on the left:
The setup is:
Consoles > Scart cables > Scart to RGBS cables > Matrix Switch > RGBHV to VGA cable > Composite/S-video Converter > Plain Composite cable and plain S-video cable > Monitors with Composite and S-video connections
I swear I'm not crazy. This looks simple in person.
Another pic I found. It's pretty strong banding and it moves as you run past it, total eyesore so I'll be glad to get rid of it (which is apparently possible). It doesn't show up in either native RGB or the converter's S-video. Only Composite.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I don't really like this kind of solution. I did something similar for a while on another setup I had and it sucks. Mixing hdmi and analog audio in just never works right.
My "sound system" is 100% analog, output from the TV to an amplifier that has 1 set of RCA jacks. Switching means buying a crummy switcher or doing a reach behind.
Yeah I could make all of this a million times more complicated and spend hundreds to thousands on digital "receiver" but fuck that.
Bought a PlayStation RGBs cable so ready to go back to the ps1/2 era. I also bought a used copy of the digital video essentials dvd to use on my PVM. I don't currently have a way to run the 240p test suite. The Genesis cart looked like a good option at $20, but shipping is $15. Almost half way to an everdrive there. Then there is the option of buying a dreamcast for ~$50 and using that, and then having a dreamcast. Hmm, decisions.
You won't get rid of it unless you can change the PAL/NTSC encoding filters....It doesn't show up in either native RGB or the converter's S-video. Only Composite.
32X has a better filter network with luma better separated from chroma.
Would be cool if the converter would allow to adjust the filter coefficients.
RadarScope1
Member
Been thinking about a PS2 RGB cable myself, so please give your impressions! Running via s-vid now and it's quite good.
Done. I'll take more once I get further. I forgot how bad I am at the game.
This was a really decisive aspect of the OSSC throughout it's development. I welcomed it because I directly connect HDMI to my PC monitor and hope the device has separate analog or digital outputs for my DAC which connects to my speaker amps. Hopefully, if the OSSC is successful, there could be a hardware revision that would provide a solution for everyone's setup.
So I tried to take some photos of a PS1 game that had used polygons to give an idea of the OSSC's performance with 3d.
Dell U2715H, Retro_Console_Accessories Coax SCART, OSSC, 240p Line x3, Scanlines at 31%.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I dunno if it's the off-screen shot of it or what, but the color really does look stupid good.
*sigh* what a waste of a weekend this is gonna be without it.
*sigh* what a waste of a weekend this is gonna be without it.
Actually some bright spark has produced an add-on board that will add Audio to the DVI input, should be out soon and not hard to install at all
Will do. I have S-video as well and have S-video input on my PVM. In hindsight I maybe should have just stuck with that as I think my PVM over/underscan is much better via S-Video than RGBs, currently at least. I have not done any setting changes yet via the service menu.
Thinking more on the 240p test suite and Dreamcast probably isn't a good option as I would have to buy cables etc for it as well. Back to an Everdrive I guess. Question on the Super Everdrive vs SD2SNES. SD2SNES touts a real system clock as a major difference. Is it worth the extra money? The SD card size and read time to load the games are not that big of a deal for me.
have you tried alerting the 'Video LPF' settings??
"Video low-pass filter. Filters out high-frequency noise on video, and can reduce jitter when sampling clock does not match input video dot clock rate (e.g. older consoles in linedouble mode). NOTE: The last 3 settings are not effective with VGA input in RGBHV/RGBS mode.
Auto: Suitable LPF is automatically selected based on input source and video mode [default]
Off: LPF is disabled.
95MHz (HDTV II): 95MHz bandwidth suitable for 1080p
35MHz (HDTV I): 35MHz bandwidth suitable for 720p
16MHz (EDTV): 16MHz bandwidth suitable for 480p etc. EDTV formats
9MHz (SDTV): 9MHz bandwidth suitable for 240p, 480i etc. SDTV formats"
So it is something happening at the converter level? Bummer. I wouldn't know how to go about doing any filter adjustments if it's even possible like you said.
What... what is that? o_o
Is that Framemeister stuff? I don't have one of those.
You can see the differences here:
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2015/05/snes-flash-carts-sd2snes-vs-snes.html
I think the SD2SNES is worth it for the CD audio games, the extra games it can play and possibility of future upgrades to play more enhancement chip games.
Thank you! I have read several reviews and comparison charts but this was the most informative one in actually using the products.
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