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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Ok, that makes sense, but yeah, it's gonna be limited.
We're seeing this sort of thing a lot this year within the retro gaming community. Hi-Def Nes, UltraHDMI, GCVideo, etc. have all appeared and these small businesses are having trouble keep up balancing the demand with the production costs. I would love to get my hands on all of them one day but I don't see the fervor dying down anytime soon.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I will say, the OSSC feels really solid and is a satisfying size. It also has a delightful electronic smell.
That's one way of describing it.
Glad to see I'm not the only one smelling everything I buy.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
You paid for that essence, inhale away!
Let's just say one cannot escape the smell whilst opening the package.
The new smell is half the fun of buying stuff! Question about the OSCC: is it any benefit for scaling 480p content like GC, Wii and vWii? I don't know if it's just the way Wii looks upscaled, but I'm not 100% satisfied with any combination of settings between my Wii U and plasma. I wonder if setting the Wii U to 480p and the OSCC handles upscaling would help.
CRT related, there's a cheap-ish Sony PVM-14L2 on ebay. Quote this post for link and disregard the listing's mislabeled model number.
I have this one. Great monitor for anyone who wants to jump into owning a nice little pro CRT.
CRT related, there's a cheap-ish Sony PVM-14L2 on ebay. Quote this post for link and disregard the listing's mislabeled model number.
I have this one. Great monitor for anyone who wants to jump into owning a nice little pro CRT.
Great find! Someone should jump on this. I also have a 14L2 and it's a nice little PVM.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I asked that on shmups forum, and Fudoh's answer was basically "maybe." At worst, it'll be as good as if you just piped it through the TV directly. But depending on your TV, the OSSC might do a better job of transcoding. The Wii isn't going to look any less like ass by running it through the OSSC, though.
Thanks. Seems like it's still too early with a lot of uncertainty until more people start getting theirs and testing out all sorts of hardware.
I'm so tempted to buy this, but I've had bad luck with getting these shipped in the past and the seller doesn't have much feedback.
Hmm... what to do what to do.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Uhh.... guys? GUYS?
I have never seen video games look this good.
I have never seen video games look this good.
That good eh?=O
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It's better than I thought it'd be, even just doing linedouble. I'll take pics and stuff when it gets darker out -- there's a shit ton of glare in my house right now.
tfw still on the waiting list
Good to hear. My technical knowledge with upscalers is lacking so I've had a lot of trouble describing how happy I am with the OSSC. From both a performance and usability standpoint the OSSC beats the Framemeister. It's just in the breadth of features that the Framemeister pulls ahead. Can't wait to see some photos.
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, fudoh spoke highly of it as an option - less flexibility, but no input lag does sound pretty cool!
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Less flexibility is a benefit, as far as I'm concerned.
I plugged 3 systems in, didn't fuck with a single thing, and they all looked fucking great. This is an XRGB for people who want to play games, not tinker with them.
IrishNinja
Member
PC gamers all over this forum are weeping
me, i just buy games to tinker with them
me, i just buy games to tinker with them
That's interesting you say that since I was just reading the comparison page on retrorgb, which says the exact opposite in its recommendations. If you don't want to mess around with things they recommend the Framemeister, but if you're okay with tinkering then the OSSC might be the one for you.
Not saying this in a calling you out type manner or anything, I truly just finished reading that and I think the opposite impressions are interesting.
If I hadn't just purchased a Framemeister I'd be in a real tough pickle right now choosing one over the other.
Looking forward to when it gets to my place on the ossc list, which going by current shipping will be near christmas - but that's cool.
My framemeister left Japan yesterday, so should have it soon! I have no issues buying it due to the low price of the ossc, delay in me being able to get one on the waiting list, and that the framemeister has insane resell value here in the UK if I did decide to keep the ossc over it
My framemeister left Japan yesterday, so should have it soon! I have no issues buying it due to the low price of the ossc, delay in me being able to get one on the waiting list, and that the framemeister has insane resell value here in the UK if I did decide to keep the ossc over it
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Weird. The other reviews I saw all came to the same conclusion I did... Sure you didn't read retrorgb's review backwards?
I mean, I'll admit, I turned off scanlines when I loaded up crazy taxi, but that's the extent of the tweaking I've needed.
Here ya go:
Basically, OSSC could be easy, or it could require a lot of work on your end depending on your initial results based on your set. So I can see how it can be a fairly flawless experience for one person, and a little more ofd a headache for others. He goes into more details in the proper OSSC review.
IrishNinja
Member
*shrug* i literally enable a profile before playing a certain system...if both devices work fine as-is but offer tinkering options, again that's kinda cool
nogoodnamesleft
Banned
Yeah. I load profile, and im set,.
If the OSSC offers HANDS DOWN better IQ for ALL systems though, im getting it. If not? ill stick to the FM. The FM already offers gorgeous IQ.
I'd love to play around with both, but my GF would kill me @_@
IrishNinja
Member
i mean, some aren't as big on 480i stuff (PS2 games mainly im guessing?), im cool with it but if this does that better, that'd be great to see
ah, ive the hardware & profile but not tried it out yet - ill see what i can do man!
Yesssss, that would be awesome! Thanks
Hmmm I wonder if my xrgb will arrive at mine by the end of the week or not. It left Japan at 6am JST, which means it will arrive in the UK around 9 or 10am GMT (crazy timezone time travel shit!!)
I did set the customs value as £18...but I realised after that the threshold for commercial imports is £15. Really hope I don't get caught out as the royal mail slap on an £8 handling fee, which is fucking stupid for what will be £3.60 of tax!!
Hmmm I wonder if my xrgb will arrive at mine by the end of the week or not. It left Japan at 6am JST, which means it will arrive in the UK around 9 or 10am GMT (crazy timezone time travel shit!!)
I did set the customs value as £18...but I realised after that the threshold for commercial imports is £15. Really hope I don't get caught out as the royal mail slap on an £8 handling fee, which is fucking stupid for what will be £3.60 of tax!!
I got news for you... ... ... It won't. It won't deinterlace like the FM. It just line doubles and line doubling 480i is pretty terrible. However, it does have a passthrough for 480i that you can enable and depending on the quality of the receiving device, 480i can look good in the end. The lack of a frame buffer has other consequences too though - no zoom features. PSP am cry.
For progressive images the OSSC is a godsend, and if you have a display capable of making 480i look presentable, the OSSC will cover you for most things... The PSP being a huge exception.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Alright, let's go.
Here's the complete clusterfuck of a setup I'm working with as I test:
Systems are going to the OSSC via RGB (or VGA in the Dreamcast's case), and I'm running a DVI->HDMI cable to the TV, directly. The audio is going from a 3.5mm to RCA cable to the Marantz.
So, my shots came out horribly. They're really bad, and I'm kind of ashamed. But I'll post them anyway because I might as well get my money's worth. Even so, let's start with my 240p->480i switching test, since that was a big enough deal to me that I didn't buy the Framemeister because of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THdwptzMMpA
It's... really fucking good. The Chrono Cross in-game menu has some loading when you open it, so it's kind of tough to use that as an absolute barometer of how well the device handles the res switching, which is why I started the video from when the game first loads up, since there's a few resolution switches that take place along the way. It's... from what I can tell, seamless. I also tested Soukyugurentai on the Saturn, which has a high-res main menu, and there was no delay there, either. I didn't have a chance to test how piping video through the receiver would affect things -- supposedly, more stuff in the chain can introduce delay -- but going directly to the TV is fine. If you were bothered by the XRGB-3 and Framemeister's issues on this front, I feel confident in saying this is the solution.
My crappy shots:
Chrono Cross:
Castlevania always looks good. Let's go with a different one this time:
Dreamcast shots didn't come out well. Too much fast motion. I'll try retaking better ones when I have a chance, but holy hell did it look good on this thing. And it's also nice that the OSSC supports 720x480, rather than forcing you to use 640x480, like a lot of other devices do:
To test 480i, I tried out Dragon Quest VIII. It still looked really good despite not being a progressive signal:
Saturn looked stunning:
Obviously, I haven't had much time to dick around with this thing, but my first thought was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXRP5kP417Y
The colors really are stupid good, especially in person. Across the board, really, everything I threw at it just looked pristine -- genuinely better than I've ever seen these games look. No issues with input lag, no tinkering after the initial setup... it's all been problem free. The sound quality is also better than what I remember hearing on the XRGB-3. That box had some issues with degrading audio when you used the RGB input and output it over the XRGB's 3.5mm out. Everything sounds pristine here.
So, first impressions are obviously positive. And after basically 2 years of not being able to play any old games (thanks to to my XRGB-3's untimely death), that's a relief.
Now, if you'll excuse me, Ima go play some video games.
Here's the complete clusterfuck of a setup I'm working with as I test:
Systems are going to the OSSC via RGB (or VGA in the Dreamcast's case), and I'm running a DVI->HDMI cable to the TV, directly. The audio is going from a 3.5mm to RCA cable to the Marantz.
So, my shots came out horribly. They're really bad, and I'm kind of ashamed. But I'll post them anyway because I might as well get my money's worth. Even so, let's start with my 240p->480i switching test, since that was a big enough deal to me that I didn't buy the Framemeister because of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THdwptzMMpA
It's... really fucking good. The Chrono Cross in-game menu has some loading when you open it, so it's kind of tough to use that as an absolute barometer of how well the device handles the res switching, which is why I started the video from when the game first loads up, since there's a few resolution switches that take place along the way. It's... from what I can tell, seamless. I also tested Soukyugurentai on the Saturn, which has a high-res main menu, and there was no delay there, either. I didn't have a chance to test how piping video through the receiver would affect things -- supposedly, more stuff in the chain can introduce delay -- but going directly to the TV is fine. If you were bothered by the XRGB-3 and Framemeister's issues on this front, I feel confident in saying this is the solution.
My crappy shots:
Chrono Cross:
Castlevania always looks good. Let's go with a different one this time:
Dreamcast shots didn't come out well. Too much fast motion. I'll try retaking better ones when I have a chance, but holy hell did it look good on this thing. And it's also nice that the OSSC supports 720x480, rather than forcing you to use 640x480, like a lot of other devices do:
To test 480i, I tried out Dragon Quest VIII. It still looked really good despite not being a progressive signal:
Saturn looked stunning:
Obviously, I haven't had much time to dick around with this thing, but my first thought was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXRP5kP417Y
The colors really are stupid good, especially in person. Across the board, really, everything I threw at it just looked pristine -- genuinely better than I've ever seen these games look. No issues with input lag, no tinkering after the initial setup... it's all been problem free. The sound quality is also better than what I remember hearing on the XRGB-3. That box had some issues with degrading audio when you used the RGB input and output it over the XRGB's 3.5mm out. Everything sounds pristine here.
So, first impressions are obviously positive. And after basically 2 years of not being able to play any old games (thanks to to my XRGB-3's untimely death), that's a relief.
Now, if you'll excuse me, Ima go play some video games.
IrishNinja
Member
even with what you're working with, that looks great - and CV chronicles was an excellent choice too! pretty cool to be able to point at a worthwhile option that's more accessible, at least once it hits mass market (haven't really followed development/etc)
Triggered.
RGB =/= SCART. RGB can be carried over VGA, SCART, HDMI... but you know this.Did you set the OSSC to pass through 480i or are you line doubling it? Your 480i shots do look a bit blurred and lack detail, so I assume the latter.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Triggered.
Did you set the OSSC to pass through 480i or are you line doubling it?
Lol, JP21 RGB is just too much of a pain to type. Didn't wanna call it scart, either, cuz I'm using a jp21 cable connected to a jp21 to scart adapter. ANYWAY...
OSSC was linedoubling it.
We are all well initiated here. JP21 and VGA would convey the meaning well enough. I'm done being anal about it for now though.
Yeah, I could tell. As I pointed out in my edit, it did look a bit blurred and lacking detail. Color still looks rich though.
Thanks for your impressions so far.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
All of the shots I took that didn't have scanlines ended up looking kinda blurry. I should try retaking them -- they're not a great representation of what those systems were outputting.
You've certainly gotten me interested in the OSSC too. And this seems cheaper than the Framemeister as well.
This the only site to preorder this at the moment?
https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-converter/
This the only site to preorder this at the moment?
https://www.videogameperfection.com/products/open-source-converter/
TBH, in line doubling mode 480i just won't be very representative at all as half the detail is missing in every frame. If your TV doesn't saw tooth or line double 480i, it'll be better to use passthrough mode. There's no processing that the OSSC will do to improve the image as once the image gets to your TV, it'll get down sampled in either mode.
The advantage of the OSSC is purely in how it compares to the FM. Using an uncompressed color space and not applying processing is how it has deeper and cleaner color detail compared to the FM. However, like I said, your TV inevitably down samples color anyway, and hopefully it does a better job than the FM. In your case, that does seem to be true. However if someone were to connect the OSSC to a TV that handles sampling terribly, there probably won't be much difference and the OSSC's advantages go out the window... Save for the lag advantage.
There are instances where an HDTV has an option to operate in 4:4:4 mode and there's no down sampling in the chain at all. That is the ideal scenario. Unfortunately, most instances are limited to the TV's native resolution and the feature can't be implemented bellow the set's native res. That's how my plasma operates and it's kinda irritating, but I'm not too mad since its sampling methods are of a nice quality. No method is perfect however, but that's a whole other conversation...
digita1alchemy
Member
What TV do you have?
Shin Johnpv
Member
I tell you Krikzz has been the only one that seems to be able to keep up with demand. I don't know why, or what he does differently, but he seems to do a good job of it.
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