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[Peltz]

iirc, the green screen when watching a DVD on a PS2 via RGB is by design. You are supposed to use Composite to watch films. You can bypass this limitation by using software or mod chips.

Use component (although I think that's probably what you meant). Don't bother with composite or S-Video for DVD playback.

 

[televator]

OSCC seems pretty nice. I signed up for the waiting list although I'm fine if they don't get to me until the holidays or early 2017. I'm in no urgent need for it.


I was looking through the N64 game with best graphics thread and I had a post from June in there which no one answered. It's about the PS1's output and bit depth. This needs some context so I'll post the discussion from this thread that led to my post in the N64 thread, starting off with televator's post which kicked off the discussion here. Anyone have any insight into this?


(My unanswered post in the N64 thread asking for clarification from krejlooc)


I've read this a few times in your past posts, but I can't find anything anywhere that states the PS1 framebuffer outputs a 8bpp image. All the documentation and online discussions I've come across state that the hardware strictly has 24bit (mainly FMV and stills) and 15 bit color modes (in-game graphics).

http://psx.rules.org/gpu.txt


Furthermore, a 8bpp image by itself would not lead to massive full-screen dithering by itself... and this is just my observation, but common dithering techniques on a 8-bit image itself is subtle enough not to be as blatant as what's happening in PS1 screengrabs. Something else in the hardware would be applying that ugly dithering separately. I took one of your "8bpp" GT pics and changed it to GIF or PNG-8 (256 color limit) and hundreds, if not thousands, of colors are dropped on close-up inspection. How then can that be if the image output by the framebuffer is supposed to already be 8 bits/256 colors? Unless I'm missing something obvious, that doesn't make any sense. From what I've seen and read others say, the GPU outputs a 24-bit image that is then reduced to 15 bits in the framebuffer and at some point dithering is OPTIONALLY applied to mitigate the possibly resulting color banding (all depending on the game developer).

If this is completely wrong, please let me know. Just curious and trying to make sense of it.
(end of original post)

Yo, Mega, I've done some pondering on this and I think I can conclude that the PS1 is indeed a strict 15bit (5bpc) graphics machine. Let's consider that in those days computer graphics accommodated 16bit color. In fact, if you tried to run an old PC game on a modern machine natively in a 32/36 bit OS it will fail to work. There does appear to be a hard cap @ 16bit for games of that era. The Saturn as well is a 15 bit machine, and it's highly likely that the N64 is too.

The wrench in the gears of this assumption of mine is that emulators are perfectly capable of reproducing 32bit color from these games... It could mean several things to me. The processor of the PS1 is capable of drawing from a wide RGB pallet before writing to the FB, or the emulator is simply expanding 15bit to 32bit like how the Framemeister does, or something else entirely.

You are correct in that limiting bit depth from a bigger one to a smaller one alone does not cause dithering. If I understood missle correctly, that's a filter which dithers the image after the fact, and there's various types of filter patterns

 

[Peagles]

Anyone in AZ looking for a PVM?

 

[Grief.exe]

These Symphony of the Night screenshots got me browsing Craigslist for a PS1.

 

[baphomet]

These Symphony of the Night screenshots got me browsing Craigslist for a PS1.

I'm pretty sure I have a few modded psones if you want. I'm in Henderson if you know where that's at, or plan on hitting up the Level 7 Games 7 year anniversary this weekend.

I'll be at the Alameda store with my pvm and supergun and a handful of arcade PCBs.

 

[Einhandr]

Got some questions about the vp20/30 that maybe someone can answer. I see the deinterlacing menu, which has the game mode 1/2 as options along with the 2:2/3:3 pull down. This is supposedly the menu that replaces an older one once the deinterlacing card is installed. Only those menu options are greyed out and non selectable. Also noticed the firmware is only 1.01 version. Does this mean the card is installed but I'm missing the necessary files/firmware for it to be used? I'm also having issues with analog audio inputs not outputting sound through HDMI, but HDMI sources output HDMI audio fine (PS3). I'm wondering if this is a firmware issue as well.

 

[baphomet]

Got some questions about the vp20/30 that maybe someone can answer. I see the deinterlacing menu, which has the game mode 1/2 as options along with the 2:2/3:3 pull down. This is supposedly the menu that replaces an older one once the deinterlacing card is installed. Only those menu options are greyed out and non selectable. Also noticed the firmware is only 1.01 version. Does this mean the card is installed but I'm missing the necessary files/firmware for it to be used? I'm also having issues with analog audio inputs not outputting sound through HDMI, but HDMI sources output HDMI audio fine (PS3). I'm wondering if this is a firmware issue as well.

The ABT-102 card is barely held in there. I suggest opening it to verify its plugged in if it has one.

 

[Einhandr]

The ABT-102 card is barely held in there. I suggest opening it to verify its plugged in if it has one.

Ok I'll have a look inside. It came in the mail today and just pulled it out and hooked it up for the first time.

Also s-video, HDMI and composite video seem to work fine. Cannot test RGB until tomorrow.

Edit: Opened it up, no deinterlacing card installed. Did find a loose PCB screw floating around inside the housing so I re-secured it. I will look into getting a serial cable and USB to serial adapter. Though it looks like I'll have to contact support to get firmware?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

More OSSC shots...!

Actually been playing MM8 since it's been a long time since I've run through it.

Some Batsugun pics. I know, I know, I'm a scrub cuz I'm not using Tate mode here:

Everyone likes 'Vania!:

Another 3D game:

And a 480i shot with passthrough turned on:

I did try Chrono Cross again with passthrough on, and it didn't add any delay to the proceedings, for what that's worth.

 

[Timu]

^Looking good!!!

 

[televator]

Thanks for the passthrough shot. As I expected, color still looks great, and I think there's more detail in the frame. Did you see any combing?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Thanks for the passthrough shot. As I expected, color still looks great, and I think there's more detail in the frame. Did you see any combing?

None at all, and I would've expected to see it in an older game like Dark Cloud, with it's visual style.

 

[Galdelico]

More OSSC shots...!

Man, this thing looks great...

Hope you don't mind a couple of questions:

- you said you didn't mess around too much with the settings, but how much/little do they add, for instance in terms of customizing the size of the picture or the frame? With the Mega Drive, you often have colored overscan backgrounds that I find extremely ugly and distracting, and the Mini seems to allow you to get rid of them, by tweaking a couple of different settings. Any news around, yet, on how well the OSSC can deal with that issue?

- did you have the chance to try out any SNK or Capcom fighting game on the Saturn, with the OSSC? I'm curious to know how well it handles all those fake-transparencies, such as the flickering shadows in KoF or Real Bout games, or the smoke/lighting effects in some Street Fighter Zero 2 stages.

Thanks in advance anyway!

 

[missile]

...

(My unanswered post in the N64 thread asking for clarification from krejlooc)

No, those consoles could in fact produce all the colors necessary natively. This is not the "native" frame he is talking about. This is indeed the final output framebuffer, but it is produced by reducing the color depth from 18/16/whatever bpp the originally rendered frame was at to 8bpp, which is what causes the dithering. he's asking if is possible to get at the original frame before the reduction in color depth occurs, and in some cases it is.

I've read this a few times in your past posts, but I can't find anything anywhere that states the PS1 framebuffer outputs a 8bpp image. All the documentation and online discussions I've come across state that the hardware strictly has 24bit (mainly FMV and stills) and 15 bit color modes (in-game graphics). ...

krejlooc explanation is half right. The numbers are completely wrong.

...
http://psx.rules.org/gpu.txt

Furthermore, a 8bpp image by itself would not lead to massive full-screen dithering by itself... and this is just my observation, but common dithering techniques on a 8-bit image itself is subtle enough not to be as blatant as what's happening in PS1 screengrabs. Something else in the hardware would be applying that ugly dithering separately. I took one of your "8bpp" GT pics and changed it to GIF or PNG-8 (256 color limit) and hundreds, if not thousands, of colors are dropped on close-up inspection. How then can that be if the image output by the framebuffer is supposed to already be 8 bits/256 colors? Unless I'm missing something obvious, that doesn't make any sense. ...

You don't miss anything.

... From what I've seen and read others say, the GPU outputs a 24-bit image that is then reduced to 15 bits in the framebuffer and at some point dithering is OPTIONALLY applied to mitigate the possibly resulting color banding (all depending on the game developer). ...

You are almost right.

Some remarks:
- PS1 framebuffer can be set to 15-bit (2 bytes) or 24-bit (3 bytes) color
- PS1 textures are never better than 15 bits
- PS1 24-bit does only apply to internal GPU shading computation

It goes as follows;
-> GPU sees polygon with 15-bit texture
-> GPU computes gouraud shading in 24-bit and combines with the texture color
-> if framebuffer == 24-bit: copy 24-bit GPU color to 24-bit framebuffer
-> if framebuffer == 15-bit && dither_flag == false:
--> discard the lower 3 bits of each GPU 8-bit color component (=> banding)
--> copy to 15-bit framebuffer
-> if framebuffer == 15-bit && dither_flag == true:
--> apply dithering to the GPU 24-bit color down to 15-bit (not 8-bit) color
--> copy 15-bit dithered color to 15-bit framebuffer

Result:
- the RGB color cube in 15-bit mode is 32Rx32Gx32B = 32768 colors
- plenty of shades to shade a 3d objects with arbitrary colored lights
- dithering from 256 down to 32 shades per color component is sufficient!

But why does it looks so bad at times?

Because the textures aren't dithered by the GPU (already 15-bit).

Only the shades from the lighting computation (24-bit) will be dithered.

The textures are 15-bit from the get-go, from the perspective of the GPU.

Now what?

Now how does the 15-bit texture became 15-bit in the first place?

Via quantization.

Now what 2?

Quantized 15-bit (banded) texture + GPU 15-bit dithered shade = meh.

Now what 3?

Quantized and dithered 15-bit texture + 15-bit dithered shade = ugly hell.

Why? Because double dithering leads to strong artifacts.

Without texturing, just shading, the dithering would look quite good.

Bottom line:
24-bit textures would alleviate the problem, but would also cost more RAM.
(the texture unit would also need to work with more bits, increasing cost)


Edit:
But you can also have fine dithered textures while skipping dithered shades.
(textures would look good, but the shading will band across the screen)

 

[digita1alchemy]

More OSSC shots...!

What model is your TV and does it accept 240p line triple mode? My unit should be arriving today.

 

[missile]

... You are correct in that limiting bit depth from a bigger one to a smaller one alone does not cause dithering. If I understood missle correctly, that's a filter which dithers the image after the fact, and there's various types of filter patterns

Indeed, it happens afterwards, once the GPU has computed the 24-bit shade.

PS1 dithering can be turned on/off within the GPUs control register.

 

[televator]

So I was right in one of my theories that the GPU computes from a higher depth before the FB?

 

[missile]

^ Yo. :+

The GPU computes the shade in 24-bit even if the framebuffer is set to 15-bit.
(otherwise you wouldn't be able to dither at all, if needed)

Edit:
I think it works like this (15-bit framebuffer):
-> GPU computes the shade in 24-bit in hardware, first
-> if(dither_flag == false): discard lower 3 bits of each color component
-> if(dither_flag == true): "run 24-bit shade through a 4x4 Bayer pattern"

Don't know the exact size of the pattern, but can be find out with some work.
(I guess it's just 2x2, giving 4 simulated shades for each true shade)

 

[televator]

Ah, okay... Hmmm. So the filter itself reduces bit depth to simulate the original computed frame, and in the case where no filter is used, 3 bits just get the chop and we see hard banding in global lighting as shades are reduced. These processes work independently from each other.

 

[missile]

Ah, okay... Hmmm. So the filter itself reduces bit depth to simulate the original computed frame, and in the case where no filter is used, 3 bits just get the chop and we see hard banding in global lighting as shades are reduced. These processes work independently from each other.

Yes. In the end, all bits will be reduced whether dithering is used or not.
(assuming a 15-bit framebuffer)

You can look at dithering as a clever way of rounding (*):
banding <-> simply truncate and be done with it no matter what's the error
dithering <-> clever way of rounding taking the error into account

(*) you have read it here first

 

[televator]

Thanks for the valuable input, missle. Really helped me understand how this works now.

 

[missile]

^ Dithering is a bit convoluted. But nowhere near any rocket science.

You're welcome!

 

[Peltz]

krejlooc explanation is half right. The numbers are completely wrong.


You don't miss anything.


You are almost right.

Some remarks:
- PS1 framebuffer can be set to 15-bit (2 bytes) or 24-bit (3 bytes) color
- PS1 textures are never better than 15 bits
- PS1 24-bit does only apply to internal GPU shading computation

It goes as follows;
-> GPU sees polygon with 15-bit texture
-> GPU computes gouraud shading in 24-bit and combines with the texture color
-> if framebuffer == 24-bit: copy 24-bit GPU color to 24-bit framebuffer
-> if framebuffer == 15-bit && dither_flag == false:
--> discard the lower 3 bits of each GPU 8-bit color component (=> banding)
--> copy to 15-bit framebuffer
-> if framebuffer == 15-bit && dither_flag == true:
--> apply dithering to the GPU 24-bit color down to 15-bit (not 8-bit) color
--> copy 15-bit dithered color to 15-bit framebuffer

Result:
- the RGB color cube in 15-bit mode is 32Rx32Gx32B = 32768 colors
- plenty of shades to shade a 3d objects with arbitrary colored lights
- dithering from 256 down to 32 shades per color component is sufficient!

But why does it looks so bad at times?

Because the textures aren't dithered by the GPU (already 15-bit).

Only the shades from the lighting computation (24-bit) will be dithered.

The textures are 15-bit from the get-go, from the perspective of the GPU.

Now what?

Now how does the 15-bit texture became 15-bit in the first place?

Via quantization.

Now what 2?

Quantized 15-bit (banded) texture + GPU 15-bit dithered shade = meh.

Now what 3?

Quantized and dithered 15-bit texture + 15-bit dithered shade = ugly hell.

Why? Because double dithering leads to strong artifacts.

Without texturing, just shading, the dithering would look quite good.

Bottom line:
24-bit textures would alleviate the problem, but would also cost more RAM.
(the texture unit would also need to work with more bits, increasing cost)


Edit:
But you can also have fine dithered textures while skipping dithered shades.
(textures would look good, but the shading will band across the screen)

 

[Rich!]

Godfuckingdamnit why is the UK side of shipping always so shit

My xrgb seems to be in Heathrow limbo

Edit: yes, only a day but I'm impatient!

 

[Funky Papa]

A couple of hundred pages back I said that there were some hardcore motherfuckers in this thread.

I stand by my words.

 

[Rich!]

I'm not sure where I stand on the softcore to hardcore scale

Missle is like, maximum OG hardcore

Me reading his post:

 

[Peagles]

Maybe when I finish my thesis I'll have space in my brain for that hardcore shit.

Not right now though, too tired, lol.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I understood all of it!

 

[missile]

Guys, it's not that difficult. But thx for the flowers, nevertheless! :+

 

[Peagles]

Guys, it's not that difficult. But thx for the flowers, nevertheless! :+

It is when you been up 18 hours writing already, lol.

So cool to have a crazy wealth of info like that in here though.

 

[Rich!]

And I had a strong alcoholic drink just before attempting to read it, during my lunch break

lol

 

[Peagles]

And I had a strong alcoholic drink just before attempting to read it, during my lunch break

lol

Soon...

Spoiler

Well, late November, ugh. I keep having dreams about drinking too, it's weird. I don't even usually drink that much or often but not being allowed to must make me think about it more than usual...

 

[Funky Papa]

Well, it looks like I'll be going the UMSA route for my VGA to SCART rig.

I'm not afraid of cracking the old soldering iron, but the amount of testing involved till you get a proper homemade cable that works with most monitors seems like a daunting enterprise, whereas the UMSA is a straight up plug and play concern. I'm afraid I'd probably burn through a dozen of cables and connectors before getting it right, at which point it becomes a waste of time and money.

I'd also like to avoid the all too usual PSU fuckery that comes from powering too much shit from the computer (noisy computer PSUs are noisy) and the UMSA comes with a beautiful 5v input besides the molex pinout, so there's that.

Does anybody in this thread have any experience with the UMSA? It seems like an all around great solution for a GroovyArcade cabinet, but I'd like to be sure before I pull the trigger.

 

[missile]

Working on a lot of dithering for retro graphics, games, and artistic reasons.

DITHER FOR LIFE



Edit:

 

[Timu]

Well, it looks like I'll be going the UMSA route for my VGA to SCART rig.

I'm not afraid of cracking the old soldering iron, but the amount of testing involved till you get a proper homemade cable that works with most monitors seems like a daunting enterprise, whereas the UMSA is a straight up plug and play concern. I'm afraid I'd probably burn through a dozen of cables and connectors before getting it right, at which point it becomes a waste of time and money.

I'd also like to avoid the all too usual PSU fuckery that comes from powering too much shit from the computer (noisy computer PSUs are noisy) and the UMSA comes with a beautiful 5v input besides the molex pinout, so there's that.

Does anybody in this thread have any experience with the UMSA? It seems like an all around great solution for a GroovyArcade cabinet, but I'd like to be sure before I pull the trigger.

1st pic looks similar to a sync strike, which I use.

 

[Funky Papa]

Ok, so which one of you have already tried to clean your dirty ass CRTs using a dishwasher?

I've seen some folks cleaning their arcade PCBs with a goddamn hose and it blew my mind, but this is just crazy to me. I'm somewhat shocked moisture doesn't fuck things up in a catastrophic way. Not to mention the risk of getting zapped like a motherfucker by an itchy capacitor.

1st pic looks similar to a sync strike, which I use.

Well, it's kind of like the opposite thing. It takes RGB signal from a VGA port and turns it into RGB SCART. It looks similar because it's made by the same person.

 

[missile]

Ok, so which one of you have already tried to clean your dirty ass CRTs using a dishwasher?



I've seen some folks cleaning their arcade PCBs with a goddamn hose and it blew my mind, but this is just crazy to me. I'm somewhat shocked moisture doesn't fuck things up in a catastrophic way. Not to mention the risk of getting zapped like a motherfucker by an itchy capacitor.

lol xD

Never really clean the conus of a CRT. That "dirt" is the aquadag!

 

[ShowDog]

I have so much work ahead of me. Having 8 consoles connected to 3 displays via RGB is so much more complicated that you would think... fuck me. At first I wanted a mix of s-video and RGB so I wouldn't have to do any console mods (also simplify switching boxes etc). I would probably have gotten away with it with one display, but when running side by side the difference is like aw shit.

So RGB it is. Of course all my cheap $6 Aliexpress cables buzz like hell on audio when playing anything... can't have it. Have to rebuild custom for them all, probably with a vga connector. Then I'll need an extron crosspoint switcher. But even with that I'll need something else to get more than 1 source to go to the displays at a time.

Not to mention two of my displays are yuv only. I've got a 27" JVC that I need to perform an RGB mod on (luckily its easy!) . And a 27" Sony FV300 (RGB to YUV thanks to Jake from State Farm) that's a bit more beat than I'd like, that is going to take a lot of calibration for geometry and red push. We'll see how that goes. The only problem with bringing home a dud CRT is that I've got to borrow the wife's SUV to do it, usually for the whole day so I can nab it on the way home from work. Even when they're free and tucked away in the garage she can lack understanding about my "need" for more old ass tvs.

This will probably take me months. Luckily this is a pretty damn cheap hobby. Cost per time spent is trivial and keeping occupied can be an expensive endeavor as an adult. Keep it up with the inspiration here guys.

 

[Grief.exe]

I'm pretty sure I have a few modded psones if you want. I'm in Henderson if you know where that's at, or plan on hitting up the Level 7 Games 7 year anniversary this weekend.

I'll be at the Alameda store with my pvm and supergun and a handful of arcade PCBs.

oh wow, thanks!

I'm actually very busy this weekend with work and life responsibilities, but thanks for the offer.

More OSSC shots...!

Actually been playing MM8 since it's been a long time since I've run through it.

Is MM8 a good entry in the series? I know MMX is largely hit or miss.

 

[dubc35]

I was playing around with setups for ps2 last night. I noticed the RGB connection had less contrast compared to S-Video. I'll need to check that out more in the future; probably just calibration or perhaps the auto termination of the RGB out ports is not fulling working. Although I haven't noticed it on other consoles so that should rule the auto-termination out. I'm visiting the in laws this coming week so no PVM gaming for me for a while.

...Even when they're free and tucked away in the garage she can lack understanding about my "need" for more old ass tvs....

Haha, you should see my wife's eyes roll when I even bring up the topic.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Man, this thing looks great...

Hope you don't mind a couple of questions:

- you said you didn't mess around too much with the settings, but how much/little do they add, for instance in terms of customizing the size of the picture or the frame? With the Mega Drive, you often have colored overscan backgrounds that I find extremely ugly and distracting, and the Mini seems to allow you to get rid of them, by tweaking a couple of different settings. Any news around, yet, on how well the OSSC can deal with that issue?

- did you have the chance to try out any SNK or Capcom fighting game on the Saturn, with the OSSC? I'm curious to know how well it handles all those fake-transparencies, such as the flickering shadows in KoF or Real Bout games, or the smoke/lighting effects in some Street Fighter Zero 2 stages.

Thanks in advance anyway!

1. I think there are some options in there that might help, namely the horizontal and vertical mask settings. Here's a guide to the options the OSSC gives you: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/OSSC. Hopefully, that'll tell you what you need to know.

2. I haven't tried any Capcom fighters yet. I have Vampire Savior, Street Fighter Zero 3, and X-Men Vs. Street Fighter... and maybe another I'm forgetting. Whatever. I'll try one or two of those tonight.

What model is your TV and does it accept 240p line triple mode? My unit should be arriving today.

I dunno the exact model, but it's a Sony from 2 years ago. One of the higher-end models, that was supposed to be particularly good for games. I haven't tried linetriple mode yet; I just kinda assumed it wouldn't work.

Is MM8 a good entry in the series? I know MMX is largely hit or miss.

Depends on who you ask. It plays completely differently from the previous MM games, and some people don't like it because of that. I love it. The pacing feels right, there's a solid challenge, and there's a lot of variety in the obstacles in each level. The Saturn version also adds a couple of extra bosses over the PS1 version, which is kinda cool.

 

[Galdelico]

Thank you, those two options seem exactly what I meant, in order to fix that issue.
And also, with Vampire Savior, you can check this stage and the way the scarves on the ladies on the background look. If they don't flash badly/slowly (as they do in the video itself), but way faster - almost like they're transparent - then it's all good.

This OSSC sounds like my ideal solution...
Do you guys know if subscribing to the newsletter/mailing list at videogameperfection is the only way at the moment, in order to buy one unit once they'll become available again? Seems like they don't even accept preorders right now.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Their £12 cables are of exactly the same build quality than a $6 from China is all I'm saying. When you want quality cables, you need to pay a premium, regardless of where you are getting them.

And I'm saying I disagree with that. I have a few of their cables and have no issues with their build qualities. Mine are all recent in the last few months and have no problems, maybe a few years ago there were issues but I can't speak of that.

 

[Rich!]

And I'm saying I disagree with that. I have a few of their cables and have no issues with their build qualities. Mine are all recent in the last few months and have no problems, maybe a few years ago there were issues but I can't speak of that.

It's worth mentioning that this year brought a HUGE increase in the quality of their cables. They are now proper thick, and each wire is properly shielded.

And they are significantly better than the cheap Chinese crap.

 

[Khaz]

And I'm saying I disagree with that. I have a few of their cables and have no issues with their build qualities. Mine are all recent in the last few months and have no problems, maybe a few years ago there were issues but I can't speak of that.

You are assuming that when I say "not better than a cheap Chinese cable" I imply broken or non-working or flawed. This is not what I meant.

If you don't have any problem with their £12 cable, then you would have no problem with a Chinese cable either. Both use simple thin wires, have a single cable shield, without plating of any sort on the connectors. The only reason the Chinese cable is cheaper is because it's made in China.

It's worth mentioning that this year brought a HUGE increase in the quality of their cables. They are now proper thick, and each wire is properly shielded.

Yes, that's their "Packapunch" range. Good cables, but much more expensive. They have been offering them for a couple of years already.

 

[New002]

Hey everyone! I was hoping you all might be able to offer some opinions on what direction to go in with my NES

So I'm pretty new to to the whole idea of bringing my retro consoles up to speed in the visual department, but I've spent the last few weeks upgrading my systems to either Scart, Component, VGA, or at the very least S-Video connections. I have most of these running through an XRGB Mini to a 1080p Sony Bravia set.

One of the last consoles I need to tackle is the NES, but there are quite a few options, and I was hoping to get some peoples's thoughts as to maybe what direction to go in.

I currently own two toaster systems, and as best I can see these are my options:

1.) Have one one of the toasters RGB modded.

2.) Have one of the toasters HDMI modded (kevtris mod?)

3.) Hunt down an A/V Famicom and then have THAT modded.

4. Try and snag a RetroUSB AVS

Now, the RetroUSB was originally leading the pack, but the lack of 1080 output kind of turned me away. If this is a stupid reason for not wanting to get one, please let me know as that's the kind of feedback I'm looking for

But really, I'm open to any of these. If you were in my shoes with the set-up I've described, which path do you think you'd take?

Thanks so much in advance. I really appreciate it.

 

[Peltz]

Modding an AV Famicom is probably your most versatile option if you want FDS compatibility plus all Japan-exclusive sound channels. I'd go with that and pick up a converter for US releases.

The only thing you'd be missing is the microphone functionality of an original Famicom. But very few games ever used this anyway.

 

[Khaz]

But really, I'm open to any of these. If you were in my shoes with the set-up I've described, which path do you think you'd take?

As you're playing on a modern display, I'd say go for the solution that outputs HDMI instead of upscaling RGB. Either the the HI-Def NES mod or the AVS should be good for that.

 

[Rich!]

Yes, that's their "Packapunch" range. Good cables, but much more expensive. They have been offering them for a couple of years already.

Sorry but what on earth are you on about?

That's a photo I took of a standard £12 cable I bought from them, plugged into my SFC Jr. You....just owned yourself.

 

[Khaz]

Sorry but what on earth are you on about?

That's a photo I took of a standard £12 cable I bought from them, plugged into my SFC Jr. You....just owned yourself.

I went to check their webpage, thinking maybe they had changed their offering and would be "owned". But what you are describing (coax wires) isn't part of their £12 cable?

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...n64-rgb-av-scart-cable-ntsc-tv-lead-wire-cord

Level up with an RGB SCART! This cable supplies an RGB video signal and stereo sound from your NTSC Super Nintendo, Super Famicom or N64 (RGB modified only) which is far superior than the original video cable, plus with an RGB SCART there is no need for TV tuning, simply plug and play. This cable is screened to minimise interference , the SCART plug audio ground is connected to reduce the buzzing noise often experienced with some cables, and both ground pins 5 and 6 on the Multi AV connector are connected via separate wires to the SCART plug to also help reduce noise. It also benefits from internal capacitors connected in series with each RGB video line to remove any direct current (DC) signals, which may impede the true alternating current signal used in signal transmissions. This cable is wired for CSYNC also know as "composite sync" which takes the sync signal from pin 3 of the Multi-AV out, and the resulting picture is far superior than the regular "sync over composite video" (Multi-AV pin 9), which can suffer from sync issues. Therefore this special CSYNC cable gives the best solid image. Finally the SCART plug can be wired as either EuroSCART or JP21, the choice is yours! The JP21 option is subject to availability.

The Packapunch (£35), however, do:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...m-snes-n64-rgb-av-scart-cable-ntsc-gold-scart

This product is soon to be discontinued. However, you will soon be able to Packapunch all RGB SCART cables, including the Super Nintendo RGB SCART for a small upgrade fee. The new Packapunch option is made using a custom cable manufactured in the United Kingdom for Retro Gaming Cables ONLY and is not a hacked-up VGA cable! This is a super shielded cable uses individually shielded cores for all the signals, including the red, green, blue, sync, audio left, audio right and even the RGB select signals.