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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Depends on the receiver, honestly. Some of them insist on processing the image to add an overlay, which results in additional lag.
Fucking hated my old receiver.
They smear to prevent aliasing when scaling down. More than needed, maybe.
A good professor of mine once told me; "don't trust me, go verify by yourself".
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I can't imagine this is the case. SCART is the best overall for quality, and there are plenty of options for outputting from SCART to almost every input.
Agreed.
How are people taking pictures of their TV? My phone isn't doing a very good job.
Scart was never adopted here in an official capacity, so any usage are through enthusiasts. Still seems to be very prevalent through the enthusiast community.
Scart was never adopted here in an official capacity, so any usage are through enthusiasts. Still seems to be very prevalent through the enthusiast community.
sixteen-bit
Member
Does your phone camera app have manual features?
Not at all. All you're seeing are a few recent HD mods with HDMI connectors. The original hardware is still best with RGB Scart and that won't change. OSCC just came out, giving us more options to connect old consoles to new displays, and it has a Scart input.
If not a standalone camera, you need at least a good smartphone camera. Manual features are helpful but more important is that it's simply a quality camera that takes good shots. My Nexus 6P can take straight shots that are pretty good with no real adjustments. Better than with all the fiddling of controls in a camera app on my previous phone.
I wouldn't say moving away, but it is evolving. You already have RGB mods for essentially everything that couldn't handle it out of the box, and improvements for what didn't do a great job of it. The next frontier is to find ways to get digital output from the original hardware in a way that can be delivered via HDMI, which is both ubiquitous and more than suited to handle the task. You could say we're chasing convenience and extra features in addition to great image quality (e.g. HiDefNES).
I'm running a stock ROM on my Android right now which comes with a generic camera.
I'll look into the manual controls.
any kind of OSD or when it is being displayed?
my receiver has a thing that, when the OSD is called with the remote, it seems to switch to a different mode to display it with the screen darkened a bit. normally it doesn't display anything when i turn it on or change inputs since it has a LCD display on the device for that.
all the times i did lag tests were through the receiver and it never seemed to add extra lag as long as the OSD wasn't active.
still, i can't get a definitive answer for it due to no good database around. someone should create a site like displaylag for receivers
(is it that rare for people concerned with lag to have receivers?)
Beer Monkey
Member
I've been meaning to do captures of all possible outputs of the vWii on Wii U to help get a little more detail on what is going on, but I've been crazy busy.
That 240p doesn't integer scale to 480p on the Gamepad shows just how much Nintendo botched the Wii U as far as processing Wii video out. The design is bad. I don't even run Nintendon't on it any more. One can buy whole a box of OG Wiis pretty cheaply. The analog out isn't just clean, it's fast as heck! I can play NES Punch-Out!! on Wii into a CRT and do just as well as I can on a real Famicom played through the same CRT (my acid test is being able to TKO Soda Popinski in less than 2:30)! The NES emulator seems that it may be less than one frame slower than real hardware, though I haven't done any camera testing yet.
I know some poop on the color saturation of the Wii versus the Gamecube, but if you are using a CRT you can calibrate for that so it's no big shakes.
SOME-MIST
Member
nothing crazy and the picture isn't really all that clear, but over the weekend I busted out the ole XM29 that I nabbed a few years ago for $100 and beat donkey kong country. I used to use it for my supergun/PCBs but have since stored it after getting the candy cab.
unfortunately hooked up via component since I don't have an RGB setup for the SNES, but it was still a blast to play. only issue is that after awhile the monitor starting turning itself on/off, which means I'll probably have to open it up and clean the fans since the monitor regulates temperature and will turn itself off if it's too hot.
I'm gonna be moving again soon with the gf, so I'm hoping to have a room dedicated for the new astro city, nec xm29, sony bvm20f1u, and sony pvm14m2u. hopefully pics mid-sept!
unfortunately hooked up via component since I don't have an RGB setup for the SNES, but it was still a blast to play. only issue is that after awhile the monitor starting turning itself on/off, which means I'll probably have to open it up and clean the fans since the monitor regulates temperature and will turn itself off if it's too hot.
I'm gonna be moving again soon with the gf, so I'm hoping to have a room dedicated for the new astro city, nec xm29, sony bvm20f1u, and sony pvm14m2u. hopefully pics mid-sept!
I mainly asked because I watched the RetroRGB guy's (great) weekly show and he said he didn't notice the difference in video quality between a SNES via SCART and via the HD Retrovision cables on a BVM. That really had me questioning my SCART setup, since component requires fewer hurdles for most US TVs.
Beer Monkey
Member
The colorspace and resolution of SNES video should certainly be fine after passive conversion from RGB to component! Beware the anti-component sentiment spread by certain websites and YouTubers!
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I don't think it's necessarily fewer hurdles. You'll need the cable outputting the signal from the source, then to go from straight Yipper cables into the BVM, you'll need BNC adapters for them, right? That's a total of two components.
For SCART to BVM, you'll need the source cable, then a SCART-to-BNC adapter cable. Same amount of hurdles. Unless BVMs have inputs that take naked component cables?
It doesn't make a difference on a BVM, but I find that consumer-level TVs are still an essential part of any US retro gaming fan's setup because the screens can be a lot bigger. I use my 20" BVM a lot for older systems, but it's not that great for split-screen multiplayer games or large-scale 3D games. I think a component cable connector solution is ideal because it works for most modern US TVs, including BVMs.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
The problem with component is nothing before PS2 supports it. You can get cables with built in transcoders for SNES+Genesis, but if you plan on having a lot of systems it makes sense to just get an external transcoder.
Beer Monkey
Member
Exactly. All of these various hardware solutions have value, it depends on the collector and their setup.
If you want to run eight classic systems into a PVM you probably aren't going to want component. But component cables are a great solution for somebody that just wants to run a couple of classic systems into a SDTV. Sure, the cables are pricey, but you can get a 27" consumer CRT with component inputs for $0-$20 on Craigslist, no problem.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Got it, that makes much more sense to me. Got a twenty-something inch Toshiba CRT with component in, which I was using with SCART and that YUV transcoder do-hickey. Definitely looked nice, and playing on a bigger TV is great, especially with anything more than one player.
A lot more than needed! I would prefer the aliasing (with optional filtering) because the smear causes distorted edges.
I'm suddenly itching for a capture card and may stop by a local electronics store after work that I know has the USB3HDCAP. If there's something better out there, please let me know! Although I wouldn't bother if it costs a lot more than this device.
Here are my offscreen pics of Sparkster running on Android and Wii ports of SNES9X (helps to expand and view full size):
720p Android device with 1080p HDMI TV Out to plasma. Left to right:
1. Integer (Height) with scanlines (4:3, perfect scanlines)
2. Integer (1:1, pretty much flawless PQ)
3. Integer (Height) no scanlines (4:3, same as above PQ)
Wii U's vWii on plasma, set to both 480p and 720p. Left to right:
1. 480p with Scanlines (4:3? Ugly scanlines, smear/blur, dull colors)
2. 480p with 16:9 Correction and no Scanlines (1:1? Same as above, but more obvious without scanlines)
3. 720p, no Scanlines. (Improvement over 480p since it lacks the excess blur, but still worse than Android emulation)
I have this cheap Scart to HDMI upscaler that I bought off of Amazon while I wait for the OSCC vs Framemeister to shake out, and I just found out the HDMI input function is a simple passthrough and will not upscale a 240p/480p signal.
It's unfortunate as I wanted to run the GC HDMI mod with 480p GC signal and 240p gamecube signal through it.
It's unfortunate as I wanted to run the GC HDMI mod with 480p GC signal and 240p gamecube signal through it.
sixteen-bit
Member
how could adam koralik lie?
Trust me... you're better off without it.
Sorry meant to say when it's on.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Ok is it just me, but does anyone else wonder why that dude is popular on youtube?
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Good to know, I just ordered one of these. They actually seem to do a decent job of capturing footage. Fudoh gave it a positive review (considering what it is) and the gameplay from this video was captured from it.
In any case, I had WookieWin custom wire me up a BNC-to SCART cable so that I can record footage from the output of my PVM, that way I can still actually play without the lag.
Congrats dude, I can't wait to see your pics, it's nice to have another capture card user here!!!
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
To be fair, I chose 5-7 working days and it left Japan last Tuesday.
With my SFC Jr, it took until what would be tomorrow for it to update as being in the UK.
...but that wasn't £280
if you ordered from solaris, they take a longass time to ship things even if you choose fast shipping (apparently, "fast" only applies to transit. not to getting the package to their post office)
in other news, i got fucked up royally by my ISP so now i can't stream and ended with some free time that i'll burn by taking more screenshots from my GC and Wii vs vWii because i just don't have anything else to do and can't call to complain until the morning.
in other news, i got fucked up royally by my ISP so now i can't stream and ended with some free time that i'll burn by taking more screenshots from my GC and Wii vs vWii because i just don't have anything else to do and can't call to complain until the morning.
Hm, that's not what I experienced:
Out within a day is pretty good. It's the UK side that's letting me down as usual
And aliasing makes the kids go dizzy. Don't know what was the rational here.
Looks like "cost-effective" filter design. xD
This image is still scaled for some reason. Is it rendered at 720p internally?
Cool stuff! :+
Hm, that's not what I experienced:
Out within a day is pretty good. It's the UK side that's letting me down as usual
ah i see.
heh, i can't say i'm surprised. i sold 2 n3ds faceplates in ebay earlier in the year and the destination happened to be european countries and the things took so long to arrive that the buyers almost opened cases against me. i had to prove beyond any doubt that the packages were shipped and were on track to avoid problems.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I had the opposite experience with Solaris. Though I'm in the US I don't know if that changes things. I ordered my Framemeister from them on a Monday morning, and by Wednesday evening it was at my door.
Yeah it changes a few things...you are significantly closer in distance to Japan, and you don't have her majesty's revenue and customs holding onto everything for god knows how long
Shin Johnpv
Member
Her Royal Majesty is definitely opening up your framemeister and playing with it before sending it a long to you.
Sarcasm? A perfectly scaled, jaggy picture is the best because it gives the most flexibility of adding actual good scanline and CRT filters on top. Nintendo needs to stop adding dark, dull and ugly blur filters to its emulation (Wii U VC).
No way. vWii and its Homebrew apps are internally rendered at max 480p. The 720p, 1080i and 1080p settings on the Wii U side are only the display resolution that the internal render will be scaled to. Only on the Wii U side are UI, apps and games rendered at HD resolutions. I didn't include a picture of Sparkster at 1080p display res because like everything else in Vwii, it's somewhere in the middle: not as awful as 480p, not as good as 720p.
I couldn't get Wii U to display on my 1440p monitor with a HDMI to DVI cable (flashing colors). I did get it to show up on my 900p VGA LCD monitor using the HDMI to Analog converter. Same results as I got before on the plasma... uneven scanlines and blurry graphics.
I meant some possible moiré patterns.
480p max? Forget what I've said above.
It's trivial then. Ugliest upscaler ever, for no reason?
(seems they wanted to get rid of the jaggies and screwed it all up xD)
I bet she's playing my copy of sexy parodius with it too
Agreed, it was rather horrible. I order the Framemeister a few days later lol. The Upscaler mentioned is cheap and will get the job done, but it just looks horrible all around.
Sounds like the GC Video mod will launch by the end of the week from bad ass console.
Maybe I should send mine back to Amazon lol.
Maybe I should send mine back to Amazon lol.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I don't think the quality looks that bad. If you're using it to upscale to and HDMI display, I can imagine it's not great, but for the purpose of connecting it to a USB capture device, it seems to get the job done fine.
OSSCgaf, one question. Anyone tried to tweak the h/v border settings with Mega Drive games that come with colored overscan (Sonic, for instance)? I'm tring to find videos on YT that show some before-after improvements, but I can't find any. No biggie, I just wanted to compare it to the Mini's results.
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
Do it, it's for the best.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
My thingy showed up today and I think it does a pretty decent job. Was able to grab shots from CDX, SNES, Neo Geo and Saturn and they look dece to me.
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