Kawika
Member
I could be wrong but I don't think every sync monitor does it.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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I could be wrong but I don't think every sync monitor does it.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
My 1440p Gsync panel only has a display port and no internal scaler.
Get an adapter?
Edit: Fuck I missed half a post again. No internal scaler... how is this a thing?
Just a monitor built for a specific purpose. Adding in an upscaler and HDMI port would increase the cost, as the Gsync module is not compatible with HDMI and relies on the GPU to upscale.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
No idea if it's a TN vs. IPS difference, though I will note that the TN gsync I had was straight up junk. Whatever the original Asus one was. TN panels are the absolute worst, and it was so bad that on a bigger screen like that, you literally couldn't look at the screen and not have either the top or bottom of it be washed out. Also, no HDMI. I sent it back.
I can't remember the tech reason behind it, but every gysync monitor in the store did the same thing, that's how we were able to return the one we bought. Convinced them by replicating it there on the other gsync monitors, they initially were only going to accept the return minus a 30% restocking fee, ouch.
SOME-MIST
Member
I like it tbh. I'm gonna be moving into a 2br apt next month where the 2nd room is gonna be dedicated to the cab/retro setup and gf's art desk and I hope I can get it to look near what you have. for the time being it's gonna be bear bones with monitor stacked on monitor.
Shin Johnpv
Member
4K makes sense for feature film content, and other things. Plus 4k is a perfect 3x (in both dimensions) scale from 720p and a perfect 2x scale (again in both dimensions) from 1080p. Plus most 4K tv sets have better input lag than the 1080p sets. Video scalers being put in sets have only improved over the years and most 4K sets handle 480p content pretty well. 240p depends on the brand of tv, Samsung is one of the better supporters of it. Though to be fair 240p was never a real standard and was more of a hack that worked.
1440p is a baby half step. Sure it's 2x of 720p but its a 1.3x scale from 1080p.
(and by 4k I mean UHD 3840 x 2160 )
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Thanks man. I like my apartment to feel more lived in and personable than the "cleaner" setups I've seen around the game setup threads.
And 9x from 240p, which is great for us. Upscalers of the future will be able to output a super clean image out of 240p. With a 9x9 square (81 pixels) to make one pixel, you have plenty of space to make accuracy tweaks like subpixels, beam shape and halos. The granularity on he horizontal axis also means that we will get pixels reproduced at the correct aspect ratio! No more square pixels!
480 is the only resolution left out now, with non-integer 4.5x scale. Bring it on 8K displays! (or whatever is the double of 4K)
D.Lo
Member
480 can just be integer scaled with some small borders.
That's going to be a clean image.
Cross-posting from the AVS thread. For a little background, I'm trying to clarify why the AVS's max 720p output is a bit of a problem.
I tried it myself in Photoshop. Keep in mind the "AVS" examples are just theoretical until people actually get the console and see for themselves.
I downloaded a MMX sprite, confirming its the native size, and scaled it several different sizes with bilinear or nearest neighbor filtering.
Bilinear scaling from 240p does actually yield similar results to that blurry Mega Man, but this isn't accurate because the AVS is starting from a clear 720p output. So disregard the 3X Bilinear and 4X Bilinear images... they're more representative of what the 240p NESRGB would look like on a HDTV without the aid of XRGB or OSSC.
So starting from the clean 3x Nearest upscale representative of AVS at 720p, I rescaled it to the 1080p and 4K equivalents with bilinear filtering (common for the internal scalers in most displays). 1080p is subtly but still noticeably blurry. 4K is very blurry, though thankfully not as bad as I initially suspected. But it's important to remember that these are best case scenarios... Photoshop has excellent resizing capabilities whereas your TV's scaler may not.
I did receive the Hi-Def NES yesterday and did a quick comparison on my 1080p Panasonic plasma. Games in 720p scaled to 1080p are a little blurry, resembling the theoretical AVS 720p to1080p example in the picture above. Hi-Def NES at 1080p (4x integer scale) is pixel-perfect sharp... also like in the above pictured example.
The 4K upscaler image is a just-for-fun example of a future 4K-capable Framemeister or a 4K display with an excellent internal scaler.
I tried it myself in Photoshop. Keep in mind the "AVS" examples are just theoretical until people actually get the console and see for themselves.
I downloaded a MMX sprite, confirming its the native size, and scaled it several different sizes with bilinear or nearest neighbor filtering.
Bilinear scaling from 240p does actually yield similar results to that blurry Mega Man, but this isn't accurate because the AVS is starting from a clear 720p output. So disregard the 3X Bilinear and 4X Bilinear images... they're more representative of what the 240p NESRGB would look like on a HDTV without the aid of XRGB or OSSC.
So starting from the clean 3x Nearest upscale representative of AVS at 720p, I rescaled it to the 1080p and 4K equivalents with bilinear filtering (common for the internal scalers in most displays). 1080p is subtly but still noticeably blurry. 4K is very blurry, though thankfully not as bad as I initially suspected. But it's important to remember that these are best case scenarios... Photoshop has excellent resizing capabilities whereas your TV's scaler may not.
I did receive the Hi-Def NES yesterday and did a quick comparison on my 1080p Panasonic plasma. Games in 720p scaled to 1080p are a little blurry, resembling the theoretical AVS 720p to1080p example in the picture above. Hi-Def NES at 1080p (4x integer scale) is pixel-perfect sharp... also like in the above pictured example.
The 4K upscaler image is a just-for-fun example of a future 4K-capable Framemeister or a 4K display with an excellent internal scaler.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
OSSC can't get its line-4x and line-5x modes soon enough. Show them 4K overlords wassup.
YesManKablam
Member
I picked up a Wii today and I have a RGB cable for it ordered. I installed Homebrew and Retroarch which was suggested here.
Kinda bumping into an issue with it however. I posted about it in the retroarch thread here. Thought I'd crosspost as people here are familiar with retroarch on the Wii.
EDIT: I got it to work by using a older build.
So now that it works, does anyone know what the correct video settings I should use for 240p content?
Kinda bumping into an issue with it however. I posted about it in the retroarch thread here. Thought I'd crosspost as people here are familiar with retroarch on the Wii.
EDIT: I got it to work by using a older build.
So now that it works, does anyone know what the correct video settings I should use for 240p content?
Could you recommend a good monitor, to be used basically as an OSSC display (and maybe for some occasional PS3/360 gaming too), that ain't an 800 euros beast, like the newest 4K Asus models? I mean, does it make any sense to buy something cheaper for that purpose? I was wondering if something that is line-triple-ready, can be pivoted, and doesn't add any (or very little) lag, would be solid enough.
NormalFish
Banned
Might browse through shmups and the vgp forums to look at what displays are working for people. In theory, a 480p display is probably the best but that's not readily available these days. Most computer monitors should be pretty decent with the ossc, really.
Wouldn't it need 9x to achieve 4K resolutions? 4-5x would be around 1080p resolutions.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I just mean higher multiples for the line double mode. 4-5x is in the works now, but presumably, it'd expand past that.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
who are you?
Beer Monkey
Member
I can't imagine buying a set based on that single criteria, it's a major purchase.
Scaling should be done prior to the TV. That's the bottom line. Then the set you use it with doesn't matter.
There will be so much cool hardware released over the next two or three years. 4K OSSCs and the like are inevitable.
I'm the thread perpetual noob. I come in here every 2 weeks asking "Guise, how do i maek scanlines? Is the Adam Koralik scaler the best... thing?"
Remember?
Edit: Did I miss any high level nerd conversations in the last couple weeks? Please do let me know guys. I cant sleep well thinking that i might have missed anything super cool in this thread.
I'm the thread perpetual noob. I come in here every 2 weeks asking "Guise, how do i maek scanlines? Is the Adam Koralik scaler the best... thing?"
Remember?
Edit: Did I miss any high level nerd conversations in the last couple weeks? Please do let me know guys. I cant sleep well thinking that i might have missed anything super cool in this thread.
I ain't never seen you before...
/Scruffy
YesManKablam
Member
Well, I got shipped a Wii component cable instead of a RGB one. yay
Shin Johnpv
Member
Edit: Did I miss any high level nerd conversations in the last couple weeks? Please do let me know guys. I cant sleep well thinking that i might have missed anything super cool in this thread.
Adam Koralik is now seen as the definitive voice in this thread. Figure it out.
That would be very terrible if it were true.
I'll do that too, thanks for the suggestion.
This sounds like solid advice for 240p. But so far I haven't seen any good external scalers that handle 480p as well as an HDTV.
No smartphone?! I think like 80% of my time here is through my phone!
Far as TVs go, that's not going to happen. Live broadcasts, movies and shows look better with a soft upscale. General public would 0/10 a TV giving their favorite content a pixelated look, which makes sense. I used to think nearest neighbor was useless and complete shit but that's because I was playing around with photos.
geniusbits
Member
Aren't they the same? Red, green and blue colored wires right? ;P
Nah, I had to downgrade to a dumbphone for the time being. My iphone wont be back up 'till my next pay day. I'd just put it all on a credit card, but I ran into issues with my old one that I'd like to resolve before opening up a new card.
YesManKablam
Member
That's honestly what I think happened here.
What makes it worse is the component cables from this place are twice the price of the RGB cables.
NormalFish
Banned
Marqs said:
.Marqs said:
DarkConfidant
Member
Hey smart RGB-savy folks:
Is there any good place to get a simple Component to SCART adapter, like the one found in the bottom of this page: http://retrorgb.com/wiirgbvscomponent.html
I want to use it to get an NTSC Wii to work on a PVM. I already have a SCART to BNC adapter, and other SCART consoles hooked up.
Ive checked amazon and ebay and cant find anything.
Is there any good place to get a simple Component to SCART adapter, like the one found in the bottom of this page: http://retrorgb.com/wiirgbvscomponent.html
I want to use it to get an NTSC Wii to work on a PVM. I already have a SCART to BNC adapter, and other SCART consoles hooked up.
Ive checked amazon and ebay and cant find anything.
Do we have an OT for the OSSC? Something to guide the newbies to set it up and better understand its functionalities?
NormalFish
Banned
no, especially given newbies should not be buying an OSSC right now.
I thought it was especially newb-friendly, as Chacranajxy reported many times about how well it worked, even with no tinkering, just out of the box.
geniusbits
Member
Well it does give twice the resolution lulz.
NormalFish
Banned
His display is evidently very compatible. This is not going to be the case for everyone.
Regardless, the OSSC is actively in development and has a large waiting list. It's just not a device many newbies should be looking at right now.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
And I will reiterate: THE OSSC IS THE MOST NEWBIE-FRIENDLY THING OF THIS SORT.
At least, it has been on both of the displays I've tested it on. I haven't dicked around with the settings since the week I got it, and even then, it was only the requisite tinkering one does with a fancy new piece of kit. It just works, and that's rare with this sort of stuff..
IrishNinja
Member
so ya'll want an OT for every big upscaler, then?
also, i appreciate newb-friendly, but again, once you get the XRGB's firmware updated (which can revert it to english for you too), i think there's a scanline button and you're good. the tweaking is an option - and again, profiles are great - but ya'll really shouldn't make the min out to be a difficult thing to work with. it's not, or i'd have issues when i drink.
and i drink constantly
also, i appreciate newb-friendly, but again, once you get the XRGB's firmware updated (which can revert it to english for you too), i think there's a scanline button and you're good. the tweaking is an option - and again, profiles are great - but ya'll really shouldn't make the min out to be a difficult thing to work with. it's not, or i'd have issues when i drink.
and i drink constantly
Just got my Shinybow SB-5525 in the mail today. Who knew how excited one could get over a SCART switch, but this thing has me HYPED!
The dual SCART output on this thing was the real selling point for me. I've decided that once I get my OSSC, I'll have one output running to that for my main display, and the other output to my scaler chain to a DVR for streaming/recording.
Now the only thing I need for my setup is a good power strip so I don't have to keep unplugging those damned power boxes, and a better set of 2.1 speakers.
The dual SCART output on this thing was the real selling point for me. I've decided that once I get my OSSC, I'll have one output running to that for my main display, and the other output to my scaler chain to a DVR for streaming/recording.
Now the only thing I need for my setup is a good power strip so I don't have to keep unplugging those damned power boxes, and a better set of 2.1 speakers.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
OSSC doesn't do real deinterlacing. It just throws away half the information.
And the FM can do VGA over the SCART mini-din. Just buy a VGA to SCART cable. If you had the skill you could even make your VGA to mini-din cable, complete with the small circuit for HSYNC/VSYNC to CSYNC
Edit: The OSSC does simple bob deinterlacing which isn't "throwing away half the information" as I said above but treating each interlaced frame as a full 240p field, ignoring the offsetting. It looks terrible in practice.
NormalFish
Banned
is there a reason not to deinterlace with software in post? unless you're streaming, that should give you better quality anyway.
Actually, since it moves the fields somewhat closer together, it looks notably better than other bob deinterlacing I've seen. Not like the mini, but not total garbage.
I need dat 60FPS yo!!!
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