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[Danny Dudekisser]

Yeah. I wonder if there's a niche for a minimalist, high-end, no-nonsense (smart-featureless) TV targeted toward gamers. Maybe not, but I know I'd pay a premium for one.

I'm looking at getting a gsync computer monitor for my old-school gaming setup for that exact reason. Those are the only displays that are really purpose built for gaming... not necessarily old-school stuff, but if you want low input-lag and no bullshit, they're basically the best choice by a mile. Just wish they'd apply that kind of mentality to a larger screen.

 

[Lynd7]

I'm looking at getting a gsync computer monitor for my old-school gaming setup for that exact reason. Those are the only displays that are really purpose built for gaming... not necessarily old-school stuff, but if you want low input-lag and no bullshit, they're basically the best choice by a mile. Just wish they'd apply that kind of mentality to a larger screen.

Would such a monitor offer much advantages for retro stuff over other displays though? I guess lag is really low?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Would such a monitor offer much advantages for retro stuff over other displays though? I guess lag is really low?

For me, there are three things:

1) Low lag, and the least amount of ghosting
2) Easily rotate-able for TATE shmupping.
3) More compatible than normal consumer TVs. OSSC's line triple mode, for instance, ain't nothing but a thang.

After I hooked my Saturn up to my current g-sync monitor, I was a believer.

 

[Lynd7]

For me, there are three things:

1) Low lag, and the least amount of ghosting
2) Easily rotate-able for TATE shmupping.
3) More compatible than normal consumer TVs. OSSC's line triple mode, for instance, ain't nothing but a thang.

After I hooked my Saturn up to my current g-sync monitor, I was a believer.

Low lag and ghosting/blurring is something I want for things like the AVS and some other retro consoles, so I may look into this as an option at some point too. Whats the best brands?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Low lag and ghosting/blurring is something I want for things like the AVS and some other retro consoles, so I may look into this as an option at some point too. Whats the best brands?

I've got an Asus g-sync right now, which I would highly recommend (PG279Q). Acer also makes good g-sync monitors, I'm told. I'm looking at buying the 32" g-sync monitor they have for this retro setup. I think Dell has a g-sync option now, too, but I have no idea how good it is.

 

[harz-marz]

What is the best way for me to connect my Dreamcast to my HDTV. Is there some way via HDMI?

I have an amp with the usual inputs.

 

[Galdelico]

I've got an Asus g-sync right now, which I would highly recommend (PG279Q). Acer also makes good g-sync monitors, I'm told. I'm looking at buying the 32" g-sync monitor they have for this retro setup. I think Dell has a g-sync option now, too, but I have no idea how good it is.

Is the notorious IPS bloom (or whatever is called that white-ish bleeding all around the panel's edges) a noticeable issue, when such monitors are used for retrogaming, as in your case? I wonder if having a considerable amount of black screen could potentially make things a bit distracting.

Would you recommend something like a good quality HDTV (from the pre-4K era), or even a good HD-ready one, as a retrogame display to use with the OSSC?

 

[storafötter]

Where can someone find legit cables that wont blow up the machine for retro gaming?

Looking for PAL snes power adapter. Also wondering what are the best converters if I decide to buy a Famicom or Japanese consoles.

 

[BTails]

Alright, I'm finally sick of swapping SCART cables. I have 5 inputs, so the Bandridge selector seems like it'll be perfect. Anything I should know before ordering it? I read a little bit about some traces having to be cut on the board for certain inputs. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Alright, I'm finally sick of swapping SCART cables. I have 5 inputs, so the Bandridge selector seems like it'll be perfect. Anything I should know before ordering it? I read a little bit about some traces having to be cut on the board for certain inputs. Does anyone know anything about this?

This issue is quite rare. More info here.

MLiG - Framemeister alternatives

More shit scaler hating!

 

[Khaz]

This issue is quite rare. More info here.

Quite an exotic problem indeed. Probably not exclusive to the Bandridge either. Maybe avoided with the powered automatic switch?

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Quite an exotic problem indeed. Probably not exclusive to the Bandridge either. Maybe avoided with the powered automatic switch?

I've heard more issues with the manual switch with regards to quality. I think Peltz has problems with his.

For what it's worth, I'm using the auto switch Bandridge and a SB-3715 to out put to multiple devices simultaneously and have no signal issues at all.

 

[Mega]

That's possibly not applicable using a scaler though?

The scaling will be done by the screen on an already processed HD image. If using a framemeister the TV will only filter the 1080p output, it won't go 'inside' the 1080p resolution, and most it could only slightly soften the pixel edges.

Even from 720, it's only a 3X scale to UHD.

I'm not following your meaning. Anything fed to the 4K display below native res will be upscaled with a blurry filter technique. The bilinear filtering affects all of the picture, not just edges (you can see that in the examples posted). Nothing will avoid it except using a 4K-capable external scaler or a display with a good internal scaler with nearest neighbor scaling... possibly even a capture card to bypass internal scaling.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Is the notorious IPS bloom (or whatever is called that white-ish bleeding all around the panel's edges) a noticeable issue, when such monitors are used for retrogaming, as in your case? I wonder if having a considerable amount of black screen could potentially make things a bit distracting.

Would you recommend something like a good quality HDTV (from the pre-4K era), or even a good HD-ready one, as a retrogame display to use with the OSSC?

Well, keep in mind that I've been doing all my OSSC use on my Sony HDTV from 2014 and had absolutely no problems with it. I can't rotate the screen for shmups, and line triple mode doesn't work on it, but input lag is definitely not a problem. So yeah, there's nothing wrong with using an HDTV... 4k seems iffy because those panels are laggy as shit.

As for IPS issues... there were some QC issues early on with a lot of gsync monitors that have since been corrected. I haven't had any issues with my monitor.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

I just realized that this generation of consoles will almost certainly be the last to support analog output. The Wii U in particular is likely to be the last console to do so; I can't imagine NX would support it. Xbox One and PS4 already have done away with analog outputs.

 

[Timu]

More shit scaler hating!

They're spot on about it as I used to have one and had the same problems so I took it back!

 

[BTails]

Hmmm, with all the issues with Bandridges that I've been reading, plus the fact that they're quite expensive now, I think I'll daisy chan two Hama switches instead. Not the most elegant solution, but I haven't read a single bad review of the 3-way Hama selector.

Now I'll need a couple Male/Male SCART cables. Any suggestions for someone needing international shipping? I'm thinking of buying a couple from this Amazon seller. They have a lot of good reviews, plus it says they're shielded, which would be my biggest concern.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001TKDOR6/

 

[YesManKablam]

RGB SCART setup on my PS1 and I tweaked the display trough the service menu to when I'm mostly happy with it. Decided to do some comparison shots between the standard composite and the RGB cables. The game is Persona 2 Innocent Sin.

Composite

RGB

Composite

RGB

 

[Khaz]

MLiG - Framemeister alternatives

That's a cool video, though quite technical. The world of scalers is foreign to me so a lot of it was over my head, but they did a good job in explaining still.

Glad they used the correct definition of scan lines too

 

[Khaz]

Now I'll need a couple Male/Male SCART cables. Any suggestions for someone needing international shipping? I'm thinking of buying a couple from this Amazon seller. They have a lot of good reviews, plus it says they're shielded, which would be my biggest concern.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001TKDOR6/

For short distances, I'd advise for a ribbon cable, like this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003PU39D2/

Incidentally, I've dealt with kenable several times on ebay and I've always been satisfied by the service, they are a serious shop. Often cheaper than the competition, and very fast shipping for Europeans. I believe they ship worldwide.

 

[BTails]

For short distances, I'd advise for a ribbon cable, like this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003PU39D2/

Incidentally, I've dealt with kenable several times on ebay and I've always been satisfied by the service, they are a serious shop. Often cheaper than the competition, and very fast shipping for Europeans. I believe they ship worldwide.

Thanks Khaz! I ordered a couple of cables: a flat 0.5m cable to connect the two Hama switches, though I had to get a round cable for the switch to upscaler, as they didn't have a flat 2m cable available on their site, and I plan on hiding the switches in a cabinet a bit further away from the Framemeister.

I did order the highest quality round one though, so I'm not too worried!

Also ordered two Hama switches, looking forward to finally being able to stop manually plugging/unplugging all my consoles!

 

[NormalFish]

new MLIG video is well put together. Hope the OSSC keeps seeing press. Sooner marqs releases his documentation and people go hard with it, the better.

 

[Khaz]

Thanks Khaz! I ordered a couple of cables: a flat 0.5m cable to connect the two Hama switches, though I had to get a round cable for the switch to upscaler, as they didn't have a flat 2m cable available on their site, and I plan on hiding the switches in a cabinet a bit further away from the Framemeister.

Yes, ribbon is good to keep from crosstalk over short distances, but the longer it gets the more likely it is to catch external interferences.
You want the thickest round cable too. Cheap cables aren't usually good: they get a picture on screen but crosstalk and interferences can be a nightmare if you're sensitive to buzz and snow.

 

[Timu]

new MLIG video is well put together. Hope the OSSC keeps seeing press. Sooner marqs releases his documentation and people go hard with it, the better.

I hope the OSSC comes available to amazon one day like the XRGB Mini.

 

[NormalFish]

I hope the OSSC comes available to amazon one day like the XRGB Mini.

Don't see why not, if someone can work out a good manufacturing deal so that availability isn't such an issue.

I'm not sure Marqs has discussed what sort of license he intends to put it under, but it's already kind of an odd case since he's refusing to release documentation as of yet, despite the name.

 

[Morfeo]

Half a year later I am finally ready to use my framemeister. Does anyone know any good websites that test out settings for PAL consoles? (SNES, PS2, Wii) Saves me time from tinkering like a madman.

Ive had some troubles getting scanlines to work properly on my Framemeister when Im using pal-consoles, so I would also be up for this!

 

[Einhandr]

Don't see why not, if someone can work out a good manufacturing deal so that availability isn't such an issue.

I'm not sure Marqs has discussed what sort of license he intends to put it under, but it's already kind of an odd case since he's refusing to release documentation as of yet, despite the name.

I always thought the name came from the fact that it was using a FPGA instead of a proprietary image processor. So the nature of programming for it is more "open source".

 

[NormalFish]

I always thought the name came from the fact that it was using a FPGA instead of a proprietary image processor. So the nature of programming for it is more "open source".

No, I'm fairly sure it's intended to be fully documented with an open license. But as I said before, given it's not currently open source, I'm not sure if that's still the plan.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I always thought the name came from the fact that it was using a FPGA instead of a proprietary image processor. So the nature of programming for it is more "open source".

I cracked open the FM and it has an FPGA as well.

Edit: oh but it's also using another chip for image processing. I misread this.

 

[Khaz]

No, I'm fairly sure it's intended to be fully documented with an open license. But as I said before, given it's not currently open source, I'm not sure if that's still the plan.

Plenty of people start with ideals but reconsider when they see the money flowing in.

I'd say he will release his code and design after he has fulfilled most of the initial demand and/or set up an efficient supply chain. So that he is not pushed to irrelevancy by Chinese as soon as he releases his code.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

They're spot on about it as I used to have one and had the same problems so I took it back!

For 30 bucks, it's by far the most cost effective option for capturing footage.

 

[NormalFish]

Plenty of people start with ideals but reconsider when they see the money flowing in.

I'd say he will release his code and design after he has fulfilled most of the initial demand and/or set up an efficient supply chain. So that he is not pushed to irrelevancy by Chinese as soon as he releases his code.

I think that's the most likely course of action as well.

 

[Huggers]

new MLIG video is well put together. Hope the OSSC keeps seeing press. Sooner marqs releases his documentation and people go hard with it, the better.

Yeah I just watched this. I'm very drawn to the no lag and cheaper price. I'm usually a strictly CRT guy but for 150 quid I could be tempted by this, as long as he sorts the issues it's having with the SNES on some tvs

 

[NormalFish]

Yeah I just watched this. I'm very drawn to the no lag and cheaper price. I'm usually a strictly CRT guy but for 150 quid I could be tempted by this, as long as he sorts the issues it's having with the SNES on some tvs

Like they discuss in the video, "sorting" problems like with the SNES is largely impossible with this design. it needs a framebuffer or something to make the signal more standardized. Unless someone works a miracle, it won't come with a software update.

 

[Huggers]

Like they discuss in the video, "sorting" problems like with the SNES is largely impossible with this design. it needs a framebuffer or something to make the signal more standardized. Unless someone works a miracle, it won't come with a software update.

Perhaps in a second iteration I guess

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Dropped in at a thrift store yesterday at pickings were pretty slim. Lots of sub-13" TVs and the handful of sets they had bigger than that were super-old and in generally in poor shape There was a nice Sony Trinitron but the casing had some chunks missing.

There's another store in the area that I didn't get a chance to check out but last time I was in there they had stacks upon stacks of TVs...enough so that it was difficult to get an idea of what they had because you couldn't see the backs easily.

I'm not quite ready to pick up a big set but if something jumped out at me for a decent price I'd probably stash it away for the future.

Generally it's better to go for newer sets I assume? Or should I stick to "of the era" late 80s and early 90s sets?

 

[Khaz]

Generally it's better to go for newer sets I assume? Or should I stick to "of the era" late 80s and early 90s sets?

With Component, but without EDTV / HDTV is what you're looking for (US)
relevant

 

[Timu]

For 30 bucks, it's by far the most cost effective option for capturing footage.

GBS 8200 is cheaper(under 20 bucks), though you need a Sync Strike so yeah I see what you mean.

 

[Conezays]

While I've been playing my Dreamcast on my PVM lately I decided to try out the cheap upscaler I got with the order awhile back on my HDTV.

Yikes. While the image quality and lag were not the greatest, the bigger issue was the image/sound cutting out entirely about once every 30 seconds to 1 minute. Not sure why this occurred but the experience definitely pushed me back into the arms of my PVM (And yes, I know I should get something like a Framemeister if I wanted to play retro stuff on my HDTV on a regular basis).

 

[speedlolita]

GBS 8200 is cheaper(under 20 bucks), though you need a Sync Strike so yeah I see what you mean.

Or retrofit an LM1881 which costs next to nothing...

 

[Timu]

Or retrofit an LM1881 which costs next to nothing...

Oh wow, that's cool!

 

[Galdelico]

Guys, is anyone using/can give me a feeback on this monitor? Sony KX20PS1.
Are they any good for gaming, or is it another prehistoric pre-PVM model? Thanks. ^_-

 

[Einhandr]

I was curious to see how my PlayStation TV would run through my setup, and I was pretty pleased with the results. My apologies for the crap photo quality. I have the PSTV setup to output at 480p.

 

[Peltz]

I was curious to see how my PlayStation TV would run through my setup, and I was pretty pleased with the results. My apologies for the crap photo quality. I have the PSTV setup to output at 480p.

Sorry, but this looks really bad to me. Like... it's a total mess with the way the sprites are drawn on the TV's pixels so haphazardly.

 

[Einhandr]

Sorry, but this looks really bad to me. Like... it's a total mess with the way the sprites are drawn on the TV's pixels so haphazardly.

It was just a quick test. One thing I was having issues with was adjusting the display area within the PSTV itself. Also for some reason my scaler was displaying the PSTV menus in 4:3 ratio when it was set to widescreen and vice versa. I'll have to mess with the settings more later to see if I can improve things.

 

[JoeFenix]

Hey everyone!

I recently purchased a XRGB-Mini and have been really pleased with the results I'm getting out of it so far. I own a 27inch Trinitron and with scanlines the Framemeister can create an image that feels pretty close to a CRT which is amazing. I do have one fairly serious issue however.

Input delay.

When playing games that demand a high degree of precision such as shmups or fighting games the extra 20ms or so of delay from the framemeister is a killer to someone used to playing these games on a CRT. I like to stream and capture footage so the framemeister was mostly purchased with this in mind, so now I guess I should start looking into component and s-video splitters for when I want to play more demanding games. I sadly won't be able to use RGB cables with the CRT but for streaming purposes it should be good enough.

Now my question is this, I'm looking for a component and s-video splitter (2 devices is fine but obviously something that can do both would be great) and the options I've seen have mixed reviews with complaints of noise, sound drops or picture noise. Any recommendations for quality devices that could fit the bill? Is anybody else in the same boat when it comes to the framemeister?

Thanks and just need to say great thread! Sorry if it's been mentioned somewhere but I glanced through the OP and didn't see anything that would help.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

With Component, but without EDTV / HDTV is what you're looking for (US)
relevant

That's what I figured. I'm gonna try to make time to drop by the Thrift Store I pictured to poke around their selection a bit.

 

[Peltz]

Hey everyone!

I recently purchased a XRGB-Mini and have been really pleased with the results I'm getting out of it so far. I own a 27inch Trinitron and with scanlines the Framemeister can create an image that feels pretty close to a CRT which is amazing. I do have one fairly serious issue however.

Input delay.

When playing games that demand a high degree of precision such as shmups or fighting games the extra 20ms or so of delay from the framemeister is a killer to someone used to playing these games on a CRT. I like to stream and capture footage so the framemeister was mostly purchased with this in mind, so now I guess I should start looking into component and s-video splitters for when I want to play more demanding games. I sadly won't be able to use RGB cables with the CRT but for streaming purposes it should be good enough.

Now my question is this, I'm looking for a component and s-video splitter (2 devices is fine but obviously something that can do both would be great) and the options I've seen have mixed reviews with complaints of noise, sound drops or picture noise. Any recommendations for quality devices that could fit the bill? Is anybody else in the same boat when it comes to the framemeister?

Thanks and just need to say great thread! Sorry if it's been mentioned somewhere but I glanced through the OP and didn't see anything that would help.

It's pretty amazing how 20ms can really make that much of a difference for some people. I can definitely feel a difference, but it's far from unplayable.

Chances are, you're feeling 20ms stacked on top of an HDTV that also has input lag.

Spoiler

Sixfortyfive's footsteps:

 

[JoeFenix]

It's pretty amazing how 20ms can really make that much of a difference for some people. I can definitely feel a difference, but it's far from unplayable.

Chances are, you're feeling 20ms stacked on top of an HDTV that also has input lag.

Just to be clear, it is FAR from unplayable, with a little bit of getting used to I could adapt but it doesn't FEEL as good that's for certain.

My test games are Gradius V and Contra: Shattered Soldier. I have the framemeister paired up with a Asus VG248QE which by itself feels damn near identical to a CRT in terms of responsiveness during both of those games. You can tell the difference instantly in Contra with the framemeister hooked up. It's one of those things where I'm used to the way these games feel and this is definitely not as crisp.

 

[NormalFish]

I notice it in interlaced shmups. elsewise I don't.