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[NormalFish]

I need dat 60FPS yo!!!

shouldn't you be able to do bob deinterlacing or whatever else with software? Since you're not worried about doing it fast, you should be able to get whatever sort of deinterlacing you want, I should think.

To be honest, though, I've never really looked in to such software.

 

[Timu]

shouldn't you be able to do bob deinterlacing or whatever else with software? Since you're not worried about doing it fast, you should be able to get whatever sort of deinterlacing you want, I should think.

To be honest, though, I've never really looked in to such software.

I can but I don't get 60FPS. My capture cards refuse to do 60FPS for interlacing, only 30FPS. That's why I have a upscaler to do both deinterlacing and 60FPS for interlaced content. My capture cards hate interlacing and so do I, it needs deinterlacing for a progressive signal. And it's also why I don't like to record most PS2 games!

 

[NormalFish]

I can but I don't get 60FPS. My capture cards refuse to do 60FPS for interlacing, only 30FPS. That's why I have a upscaler to do both deinterlacing and 60FPS for interlaced content. And it's also why I don't like to record most PS2 games!

oh, huh. The capture card just won't take 60fps 480i? wonder if mine can do that.

Both won't(Avermedia and Startech). Also I wonders what yours is.

IIRC, we have the same avermedia card so looks like mine cannot.

 

[Timu]

oh, huh. The capture card just won't take 60fps 480i? wonder if mine can do that.

Both won't(Avermedia and Startech). Also I wonders what yours is.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

is there a reason not to deinterlace with software in post? unless you're streaming, that should give you better quality anyway.

Actually, since it moves the fields somewhat closer together, it looks notably better than other bob deinterlacing I've seen. Not like the mini, but not total garbage.

I mean, I thought it looked fine when I tried it. Better than most implementations I've seen.

 

[televator]

Framemeister will have the upper hand easily with 480i processing. We're talking line doubled 240 line fields per frame Vs. full 480 motion compensated frames. Simply put, youll get more detail out of the FM. The wild card is the OSSC's 480i passthrough. You can theoretically feed the 480i signal from the OSSC to another device that handles it as well as the FM... or actually use an FM. lol

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Framemeister will have the upper hand easily with 480i processing. We're talking line doubled 240 line fields per frame Vs. full 480 motion compensated frames. Simply put, youll get more detail out of the FM. The wild card is the OSSC's 480i passthrough. You can theoretically feed the 480i signal from the OSSC to another device that handles it as well as the FM... or actually use an FM. lol

I mean, maybe. But I like not having the lag.

I dunno how much of a picture quality difference it makes, though. Like, I haven't seen a good example of why deinterlacing is that much better.

 

[Timu]

Framemeister will have the upper hand easily with 480i processing. We're talking line doubled 240 line fields per frame Vs. full 480 motion compensated frames. Simply put, youll get more detail out of the FM.

One of my main reasons to get that. I blame PS2 mostly for that.

 

[angelic]

Please...can someone just tell me this. Will the framemeister put scanlines on a 720p or above input via HDMI. I cannot get it to put scanlines on my ps4 at anything above 480p.

Please..someone must know..

 

[dark10x]

Please...can someone just tell me this. Will the framemeister put scanlines on a 720p or above input via HDMI. I cannot get it to put scanlines on my ps4 at anything above 480p.

Please..someone must know..

No, you cannot put scanlines on HD resolutions. I assume you're trying to play a retro game on a PS4? That's really not going to work well here. You'll have to find a stand-alone scan-line generator that works with HDMI.

 

[angelic]

No, you cannot put scanlines on HD resolutions. I assume you're trying to play a retro game on a PS4? That's really not going to work well here. You'll have to find a stand-alone scan-line generator that works with HDMI.

Well at least I know now..thank you for answering. I read on another forum somone saying you can do it on 720p component from a 360, maybe it only works on analogue?

 

[angelic]

Oh and yes for retro but also Doom 4 looks like Metroid in 480p with scanlines.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I mean, maybe. But I like not having the lag.

I dunno how much of a picture quality difference it makes, though. Like, I haven't seen a good example of why deinterlacing is that much better.

This is the classic explanation. A bit long though, I think there are some decent examples on youtube if you go looking.

Good deinterlacing takes you from "bruh I hate interlaced content, PS2 is sucky" to "the fuck was I even complaining about?" Like I can barely tell when games are interlaced over the FM, you have to really know what to look for or go into the menu and check. Seriously, it has the same effect that good scalers have on 240p content, just making the games enjoyable again... no more distracting rat teeth, no more blurry mess in motion, no more flicker, no fiddling with GSModeSelector or bootsy emulators, just pop in the disc and enjoy.

If your TV handles interlaced content well I can see the passthrough on the OSSC being a good option. I don't know what your playing but I can't think of a single 480i-only game I own where it isn't worth the added latency.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I mean, maybe. But I like not having the lag.

I dunno how much of a picture quality difference it makes, though. Like, I haven't seen a good example of why deinterlacing is that much better.

It's early morning and I'm not fully awake so I might be remembering/processing shit wrong. That said I believe bob deinterlacing can cause flickering, or shimmering if you will. It was enough that it was noticeable during MLiG's stream with the OSSC last weekend. Granted how noticeable it is will probably depend on individual person, the game, the tv its being played on etc.

 

[Khaz]

This is the classic explaination. A bit long tbough, I think there are some decent examples on youtube if you go looking.

Not quite related to what you guys are talking about, but I'm not sure I like how interlacing is explained here. It's like he's saying that both fields are recorded with a 1/50 time shift, then merged in a single image, which is then displayed at 25Hz. He doesn't make it clear that the fields are supposed to be displayed one after another, and that the odd lines wouldn't appear as they would be seen at their correct time stamp.

Specifically this part

Why the heck?

Because it's 1930s technology.

The main reason for this: Movies with 25 non-interlaced (=progressive) frames per second don't look very fluid. If you watched a football game with 25 progressive fps it would look as if the ball isn't flying fluidly thru the air. With 50 fields per second which are then combined to 25 frames per second this looks much better. So why not record 50 images per second? Because so far there wasn't a technology available that could record so fast or display so fast (= camcorders recording to slowly and TV sets displaying too slowly).

Is incorrect. The reason for interlacing is to get a (fake) higher picture definition of 480 lines over two fields. TV could have just as much displayed 50 progressive frames, but the resulting 240 lines definition isn't very good for live broadcast. The problem isn't not being able to record or display fast enough (they do, at 50 fields per second), but rather how much you can record or display on a single frame/field.

The interlacing artefacts only appear when the two fields merged together on a single frame, therefore time-displacing one of them.

[edit] and I mixed up PAL frame rate with NTSC resolution. You know what I meant.

 

[soxinthebox]

Oh and yes for retro but also Doom 4 looks like Metroid in 480p with scanlines.

But why

 

[sliceypete]

Looking for some advice guys, i've read a bunch about upscalers but im still confused on which one would best fit my setup.

I just bought the Epson EH-TW5300 projector and I am not sure what upscaler I should buy. (input lag is around 28-30ms)

I looked in the manual to find supported resolutions and the lowest res it supports is 640x480 via VGA (the manual called it analog RGB)

the systems i want to hookup are a pal snes, modded pal playstation one, NTSC n64, and pal dreamcast.

I don't mind spending the money and getting a framemeister, but i've heard it introduces some lag.

anyone here have the SLG in a box? can it output to 1080p? does it add any lag to my setup?

i really wanted to get a OCCS but the wait time and no audio out option kills it for me.

 

[angelic]

But why

Why not?

I was trying to get scanlines for things like axiom verge, fez, etc and I thought why not. It looks surprisingly good, downsampled Doom 4 with scanlines..sexy.

 

[Mega]

HD games shouldn't have scanlines. That falls into the realm of irrational fetishization where you're removing picture information for a "retro" feel. You could make the case for low-res sprite-based modern games but results vary. I've done that before with some Steam games.

 

[angelic]

HD games shouldn't have scanlines. That falls into the realm of irrational fetishization where you're removing picture information for a "retro" feel. You could make the case for low-res sprite-based modern games but results vary. I've done that before with some Steam games.

experimentation is fun

 

[sixteen-bit]

HD games shouldn't have scanlines. That falls into the realm of irrational fetishization where you're removing picture information for a "retro" feel. You could make the case for low-res sprite-based modern games but results vary. I've done that before with some Steam games.

don't watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMiMz1uGCXI

 

[Mega]

It can be fun, but assuming you're doing it for practical long-term gameplay reasons, it makes more sense to work towards a goal of sensible changes.

For example, achieving through various means the original look of retro games on an old display (whether it's Retroarch shaders or actual Composite on a CRT), getting an improved image via RGB and HDMI mods, etc.

vs. arbitrarily making it look worse by removing half the picture for no reason or adding strange filters that smear, round and distort the pixels.

don't watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMiMz1uGCXI

Watch this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz8EqyoA1ks

 

[televator]

Yeah removing information from a game... ESPECIALLY an FPS for scanlines that were never intended is getting into fetish zone. Experimemtation is fine for giggles but that really shouldn't be considered any further.

This is the classic explanation. A bit long though, I think there are some decent examples on youtube if you go looking.

Good deinterlacing takes you from "bruh I hate interlaced content, PS2 is sucky" to "the fuck was I even complaining about?" Like I can barely tell when games are interlaced over the FM, you have to really know what to look for or go into the menu and check. Seriously, it has the same effect that good scalers have on 240p content, just making the games enjoyable again... no more distracting rat teeth, no more blurry mess in motion, no more flicker, no fiddling with GSModeSelector or bootsy emulators, just pop in the disc and enjoy.

If your TV handles interlaced content well I can see the passthrough on the OSSC being a good option. I don't know what your playing but I can't think of a single 480i-only game I own where it isn't worth the added latency.

I'm televator, and I endorse this message. Exceptional, or even decent enough deinterlacing on certain games/TV content can hold its own to native 480p. Silent Hill 2 on PS2 deinterlaced via CHECHA/B PS3 compares quite favorably Silent Hill 2 in native 480p from the OG Xbox.

Temporal/motion compensated deinterlacing just blows the doors off line doubling. We're talking 200% vertical resolution compared 240 lines of information from a line doubler every single frame. That's a substatial enough figure to just imagine. Seeing it in practice on the FM and on other devices leaves no further questions for me. Native 480p is preferred, sure, but deinterlaced 480i is not far behind and is certainly more preferable than using one wimpy field for a full frame like line doubling does.

 

[Timu]

Scanlines should be mainly for 240p games, more so 2D, IMO.

 

[YesManKablam]

I might be moving across the country soon, so I've started to look into picking up a Framemeister. Solaris has a unit with a Euro SCART adapter bundled with it. I'm presuming I need a power convertor or adapter too? I'm in Ireland.

Is there anything else needed other than the SCART adapter? I'd be using it with a predator x34 monitor. It's 3440x1440 and G-Sync.

 

[Rich!]

I might be moving across the country soon, so I've started to look into picking up a Framemeister. Solaris has a unit with a Euro SCART adapter bundled with it. I'm presuming I need a power convertor or adapter too? I'm in Ireland.

Is there anything else needed other than the SCART adapter? I'd be using it with a predator x34 monitor. It's 3440x1440 and G-Sync.

If you are able to wait, I'll be selling my framemeister as soon as I get the OSSC.

But yes, all you need is the euro-scart adapter. The power adapter that comes with the xrgb is worldwide compatible, 100v-240v so you just need to plug it into a passthrough adapter for your region (I just use a £2 travel plug adaper from tesco).

 

[Timu]

If you are able to wait, I'll be selling my framemeister as soon as I get the OSSC.

But yes, all you need is the euro-scart adapter.

Wait, why? I know the OSSC will be good though.

 

[Rich!]

Wait, why? I know the OSSC will be good though.

because

1. if the ossc does the same job as the framemeister for a mere £150, I will of course sell the xrgb on ebay for near £300. And that is indeed the price the xrgb currently goes for here - the resell value is fantastic.

2. Input lag. OSSC is significantly better, and that's a major selling point for me.


Really, the xrgb is just to tide me over until I hit my place on the ossc list which should be near the end of the year.

 

[YesManKablam]

If you are able to wait, I'll be selling my framemeister as soon as I get the OSSC.

But yes, all you need is the euro-scart adapter. The power adapter that comes with the xrgb is worldwide compatible, 100v-240v so you just need to plug it into a passthrough adapter for your region (I just use a £2 travel plug adaper from tesco).

Thanks for the info. I'm sure I have at least one of those travel adapters around already.

As for buying the framemeister, I would like to get it before October. So if you are selling around that time, I'd absolutely take you up on that offer.

 

[Rich!]

Thanks for the info. I'm sure I have at least one of those travel adapters around already.

As for buying the framemeister, I would like to get it before October. So if you are selling around that time, I'd absolutely take you up on that offer.

I may be in the september wave of the OSSC. I'll keep this thread posted.

 

[geniusbits]

experimentation is fun

Yeah I agree, did you see my reply before? I have tried messing with HDMI inputs turning off pass through, have you tried that? I don't have my FM set up now so I can't check on it again.

 

[angelic]

Yeah I agree, did you see my reply before? I have tried messing with HDMI inputs turning off pass through, have you tried that? I don't have my FM set up now so I can't check on it again.

No I didnt, sorry. I've tried everything yup, short of digging out my 360 component cable to try an analogue 720p. I'd love some scanlines on something like EDF4.1.

 

[Peltz]

Why not?

I was trying to get scanlines for things like axiom verge, fez, etc and I thought why not. It looks surprisingly good, downsampled Doom 4 with scanlines..sexy.

 

[Khaz]

That really depends on the game. I'm playing The Stick of truth now (lttp) and as my computer is apparently not good enough to keep audio and video in sync during cutscenes, I had to get down to 800x600 from 1600x1200 on the CRT. Stupid Windows 10 can't make the game fullscreen for any other resolution. It gives me some pretty natural scan lines, but the resolution is compressed so much that it results in moire artefacts during horizontal scrolling. Not really pretty.

 

[geniusbits]

No I didnt, sorry. I've tried everything yup, short of digging out my 360 component cable to try an analogue 720p. I'd love some scanlines on something like EDF4.1.

There are some things you can do to the HDMI image when the turn off pass through though right? Just not add scan lines.

 

[Peltz]

Oh and yes for retro but also Doom 4 looks like Metroid in 480p with scanlines.

Now that I'm home and seeing this on my laptop screen instead of mobile... I just got to say....

That's fucking hideous shiz, bro.

 

[Grief.exe]

I wouldn't mind seeing some modern games on Mega's setup.

 

[Mega]

The Hi-Def NES appears to have bad color palettes. These are direct capture with the USB3HDCAP... colors are the same connected directly to my plasma. If anyone has one and can confirm, that would be great. I'm assuming these can be fixed or new palettes added with a firmware update.

Hi-Def NES (FCEUX, best palette)

NESRGB on BVM and JVC S-Video (not the greatest pics, but you get the idea)

GPD XD Android handheld, NES emulator

I assumed it was maybe just my unit, but the MLIG guys have identical colors on their Hi-Def NES. No, it's not nitpicky.

 

[NormalFish]

afaik you're right that palettes can be added to the firmware that are more accurate. I think FBX has put one out that people in this thread have used.

 

[Mega]

You have a link for that? For what this mod costs it needs to look a lot better!

 

[Flizzzipper]

I was watching the recording of the last My Life In Gaming stream and they mentioned this thread. I like their channel a lot so it was cool to see. https://youtu.be/gMAKDQG3jJU?t=1h35m3s

 

[IrishNinja]

I was watching the recording of the last My Life In Gaming stream and they mentioned this thread. I like their channel a lot so it was cool to see. https://youtu.be/gMAKDQG3jJU?t=1h35m3s

haha cool, i love it when these things happen. hope these guys realize how great the work they put in is, it's always appreciated!

 

[Timu]

I was watching the recording of the last My Life In Gaming stream and they mentioned this thread. I like their channel a lot so it was cool to see. https://youtu.be/gMAKDQG3jJU?t=1h35m3s

OMG they're talking about us!!!=O

 

[New002]

Hi everyone! I'm currently looking at two CRTs. A Sony PVM 1953MD and a Sony PVM 20M2MDU.

I'm not very familiar with the intricacies of these monitors at all really. If the price is the same, would one of these be a better purchase over the other? The 20M2MDU has developed the horizontal r/g/b lines across the top. I understand that this can potentially be remedied by adjusting the Vertical Blanking. The 1953MD does not display this issue. Aside from that both look solid.

Thanks so much!

 

[Mega]

Their videos were grating to me but they grew on me and I subscribed. They're going above and beyond, especially comparing to all the basic crap channels out there with mundane observations and weekly video game hauls.

LOL @ 4KTV stuff we were talking about! I don't think it's gonna be drastic but 720p upscale should be soft enough to irritate someone who notices that sort of thing!

Edit: oh in that MLIG video, you can see the FM lag compared to the OSSC.

 

[Madao]

i may end up selling my FM too once i get the OSSC but i think it'd be wise to wait until i have both and test them side by side.

i was thinking about selling the FM to fund the OSSC initially but that didn't seem like a good idea if the OSSC ends up acting weird on my setup.

 

[D.Lo]

Here's 720 vs 1080 on my 4K with otherwise identical settings on FM for SMB, zoomed right in to show the softness and a bit of ringing (imperfect phone camera shots):

Obviously some scaling differences, and while the 720 actually looks sharper here that's just because they're cropped from different sized photos because I was lazy.

It's really not that big a deal in practice for 240p stuff.

So many pixels...

Aaaaaand when did Ultraimg start adding watermarks ugh...

 

[ToastyFrog]

I have a question about JP-21/SCART. Let's say I need to connect two cables or devices that are both wired for JP-21 to JP-21 with an extender or adapter (say, male-to-female extension cable, or a male-to-male adapter). Do I need to find an extension cable specifically designated as JP-21, or will any SCART extension cable work? I would think any cable should be fine, since the difference between JP-21 and SCART is how different functions are wired to the pins and I'd simply creating a bridge between two identical wire arrangements, but I just want to be sure.

 

[D.Lo]

I have a question about JP-21/SCART. Let's say I need to connect two cables or devices that are both wired for JP-21 to JP-21 with an extender or adapter (say, male-to-female extension cable, or a male-to-male adapter). Do I need to find an extension cable specifically designated as JP-21, or will any SCART extension cable work? I would think any cable should be fine, since the difference between JP-21 and SCART is how different functions are wired to the pins and I'd simply creating a bridge between two identical wire arrangements, but I just want to be sure.

It will be the same IF all 21 pins are connected throughout.

Some cables only connect the main lines (eg RGBLRC etc) so lines may be missing. But many cables are advertised as 'all 21 lines connected'.

 

[BTails]

I was watching the recording of the last My Life In Gaming stream and they mentioned this thread. I like their channel a lot so it was cool to see. https://youtu.be/gMAKDQG3jJU?t=1h35m3s

GAF -> Internet -> GAF. That's always the way.