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[Sixfortyfive]

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Sorry, haha. I don't know the difference. I updated my post with one I found from retro_console_accessories. It's a UK/PAL TV so I wanna say SCART...?

If your intention is to use it directly on a PAL TV/monitor (and not a Japanese display device), then yeah, you're looking for a SCART cable.

FYI, the pin-out of the Saturn A/V port is different on PAL systems than it is on American/Japanese systems. Therefore, no official SCART cables exist for Japanese consoles (although official Japanese RGB cables do exist), and you'll have to buy a custom-made cable if you want SCART directly out of the machine. Several people here can vouch for the cables that retro_console_accessories makes, so as long as the description of the specific cable you're looking at states that it's compatible with NTSC/Japanese systems and outputs SCART video (not JP21), then you're good.

 

[Danchi]

Thanks. Appreciate the help, Sixfortyfive.

 

[bodine1231]

Just tell them in the options to wire the PS cable for euro scart at checkout.

Also I use a $30 hama clone for my scart switch, and it has 0 loss in quality.

Ok cool,didn't know they made them to order.

Alright,so if I got that scart switch I'd just need this to plug into the scart switcher,then use the JP21 cable that came with the XRGB to connect the two and then just plug all my systems via RGB into the switcher?

 

[Beckx]

I'd just need this to plug into the scart switcher

That is a cool little device. Yo sixteen-bit, check that out, it may solve your need for a connector to your switch.

 

[Oare]

Describe the visual effect in detail. Does the picture look as if it's constantly shifting 1 line down, then 1 line up, over and over again?(...)
Test with a progressive source (RGB or component sources that you know are 240p/480p and not 480i) to see if you get the same effect.
(...)
SCART format or Japanese 21-pin format?

Thanks, I appreciate.
I should have mentioned the games I tried over D (component) with the PS2 were all PS1 games (Bushido Blade, FFVII, VIII). But maybe those aren't 240p?

As for the effect, the picture looks like it's displayed in a succession of wavy "S" shapes scanning down from the top to the bottom.
A little like this (ignore the dots, they're just here for formatting purposes):
(((((((((((((((.
.)))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((.
.)))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((.
.)))))))))))))))

AFC affects these "S" shapes in the following way: decreasing the value makes the curve less steep but longer, like this:
(((((((((((((((...
.(((((((((((((((..
..))))))))))))))).
.)))))))))))))))..
(((((((((((((((..
.(((((((((((((((..
..))))))))))))))).
.)))))))))))))))..
while increasing the value has the opposite effect. But there is no value where they disappear entirely.

the horizontal lines are fine. It's the vertical lines that appear wrong.
In the OSD menu too, horizontal lines are displayed properly, but vertical lines are intermittently blurred out and flicker.

Unfortunately, I have no RGB cable to try out at hand. But I'd be JP 21pin, since that's what's readily available here.

 

[CadetMahoney]

XRGB upscalers have revolutionized how I play retro games. Yeah, I had the bedroom CRT going on for awhile, but it's so much nicer to have everything in the main setup, big, loud and looking as its supposed to.

Jeez, XRGB mini is over $300.00.

Kinda steep.

Yeah there goes my interest.

 

[Beckx]

XRGB mini isn't the only linedoubler/upscaler out there. Check out all the stuff reviewed at retrogaming and see if there's something that meets your needs/price threshhold.

 

[IrishNinja]

you've paid more for less

just sayin'

 

[sixteen-bit]

That is a cool little device. Yo sixteen-bit, check that out, it may solve your need for a connector to your switch.

thanks, but I actually just need a SCART cable that terminates two male ends.

 

[Beckx]

thanks, but I actually just need a SCART cable that terminates two male ends.

No I know - but if this works as advertised you plug it into the switch, then plug in the JP21 XRGB mini-din adapter and boom, done. (That is, if your XRGB is close enough to the switch for the adapter to reach.)

 

[sixteen-bit]

The switch selector has 5 SCART inputs and 1 SCART output. All I need a a SCART cable with two male ends. One end goes in the single SCART output and the other goes into the TV or transcoder.

I don't have an XRGB. That isn't part of the equation.

 

[bodeiseifer]

^thats just a standard scart cable then, only non standard ones have a female end.

 

[Irate Drake]

This is what I used:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHhEQlLydD8

It seems to help some but nowhere near what a XRGB would do. Of course it is only $30.

I still have to get capture through capture card, but im happy with it.

 

[Peagles]

The switch selector has 5 SCART inputs and 1 SCART output. All I need a a SCART cable with two male ends. One end goes in the single SCART output and the other goes into the TV or transcoder.

I don't have an XRGB. That isn't part of the equation.

Ohh I was reading it before thinking you wanted a cable with one end male, and the other end like a Y cable that splits into two male. But you just want a cable with a single end on each end which are both male? Is that right? If so, where are you located, I'll try scope one out for you.

 

[bodine1231]

Holy shit,I ordered my XRGB from Japan yesterday and its on the truck for delivery TODAY!

 

[metsallica]

Ok cool,didn't know they made them to order.

Alright,so if I got that scart switch I'd just need this to plug into the scart switcher,then use the JP21 cable that came with the XRGB to connect the two and then just plug all my systems via RGB into the switcher?

Have that, can vouch for it. Works great, though I'm currently my SCART selector! Will probably buy whatever you end up with, IrishNinja!

And just wanted to throw up some quick early props for Baphomet; just got my NESRGB-modded NES and RGB-modded N64 back from him. The man does impeccable work and was a pleasure to deal with throughout. Anyone interested in either mod:

http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/
http://retrorgb.com/n64rgbmod.html

but lacking the necessary skills, keep it in the family and send him a PM!

 

[Beckx]

Have that, can vouch for it. Works great, though I'm currently my SCART selector! Will probably buy whatever you end up with, IrishNinja!

And just wanted to throw up some quick early props for Baphomet; just got my NESRGB-modded NES and RGB-modded N64 back from him. The man does impeccable work and was a pleasure to deal with throughout. Anyone interested in either mod:

http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/
http://retrorgb.com/n64rgbmod.html

but lacking the necessary skills, keep it in the family and send him a PM!

Seconded!

 

[bodine1231]

Got here in one day! Had to wait after work for the DHL driver but that's damn impressive! The first game I wanna play is Castlevania SOTN but of course I can't find it anywhere locally

 

[Madao]

so, anyone knows of someone that makes and sells custom-made cables?

now that i have the RGB N64 working properly, i'd like to keep using it instead of using S-Video but the cable i'm using is something i made with old cables i had around:

i can't fit that monstrosity in my setup.

ideally, a cable that plugs on the N64 and has a direct plug on the framemeister's RGB in would be the best.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Thanks, I appreciate.
I should have mentioned the games I tried over D (component) with the PS2 were all PS1 games (Bushido Blade, FFVII, VIII). But maybe those aren't 240p?

As for the effect, the picture looks like it's displayed in a succession of wavy "S" shapes scanning down from the top to the bottom.
A little like this (ignore the dots, they're just here for formatting purposes):
(((((((((((((((.
.)))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((.
.)))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((.
.)))))))))))))))

AFC affects these "S" shapes in the following way: decreasing the value makes the curve less steep but longer, like this:
(((((((((((((((...
.(((((((((((((((..
..))))))))))))))).
.)))))))))))))))..
(((((((((((((((..
.(((((((((((((((..
..))))))))))))))).
.)))))))))))))))..
while increasing the value has the opposite effect. But there is no value where they disappear entirely.

the horizontal lines are fine. It's the vertical lines that appear wrong.
In the OSD menu too, horizontal lines are displayed properly, but vertical lines are intermittently blurred out and flicker.

Unfortunately, I have no RGB cable to try out at hand. But I'd be JP 21pin, since that's what's readily available here.

I'd try the XRGB3 thread on the shmups forum if you're still having issues, as I'm not sure if there's anyone here with enough experience to lend useful advice.

I've been using my unit on a different model Dell CRT monitor myself and don't have this issue, although I haven't used composite video with it.

 

[IrishNinja]

congrats bodine1231, post your impressions man!

 

[Oare]

I'd try the XRGB3 thread on the shmups forum if you're still having issues, as I'm not sure if there's anyone here with enough experience to lend useful advice.

Thanks, I'll try that.
I've made some improvements in the meantime. The screen is still a bit shaky, but RPGs are playable now.
Scanlines are a fantastic feature.

 

[bodine1231]

congrats bodine1231, post your impressions man!

Ok so I played around with this for the past 3 or 4 hours,god damn this thing is awesome! I thought it would be a hassle to get set up, but for 240p content it was pretty much plug and play (just set to 720p/meister).I searched all around for settings but couldnt find any so I don't know if its set up optimally but its still looks really really good.

All I have going through it right now is the Wii through Component and I tried out all the emulators and VC games and they all look fantastic. Some of my VC games (Lords of Thunder) that can't run in 240p look like a blurry mess so I'll have to run those on emulators. It was also nice to have those Turbo CD soundtracks playing through my home theater speakers,stage two of Rondo gave me goosebumps!

My one big complaint though is 480p stuff,specifically Wii games,they look like shit. I tried every combination of settings to get Mario Galaxy 2 to look good but couldn't find a proper setting that I liked. When I'd set the picture to another setting (like from Standard to Normal2) the image would switch for a fraction of a second to a super clear image before switching over to the new,blurry,setting. I wish I could get it to look like that fraction of a second image. I did get it to look really good at 1080p with the x2 picture setting but of course the picture box was really small and I couldn't get my TV to zoom in proper. I also wished the 4:3 stuff at least fit the tops and bottom of the screen but on a 70" set its still well bigger than my 20" CRT.

Anyways,its definitely worth it for the 240p stuff alone. If I can get the Wii/480p stuff hammered out then it will be absolutely perfect because there's quite a few games I missed out on that system. I also didn't update it yet so maybe that stuff is better.

Incoming scanline porn (best I could do with my phone)

 

[Ban Puncher]

Anyone got a list of optimal Framemeister settings for each console? I keep forgetting what to change for every system and spend ages recalibrating.

 

[IrishNinja]

^glorious, and Turbo + MVS no less, yeah?

Anyone got a list of optimal Framemeister settings for each console? I keep forgetting what to change for every system and spend ages recalibrating.

not really, and for the most part the XRGB wiki everyone refers to is largely useless here; some DC & others but mostly empty pages. i wish there was such a resource, i'd try them for every system.

 

[bodine1231]

Anyone got a list of optimal Framemeister settings for each console? I keep forgetting what to change for every system and spend ages recalibrating.

For 240p stuff I pretty much ran it on the stock and used 720p/meister. The only other thing I adjusted was the color saturation,it was set way to high by default. For 480p/480i I'm still fiddling with it,I can't get anything to look right.

^glorious, and Turbo + MVS no less, yeah? .

Metal Slug is VC,Lords of Thunder is the Wiimednafen emulator. My MVS is on the way but I doubt it'll look any better.

 

[Voliko]

Ok so I played around with this for the past 3 or 4 hours,god damn this thing is awesome! I thought it would be a hassle to get set up, but for 240p content it was pretty much plug and play (just set to 720p/meister).I searched all around for settings but couldnt find any so I don't know if its set up optimally but its still looks really really good.

All I have going through it right now is the Wii through Component and I tried out all the emulators and VC games and they all look fantastic. Some of my VC games (Lords of Thunder) that can't run in 240p look like a blurry mess so I'll have to run those on emulators. It was also nice to have those Turbo CD soundtracks playing through my home theater speakers,stage two of Rondo gave me goosebumps!

My one big complaint though is 480p stuff,specifically Wii games,they look like shit. I tried every combination of settings to get Mario Galaxy 2 to look good but couldn't find a proper setting that I liked. When I'd set the picture to another setting (like from Standard to Normal2) the image would switch for a fraction of a second to a super clear image before switching over to the new,blurry,setting. I wish I could get it to look like that fraction of a second image. I did get it to look really good at 1080p with the x2 picture setting but of course the picture box was really small and I couldn't get my TV to zoom in proper. I also wished the 4:3 stuff at least fit the tops and bottom of the screen but on a 70" set its still well bigger than my 20" CRT.

I recall reading a way to have it look that way on the shmups forum, and I think my mini is set up to do that, but I can't remember how to do it right now... It's on that forum somewhere!

What kind of TV are you using in those shots by the way?

 

[bodine1231]

I recall reading a way to have it look that way on the shmups forum, and I think my mini is set up to do that, but I can't remember how to do it right now... It's on that forum somewhere!

What kind of TV are you using in those shots by the way?

70" Vizio E-series

If you can link me those settings I'll be eternally grateful,lol. I tried every combination but couldnt get it to clear up. The only things I didn't mess with were all the scanline settings.

 

[Voliko]

70" Vizio E-series

If you can link me those settings I'll be eternally grateful,lol. I tried every combination but couldnt get it to clear up. The only things I didn't mess with were all the scanline settings.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&hilit=framemeister+changing+modes&start=4560

Check the post with the 2 pictures of Mario Party and the responses.

That whole thread has some great info strewn about it.

 

[bodine1231]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&hilit=framemeister+changing+modes&start=4560

Check the post with the 2 pictures of Mario Party and the responses.

That whole thread has some great info strewn about it.

Dude thanks,that did it!! I've been reading through that thread and probably missed it,there is just so much information there. I just needed to change it from Game to Video and it cleared the blurriness right up.

Best part too is that it saves all the 480p settings and doesn't change the 240p ones. When I started up Metal Slug I thought I would have to change everything back but when it switched to 240p it automatically selected Meister and Game. Even my color settings changed back because I found that when playing in 480p,putting the Sharpness to 1 made everything more crisp without producing noise.

I don't have any before pictures,but image these with jagged,blurry edges.

 

[TnK]

So, my CRT TV has this odd fuzzy blurry image after some time, that goes on and off after placing the new S-video cables. If I turn the TV off for a second and on again, it goes away. To describe what happens to the picture, the screen becomes darker, and the whole thing gets all screwed up.

From a scale of 1-10, how long do I have until my CRT dies? Lol.

 

[panda-zebra]

I bought my xRGB mini just over a year ago. I remember reading about the possibility of firmware updates and at the time mine came with a fairly new update. I'm not sure where to look, but has there been an update at all recently that's worth applying? Or if it works for me as is, should I just leave well alone?

 

[Madao]

bad news. my RGB modded N64 began dying today and i went and removed the modification. the console started acting up very weirdly and the image would die out of nowhere. then, if i tried to turn it off and on, it wouldn't display anything.
i have no idea what might have gone wrong.

sucks that this happened. this has completely killed my interest in the mod and i'm going to stick with S-video because i don't feel like killing my n64 and having to buy another one at this point, especially for 2-3 games.

 

[sixteen-bit]

This is an awesome DIY project, I love the end result.
http://youtu.be/AH5M4Xj5-RY

 

[entremet]

Not really an RGB question, but I figure this thread may have some knowledge.

I connected my Wii to an older Sony Wega. Everytime I use component, it works on the menu, but when I play a game it output becomes black and white and triples and distorts, similar to the old VHS tracking issues.

Anyone know what may be the problem? I test the Wii on my plasma and it's fine. I also set it to 480i and 4:3.

 

[sonikokaruto]

Not really an RGB question, but I figure this thread may have some knowledge.

I connected my Wii to an older Sony Wega. Everytime I use component, it works on the menu, but when I play a game it output becomes black and white and triples and distorts, similar to the old VHS tracking issues.

Anyone know what may be the problem? I test the Wii on my plasma and it's fine. I also set it to 480i and 4:3.

this happens to me on anything that is either neo geo or cd systems ... somewhy

 

[Pyrrhus]

This is a fascinating thread. The benefits to a user on an LCD or plasma monitor seem obvious but what is the purpose of using an upscaler on a CRT television? I mean, aren't we all chasing the way these games look on CRT to begin with?

 

[IrishNinja]

sure, since you already have scanlines & such, it's mostly for options and RGB input, i'd imagine - though the latter can be done without such a device, or the need to introduce any amount of input lag. ive seen it about but don't think many use them for CRT's honestly.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

This is a fascinating thread. The benefits to a user on an LCD or plasma monitor seem obvious but what is the purpose of using an upscaler on a CRT television? I mean, aren't we all chasing the way these games look on CRT to begin with?

Most people don't use these things on CRTs, particularly the Framemeister, which only has HDMI output anyway. And in any case, it depends on the TV/monitor. If you happen to have a CRT with a SCART plug that can accept 15khz signals, then you have all the functionality you need, and most of the devices brought up in this thread would serve no purpose.

I'm currently using a CRT XGA monitor for my retro games, which boasts a decent range of supported resolutions and refresh rates (up to 1024p, 85hz), but the lowest it can go is standard VGA (640x480 w/ 31khz sources). I need a device that can convert 240p 15khz consoles to a compatible format, at the very least.

 

[entremet]

Does the framemeister accept component video?

 

[Beckx]

Does the framemeister accept component video?

Yes, but you need an adapter plug.

 

[Peagles]

Finally, pics of my powered SCART switch. It works a dream! No signal degradation that I can see at all.

One output, four inputs, and I have a couple of non-powered 3 way switches that I'm going to use so I can get everything plugged in at once (squeeeeeeeeeee!).

You'll notice it also has s-video and composite, the composite is just RCA though so you can apparently do component with a bit of fiddling. I haven't tried anything but SCART so far but I may make use of s-video and component at some stage.

Cost me about $10 USD equivalent. I'm stoked!

 

[IrishNinja]

damn, that cheap? nice one peagles!

 

[Peagles]

damn, that cheap? nice one peagles!

Yeh, second hand of course. It's supposed to come with a remote but they lost it, so I just use a little switch on the front to cycle through them. No big loss though!

 

[TnK]

So, does this work on TVs that don't have SCART input?

 

[baphomet]

So, does this work on TVs that don't have SCART input?

It's very unlikely that it's converting the scart inputs to svideo or composite if that's what you're asking.

 

[Peagles]

Correct, it's purely a switch. I will post some pics of my SCART to component converter though which I also highly recommend. No doubt it could be used in conjunction with this switch to allow for more SCART inputs too.

 

[TnK]

It's very unlikely that it's converting the scart inputs to svideo or composite if that's what you're asking.

Yup, that is what I was asking. I was guessing that it converts the SCART input to component though.

Correct, it's purely a switch. I will post some pics of my SCART to component converter though which I also highly recommend. No doubt it could be used in conjunction with this switch to allow for more SCART inputs too.

....And this is EXACTLY what I wanted to know. I remember asking about such a device before here, and I think richisawsome did not recommend it.

 

[Peagles]

Yup, that is what I was asking. I was guessing that it converts the SCART input to component though.

....And this is EXACTLY what I wanted to know. I remember asking about such a device before here, and I think richisawsome did not recommend it.

Next week when I'm unemployed (lol) I'll do some comparison pics of the SCART switch and the SCART to component converter to show (if any) the signal degradation. I'm using a PVM though so it's possible some degradation is there but not visible because it's a CRT, and would be more visible, say, through a Framemeister on an LCD.

 

[Shining]

For 240p stuff I pretty much ran it on the stock and used 720p/meister.

Dude, don't use Meister mode. It's a combination of image mode "GAME_1" and scanlines. Game_1 applies a low pass filter which blurs out some fine detail in the picture. Instead you should select image mode "PICTURE" and manually enable scanlines with the C button.