baphomet
Member
Stupid question, but you know the cart label will be face down when you put it in right?
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Stupid question, but you know the cart label will be face down when you put it in right?
Shadow Hog
Member
Must admit, I've been wondering how you're supposed to run Famicom games on an NES, preferably without having to open up the cart and slap the PCB into an old Gyromite cart. I know there's that HoneyBee adapter, but that's about all I know of.
I suppose that question's better posed to the NES thread, and it's not like I even own Famicom games for this to matter... just curiosity.
I suppose that question's better posed to the NES thread, and it's not like I even own Famicom games for this to matter... just curiosity.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think someone mass produces the Famicom> pin adaptor (it's just bare, no shell)... but it's been well over a year since I knew what site that was.
Otherwise find a Honeybee or similar type (there were a billion made in the day - I found one in a thrift store a couple years ago).
I recommend getting a Famicom, though
Whether original style, AV Famicom, or Twin Famicom, you'll have a cool conversation piece.quick question
I've got a Super Famicom but no cables or anything like that suitable for my XRGB (only my PAL one I use for my N64). Just wondering, would this cable work with it:
http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/super-nintendo-ntsc-rgb-av-scart-cable-av-lead-cord-for-sale.html
It states it's for USA consoles...but surely it'd work with the SFC too? Seeing as they're both NTSC and all
I've got a Super Famicom but no cables or anything like that suitable for my XRGB (only my PAL one I use for my N64). Just wondering, would this cable work with it:
http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/super-nintendo-ntsc-rgb-av-scart-cable-av-lead-cord-for-sale.html
It states it's for USA consoles...but surely it'd work with the SFC too? Seeing as they're both NTSC and all
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yes. They are interchangeable.
excellent! thanks
I'll be using that site for all the cables from now on - each one has worked flawlessly with the XRGB whereas the ones from ebay don't - even if they do output RGB to my CRT.
just a pity they don't have a PSX cable there. I need one that has composite sync, and like hell am I gonna find one of those on ebay. If I knew how to wire one up myself, that'd be awesome - I have more than one PSX RGB SCART cable lying around.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Hold on a tic... you have a PAL SCART cable for your N64?
That might actually work on the SNES/SFC..?
PAL N64 Scart might be wired up unusually... I dunno.
But the same SNES/SFC SCART cable will work on an NTSC N64 modded to run RGB.
That might actually work on the SNES/SFC..?
PAL N64 Scart might be wired up unusually... I dunno.
But the same SNES/SFC SCART cable will work on an NTSC N64 modded to run RGB.
baphomet
Member
Okay, I figured out my scanline issue - it's due to blowing up the image on a 120" screen. (._.) On light backgrounds you really notice that one line that's darkened and it creates a strange visual effect. The rest of the time it's fine. Don't know if I'll keep scanlines on, though, because it really bothers me on light backgrounds.
Yeah, I even tried it both configurations because I didn't know how it was supposed to look by sight. Reassembling it into the HA cart now to see if that helps.
Edit: err, I guess I'm not going to do that, don't want to rip up the label on the Holy Diver cart to find the screws. Dammit.
Edit Edit: well, after cleaning the contacts on the cart I can now get an image (though a garbled one) and sound. So this seems to be a problem with the cart. :/
Edit Edit Edit: after vigorous cleaning, success! Also, this game is ridiculously hard, as advertised.
Yeah, I even tried it both configurations because I didn't know how it was supposed to look by sight. Reassembling it into the HA cart now to see if that helps.
Edit: err, I guess I'm not going to do that, don't want to rip up the label on the Holy Diver cart to find the screws. Dammit.
Edit Edit: well, after cleaning the contacts on the cart I can now get an image (though a garbled one) and sound. So this seems to be a problem with the cart. :/
Edit Edit Edit: after vigorous cleaning, success! Also, this game is ridiculously hard, as advertised.
It's the same cable I've had for years. Back in the day when I had a PAL SNES and a SFC, the cable displayed RGB from the SNES but only composite from the SFC. PAL cable.
This same cable displays RGB from my PAL Gamecube and RGB from my USA RGB N64. Both via my CRT and the XRGB. It just seems to be the SNES that's odd with the regional differences.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
And yet I use a European SCART cable interchangeably on my NTSC SNES and SFC + TV.... and it's supposed to work on an RGB-modded NTSC N64 (but maybe that's because it's specifically modded in a way to allow that).
Additional shots:
Here's Holy Diver working as intended!
Now that I've got all the issues sorted (or, in the case of the scanlines, at least understood), I am ridiculously happy with the NESRGB board. The image is so clean, so vibrant. It's like a whole new world after living with composite.
Highly recommend the board to any NES enthusiast.
Here's Holy Diver working as intended!
Now that I've got all the issues sorted (or, in the case of the scanlines, at least understood), I am ridiculously happy with the NESRGB board. The image is so clean, so vibrant. It's like a whole new world after living with composite.
Highly recommend the board to any NES enthusiast.
bingo
well, not to the n64 part. that doesn't make any difference. What you have is a EURO SCART cable modded to work on NTSC SNES consoles. Plug your cable into a PAL SNES and you won't get RGB.
Shadow Hog
Member
Most Famicoms have hard-wired controllers, and my NES controllers already require extension cables just to reach my couch. It wouldn't work out.I recommend getting a Famicom, though
Also, Famicoms other than the AV Famicom don't support anything higher than RF, which the XRGB-mini doesn't take.
bodeiseifer
Member
OK, I was all set to buy a SLG IN A BOX for my birhtday but now I think I will go with the XRGB mini, I'd be very grateful if anyone who lives in the UK could recommend a place to purchase it from?
Birthday is in 4 weeks so not sure if it will arrive in time.
Birthday is in 4 weeks so not sure if it will arrive in time.
There is a holy diver game? Does it star dio?
Solaris Japan. Took three days to get to my local post office.
IrishNinja
Member
richisawesome if retro_console doesn't have a PSX or whatever cable you need up right now, PM her from her ebay store: she's linked me to stuff before that wasn't yet up or that i'd seen/etc. you never know.
haha i love it, gets the job done!
yeah, my issue with vertical scrolling on the scanlines is exactly that - noticeable mostly on light/white backgrounds. my set's only 50" though, so again i'm wondering if its a setting in the mini or some internal scaler in my panny plasma that's conflicting with the device or what. turnding down the lines diminishes it but if i have them on, i typically want them thick anyway.
haha i love it, gets the job done!
yeah, my issue with vertical scrolling on the scanlines is exactly that - noticeable mostly on light/white backgrounds. my set's only 50" though, so again i'm wondering if its a setting in the mini or some internal scaler in my panny plasma that's conflicting with the device or what. turnding down the lines diminishes it but if i have them on, i typically want them thick anyway.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Not so. I have straight up Euro SCART SNES cables.. they will absolutely work on PAL SNESs.
It's pretty hard to figure out the truth, but I imagine PAL N64 Scart cables are odd, but made to work with PAL SNES.... Actual PAL SNES cables work great on US SNES and SFC.
Most Famicoms have hard-wired controllers, and my NES controllers already require extension cables just to reach my couch. It wouldn't work out.
Also, Famicoms other than the AV Famicom don't support anything higher than RF, which the XRGB-mini doesn't take.
AV Famicom has the same detachable controllers as NES, and the AV output as you say.
But if we're in this thread....... a NES RGB mod, for whatever Famicom, is probably in the cards.
Yeah. I guess the way it's done is accurate but on a large screen, instead of accentuating the pixel art they become distracting. Not a huge issue but I think I'll play with them off most of the time.
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BTW: all my pics were taken with the "improved" palette of the NESRGB.
CidHighwind89
Member
Hmmm well on the topic of NESRGB. When in the world are those boards going to restock? I have been checking the website for a while now and they are still sold out. Not sure if there is any other place to buy the item
viletim makes them so unless people are buying and reselling, no. Maybe check the original thread or email him?
CidHighwind89
Member
Yeah. Was wondering if he just wasn't updating his store.
They were back in stock for a long while over Xmas and New Year, or did you start checking just recently?
CidHighwind89
Member
Started checking around January. I will just have to keep checking I suppose.
bodine1231
Member
Ok so I've been reading a bit and I'm confused as to what I need to get. Right now I'm using my Wii via component on a Sony PVM and through the SNES9x emulator I'm able to force 480p giving me pretty much the best crt scanlines possible,amazing picture.
BUT
I'm going to have to get rid of this monitor soon because it is taking up to much space. I've been reading about the Framemeister but now I see things like the SLG3000 and VGA Scanline generators which are significantly cheaper and I'm just really confused about where to go with this.
What would be the best/easiest route to go to get around the same PQ I'm getting with my Sony PVM using my Wii to play emulated/VC games on my main LED TV (or pc monitor)?
BUT
I'm going to have to get rid of this monitor soon because it is taking up to much space. I've been reading about the Framemeister but now I see things like the SLG3000 and VGA Scanline generators which are significantly cheaper and I'm just really confused about where to go with this.
What would be the best/easiest route to go to get around the same PQ I'm getting with my Sony PVM using my Wii to play emulated/VC games on my main LED TV (or pc monitor)?
bodine1231
Member
So whats the difference between an XRGB Mini and an SLG3000? I know I'll have to get a converter for the Wii (will this work?) but it still comes out almost $300 cheaper.
I'm not sure what settings im using in the emulation but here is a pic of the Wii and its damn close to my SNES with RGB. I just want this in my living room or 2nd monitor.
Shadow Hog
Member
AFAIK, SLG3000 takes VGA input, adds scanlines, and outputs to VGA.
XRGB-mini takes composite, S-Video, component (with an adapter) and RGB (JP21 adapter included, but you can get a SCART one instead), possibly adds scanlines, upscales to 480p, 720p or 1080p, and outputs HDMI. (I think there's DVI output as well - I saw something like that in the menus - but I don't use it, so I dunno.)
XRGB-mini takes composite, S-Video, component (with an adapter) and RGB (JP21 adapter included, but you can get a SCART one instead), possibly adds scanlines, upscales to 480p, 720p or 1080p, and outputs HDMI. (I think there's DVI output as well - I saw something like that in the menus - but I don't use it, so I dunno.)
bodine1231
Member
Ah ok,I see. So if I get a XRGB mini with the component adapter for the Wii,will that look about the same as my SNES with RGB through the XRGB?
baphomet
Member
Alright, so my xrgb mini just arrived. So far this thing is pretty cool. Looks seriously stunning on my 40'' lcd in the living room. I've got a few questions though.
Firstly, I'm having some issues with my Genesis 2 cable. Sometimes it works fine for a few minutes, sometimes it continues to black out every few seconds. I assume it's wanting composite sync and is getting composite video or something like that. If anyone knows for sure before I start screwing around with the cable let me know.
Second. I'm getting some odd scan lines with my MVS. There's only about 3 of them, but it looks like a few are slightly too close together making it look like there's a darker black line through the middle. Any ideas what might be causing this? Here's a few pics just to show what's up.
Other than those issues I'm loving this thing so far. It looks crazy good. I absolutely would recommend it to anyone interested in one.
Firstly, I'm having some issues with my Genesis 2 cable. Sometimes it works fine for a few minutes, sometimes it continues to black out every few seconds. I assume it's wanting composite sync and is getting composite video or something like that. If anyone knows for sure before I start screwing around with the cable let me know.
Second. I'm getting some odd scan lines with my MVS. There's only about 3 of them, but it looks like a few are slightly too close together making it look like there's a darker black line through the middle. Any ideas what might be causing this? Here's a few pics just to show what's up.
Other than those issues I'm loving this thing so far. It looks crazy good. I absolutely would recommend it to anyone interested in one.
sixteen-bit
Member
CoachKev was having that same issue, lol. Glad you got it sorted.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I wish my camera wasn't butt. I'm having fun messing with all the combinations of monitors and consoles I have with the XRGB-3 but I can't really get any respectable close-up shots with this cheap old piece of junk.
The XRGB-3 is touchy as hell but I honestly kind of enjoy tinkering with each individual console to some extent to get everything working right.
The XRGB-3 is touchy as hell but I honestly kind of enjoy tinkering with each individual console to some extent to get everything working right.
IrishNinja
Member
^yeah, that raises a fair question: how are people getting high quality shots/feeds from these setups? Mzo has only been able to get s-vid from what he has on hand, which is quite a bit more extensive than myself & others with a basic setup, presumably. are most of the YT feeds/etc that we see coming from emulators for this reason? i just assumed it was cost of the carts/etc.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Oh, I already have all the equipment I need to take direct video captures. I'd just like to have a way to get close-up shots on how these things actually look on some high quality displays.
sixteen-bit
Member
There are some tuorials online explaining how to shoot CRTs and what settings you should use. You don't exactly need a state-of-the-art camera or lens.
bodine1231
Member
Damn,I'm so jealous. How long did it take to get to you/what did you pay,if you don't mind my asking. I found a nice place to put my Sony PVM so room isn't an issue anymore but I kinda still want to get one just to see Lords of Thunder on a 70" screen with scanlines! Have you tried running a Wii through it? I still want to know if a wii Emulator with component looks as good as a SNES with RGB.
baphomet
Member
I paid $380 for it from someone in the states. It's also included a jp21 pin to scart cable which would normally have been another $30 or so. So I got a really good deal on it. I know Yakumo on here sells them. I was going to buy one from him, but ended up getting the one in the states. I believe he said they were ~$390 shipped ems from Japan. So that would take about a week to arrive. I haven't tried a Wii because I don't have a component to d-terminal cable yet. I can pretty much guarantee that through the mini an SNES in 240p will look better than the same game on Wii in 480p. I need to get a new snes cable before I can take any shots from it, but I can get a picture of any SNES game in 240p on my pvm.
bodine1231
Member
Cool. I'd like to get one from the states if possible although I'd still have to buy the component to D-terminal cable so I guess it wouldnt matter. I'm still going back and forth on whether to get one or not. The only real reason would be screen size. I have pretty much the perfect retro CRT (Sony PVM) which looks great but it's only 19" and takes up a good chunk of my PC room. So the reason I'd be getting one is a) screen size and b) upscaling of Wii and PS2 games.
baphomet
Member
Just want to get some honest opinions on how this is capturing footage. When using scanlines it gives it a strange effect on the captured video. To me it doesn't look that great. It doesn't really look bad, but i just want to see what you all think. Of course it looks exactly as it should on the tv when i'm capturing.
http://youtu.be/5NvsP1IN8No
Edit: apparently i have no idea how to embed a youtube video on gaf
http://youtu.be/5NvsP1IN8No
Edit: apparently i have no idea how to embed a youtube video on gaf
IrishNinja
Member
^lookin good! someone's gonna say it's too dark but that's about where it is, i tend to up the brightness just a bit if it bothers me. the overscan line seems minimized as well.
baphomet
Member
At the end when the logo shows up, the red looks really strange to me. I have no clue what's causing it with the el gato. It looks perfect when not using scanlines though.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
If it looks correct on the TV passthrough output but funky on the capture then there are two likely points of quality loss:
- the device's color sampling, especially from the on-board hardware H.264 encoding (every USB2 HD capture device suffers from this in particular)
- the software video compression (codec and other settings)
If your preview screen on your PC looks fine but the output file looks poor, then point 2 is the likely culprit (and can probably be fixed). If your preview screen already looks fucked up then it's probably point 1.
No capture card can deliver full RGB quality (unless you're using professional equipment that commands prices of four figures or more). They pretty much always sample the colors in such a way that greatly reduces USB bandwidth at the expense of some color loss, typically some white and black crush at the edges of the RGB spectrum, and sometimes more pronounced loss on some colors than others. I have a section on my review of the XCAPTURE-1 that goes into some detail on how good/bad its chroma subsampling is, how it scores on color tests on various consoles, and how it compares to the Intensity Shuttle. (You'll notice that the XCAPTURE's YUY2 color sampling tends to show particularly weak results with bright greens and dark reds in most configurations.) And the Elgato is going to be worse than either of those devices because it's USB2.
(As an aside, I'd be more concerned about the wretched sound coming out of that Genesis 2, personally.)
- the device's color sampling, especially from the on-board hardware H.264 encoding (every USB2 HD capture device suffers from this in particular)
- the software video compression (codec and other settings)
If your preview screen on your PC looks fine but the output file looks poor, then point 2 is the likely culprit (and can probably be fixed). If your preview screen already looks fucked up then it's probably point 1.
No capture card can deliver full RGB quality (unless you're using professional equipment that commands prices of four figures or more). They pretty much always sample the colors in such a way that greatly reduces USB bandwidth at the expense of some color loss, typically some white and black crush at the edges of the RGB spectrum, and sometimes more pronounced loss on some colors than others. I have a section on my review of the XCAPTURE-1 that goes into some detail on how good/bad its chroma subsampling is, how it scores on color tests on various consoles, and how it compares to the Intensity Shuttle. (You'll notice that the XCAPTURE's YUY2 color sampling tends to show particularly weak results with bright greens and dark reds in most configurations.) And the Elgato is going to be worse than either of those devices because it's USB2.
(As an aside, I'd be more concerned about the wretched sound coming out of that Genesis 2, personally.)
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