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[Fatghost]

Allah was used by Christians before Muslims in Arabic, do some reading

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/allah.html

http://www.equip.org/free/DI220.htm

http://www.albushra.org/varia/allah.htm

Again, I don't think you're following me here. "God" is not a name. It is a description or a title. Allah is how you say "God" in Arabic. I know Arab Christians use the word Allah. I imagine the Arabic word for dog describes both a cocker spaniel and a shitzu. I don't see how this really changes what we're talking about here.

 

[Firest0rm]

Again, I don't think you're following me here. "God" is not a name. It is a description or a title. Allah is how you say "God" in Arabic. I know Arab Christians use the word Allah. I imagine the Arabic word for dog describes both a cocker spaniel and a shitzu. I don't see how this really changes what we're talking about here.

You were saying "The entity that it describes carries a different definition in either religion despite having the same title/label."

Christian Arabs used and still use Allah to describe the same definition as other Christians.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Again, I don't think you're following me here. "God" is not a name. It is a description or a title. Allah is how you say "God" in Arabic. I know Arab Christians use the word Allah. I imagine the Arabic word for dog describes both a cocker spaniel and a shitzu. I don't see how this really changes what we're talking about here.

Yes, but the thing is, Muslims, Christians, and Jews don't refer to A God, or an Allah, or whatever. Allah, Adonai, Yahweh, and God, they're all used as proper nouns in these religions. The words, when used as proper nouns, refer to the same almighty god. The Greeks did not call Zeus THE god, he was king of the gods, but he was A god.


In the case of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, God IS a name.

God, Allah, Adonai, and Yahweh, they're the same being.

It's like my english first & middle name being Stewart Ryan and my hebrew names being Shmuel Reuven (Shmoo-el Roo-vein, for anyone wondering how they're pronounced). Doesn't mean Shmuel Reuven is not Stewart Ryan, it's just a different way of referring to the same person.

I don't know if this is a misunderstanding or what, but I don't see where you're coming from.

 

[GSG Flash]

I don't know if Muslims believe Christians go to heaven if they don't convert to Islam.

Yes we, Sunni + Shia's, believe that any person that believes in one god (Christians, Jews, and obviously Muslims) can go to heaven. Since god is just, he gives every god believing individual a fair chance and if they were a good person in this life, they will not suffer the fires of hell.

 

[Fatghost]

Yes, but the thing is, Muslims, Christians, and Jews don't refer to A God, or an Allah, or whatever. Allah, Adonai, Yahweh, and God, they're all used as proper nouns in these religions. The words, when used as proper nouns, refer to the same almighty god. The Greeks did not call Zeus THE god, he was king of the gods, but he was A god.


In the case of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, God IS a name.

God, Allah, Adonai, and Yahweh, they're the same being.

It's like my english first & middle name being Stewart Ryan and my hebrew names being Shmuel Reuven (Shmoo-el Roo-vein, for anyone wondering how they're pronounced). Doesn't mean Shmuel Reuven is not Stewart Ryan, it's just a different way of referring to the same person.

I don't know if this is a misunderstanding or what, but I don't see where you're coming from.

No, God is a title. Adonai just means lord. Yahweh and Yahweh Saboath just means "Lord of Hosts". God is a title, or a description. Allah is the arabic for this translation. Jehova is a latin version of Yahweh.

God said his name is I AM, a round about way of saying he is beyond names. God is just a description. I don't know how to make this more clear for you - you're a bright kid but its obvious you're not very well versed in theological thinking.

 

[GaimeGuy]

No, God is a title. Adonai just means lord. Yahweh and Yahweh Saboath just means "Lord of Hosts". God is a title, or a description. Allah is the arabic for this translation. Jehova is a latin version of Yahweh.

God said his name is I AM, a round about way of saying he is beyond names. God is just a description. I don't know how to make this more clear for you - you're a bright kid but its obvious you're not very well versed in theological thinking.

Well, I consider all of these to be "names." for the deity. You may refer to them as titles, but, since they're pretty much exclusively used to refer to the only eternal deity that has ever existed (in my religious views), that they are names. I guess it's kind of a semantics war we've gotten into, and it doesn't really matter.

 

[Fatghost]

Well, I consider all of these to be "names." for the deity. You may refer to them as titles, but, since they're pretty much exclusively used to refer to the only eternal deity that has ever existed (in my religious views), that they are names. I guess it's kind of a semantics war we've gotten into, and it doesn't really matter.

It's like saying George Bush and Bill Clinton are both "Mr. President" therefore they are the same person. I don't know if that's semantics or not - if you delve into the specifics more deeply, you'll find that the Jews, Christians and Muslims have a very different concept of God as a supreme being and the nature of God's relationship with humanity. It's all well and good to say "Allah = Yahweh" but it's really not very accurate if you look at the core of the religions.

 

[GaimeGuy]

It's like saying George Bush and Bill Clinton are both "Mr. President" therefore they are the same person. I don't know if that's semantics or not - if you delve into the specifics more deeply, you'll find that the Jews, Christians and Muslims have a very different concept of God as a supreme being and the nature of God's relationship with humanity. It's all well and good to say "Allah = Yahweh" but it's really not very accurate if you look at the core of the religions.

As has already been said, though, Christian Arabs in the middle east to refer to the deity as Allah, as well. And I'm sure some Jewish Arabs do, too.


As you've said, they're just titles. It's kind of like the President can be referred to as "Mr. President" or "Commander in Chief." I suppose.

Meh, forget it. We're getting nowhere, and there really isn't a point to this argument. :lol

 

[Fatghost]

As has already been said, though, Christian Arabs in the middle east to refer to the deity as Allah, as well. And I'm sure some Jewish Arabs do, too.


As you've said, they're just titles. It's kind of like the President can be referred to as "Mr. President" or "Commander in Chief." I suppose.

Meh, forget it. We're getting nowhere, and there really isn't a point to this argument. :lol

I never denied that Arab Christians also say Allah. "Allah" just is the translation of the title. Doesn't mean it's the same entity.

 

[Firest0rm]

I never denied that Arab Christians also say Allah. "Allah" just is the translation of the title. Doesn't mean it's the same entity.

It does mean the same entity. Christian Arabs say "Jesus Son of Allah", infact thats how its said in Arabic Bibles. Are you trying to say that by saying Allah, Arab Christians are refering to the Muslim definition not theirs?

 

[Fatghost]

It does mean the same entity. Christian Arabs say "Jesus Son of Allah", infact thats how its said in Arabic Bibles. Are you trying to say that by saying Allah, Arab Christians are refering to the Muslim definition not theirs?

Huh?

No. I'm saying that "Allah" as defined by a Muslim would be an entity different than "Allah" defined by a Christian.

I don't know what you're trying to argue here. That "Allah" is the arabic equivalent of the English "God" is not in question. What is in question is whether or not the Islamic conception of the supreme entity is compatible with the Christian conception of same, which it definately is not.

 

[Boogie]

 

[Fatghost]

I know the thread is completely derailed at this point. If a mod wants to separate the thread, that would probably be best.

 

[Firest0rm]

I know the thread is completely derailed at this point. If a mod wants to separate the thread, that would probably be best.

Ok now I understand want your trying to say. I thought you were saying that by saying Allah, then a person is only referring to the Muslim definition. Ok then carry on.

 

[Zaptruder]

I believe a more relevant analogy for the differences between Christians and Muslims would be like two guys liking the same car, but for different reasons. One likes it because of it's awesome performance and grunty sounds, while the other likes it because it handles great on the track and looks absolutely sleek to boot.

A coarser analogy would be like two guys saying this one chick is the best fuck they've ever had; and she's the best fuck in the doggy position, while the other disagrees and thinks she's the best fuck in the cowboy position.

Both are mutually exclusively, by virtue of the fact you can only do one at a time, but at the sametime aren't entirely different from the other; they both deal in the same subject matter, and the object/item of focus is the same damned thing.

From a secular point of view, it doesn't mean a goddamn thing, but it's more than slightly amusing/depressing to have 2 relatively like religions killing each other for the differences. Well some of those in the religion anyway... but then I attribute this to the human quality of been an ass; you're gonna find assholes everywhere, regardless of what group/upbringing they're from.

Fatghost will try to convince you otherwise about the absolute differences in the two religions, but they're a damn sight closer then religions based on grecian or roman gods.

... ok so I just wanted to make the analogies which do make sense from a certain abstract POV.