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[TestOfTide]

They can offer insurance...they just have to offer plans that comply with state requirements.

No that's how Health care law CURRENTLY works. Removing the state lines means that companies only have to comply with the state they are based in.

Federal min wage doesn't supercede state or municipal min wage. States regularly enforce their own regulations in numerous industries.

Um....yes it does. Federal Minimum wage absolutely supersedes state minimum wage in the sense that no state can allow wages to go lower than the federal minimum wage.

 

[Psychoward]

They can offer insurance...they just have to offer plans that comply with state requirements.

Federal min wage doesn't supercede state or municipal min wage. States regularly enforce their own regulations in numerous industries.

It is illegal to be paid less than the federal minimum wage.

 

[FTF]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

 

[Nafai1123]

No that's how Health care law CURRENTLY works. Removing the state lines means that companies only have to comply with the state they are based in.



Um....yes it does. Federal Minimum wage absolutely supersedes state minimum wage in the sense that no state can allow wages to go lower than the federal minimum wage.

Maybe I'm confused, but wasn't selling across state lines an option already? What makes this different? Pardon my ignorance if it's more serious.

My point was states can enact legislation increasing the requirements of companies operating in the state, not that states can offer LESS than is federally regulated.

 

[sangreal]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

lower premiums

it's not true, but that is the answer and it is all anyone w/ employer-sponsored healthcare cares about

nevermind that it covers nothing and deductibles are going to increase

oh yeah and "sick people don't have a right to spend our money" -- ie the response you saw to kimmel

 

[JetBlackPanda]

We are so fucked. Just reading the posts in local Utah news sites regarding the news on this bill and the overwhelming majority of people post things like "this is what you get when you elect a liberal in republican clothing" "Paul Ryan is a left agent that bends to democrats will" "we need a true conservative and not these lefties in disguise"

 

[Hubbl3]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

"Your tax dollars won't be going to freeloading minorities anymore"
"You'll now have more options and more freedom"
"The free market will make sure you get the best prices"

ect.

 

[slit]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

Just keep telling them it's a wonderful plan, remember the way the bill is currently set up the a lot of the provisions don't go in effect until 2020.

 

[Zolo]

We are so fucked. Just reading the posts in local Utah news sites regarding the news on this bill and the overwhelming majority of people post things like "this is what you get when you elect a liberal in republican clothing" "Paul Ryan is a left agent that bends to democrats will" "we need a true conservative and not these lefties in disguise"

Just keep telling them it's a wonderful plan, remember the way the bill is currently set up the a lot of the provisions don't go in effect until 2020.

So the idea is it won't get bad until Democrats are likely in?

 

[rjinaz]

We are so fucked. Just reading the posts in local Utah news sites regarding the news on this bill and the overwhelming majority of people post things like "this is what you get when you elect a liberal in republican clothing" "Paul Ryan is a left agent that bends to democrats will" "we need a true conservative and not these lefties in disguise"

And people will tell you to stop calling them ignorant because it's not nice and not true.
If they followed this even a little they would know the reason it is so bad is because the far-right wants it that way. But yeah, let's blame the Left because it doesn't actually require the use of their limited brain cells.

 

[TestOfTide]

Maybe I'm confused, but wasn't selling across state lines an option already? What makes this different? Pardon my ignorance if it's more serious.

It has technically always been an option, but is somewhat of a nightmare to actually be in compliance with the healthcare laws of multiple states.

But what the GOP suggestion would do is basically tell insurance companies that they can be based in Kansas, sell insurance to Massachusetts, and refuse to comply with MA law because they are based in Kansas.

My point was states can enact legislation increasing the requirements of companies operating in the state, not that states can offer LESS than is federally regulated.

Yes, but there is no contradiction there because if the state has a higher minimum wage than the nation, then following state law automatically means you are in compliance with national law.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Based on your evasive posts, I'm going to infer that you want it to pass. And you have, on multiple occasions, congratulated yourself for predicting that it would pass.

So your sole purpose in this thread is to gloat while the millions of people have to worry about whether they will be able to get health insurance, let alone pay the premiums.

Congratulations, you win at life. Your prize: you're a complete sociopath.

I personally don't want it pass and in my ideal world there would be single payer universal healthcare for all, the private healthcare business wouldn't exist, there shouldn't be profit on health

 

[sangreal]

So the idea is it won't get bad until Democrats are likely in?

The idea is that people won't kick them out in 2018/2020 because of the law since it hasn't impacted them

It didn't work out for Democrats in 2010

 

[Beartruck]

Just keep telling them it's a wonderful plan, remember the way the bill is currently set up the a lot of the provisions don't go in effect until 2020.

Seriously? So the plan is almost literally "Make a huge fucking mess and dump it in the democrat's lap years later so it looks like their fault." Pure evil.

 

[slit]

So the idea is it won't get bad until Democrats are likely in?

Yes, like repealing the expanded medicaid funding in the states that actually expanded it. That would not take effect until 2020.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

If this shit passes, I am going to start a movement where people go and dance on the graves of trump supporters that died because they lost healthcare.

 

[Nafai1123]

It has technically always been an option, but is somewhat of a nightmare to actually be in compliance with the healthcare laws of multiple states.

But what the GOP suggestion would do is basically tell insurance companies that they can be based in Kansas, sell insurance to Massachusetts, and refuse to comply with MA law because they are based in Kansas.



Yes, but there is no contradiction there because if the state has a higher minimum wage than the nation, then following state law automatically means you are in compliance with national law.

If that ends up happening it sounds like a major state rights issue. Thanks for the info.

 

[Tye The Czar]

If the death rate increases as a result of Obamacare being repealed, then someone should put up a list of everyone who voted in favor for it saying "WANTED FOR MASS MURDER".

 

[Journeywalker]

I personally don't want it pass and in my ideal world there would be single payer universal healthcare for all, the private healthcare business wouldn't exist, there shouldn't be profit on health

Well then get on the phone and tell your congressperson that. The momentum for single-payer has to start somewhere.

 

[Aphexian]

So you want Trump voters to die to teach them a lesson?

Reap what you sow

 

[Aaronology]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

What are Trump supporters thinking? Hmm, from Free Republic:

As long as not a single Democrat votes for it, I'm on board
You can never get everything you want, but this can only be an improvement over Obamacare, gut-wrenching to Democrats, and subject to future modification.

All that most of us need is catastrophic coverage, for major things like life saving surgery following a car accident.

If people are paying out of their own pockets for each health incident, the prices will come down fast.

Get rid of those regulations around health providers. No more earning 250k to write prescriptions. A freemarket health Care means everybody is responsible individually. Patients and providers. No more bullshit charges and no more subsidizing somebody else’s bad life decisions.

I think I can agree that the bill sucks, but it may be the best deal we can get from those cucks in Congress... at this time.

Pre-existing conditions affect say 5 million people. Why ruin healthcare for the other 320 million people by advancing to single-payer government VA style “healthcare”?

That’s why I’m pi**ed.

Trump is trying to save the nation, but it is not salvagable. I should have realized that despite his election. All he can do is to slow down the decline and put off the fall, and not by very much either.

We are so doomed.

-

That is President Trump and you may be so doomed but you do not have to be. Pray without ceasing that God will continue to show us mercy to turn from our wickedness as a nation and make America safe, secure, and a blessing to all of our citizens, as well as all our neighbors throughout the world. May He Who Inhabits the Heavens grant wisdom, understanding, and knowledge to President Donald Trump, Vice President Michael Pence, their families, staff, and all who exercise just and rightful authority in the land. May we be grateful for this miracle and that Hillary Clinton is not President this very day.

America.

 

[Psychoward]

What are Trump supporters thinking? Hmm, from Free Republic:













America.

Have you tried reaching out to them?

/s

 

[sangreal]

What are Trump supporters thinking? Hmm, from Free Republic:

America.

Sounds about right. It's console wars applied to politics

but I do have to single out this nonsense:

If people are paying out of their own pockets for each health incident, the prices will come down fast.

This is the idea behind HDHP/HSAs. Hasn't reduced costs at all.

Get rid of those regulations around health providers. No more earning 250k to write prescriptions. A freemarket health Care means everybody is responsible individually. Patients and providers. No more bullshit charges and no more subsidizing somebody else’s bad life decisions.

who the fuck wants unregulated doctors?!

 

[clarknova156]

Thankfully NY has decided to ignore Trumpcare if it passes. I hope Trumpcare doesn't even get enough votes again but if does I can't wait to see it die in the Senate. The mid terms will be a fucking bloodbath if the Republicans manage to push this through.

 

[Aphexian]

who the fuck wants unregulated doctors?!
]

Idiots that treat the word "regulation" as a buzzword and just automatically assume regulation = bad

 

[Crosseyes]

What are Trump supporters thinking? Hmm, from Free Republic:

I don't how there could ever be peaceful coexistence with this side of America. They want me dead and I want them dead.

 

[rjinaz]

What are Trump supporters thinking? Hmm, from Free Republic:













America.

Now I see what people mean when they say both sides can be just as bad and that neogaf is a hive mind. I see conversation like that regularly on neogaf. Cruel, and a disregard for the suffering of others as long as their side wins. Yep. For a second, I thought that's where the quotes came from!

Spoiler

s/ if it wasn't obvious

 

[btrboyev]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

They spin it by saying they (or the government) have no business dictating or providing health insurance.

 

[Ithil]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

"Haha, take that liberals!"

 

[Adam_Vania]

i was always unlucky w the ACA. too poor to afford the plans but too rich to get decent subsidies. in the end i didn't get health care and owe the govt money on top of that. the insurance companies get paid and i went without care, that's fucked up. even if they fuck it up it's already fucked.

 

[Sectorseven]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

Trump has been saying this is just "phase 1" of a multi-phase process, with the good parts coming later.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

If that ends up happening it sounds like a major state rights issue. Thanks for the info.

Yep. It's the reason why the "sell insurance over state lines" proposal is basically a non-starter to anyone who knows the slightest thing about markets.

All that does is kick off a race to the bottom, where insurance companies pit states against each other to reduce regulations on insurance in exchange for moving their businesses into the state. The end result is that you get a de-facto national standard for insurance regulation set by the state with the least restrictive policies.

And if you want an example of exactly this happening, look at the credit card industry. The credit card industry used to be like health care today, where the laws that were applied to transactions between national banks and cardholders were based on the state where the bank was headquartered (which was mostly New York for reasons). Many states had usury laws that capped the interest banks could charge on credit card purchases. A Supreme Court decision changed that, making the transaction subject to the laws where the credit decision was made, something that was much easier to move between states than their actual headquarters. South Dakota dismissed its law against usury and got banks flowing into the state, because so long as they operated out of South Dakota where there was no maximum cap on interest, it meant they could charge whatever rates they wanted to anyone anywhere in the country. (Delaware later followed suit.) And with 2 moves, all those state-by-state usury laws no longer applied to the biggest banks in the country, who now had free reign to charge whatever they wanted in interest.

 

[sangreal]

Trump has been saying this is just "phase 1" of a multi-phase process, with the good parts coming later.

Politico had a quote from a gop senator recently saying something like "why would they work with us on more phases after we gut obama's signature legislation?"

I hope he is right. Frankly, I don't think the democrats should work with the GOP on anything if this goes through, including spending bills. Let the GOP sort it out themselves

 

[Prof. Bathtub]

This is obviously getting traction because too many people cared about the FBI's Russia Investigation, amiright?

 

[kaskade]

Seems really politically stupid to pass this bill, then have the CBO come out shortly after saying just how shitty it is.

 

[AbsolutBro]

What are Trump supporters thinking? Hmm, from Free Republic:

There is a very loud, angry part of me that wants them to have their way. Then, in a generation or so, when most of those people are dead from untreated diabetes and lung cancer and whatever other completely avoidable or treatable diseases, the country will move on. No longer burdened by the weight of those we have to drag kicking and screaming into a progressive future.

 

[Alphahawk]

How many republicans can oppose this and still get this passed? It's a pretty low number right?

 

[sangreal]

How many republicans can oppose this and still get this passed? It's a pretty low number right?

22

23 and it fails

 

[To Far Away Times]

Remember, the GOP is doing this not because they believe it is better, but because it undoes something Obama did, even if that means making almost everyone worse off.

 

[wandering]

How many republicans can oppose this and still get this passed? It's a pretty low number right?

I think it was something like 22 or 23?

 

[rjinaz]

There is a very loud, angry part of me that wants them to have their way. Then, in a generation or so, when most of those people are dead from untreated diabetes and lung cancer and whatever other completely avoidable or treatable diseases, the country will move on. No longer burdened by the weight of those we have to drag kicking and screaming into a progressive future.

You forgot about the part where they have kids and pass on their toxic way of thinking.

Thank god for changing demographics though.

 

[Alphahawk]

22

23 and it fails

Oh, ok. Some people have been saying that even if this passes it will get gutted by the Senste. What's that about? Don't they also have Republican control?

 

[Autodidact]

Oh, ok. Some people have been saying that even if this passes it will get gutted by the Senste. What's that about? Don't they also have Republican control?

The Senate tends to be more moderate because Senators have to win whole states, not deep-red gerrymandered districts.

 

[B-Dubs]

Oh, ok. Some people have been saying that even if this passes it will get gutted by the Senste. What's that about? Don't they also have Republican control?

They don't have enough to get past the filibuster without some Dems helping. If they want to do reconciliation they'll need to change it up and send it back down to the House.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Oh, ok. Some people have been saying that even if this passes it will get gutted by the Senste. What's that about? Don't they also have Republican control?

Generally the Senate Republicans are more moderate than the House Republicans. In addition, the Senate rules currently require 61 Senators to vote in favor of a bill passing, a threshold the Republicans can't meet alone. They would either need Democrat help, or a change to Senate rules.

 

[AbsolutBro]

You forgot about the part where they have kids and pass on their toxic way of thinking.

Thank god for changing demographics though.

Such areas tend to be among the worst in the U.S. for infant mortality rates and with their health care getting even worse, I do not expect much in the way of successful breeding. Essentially, their children will die too young to even have a chance to breed further.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

How does shit like Fox News and idiot Trump supporters spin this as a positive? Serious question. What do they say is positive and good about this bill/Trumpcare? (Besides bs answers like it replaces Obamacare", etc).

Trumpets have a weird masochistic tendency to suck up and deal with anything that will also hurt liberals (and minorities) as well. Like how Paul Joseph Watson posts about eating sushi and drinking milk on Twitter because apparently doing very bad food combinations owns liberals. They're that thrusting a stick into your bike spokes meme personified. They play Yoshimitsu in Soul Calibur, because at least if they are hurting themselves they are hurting the enemy too.

 

[DragoonKain]

I have no idea if this is the case or not, but I feel like the GOP has basically made it their mission to spite liberals.

I picture them all high-fiving and whispering to each other "Can't wait to see those pussy liberal faces now! We win! You lose!"

I really felt this way since I heard Paul Ryan got down on his hands and knees and begged for votes the last time around. Just to stick it to liberals and the Obamas.

All the other anti-science, anti-environment stuff, etc etc. It all appears on the surface to all be done for spite.

This country has been basically turned into a 10 year old spite competition, and the people suffer because of it. That's how I feel anyway.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

You forgot about the part where they have kids and pass on their toxic way of thinking.

Thank god for changing demographics though.

In all likelihood, as long as there is a two party system, you will see young white millennials and more white-passing and/or wealthier minorities, especially Hispanics and some Asians, get more conservative.

 

[naib]

I'm not even sure what my preexisting conditions may be. Is there a way to look this up?
What's "on record"? I've always wondered how accurately this is all tracked nowadays.

I have decent insurance through my work that I'm just now starting to cautiously utilize.
Preemptive checkups, etc. Wanting to make sure I can get a decent rate for life insurance once I'm ready to apply for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ2msARQsKU