Fenderputty
Banned
The cute libertarian junior will bring absolutely nothing to this thread discussion, peeps.
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US House votes to adopt AHCA (Republican health care); bill moves to Senate
- Thread starter CrocMother
- Start date
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's like saying people shouldn't be forced to insure their car. People should absolutely be forced, a grown educated person cost an incredible amount of money to create falling into poverty or dying because of medical bills does no one a favour.
If it's not clear, single payer healthcare is ultimately cheaper.
Lol this. Atlanta has too much potential.
That wasn't your original point. But either way. Lots of jobs don't offer benefits and if they do a lot of them aren't good.
That said. You said you wanted this to go back to how it was. That means people with illnesses and disabilities get fucked over.
With this. They can deny you for a preexisting condition. So yea this bill is shit and you only "liked" it because you thought it was a starting point for you not to be forced to get insurance. Even though this fucks over millions of people. Even the people you say deserve assistance. Something the ACA took care of.
StopMakingSense
Member
If you are ignorant enough to not understand how 'get a job' is not an answer to this countries' healthcare problems, then sure, I will assume things about you.
I'm a cancer survivor. I rely on Obamacare to run my small business and support my wife.
What discussion? As soon as another opinion arrives, you pile-on and start throwing ad hominem at people. This is why you lost in November.
TheOctodad
Member
How about offering something of substance instead of just responding with hostility?
Fenderputty
Banned
Hopefully the "fuck off" sealed the alts fate
What am I to assume when you come off as a libertarian toddler?
Back up your positions with reason.
You have yet to do this.
Feel free to pivot and not talk about the precariat, by the by. I know it breaks your narrative, so "fucking off" is probably a better hill to stand on.
Nickel and dime shit on the front end and it's what happens.
Preventative care, consultations, basic stuff beforehand is exponentially cheaper than waiting for everything to go to shit in the ER.
It's not often something is morally reprehensible and financially unsound but here we are.
Also gonna point out: the reason universal healthcare works is because when the government is the sole payer for health care, you basically have to meet their prices or you don't do business in that country because you can only sell drugs to a tiny boutique private insurance market, instead of the massive public health one. This drives prices down, because you have to drive prices down to outbid other companies that want to make a similar drug. aka, capitalist competition.
Also gonna point out: moving healthcare to the government instead of the employer allows small business owners and even bigger ones to hire more people for more hours because they don't have to handle the overhead of per-employer insurance. Companies can get kicked off insurance if an employee or an employee's spouse gets a really expensive sickness. By the way, employer-based healthcare didn't even start to be a thing until the mid-20th century.
Also gonna point out: opting out of healthcare means you're more expensive to treat and cure down the line. Preventative care is way cheaper than treatment. You're never saving money, merely just pushing it down the road.
Psychoward
Banned
And when the rates are too high for your disability you...? Die? Or go so far in to debt that you may as well be referred to as an indentured servant. Because right now I'm a student who needs several medications that are overpriced by thousands of dollars, I can't afford private health insurance because I don't have a degree yet so all of the jobs I've held don't make enough money to even be considered a living wage,let alone with Healthcare thrown on top of it.
My saving grace is that thanks to Obamacare I can still be covered by my mom's plan that she gets for being a Nursing professor.
If I was to lose that ability and my mom's rates went up if this bill passes I'm basically up shit creek. Not to mention the student loans I have to pay that Republicans are intent on increasing. That I need to pay because I need a degree to have a job that can cover my well above average Healthcare needs.
Private companies will always charge the most they can for a drug, there's no reason why some of my pills or injections rake up several thousand dollars at the end of the day but they do because private companies driving factor is greed in a capitalist society. My dad works for Merck and even he's said as much,the cost of the medicine they sell is absurdly high. Without safeguards for healthcare you're literally dooming people to die.
Libertarian economics do not work in reality if you have any basic sympathy so stop embarrassing yourself please.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Have better opinions then
If you can't support your stance on others and resort to saying "this is why you lost in November"
You just need to move on because you've moved the goalposts once people punched holes in your paper thin argument.
No one is forcing you to get health insurance in this country so please do us a favor and go find your own bullshit island to live (and die) on. Seems like you'd be much happier that way.
Literally no counters were made. The whole discussion, on both ends (mine included), was just tossing out talking points.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
be the change you wish to see in the world
I challenged your empty remarks on jobs for health benefits.
People get healthcare via full-time employment, usually.
Trends are decoupling people from full-time into part-time through no action of the person willing this along.
Try again with the pivots.
Why do you believe the government should be in charge of determining who is disabled enough to live and who is not disabled enough and should be allowed to die?
Flying Toaster
Member
I am curious what happens when republicans go after Medicare next.
We lost because people are fine with bigoted politicians and disastrous policy so long as politicians suck them off and tell them they're the center of the universe.
It really is terrible. Even if this doesn't amount to anything (which seems hopelessly optimistic), it still shows how willing House Republicans are to fuck us.
Indirect suicide, goddamn idiots.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
http://www.consumerreports.org/personal-bankruptcy/how-the-aca-drove-down-personal-bankruptcy/
Before was not better. Not even a little bit. You could try being a better human though.
True, Trump was very respectful of differing opinions and never engaged in ad hominem.
Psychoward
Banned
I've worked jobs where they wouldn't let anyone work over 39 hours a week because they didn't want to give health benefits. There are plenty of companies that do the same thing. Full-time hours and hard work for minimum wage below the living wage and no health insurance. I sure do love right economics.
Good thing I'm not Trump.
Whoosh.
Who lost? It's not like anyone supporting your views won. It's not a team sport and if it was nobody was supporting what you are saying here.
You just support him.
They all hate a black man so much that they'll commit suicide. That's how the bad the racism is in this country.
I did, yes.
Psychoward
Banned
I've posted out long replies to your points from personal experience as a transplant patient, with a mom who was a nurse for several decades and then a nursing professor at Rutgers and a father who's worked for pharmaceutical companies since he graduated from an Ivy, will you quote me at least
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Then your opinion is entirely worthless.
Yep. I wasn't even making this point: I'm more concerned about technological precarity, but your point also unfolds.
In a jobs cult culture that demands everyone have full-time jobs or else they will suffer will simply see an expansion of suffrage in the future.
Too bad our libertarian friend can't even see this. If only getting jobs that cover you were so simple. I mean, why would we even need the ACA if it were just so easy?
A high schooler should be able to see the depths of logic being broken here with restoration ideas to what was, here.
Me too, I haven't felt this livid since Trump got elected. The amount of hypocrisy and selfishness going into this is astounding.
As a young, healthy (for now) person with no pre-existing conditions (AKA a unicorn), I might start saving money on my insurance premiums soon. I'm going to try and donate my savings. Anyone know of a charity that will specifically help sick individuals with their insurance premiums?
7DollarHagane
Banned
Id like to know more about all of this but it seems like its impossible to find anything that doesnt say this is the greatest thing ever or this is the worst thing ever.
Why do some people say obamacare was failing?
Why do some people say majority of people paid the pebalty vs enrolling in healthcare?
Why do some people say there were areas in the country where there was only one choice or no providers for healthcare in some areas of the country?
Why do some people say this will lead to x million people dying?
Why do some people say that this is cruel or wrong?
Why do some people say obamacare was failing?
Why do some people say majority of people paid the pebalty vs enrolling in healthcare?
Why do some people say there were areas in the country where there was only one choice or no providers for healthcare in some areas of the country?
Why do some people say this will lead to x million people dying?
Why do some people say that this is cruel or wrong?
Because I'm not part of the hivemind? This is /pol/ levels of stupidity.
Human Resources
Member
GOP Congress got so tired of looking for death panels they went ahead and formed one themselves.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
No because you're a trump supporter. You know nothing.
It's because your talking points are gutter trash, if I can be honest.
I'll ask again: if getting jobs to get health care was so easy, why did we need the ACA and why is full-time employment dissolving?
Don't pivot. Actually deliver substance for once in this thread.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
StopMakingSense
Member
Should I have to give up my business just because I had cancer 10 years ago? What is your solution to people like me?
What's the deal with you supporting a white supremacist and admitted sex offender?
You just whined about people not being open to different points of view and engaging in ad hominem as a terrible thing and then admitted you support the patron saint of such.
TheOctodad
Member
I don't think you opinion is worthless.
That said, I don't think you've really made any point or any opinion clear. You just keep insulting people.
People have responded to you with counters, but you claim they aren't and are just opinions.
And then you only respond to posts that don't challenge you directly.
I don't think you're helping your case much. Mind telling me why you decided to make your first series of posts in this thread and what you hope to achieve?
Psychoward
Banned
"We're looking in to it"
Then there's no difference