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US military stood by and allowed genocide in South Korea in 50's.

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It is not easy to judge these events based on the situations on the ground at the time. But I'm glad the truth is coming out.
capt.04bd472801794e88bd30f404e85f6027.korea_mass_executions_us_ny326.jpg

In this photograph taken by the U.S. Army in April 1951, provided by the U.S. National Archives, South Korean troops shoot political prisoners near Daegu, South Korea. The South Korean government's Truth and Reconciliation Commission is investigating such mass political executions during the Korean War, and the U.S. military's connection with them.
capt.3e6f15c20aba4425aeed5026ccc12532.korea_mass_executions_us_ny325.jpg

This photograph by the U.S. Army, provided by the U.S. National Archives in College Park, Md. on Monday, May 5, 2008, is one of a series of declassified images depicting the summary execution of South Korean political prisoners by the South Korean military at Daejeon, South Korea, over three days in July 1950. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Korea, which estimates that up to 7,000 were killed at Daejeon alone, is investigating this and other mass killings in South Korea in 1950 and 1951.

The past is the past . . . we need to learn from it and move on.



By CHARLES J. HANLEY and JAE-SOON CHANG, Associated Press Writers
Sun Jul 6, 1:42 PM ET

SEOUL, South Korea - The American colonel, troubled by what he was hearing, tried to stall at first. But the declassified record shows he finally told his South Korean counterpart it "would be permitted" to machine-gun 3,500 political prisoners, to keep them from joining approaching enemy forces.

In the early days of the Korean War, other American officers observed, photographed and confidentially reported on such wholesale executions by their South Korean ally, a secretive slaughter believed to have killed 100,000 or more leftists and supposed sympathizers, usually without charge or trial, in a few weeks in mid-1950.

Extensive archival research by The Associated Press has found no indication Far East commander Gen. Douglas MacArthur took action to stem the summary mass killing, knowledge of which reached top levels of the Pentagon and State Department in Washington, where it was classified "secret" and filed away.

Now, a half-century later, the South Korean government's Truth and Reconciliation Commission is investigating what happened in that summer of terror, a political bloodbath largely hidden from history, unlike the communist invaders' executions of southern rightists, which were widely publicized and denounced at the time.

In the now-declassified record at the U.S. National Archives and other repositories, the Korean investigators will find an ambivalent U.S. attitude in 1950 — at times hands-off, at times disapproving.

"The most important thing is that they did not stop the executions," historian Jung Byung-joon, a member of the 2-year-old commission, said of the Americans. "They were at the crime scene, and took pictures and wrote reports."

They took pictures in July 1950 at the slaughter of dozens of men at one huge killing field outside the central city of Daejeon. Between 3,000 and 7,000 South Koreans are believed to have been shot there by their own military and police, and dumped into mass graves, said Kim Dong-choon, the commission member overseeing the investigation of these government killings.

The bones of Koh Chung-ryol's father are there somewhere, and the 57-year-old woman believes South Koreans alone are not to blame.

"Although we can't present concrete evidence, we bereaved families believe the United States has some responsibility for this," she told the AP, as she visited one of the burial sites in the quiet Sannae valley.

Frank Winslow, a military adviser at Daejeon in those desperate days long ago, is one American who feels otherwise.

The Koreans were responsible for their own actions, said the retired Army lieutenant colonel, 81. "The Koreans were sovereign. To me, there was never any question that the Koreans were in charge," he said in a telephone interview from his home in Bellingham, Wash.

The brutal, hurried elimination of tens of thousands of their countrymen, subject of a May 19 AP report, was the climax to a years-long campaign by South Korea's right-wing leaders.

In 1947, two years after Washington and Moscow divided Korea into southern and northern halves, a U.S. military government declared the Korean Labor Party, the southern communists, to be illegal. President Syngman Rhee's southern regime, gaining sovereignty in 1948, suppressed all leftist political activity, put down a guerrilla uprising and held up to 30,000 political prisoners by the time communist North Korea invaded on June 25, 1950.

As war broke out, southern authorities also rounded up members of the 300,000-strong National Guidance Alliance, a "re-education" body to which they had assigned leftist sympathizers, and whose membership quotas also were filled by illiterate peasants lured by promises of jobs and other benefits.

Commission investigators, extrapolating from initial evidence and surveys of family survivors, believe most alliance members were killed in the wave of executions.

On June 29, 1950, as the southern army and its U.S. advisers retreated southward, reports from Seoul said the conquering northerners had emptied the southern capital's prisons, and ex-inmates were reinforcing the new occupation regime.

In a confidential narrative he later wrote for Army historians, Lt. Col. Rollins S. Emmerich, a senior U.S. adviser, described what then happened in the southern port city of Busan, formerly known as Pusan.

Emmerich was told by a subordinate that a South Korean regimental commander, determined to keep Busan's political prisoners from joining the enemy, planned "to execute some 3500 suspected peace time Communists, locked up in the local prison," according to the declassified 78-page narrative, first uncovered by the newspaper Busan Ilbo at the U.S. National Archives.

Emmerich wrote that he summoned the Korean, Col. Kim Chong-won, and told him the enemy would not reach Busan in a few days as Kim feared, and that "atrocities could not be condoned."

But the American then indicated conditional acceptance of the plan.

"Colonel Kim promised not to execute the prisoners until the situation became more critical," wrote Emmerich, who died in 1986. "Colonel Kim was told that if the enemy did arrive to the outskirts of (Busan) he would be permitted to open the gates of the prison and shoot the prisoners with machine guns."

This passage, omitted from the published Army history, is the first documentation unearthed showing advance sanction by the U.S. military for such killings.

"I think his (Emmerich's) word is so significant," said Park Myung-lim, a South Korean historian of the war and adviser to the investigative commission.

As that summer wore on, and the invaders pressed their attack on the southern zone, Busan-area prisoners were shot by the hundreds, Korean and foreign witnesses later said.

Emmerich wrote that soon after his session with Kim, he met with South Korean officials in Daegu, 55 miles north of Busan, and persuaded them "at that time" not to execute 4,500 prisoners immediately, as planned. Within weeks, hundreds were being executed in the Daegu area.

The bloody anticommunist purge, begun immediately after the invasion, is believed by the fall of 1950 to have filled some 150 mass graves in secluded spots stretching to the peninsula's southernmost counties. Commissioner Kim said the commission's estimate of 100,000 dead is "very conservative." The commission later this month will resume excavating massacre sites, after having recovered remains of more than 400 people at four sites last year.

The AP has extensively researched U.S. military and diplomatic archives from the Korean War in recent years, at times relying on once-secret documents it obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests and declassification reviews. The declassified U.S. record and other sources offer further glimpses of the mass killings.

A North Korean newspaper said 1,000 prisoners were slain in Incheon, just west of Seoul, in late June 1950 — a report partly corroborated by a declassified U.S. Eighth Army document of July 1950 saying "400 Communists" had been killed in Incheon. The North Korean report claimed a U.S. military adviser had given the order.

As the front moved south, in July's first days, Air Force intelligence officer Donald Nichols witnessed and photographed the shooting of an estimated 1,800 prisoners in Suwon, 20 miles south of Seoul, Nichols reported in a little-noted memoir in 1981, a decade before his death.

Around the same time, farther south, the Daejeon killings began.

Winslow recalled he declined an invitation to what a senior officer called the "turkey shoot" outside the city, but other U.S. officers did attend, taking grisly photos of the human slaughter that would be kept classified for a half-century.

Journalist Alan Winnington, of the British communist Daily Worker newspaper, entered Daejeon with North Korean troops after July 20 and reported that the killings were carried out for three days in early July and two or three days in mid-July.

He wrote that his witnesses claimed jeeploads of American officers "supervised the butchery." Secret CIA and Army intelligence communications reported on the Daejeon and Suwon killings as early as July 3, but said nothing about the U.S. presence or about any U.S. oversight.

In mid-August, MacArthur, in Tokyo, learned of the mass shooting of 200 to 300 people near Daegu, including women and a 12- or 13-year-old girl. A top-secret Army report from Korea, uncovered by AP research, told of the "extreme cruelty" of the South Korean military policemen. The bodies fell into a ravine, where hours later some "were still alive and moaning," wrote a U.S. military policeman who happened on the scene.

Although MacArthur had command of South Korean forces from early in the war, he took no action on this report, other than to refer it to John J. Muccio, U.S. ambassador in South Korea. Muccio later wrote that he urged South Korean officials to stage executions humanely and only after due process of law.

The AP found that during this same period, on Aug. 15, Brig. Gen. Francis W. Farrell, chief U.S. military adviser to the South Koreans, recommended the U.S. command investigate the executions. There was no sign such an inquiry was conducted. A month later, the Daejeon execution photos were sent to the Pentagon in Washington, with a U.S. colonel's report that the South Koreans had killed "thousands" of political prisoners.

The declassified record shows an equivocal U.S. attitude continuing into the fall, when Seoul was retaken and South Korean forces began shooting residents who collaborated with the northern occupiers.

When Washington's British allies protested, Dean Rusk, assistant secretary of state, told them U.S. commanders were doing "everything they can to curb such atrocities," according to a Rusk memo of Oct. 28, 1950.

But on Dec. 19, W.J. Sebald, State Department liaison to MacArthur, cabled Secretary of State Dean Acheson to say MacArthur's command viewed the killings as a South Korean "internal matter" and had "refrained from taking any action."

It was the British who took action, according to news reports at the time. On Dec. 7, in occupied North Korea, British officers saved 21 civilians lined up to be shot, by threatening to shoot the South Korean officer responsible. Later that month, British troops seized "Execution Hill," outside Seoul, to block further mass killings there.

To quiet the protests, the South Koreans barred journalists from execution sites and the State Department told diplomats to avoid commenting on atrocity reports. Earlier, the U.S. Embassy in London had denounced as "fabrication" Winnington's Daily Worker reporting on the Daejeon slaughter. The Army eventually blamed all the thousands of Daejeon deaths on the North Koreans, who in fact had carried out executions of rightists there and elsewhere.

An American historian of the Korean War, the University of Chicago's Bruce Cumings, sees a share of U.S. guilt in what happened in 1950.

"After the fact — with thousands murdered — the U.S. not only did nothing, but covered up the Daejeon massacres," he said.

Another Korean War scholar, Allan R. Millett, an emeritus Ohio State professor, is doubtful. "I'm not sure there's enough evidence to pin culpability on these guys," he said, referring to the advisers and other Americans.

The swiftness and nationwide nature of the 1950 roundups and mass killings point to orders from the top, President Rhee and his security chiefs, Korean historians say. Those officials are long dead, and Korean documentary evidence is scarce.

To piece together a fuller story, investigators of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission will sift through tens of thousands of pages of declassified U.S. documents.

The commission's mandate extends to at least 2010, and its president, historian Ahn Byung-ook, expects to turn then to Washington for help in finding the truth.

"Our plan is that when we complete our investigation of cases involving the U.S. Army, we'll make an overall recommendation, a request to the U.S. government to conduct an overall investigation," he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080706...ecutions_us;_ylt=Ag.aEbQ8Guk_YwH271b35lCs0NUE
 

quaere

Member
"I'll never apologize for the United States. Ever. I don't care what the facts are"

- George H.W. Bush

Official policy of all American politicians, past and present. It's a shame this happened, as is the case in many other incidents, but there's no reason to dig it up as nothing will come of it.
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
The US was totally newb back then. They didn't get their mad all up in yo koolaid skills till the 70s at the earliest.
 
aswedc said:
It's a shame this happened, as is the case in many other incidents, but there's no reason to dig it up as nothing will come of it.

Bullshit. Perhaps it will instill some humility in some people that only see things in fictional black & white. People that say stupid things like this :

"I'll never apologize for the United States. Ever. I don't care what the facts are"

- George H.W. Bush
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
"The most important thing is that they did not stop the executions," historian Jung Byung-joon, a member of the 2-year-old commission, said of the Americans. "They were at the crime scene, and took pictures and wrote reports."

While yes they should have stopped them, I love how the blame falls on the US for not stopping someone else in their country from doing something...
 
Blackace said:
While yes they should have stopped them, I love how the blame falls on the US for not stopping someone else in their country from doing something...
Well that statement does not apportion the blame whereas your statement seems to imply that he is placing all the blame on the US.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
speculawyer said:
Well that statement does not apportion the blame whereas your statement seems to imply that he is placing all the blame on the US.

how does my statement imply the amount of blame anymore than Jung Byung-joon's?
 

JimmyV

Banned
aswedc said:
"I'll never apologize for the United States. Ever. I don't care what the facts are"

- George H.W. Bush

Official policy of all American politicians, past and present. It's a shame this happened, as is the case in many other incidents, but there's no reason to dig it up as nothing will come of it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Reagan apologized for what we did to the Japanese during WWII.......
 

zoku88

Member
jimmbow said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but Reagan apologized for what we did to the Japanese during WWII.......
I don't know if it was Reagan, but it was more like, there was money given to the victims of the internment camp, but I don't think there was actually a public apology. I don't remember, though.
 

JimmyV

Banned
Blackace said:
While yes they should have stopped them, I love how the blame falls on the US for not stopping someone else in their country from doing something...



If find it humorous though that when we try to stop shit, we get hell for it. We dont, we get hell for it. Its a shame we're in a loose loose situation.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
I'm sure that this genocide wasn't the first or the last the U.S. stood by and watched go down...
 

Karakand

Member
Blackace said:
While yes they should have stopped them, I love how the blame falls on the US for not stopping someone else in their country from doing something...
Not only that, but that it's the "most important thing" that they didn't.
 
In the early days of the Korean War, other American officers observed, photographed and confidentially reported on such wholesale executions by their South Korean ally, a secretive slaughter believed to have killed 100,000 or more leftists and supposed sympathizers, usually without charge or trial, in a few weeks in mid-1950.

At least 100 000 wasted bullets that could have been used against advancing North Korean/Chinese troops.
 
Blackace said:
how does my statement imply the amount of blame anymore than Jung Byung-joon's?
Well he didn't mention blame.

I love how the blame falls on the US for not stopping someone else in their country from doing something...
"The" blame kinda implies blame is a single thing. I certainly agree that the majority of blame goes on the people that pulled the trigger. But I think there is some blame in standing by and letting it happen . . . and covering it up for 50 years.

But as I indicated in my first sentence, it is very hard to judge with limited facts and 50 years later. If these are all people that were about to go to the other side and then try to kill you . . . well . . . not quite self-defense but . . . pre-emptive self-defense?
 
Instigator said:
At least 100 000 wasted bullets that could have been used against advancing North Korean/Chinese troops.
Well . . . I think they would say they useds those bullets very effectively against that enemy.
 
speculawyer said:
Well . . . I think they would say they useds those bullets very effectively against that enemy.

Nazis figured out a more effective way of dealing with a perceived enemy from within while keeping actual bullets for the front. They also found out those kinds of execution affected the morale of soldiers carrying them out so they had to find another way to keep their soldiers in top shape.

Playing devil's advocate aside, South Korea went overboard no matter the method of execution.
 

NH Apache

Banned
Blackace said:
While yes they should have stopped them, I love how the blame falls on the US for not stopping someone else in their country from doing something...


Before I saw your post, I was going to write exactly this.

This sucks though. This is a bad, bad situation all around.


Edit:
"The most important thing is that they did not stop the executions," historian Jung Byung-joon, a member of the 2-year-old commission, said of the Americans. "They were at the crime scene, and took pictures and wrote reports."

speculawyer said:
Well he didn't mention blame.

However, it does imply just that. "The most important thing is that they did not stop the executions..." Rather than saying that the the most important thing was that the Koreans murdered thousands, it directly implies that it was more important that the Americans did not prevent the Koreans from killing these people.

Holy shit at 100,000 people. How did we not know about 100,000 people disappearing?
 

Kettch

Member
However, it does imply just that. "The most important thing is that they did not stop the executions..." Rather than saying that the the most important thing was that the Koreans murdered thousands, it directly implies that it was more important that the Americans did not prevent the Koreans from killing these people.

I think we'd probably need to see the context of this quote, before making any judgments on what he was implying. He could very well have been speaking solely about what was most important about American involvement, and not what was most important about the executions.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
At least we weren't imposing our tyrannical will on other countries actions.

The US is boned no matter what we do.
 

methos75

Banned
Its not the US to Blame here, its the UN. The US was deployed to Korea by the UN and under its Jurisdiction at that time, any attempts to stop the South Koreans from doing this act would of had to be ordered by the UN. I hate it when we get blamed for stuff just because we were there, like this. Sure we were present, but the actual UN leadership needed to stop this was not, so the troops had no power over the Koreans at all.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
speculawyer said:
Well he didn't mention blame.


"The" blame kinda implies blame is a single thing. I certainly agree that the majority of blame goes on the people that pulled the trigger. But I think there is some blame in standing by and letting it happen . . . and covering it up for 50 years.

But as I indicated in my first sentence, it is very hard to judge with limited facts and 50 years later. If these are all people that were about to go to the other side and then try to kill you . . . well . . . not quite self-defense but . . . pre-emptive self-defense?

Sure there is some blame, but I see it as passing the buck. In a much, much lesser extent it would be like blaming the UK for the bomb in Nagasaki.

Even today, with the shitty war that the US started in Iraq, it had allies and help starting the war. But the US takes all of the blame for it.
 
Instigator said:
Nazis figured out a more effective way of dealing with a perceived enemy from within while keeping actual bullets for the front. They also found out those kinds of execution affected the morale of soldiers carrying them out so they had to find another way to keep their soldiers in top shape..
Ouch!

You just can't match the efficiency of Germany. :lol
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Instigator said:
Playing devil's advocate aside, South Korea went overboard no matter the method of execution.

No doubt about that. No defending that.
 
Blackace said:
Even today, with the shitty war that the US started in Iraq, it had allies and help starting the war. But the US takes all of the blame for it.
Well . . . we probably deserve most of the blame . . . some of the other countries were sort of blackmailed into being part of the alliance. Both carrots (we'll help you pay for your commitment) and sticks (if you don't help us, our trade relationship may change) were used.

But my opinion of Tony Blair has gone way way down. He deserves a lot more blame than I initially thought.

Edit: Of course, we deserve credit too . . . although the Iraq war cost too much in blood and money, getting rid of Saddam was good.
 
methos75 said:
Its not the US to Blame here, its the UN. The US was deployed to Korea by the UN and under its Jurisdiction at that time, any attempts to stop the South Koreans from doing this act would of had to be ordered by the UN. I hate it when we get blamed for stuff just because we were there, like this. Sure we were present, but the actual UN leadership needed to stop this was not, so the troops had no power over the Koreans at all.
Did the UN even know this was happening?

I'm certainly not much of a historian, but this is the first I've heard of this sad event.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
speculawyer said:
Well . . . we probably deserve most of the blame . . . some of the other countries were sort of blackmailed into being part of the alliance. Both carrots (we'll help you pay for your commitment) and sticks (if you don't help us, our trade relationship may change) were used.

But my opinion of Tony Blair has gone way way down. He deserves a lot more blame than I initially thought.

The UK and Aus are pretty guilty in mind.

I think the US needs to shoulder the blame for things like the war in Iraq, dropping the A-Bomb, things that they did. Not for things they didn't do, like killing these 100,000 people.
 

methos75

Banned
speculawyer said:
Did the UN even know this was happening?

I'm certainly not much of a historian, but this is the first I've heard of this sad event.


I am sure someone within the UN did, but like the US, hid it. Back then the US was much much more UN driven, and we didn't fart without informing them first.
 
jimmbow said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but Reagan apologized for what we did to the Japanese during WWII.......

Reagan never apologized to the 'Japanese' for WW2 but he did apologize to AMERICANS (of Japanese descent) for their treatment during WW2. Big diff.
 

JimmyV

Banned
juicyfruitas said:
Reagan never apologized to the 'Japanese' for WW2 but he did apologize to AMERICANS (of Japanese descent) for their treatment during WW2. Big diff.


Well I'd only assume people knew thats what I meant.......because any president dumb enough to apologize to the Japanese directly(the country) for anything during WWII *cough*nuke*cough* deserves a bullet in the head

.....but thats for another thread I guess.....
 
Blackace said:
I think the US needs to shoulder the blame for things like the war in Iraq, dropping the A-Bomb, things that they did. Not for things they didn't do, like killing these 100,000 people.
Did we do something wrong?
 
speculawyer said:
"The" blame kinda implies blame is a single thing. I certainly agree that the majority of blame goes on the people that pulled the trigger.

And yet you created the thread with the title implying this was our fault. Was this a terrible act? Absolutely. But this is for the Koreans to come to terms with, not to point the finger at America and go "but you should have prevented us from being monsters!"
 

Leopold

Member
speculawyer said:
Did the UN even know this was happening?

I'm certainly not much of a historian, but this is the first I've heard of this sad event.


US Forces were the head of the UN taskforce, they were supposed to report the events.
 
AndersTheSwede said:
And yet you created the thread with the title implying this was our fault.

All our fault? WTF? I think "stood by and allowed" is a LOT different than "committed" or "recommended" or even "condoned".

Did you know that if someone is drowning and you stand by and allow them to drown, you have commited no crime in the USA?
 

Flynn

Member
icarus-daedelus said:
When we invade a country, people complain. When we stand by as genocide occurs in said country, people complain.

God dammit, people. Can't the US ever do right in your eyes?!

Very, very funny. In a depressing, defeatist sort of way.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Illuminati said:
Did we do something wrong?

yeah Nagasaki was criminal, but was that 5 years before this topic so don't want to derail this thread.
 

btkadams

Member
how bout we focus on the genocide happening around the world NOW, not something that happened 50 years ago during the korean/cold war where everyone was doing crazy shit to keep alive.
 
methos75 said:
Its not the US to Blame here, its the UN. The US was deployed to Korea by the UN and under its Jurisdiction at that time, any attempts to stop the South Koreans from doing this act would of had to be ordered by the UN. I hate it when we get blamed for stuff just because we were there, like this. Sure we were present, but the actual UN leadership needed to stop this was not, so the troops had no power over the Koreans at all.

you are wrong.
When the north attacked the south, it's the US that called on the UN to use force against North Korea. If it wasn't for USSR boycotting the security council (they were boycotting the UN for recognising Chiang Kai-shek’s government in Taiwan as the official government for China), the resolution would have been vetoed.

And the US would have never let South Korea fall into the hands of communism.

The UN forces were mainly american (90% of all army personnel, 93% of all air power and 86% of all naval power for the Korean War had come from the US) and were even commanded by Douglas MacArthur.

Stop pretending that any orders had to come from the UN because it's just bullshits.
The UN isn't an independent organization. It does what its members want to do. In this case, it did what the US wanted to do. If they wanted to stop it, they could have.

I'm not saying all the blames are on the US but they share responsability in this genocide.
 

Walshicus

Member
btkadams said:
how bout we focus on the genocide happening around the world NOW, not something that happened 50 years ago during the korean/cold war where everyone was doing crazy shit to keep alive.
Novus dies amo ut similis priscus dies... Perceptum priscus dies vel revolvus priscus dies.
 
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