BlackGoku03
Member
The spinning in the comments are making my head dizzy.
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US Presidential Foreign Policy Debate |OT| Please proceed, governor
- Thread starter eBay Huckster
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The spinning in the comments are making my head dizzy.
There are more than you people think there are.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
There is a continuum of Mitt Romneys between 2008 and 2012.
I thought Romney didn't change, per say. He is all positions at once, but also none of those positions you accuse him of. He's Shrodinger's candidate if you will.
ElectricBlue187
Member
there have been many new versions and service packs
heliosRAzi
Banned
Mitt Romney is the nexus of a universal conundrum. Every 24 hours, Romney is replaced by a Romney from another universe.
I hear you man, we independents need to stick together.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/18/mitt-romney-gallup-poll_n_1979318.html
Please tell me this is bullshit.
Please tell me this is bullshit.
It's an outlier. No one else shows this, everyone else has a tie or O+2
Well, if it's an accurate picture of the country, literally every other poll out of like 30 this week is wrong, so.
Gallup is a pretty big outlier at this point. The aggregate of polling has the race tied or even possibly Obama up slightly (like 1 point).
What's also interesting is that gallup's internals have had Obama winning every single region of the US but the south where he's down 20+ points. Well, he was never going to win the south anyway.
TheNatural
My Member!
They have a 'likely' vs. 'registered' voters thing there. How they decide likely is beyond me. Also someone posted this last week, and the huge advantage comes in the South for Romney - Obama is up everywhere else.
methane47
Member
But every other country knows the difference?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
As we said when this came out, they fucked something up in their likely voters formulation.
It's probably a tribal thing. Obama is Luo, a tribe that comprises only 10% of the population and which has never held the Kenyan presidency.
Open Source
Banned
Technically, no, but we use cruisers, frigates, and plenty of other ships whose purpose is battle.
The Democrats should be very familiar with this as they had pictures of them as backdrop at their convention. Oh wait, they had pictures of a foreign navy and thought it was ours.
This may be the worst post you've ever made. Did you know that words have meanings?
You must not have read very many of his posts.
It's like he never watched Under Siege.
I don't know about you, but I would never vote for someone who hasn't watched that movie.
eBay Huckster
Member
The technical meaning here is the only relevant one to the ships' classifications.
Open Source
Banned
Not when you are using "battleships" as a general reference to ships the Navy uses to fight. Man, you people are seriously disconnected from the way the average person thinks.
(By the way, I was in the Navy and completely understand the name and purpose of every ship - and boat - and amphibious vehicle - in the fleet.)
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
How many does that make now, 14?
eBay Huckster
Member
Are you sure we're disconnected with the average person and that you're not just severely underestimating the ability of a layman to know the difference between ship classifications?
That whole line of attack has zero merit in it if you actually listen to what Obama said.
He just happened to manage to show his ignorance on the subject matter, which is funny more than anything.
It also manage (inadvertently) shed a light on how silly that counting ship number is, as the last time we built battleships was during World War 2.
Is anyone seriously claiming that we need a navy the size we had in World War 2?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There really isn't anything to talk about in this election is there? Everyone's just going in circles over meaningless distinctions between "act of terror" and 'blaming it on the video,' etc. etc.
I think a lot of the Obama people need to prepare themselves for the fact that he could in fact lose. Gallup is not in line with all the others, but it's clear Romney has the momentum.
Considering how good Obama was in 2008 I am surprised at how bad he looks now. I understand you cant run on change when you're the incumbent. I get that Romney isnt being very specific. But Binders, Big Bird and Bayonets? Really? Oh and Romnesia. Cant forget that gem. Is he running for class president?
I think the average person understands the idea that an aircraft carrier is worth more points than a cruiser, and that's all that's really important to the talking point here, no?
Open Source
Banned
Romney said the Navy does not have enough ships to carry out its mission - true. Did he say we needed as many ships as we had in WW2? No - we had over 6,000 then. He said we need a little over 300. He said "ships" - not battleships. This includes frigates, cruisers, and aircraft carriers, among other things.
But please explain why you know better than the Navy how many ships they need, and why they are stupid for counting them. I'm sure the admirals could benefit from your wisdom.
But no, Ryan is stupid for saying "battleships" instead of ships.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Yes? That's Mitt's whole premise. What else are we going to do with all the money we save from repealing Obamacare? We're gunna fight nazis!
eBay Huckster
Member
Yeah, the only thing we should be getting out of this argument specifically is "Ryan is a nitwit"
vas_a_morir
Banned
U got trolled bro
Ignoring the rest of your post, yes, this is true. People look at 538 and go "oh, Obama's at 70%, that's basically a guarantee that he wins." No, that's only slightly better than a 2/3 chance of winning. Out of 3 elections where Silver gives someone a 70% chance of winning, he should be wrong approximately once.
I'm not going to suggest that people go all Diablos and start flipping out about everything, but while Obama is clearly ahead, there are no guarantees here.
Why are you conflating some of the twitter universe with Obama himself? From what I saw the binders thing was picked up by social media immediately, and what little Obama's campaign actually picked up on it was just to capitalize on what people apparently already had done.
For Big Bird how in fuck's name is this a dig on Obama? I'm really kind of appalled at the spin it takes to do that. Romney has, as even you are saying, given almost no specificity to his plan. He keeps getting asked what exactly he's going to do to pay for his plan, and the only thing he's come up with is cutting PBS and Big Bird. If anyone is class clowning here it's Romney.
Yes the bayonets attack was pretty obviously planned, and likely used to take advantage of social media. They knew social media would take hold of it. But it is also a good attack in that it shows Romney's attacks lack real substance. You can't just point to numbers of ships and try and fool the electorate into thinking oh well, we need more ships. Things are more complex than that.
And Romnesia? I think that's good marketing and campaigning, again. He came up with a word to encapsulate Romney's flip flopping. It's not like Romney's campaign is immune to silly marketing mumbo jumbo "Obamaloney" and "You didn't build that." Hell, the republicans tried to clown and stick the PPACA with the Obamacare label. Sure it's turned around now, but you know exactly what they were trying to do.
Romney said we had less ships now than in any time since 1916, that's a stupid metric.
It's also a dishonest one, even under Romney plan, we still going to have the lowest number of ships since forever.
If Romney think that Obama's defense budget doesn't have enough ships in it, he should make that case seriously.
Dude Abides
Banned
Do you have a source for the bolded? I can't find anything via google suggesting that the Navy has requested more ships and been denied.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Yeah, but Romney is Kerry in this scenario.
That aside, what is this mission the Navy needs 600 (since Romney's said he'll double the amount the Navy actually needs) ships for? The needless two front war readiness strategy?
SnakeswithLasers
Member
That's not exactly how those percentages work. It's not saying there is a coin toss that is weighted at 70%; it's saying that Obama wins today--but there is a 30% chance that something happens to change the drift toward Romney between now and the election.
Take Ohio: That state is 70% Obama right now. That doesn't mean that if the election is held today in 'Mirror Universe Ohio' 10 times, Romney wins 3 of those. It means: Obama wins Ohio today. But if you drag things out, it's solid enough that there is only a 30% chance that something happens to drift the state red--and the longer the status quo goes, the more solid that number becomes.
At least that is how I've been lead to understand.
That's the forecast vs now-cast distinction. Silver's now-cast has Obama at 72%. My (vague) understanding is that the uncertainty is coming from uncertainty in polling.
Open Source
Banned
Go ahead and google - we're at 287 ships. The SecNav came out this year and said we only need 300 vs the 313 that's been the target number for the last few years - basically just said we'll leave ships abroad longer to make up the difference.
Open Source
Banned
Romney didn't say that, as far as I know. Evidence?
LegendofJoe
Member
I highly suspect Ronmey's "plan" to double the number of Navy ships is a ploy to attract voters in Virginia. The shipbuilding industry in Hampton Roads is huge, so if this "plan" was ever put into action the area would stand to gain a lot of jobs and money.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
He said he was going to give the Navy the submarines they requested, and he'd double the order.
I guess government spending can create jobs as long as the jobs involve building warships.
No there's no reason to flip out no, but if people are only looking at Nate Silver and thinking things are going just fine I think they need to reassess.
Open Source
Banned
"Dov Zakheim, a top defense adviser to Mitt Romney, confirmed the Republican presidential nominee’s plan to build 15 Navy vessels, including three attack submarines, a year, which would require nearly doubling the Navy’s annual shipbuilding budget."
Is this what you are referring to? That's a far cry from 600.
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