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[Zyae]

Excessive? Gross. It should be this way everywhere. If you've had drink or drugs of any amount in a 12 hour window, don't get behind the wheel, period.

Lmao. How delusional

 

[Laekon]

Just make the punishments so severe that people won't risk it.

If people aren't willing to spend $10-$15 on an uber or lyft to get home, then put on thousands of dollars in fines and a minimum 5 year suspension on their license.

That will wake people up real quick.

The vast majority of preventable deaths from things like drunk driving in this country will decrease if people actually become afraid of the consequences of their actions.

Not arguing the point but it needs to be pointed out that those services, or other transportation ones, aren't available everywhere.

 

[The Futurist]

Not arguing the point but it needs to be pointed out that those services, or other transportation ones, aren't available everywhere.

Figure something else out then. Call a regular taxi service. Anything.

There are options everywhere.

 

[mattwhite924]

Not arguing the point but it needs to be pointed out that those services, or other transportation ones, aren't available everywhere.

Call a friend, call a cab, call your parents, or maybe just drink less.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

We really just need to ban manual driving. Save us, Google.

Another one I just thought of..

"Coffee alters your state of mind so we should ban drinking coffee while driving".

 

[Goldenroad]

It got changed to .04 here (Saskatchewan, Canada), and I don't see the problem. If you're going to drink, don't drive. Simple.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Figure something else out then. Call a regular taxi service. Anything.

There are options everywhere.

There aren't taxi services of any kind in some places. That's where a DD is the solution, or just not drinking so much that you are above the legal limit.

 

[Yayate]

I cannot fathom how much some of you people are fighting to keep drinking before they drive. Is it really that normal in America to always drink something alcoholic when you're going out by car?

 

[The Futurist]

There aren't taxi services of any kind in some places. That's where a DD is the solution, or just not drinking so much that you are above the legal limit.

Why the hell are people obsessed with these hypothetical places with no uber, no taxis, no bus service?

How many places like that exist in America?

 

[Goodstyle]

Drinkers in this thread getting up in arms about this are being ridiculous. You don't need to drink more than 2 beers at a diner or stakehouse before driving home. If you feel like you absolutely have to have more than 2, then maybe you have a problem.

Utah voted for Bernie Sanders on March 22, 2016 79.3 percent to Hillary's 20.3 percent.

Utah Dems are okay in my book.

Funny how this lines up time wise.

Bernie won because Utah has a high white population, while Hillary got most of her support from black/latino Americans. Utah Dems aren't "better" than the states that went to Hillary. You lionizing states that voted for Bernie can be perceived as you just praising states just for having a high white pop. all because Bernie failed to appeal to minorities.

 

[Cocaloch]

Why the hell are people obsessed with these hypothetical places with no uber, no taxis, no bus service?

How many places like that exist in America?

A lot?

You lionizing states that voted for Bernie can be perceived as you just praising states just for having a high white pop. all because Bernie failed to appeal to minorities.

You can read it like that if you are intentionally trying to make him look bad. A more reasonable person would probably just understand he thinks Bernie was better than Clinton.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Why the hell are people obsessed with these hypothetical places with no uber, no taxis, no bus service?

How many places like that exist in America?

Like literally every smallish town/city in America? I'd say most places under 5,000-10,000 in population don't really have any options.

Rural America exists.

 

[The Futurist]

Like literally every smallish town/city in America? I'd say most places under 5,000-10,000 in population don't really have any options.

Rural America exists.

There's no uber tractor huh?

 

[Cocaloch]

Like literally every smallish town/city in America? I'd say most places under 5,000-10,000 in population don't really have any options.

Rural America exists.

It's not even rural America. A lot of decent sized towns don't have these services and America is overwhelmingly bad everywhere for public transportation outside of the North East and Chicago.

 

[ScatheZombie]

I cannot fathom how much some of you people are fighting to keep drinking before they drive. Is it really that normal in America to always drink something alcoholic when you're going out by car?

Pretty much, yes.

That's why I called it a cultural problem earlier in the thread.

It's completely arbitrary. I've done graduate level work on the topic; there is no evidence that .08 means anything on a universal level, much less .05. That's what arbitrary means.

That's not what arbitrary means. The law isn't based on the universal point where everyone is drunk. It's based on the point where some people will begin to be impaired.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Putting 0 money into transit infrastructure or enabling automatic forms of transportation but then cracking down on DUIs is a stupid way to address the problem unless you want to make money vs. actually increasing road safety.

 

[Xe4]

Another one I just thought of..

"Coffee alters your state of mind so we should ban drinking coffee while driving".

Are you fucking for real right now? Are you seriously comparing Alchol to Cofee?

 

[lawnchair]

Putting 0 money into transit infrastructure or enabling automatic forms of transportation but then cracking down on DUIs is a stupid way to address the problem unless you want to make money vs. actually increasing road safety.

yup. utah sucks.

the boycott continues!

 

[Cocaloch]

Pretty much, yes.

That's why I called it a cultural problem earlier in the thread.



That's not what arbitrary means. The law isn't based on the universal point where everyone is drunk. It's based on the point where some people will begin to be impaired.

You have this backwards. Americans don't drink more than say Europeans. They drive more. There might be some cultural elements at play here, but they probably derive more from structural and institutional realities than anything else.

 

[PSqueak]

Good way to keep those jails packed and that fine money coming in.

Yeah, that's what came to my mind.

 

[Polari]

It's 0.05 or lower in most countries.

 

[AnAnole]

lol at people saying having 1 standard drink will impair someone's driving

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's 0.05 or lower in most countries.

Most countries weren't developed after the rise of the automobile and have responsible ways to get from Point A to Point B.

 

[Magus1234]

It's completely arbitrary. I've done graduate level work on the topic; there is no evidence that .08 means anything on a universal level, much less .05. That's what arbitrary means.



A better solution is putting more money into automated cars. But it's not about road safety, its about racking up $5000 fines from people who get DUIs at sort-of constitutional traffic checkpoints.

Exactly, that is why the whole point of this law is too feed more money into the DUI ecosystem (and it is one, for anyone who has been through it all or studied it knows) at the expense of people who get busted. So lets dispel that holier than thou, don't drink and drive nonsense. This isn't about that, it's strictly about channeling money away from people to industries that strive and rely on DUI's. If people really want to work on prevention and education there are things to invest in that actually do that, this is just gouging people and putting them through the court system because some lobbyist got his way.

 

[Joni]

Police shooting thread: "I knew he was black before I entered this thread".

This thread: "I knew he was a Republican before I entered this thread".

Why? I always think Democrat when it is a good thing.

 

[diehard]

Putting 0 money into transit infrastructure or enabling automatic forms of transportation but then cracking down on DUIs is a stupid way to address the problem unless you want to make money vs. actually increasing road safety.

Utah just completed a $2.85B public transit project and is looking spend even more, so....

 

[giant_frying_pan]

That seems excessive, but it's your life ultimately. :]

And the lives of many others at risk from drink-drivers.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

I don't think everyone's metabolism deals with a drink that quickly.

Also, usually at a bar or restaurant you'd be given 16oz beers, so 2 beers is actually 3 beers. And if they are like 6.5% IPAs, 2 16oz beers like actually more like 4-5 beers. 3 of them is 6-7.

Mixed drinks are even harder to gauge if the bartender isn't measuring their shots out. A lot of places a standard mixed drink probably has 2oz of liquor in it, not one. So 3 mixed drinks is actually 6 drinks. With wine the pour could carry dramatically. 3 more full glasses of wine is actually 6 glasses of wine.

No way in hell anyone should be drinking 3 beers or drinks in an hour and then go driving. That's ridiculous.

This is exactly why you see most DUIs at like .15 or above. People rationalize oh I've only had like 4 beers over a couple hours. Yeah not really, you've had more like 8-9 beers because you weren't drinking 12oz glasses of 4% beer.

That's exactly why I shared that chart. I was shocked to see so many people saying they have 2-3 beers in a small amount of time and think they are safe to drive. I am by no means an expert, but I limit myself to one drink with my meal if I am the driver (2 if it is a long event).

 

[pigeon]

Drunk driving education programs vs toxic masculinity:

Toxic masculinity in a huge landslide.

Stay tuned for toxic masculinity vs innocent bystanders.

 

[23qwerty]

Excessive? Gross. It should be this way everywhere. If you've had drink or drugs of any amount in a 12 hour window, don't get behind the wheel, period.

I'm in god damn crazy town here

 

[Nivash]

I'm in god damn crazy town here

Why would that be, exactly? The limit is 0.02 here in Sweden. People simply don't drink if they plan to drive the same day. Works perfectly fine.

 

[NandoGip]

Im sure this has bene brought up in the thread, but the rule change isnt for any sort of altruistic reason like eliminating DUI's but its another way that the Mormon church is flexin its muscles in UT.

I lived there briefly and its unbelievable the laws they had with the intention to steer young men away from normal lives so that the chance of them going on missions goes up.

The whole goal is to take away an influence that could make a young man away from the church. It hurts the churches bottom line because a young man who goes on a mission is likely to pay tithes for the rest of their life.

Just wanted to bring this back up again. This is the truth, bet on it. They have a history of passing laws to make it more likely a young man will join a mission and not get distracted by partying and etc. Cigarette age is 21 I think.

 

[23qwerty]

Why would that be, exactly? The limit is 0.02 here in Sweden. People simply don't drink if they plan to drive the same day. Works perfectly fine.

There's nothing wrong with having a beer or two with dinner and driving home or wherever. You ain't gonna be impaired. having a 12 hour bar against driving after a drop of alcohol is straight crazy lol

 

[opticalmace]

There's nothing wrong with having a beer or two with dinner and driving home or wherever. You ain't gonna be impaired. having a 12 hour bar against driving after a drop of alcohol is straight crazy lol

In my experience, two beers with dinner will definitely affect me. Don't know what % that corresponds to (I'm 180 lbs), but I wouldn't drive on that.

In fact I only drink when someone else is driving.

 

[23qwerty]

In my experience, two beers with dinner will definitely affect me. Don't know what % that corresponds to (I'm 180 lbs), but I wouldn't drive on that.

In fact I only drink when someone else is driving.

Two pints might do it, but two smaller glasses should be fine in my experience.

 

[Parch]

But it's not about road safety, its about racking up $5000 fines from people who get DUIs at sort-of constitutional traffic checkpoints.

Of course it's about safety. DUI's are not a cash grab. Speeding tickets are the cash grab.
A zero tolerance for drinking and driving is fine by me.

 

[pigeon]

A better solution is putting more money into automated cars. But it's not about road safety, its about racking up $5000 fines from people who get DUIs at sort-of constitutional traffic checkpoints.

Pity the poor people who had no choice but to drink and then drive?

Obviously self-driving cars are a better solution, sure. Not sure that Utah can write a bill to make them happen faster.

 

[Magus1234]

Of course it's about safety. DUI's are not a cash grab. Speeding tickets are the cash grab.
A zero tolerance for drinking and driving is fine by me.

You have no idea man. What happens with a speeding ticket? Just money right. Now with a DUI you have money going to court, to classes, to jails, to lawyers to breathalyzer installers at auto repair companies, to the tow truck company, to the impound and you get free labor from thousands of people who have to go to weekend work for half a year to offset jail time. Oh and the train/buss/taxi companies get more money too. But totally not a cash grab, all about safety.

 

[MeBecomingI]

Canada is also 0.08, or at least Saskatchewan is.

And 0.08 is high enough that you'll never doubt whether or not you're legal to drive. You damn well know because you feel physically and mentally impaired. Anybody who chooses to drive at 0.08 is willingly putting lives at risk. At 0.05, there's going to be a lot more people asking themselves "am I over or am I OK?" Most people will choose to be safe rather than sorry.

I honestly don't see a downside to this. More places should adopt a 0.05 limit.

Saskatchewan just changed their laws as of January 1st, 2017 to a limit of .04% along with a 3-day vehicle and license seizure for first time offenses.

It caused a bit of an uproar when it was announced but I think most people have accepted it and have managed just fine with the stricter limit.

I think .08% is the standard for most other provinces in Canada though. I'm not too sure and I may be wrong though.

 

[23qwerty]

Saskatchewan just changed their laws as of January 1st, 2017 to a limit of .04% along with a 3-day vehicle and license seizure for first time offenses.

It caused a bit of an uproar when it was announced but I think most people have accepted it and have managed just fine with the stricter limit.

I think .08% is the standard for most other provinces in Canada though. I'm not too sure and I may be wrong though.

.05 in BC, though I think it's just a fine between 5 and 8

 

[WaterAstro]

That seems excessive, but it's your life ultimately. :]

You mean it's everyone's life around you when you're drinking and driving?

 

[Nivash]

There's nothing wrong with having a beer or two with dinner and driving home or wherever. You ain't gonna be impaired. having a 12 hour bar against driving after a drop of alcohol is straight crazy lol

Yeah no, that's very individual. It is true that even two or three beers won't necessarily bring you above 0.05, but even a single strong beer on a hot day or on an empty stomach is easily enough to negatively affect a lot of drivers. Not to mention that the effect on judgement means they won't know they're effected.

Sure, 12 hours is excessive, but my point is that simply not having a drink for dinner and then going driving isn't some kind of great sacrifice. It's how most people already live over here.

Oh, and for the thread in general and in case it hasn't been posted yet: research has shown that virtually all drivers are impaired at 0.05 and that lowering the legal limit to this level or lower will save lives.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4448946/

 

[Almighty]

Plenty of things about this state I could complain about, but this ain't one of them.

Don't drink and drive. Anyone who can't follow that rule gets no sympathy from me.

 

[pigeon]

You have no idea man. What happens with a speeding ticket? Just money right. Now with a DUI you have money going to court, to classes, to jails, to lawyers to breathalyzer installers at auto repair companies, to the tow truck company, to the impound and you get free labor from thousands of people who have to go to weekend work for half a year to offset jail time. Oh and the train/buss/taxi companies get more money too. But totally not a cash grab, all about safety.

It's so insane that the police state puts more serious penalties on you just for doing a thing that kills thousands of people a year

 

[opticalmace]

It's so insane that the police state puts more serious penalties on you just for doing a thing that kills thousands of people a year

About 10k (~30%) of all traffic fatalities in the US each year involve alcohol impairment (https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812231, https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812350). Yeah, definitely a cash grab.

 

[pigeon]

About 10k (~30%) of all traffic fatalities in the US each year involve alcohol impairment (https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812231, https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812350). Yeah, definitely a cash grab.

One in three people in America will be involved in a drunk-driving related car accident during their lifetime.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving

$$$$$$$

 

[Magus1234]

It's so insane that the police state puts more serious penalties on you just for doing a thing that kills thousands of people a year

Again, you are falling for the rhetoric. This does NOTHING to prevent that, the rates will stay the same. So what do you care about? About being more strict in punishment or actually doing something to help?

 

[Nivash]

Again, you are falling for the rhetoric. This does NOTHING to prevent that, the rates will stay the same. So what do you care about? About being more strict in punishment or actually doing something to help?

There's actually plenty of research indicating that lowering the limit to 0.05 will save lives. It's what happened in other countries that did it:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4448946/

Recent studies indicate that the relative risk of being killed in a single-vehicle crash for drivers with BACs of 0.05–0.079 is at least seven times that of drivers at 0.00 BAC (no alcohol). These risks are significant.

 

[Swig_]

Putting 0 money into transit infrastructure or enabling automatic forms of transportation but then cracking down on DUIs is a stupid way to address the problem unless you want to make money vs. actually increasing road safety.

Not that it's perfect, but we have Trax and Front-runner. If I really wanted to, I could walk from my house in the south west valley and take trax to a bar downtown and come back. It's more than many areas as geographically large and widespread have. You could come up from Provo on frontrunner and do the same thing.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Again, you are falling for the rhetoric. This does NOTHING to prevent that, the rates will stay the same. So what do you care about? About being more strict in punishment or actually doing something to help?

Help? As if people who freely choose to drink and drive are some oppressed minority? Get over yourself.