Charlie Kirk assassinated at Utah campus event

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JonCarr/ said:
Modern politics, social media, and now fucking AI have doomed us all. Just saw a Kirk video of him talking about Israeli conspiracies with over 100k likes on Facebook and you can clearly see the video uses AI voice over and editing.

Also we need to stop this broad right vs left bullshit and stick to specifics and how we can solve these issues. We are heading to a senseless dark path.
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I've been refraining from commenting much in this thread, but that's been my primary takeaway. Events like this, and the subsequent discourse, seem to only further the divide, and fuel hatred and blame.

I've seen it on every single platform. I've seen it on Twitter, reddit, Facebook, the broad news media, and in this very thread. I've felt the anger and blame in my own heart.

I don't know what the correct path forward should be, but I know that more division in this country is not it. We're corroding society, and the more I contemplate our situation, the more I realize that no one is blameless. But I don't know what the path to forgiveness and unity looks like, or if it's even possible, and that frightens me.
 
JonCarr/ said:
Modern politics, social media, and now fucking AI have doomed us all. Just saw a Kirk video of him talking about Israeli conspiracies with over 100k likes on Facebook and you can clearly see the video uses AI voice over and editing.

Also we need to stop this broad right vs left bullshit and stick to specifics and how we can solve these issues. We are heading to a senseless dark path.
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I mean the President of the United States posted an AI video of Nancy Pelosi which included a joke about her husband being in love with the hammer guy. Or at least I think he did, it's confusing enough now that I question everything. We aren't closing this Pandora box.
 
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laynelane said:
I didn't see the previous post about this. What happened prior to this, if I'm understanding correctly, is the doctor made disparaging remarks about Charlie Kirk's assassination and the nurse who reported it was punished for it initially. If so, even though it worked out in the end, this is one good thing that's coming out of this mess - too many people in positions of trust have felt absolutely free to be vile pos and, not only that, they were able to shut down and shut out any dissenting voices. I'm glad to see some change in this area.

Edit: Some more details in these articles:

nj1015.com

Controversy at Englewood Hospital over surgeon's remarks on Charlie Kirk

At Englewood Hospital, a nurse's complaint about a surgeon's disturbing comments on a political assassination leads to her suspension and a lawsuit over free speech issues.
nj1015.com nj1015.com

nypost.com

NJ surgeon who ‘cheered’ Charlie Kirk’s murder resigns — as suspended nurse who called him out is reinstated

A New Jersey surgeon who allegedly “cheered” Charlie Kirk’s murder while at work has resigned — and the nurse suspended for calling him out has been reinstated, their hospital said Monday.
nypost.com nypost.com

Insane that she was ever punished and I hope she wins her lawsuit ie. gets a good amount in damages.
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Ive had to deal with hospital bureaucracy my whole life and I think there's definitely more to this story
 
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EviLore said:


A great deal of compassion for her. Conviction that she can overcome her problems rather than remain defined by them.
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I hope she can overcome her problems too.

This isn't the first time I've seen a clip where Charlie does this, but when he sees someone hurting he does acknowledge the debate but instantly starts to be more concerned about them vs. the difference of opinion.
 
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EviLore said:


A great deal of compassion for her. Conviction that she can overcome her problems rather than remain defined by them.
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Charlie's death has hit hard for me. I've been watching his content casually over the past couple of years. I don't share many of his political, social or religious views. In fact, I disagree with him quite broadly, but I really liked him as a person; he was a good, kind-hearted guy, and whilst I've seen him make poorly constructed arguments, I think he generally approaches debates in good faith and usually conducts himself much better in the heat of discussion than I did when I was his age.

A couple of years ago, when COVID vaccines were a particularly sensitive topic, I was alarmed by the number of patients I encountered who had stopped talking to friends or relatives due to their opposing stances. I began to share the following anecdote in an attempt to temper their feelings and usually to good effect: I once came up behind a broken down car at a busy Sydney intersection on a stormy day. I got out of my car and started to push the the vehicle (containing a mother and daughter) to a safer position. I was quickly joined by another 5 or so people and we made short work of it. I don't know the religious, political or social views of any of those people, but it's statistically unlikely we shared the same views, yet we were all fundamentally alike and worked well as a team.
 
12Goblins said:
Ive had to deal with hospital bureaucracy my whole life and I think there's definitely more to this story
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No doubt, but a doctor - a person who took the Hippocratic Oath (this is one of the core points of the nurse's argument) - is gone for celebrating the murder of someone he didn't like in front of a patient and staff. The nurse has been reinstated and is suing the hospital. Given the the thousands of other people who are now finding out that there can be consequences for celebrating political violence, it's yet another example but an important one considering the location (and the position of trust doctors are in) it occurred.
 
calico said:
Are you referring to the incident with the teacher?
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The teacher and a lot of other 'surprising' posts from Canadians.

It should not come as a surprise that the majority of the world are now ignoring American products and services (e.g., latest tourism numbers), booing the American national anthem, and loudly cheering when bad things happen to America. Canadians are going to openly support bad things happening to America because American leadership has openly supported bad things happening to Canadians.
 
Unfortunatecookie said:
The teacher and a lot of other 'surprising' posts from Canadians.

It should not come as a surprise that the majority of the world are now ignoring American products and services (e.g., latest tourism numbers), booing the American national anthem, and loudly cheering when bad things happen to America. Canadians are going to openly support bad things happening to America because American leadership has openly supported bad things happening to Canadians.
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I haven't seen anyone openly supporting bad things happening to Americans. I'm talking about irl. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it certainly isn't "Canadians" overall - extremists, unfortunately, exist here too but painting everyone with the same brush is irrational and unfair.

Generalizations are never helpful in these situations, basically.
 
Unfortunatecookie said:
The teacher and a lot of other 'surprising' posts from Canadians.
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There's an ocean between not 'crying in solidarity over Charlie Kirk's death' (as you said it) and showing students video of him being brutally murdered and telling them he deserved it. Even leaving America out of it, you cannot have people like that educating children and teaching them it's ok to kill someone if you disagree with them. It is antithetical to the whole concept of a peaceful, democratic society. It would be better for that society to shut the school down than to keep giving someone like that daily access to the minds of the children within it.

As for America vs Canada, I think equating booing the American national anthem with cheering a public assassination is just plain dumb.
 
calico said:
There's an ocean between not 'crying in solidarity over Charlie Kirk's death' (as you said it) and showing students video of him being brutally murdered and telling them he deserved it. Even leaving America out of it, you cannot have people like that educating children and teaching them it's ok to kill someone if you disagree with them. It is antithetical to the whole concept of a peaceful, democratic society. It would be better for that society to shut the school down than to keep giving someone like that daily access to the minds of the children within it.

As for America vs Canada, I think equating booing the American national anthem with cheering a public assassination is just plain dumb.
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The profession of teaching really needs to be closely looked at. For his own self-gratification, that teacher disturbed and likely traumatized little kids. And for what? He's so narcissistic and out of touch with reality that he can't distinguish what is and isn't appropriate for children. It's not safe for such a person to be around children, much less teaching them and influencing their impressionable minds. I realize teaching is already a hard job, but all more reason to make sure those who do it are psychologically sound. Some reforms need to happen in the field and it's not just this incident that points to that.
 
Dacvak said:
I don't know what the correct path forward should be, but I know that more division in this country is not it. We're corroding society, and the more I contemplate our situation, the more I realize that no one is blameless. But I don't know what the path to forgiveness and unity looks like, or if it's even possible, and that frightens me.
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We need to stop pretending like people are able to figure things out by themselves if faced with sophisticated psych algos developed by PhDs. It's the same bullshit idea as Adam Smith "invisible hand of the market" - where was the hand in 2008 when all the banks were bailed out to prevent global collapse of the financial system?

I'm sorry it will be shocking to freedom absolutists here from the US but - you need to reign that shit in via legislation. Companies cannot get "get out of jail" free card by saying they do not need to control anything or moderate any content. You force them to, then you slap fines on them till they get the message.
 
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I think people in positions of trust (teachers, childcare, nurses and doctors, police, military) should, by law, automatically be fired and lose any professional licenses associated with their job, if they cheer/encourage political assassinations. Imagine a world where doctors let patients die because they had different political beliefs or a police officer that doesn't help somebody in distress for the same reason. Madness.

It's nice to see Texas taking action


I really think I'm living in a bad episode of the Twilight Zone these days. I used to be center-left, I have a really hard time comprehending how it all went to shit so fast. Pedos, rapists and murders are now the good guys, while police officers are the bad guys. Traditional Western values that have improved humanity immensely are now considered evil, while degeneracy and tyranny are considered good. Discriminating against people based on their sex, skin color or sexual orientation used to be illegal, now it's encouraged as the right thing to do. Illegal migrants (many of them violent criminals) are given more rights and privileges than native citizens, including sometimes the right to vote. And if you dare to suggest that all of this is insane and makes no sense, you're labeled a racist, bigot, fascist, nazi who deserves to be killed. It's made me less able to trust people. I keep contact with strangers to a bare minimum these days, you never know who is one of these crazies.
 
Boss Mog said:
I really think I'm living in a bad episode of the Twilight Zone these days. I used to be center-left, I have a really hard time comprehending how it all went to shit so fast. Pedos, rapists and murders are now the good guys, while police officers are the bad guys. Traditional Western values that have improved humanity immensely are now considered evil, while degeneracy and tyranny are considered good. Discriminating against people based on their sex, skin color or sexual orientation used to be illegal, now it's encouraged as the right thing to do. Illegal migrants (many of them violent criminals) are given more rights and privileges than native citizens, including sometimes the right to vote. And if you dare to suggest that all of this is insane and makes no sense, you're labeled a racist, bigot, fascist, nazi who deserves to be killed. It's made me less able to trust people. I keep contact with strangers to a bare minimum these days, you never know who is one of these crazies.
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Sub_Level said:
Our FBI is incompetent. Don't fall for their self-aggrandizing.
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You have to take a realistic point of view here..

The shooter was unknown.
He run off.

How on earth do you expect anyone to magic up a suspect, no matter how big your agency is. And you have to at least give some credit as you know quite a few agents were working their arse off to gather something out of the ether.

This also gives some credence to the fact that the government isn't watching everybody 24/7.

It's actually a miracle this arse hat was found, and that poor dad had to shop his lunatic son.
 
calico said:
There's an ocean between not 'crying in solidarity over Charlie Kirk's death' (as you said it) and showing students video of him being brutally murdered and telling them he deserved it. Even leaving America out of it, you cannot have people like that educating children and teaching them it's ok to kill someone if you disagree with them. It is antithetical to the whole concept of a peaceful, democratic society. It would be better for that society to shut the school down than to keep giving someone like that daily access to the minds of the children within it.

As for America vs Canada, I think equating booing the American national anthem with cheering a public assassination is just plain dumb.
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What is the problem with booing? Does it affect anyone?
 
Topher said:
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It's such a sad state of affairs to see this crap. And I'm always seeing videos of teachers acting like 14 year olds in classrooms, it's been going on years!

The amount of utter tripe I had to deal with in my sons old school in the UK, was a shocking show of just how far down the toilet education has become. The head was probably the worst, she was right up there in the pushing of all this LGBTQ+ bollocks, trans rights etc..

It's funny thinking back to the 90's here in the UK. You knew absolutely NOTHING of what the teachers believed, and you wouldn't have dreamt of asking either..

You certainly wouldn't know which way they leaned politically, either. Everyone was so much more private..

These days they just shit out everything on social media.
 
Anyone calling for violence or revenge against the "other side" is fucked in the head. That has no place in the US.

And (not that I should even need to say something so goddamn obvious) neither does assassinations of someone you don't agree with.
 
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The Sum of Zero said:
Anyone calling for violence or revenge against the "other side" is fucked in the head. That has no place in the US.

And (not that I should even need to say something so goddamn obvious) neither does assassinations of someone you don't agree with.
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Isn't it odd that you can grow up not knowing of a war you've personally been involved in. Have an upbringing where you want for nothing. You've always got food on the table and you're warm in the winter..

And yet, you can advocate for conflict without ever being in one or even giving thought of the consequences.

We really are a species hell bent on destruction.

Maybe us not being in a proper conflict for so long has turned us fruity. This is after all one of the longest times the west hasn't really been involved in major conflict 🤷‍♂️

I'd personally prefer if everyone stopped being a prat and poured resources into getting off planet, but what can we do

At least Space X is giving it a proper go.
 
Flash Junkins said:
He would not do shit but piss his pants
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Trigger easy, gun loving americans that love getting excuses to use their firearms collection are gonna be scared to shoot at hostile walking targets?

Dude you must have missed a couple of centuries of american home invading history if you think they are scared to shot at something knocking at their door with hostile intentions.

If anything, them being robot erase any sense of guilty and hesitation in the shooter.
 
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GateofD said:
So many of these captures is "a family member or friend turned them in" versus the actual fbi tracking them down. I guess real life isn't like The Fugitive or US Marshall's after all.
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Some FBI agent probably screamed in agony as he realized there would be no buckaroo moment for him.

laynelane said:
No doubt, but a doctor - a person who took the Hippocratic Oath (this is one of the core points of the nurse's argument) - is gone for celebrating the murder of someone he didn't like in front of a patient and staff. The nurse has been reinstated and is suing the hospital. Given the the thousands of other people who are now finding out that there can be consequences for celebrating political violence, it's yet another example but an important one considering the location (and the position of trust doctors are in) it occurred.
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Imagine if another right-wing personality gets shot and this surgeon is the one in charge of saving that person. Can he be trusted to do his best? It's insane to devout the amount of time he has put into becoming a doctor and surgeon and he still has no basic compassion for human beings.
 
EviLore said:
He's definitely on a large dose, going by his vocal patterns and jaw movements. A quick google confirms that he is openly taking them.

Amphetamines amplify narcissistic and sociopathic personality traits.
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I believe a lot of the top streamers have been on "ADHD medication" since forever. It is their "secret superhero power" that lets them speak nonsense non stop in ten hour streams. I only watch Hasan so I can see how long he can sit still before he starts tweaking or touching his mouth. Usually under ten seconds.
 
www.ksl.com

Man claimed to shoot Charlie Kirk to 'draw attention from the real shooter,' police say

Police say that a Salt Lake City man claimed responsibility moments after the shooting death of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, in an attempt to
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com

The first guy they arrested (the old guy) apparently admitted he "did it to draw attention from the real shooter". So a spontaneous decoy. He is being investigated for obstruction of justice and also "sexual exploitation of a minor", so I guess they found that shit while investigating him.

To my mind, deceiving the police with the intent of preventing them from stopping a shooting in progress would make him an accomplice, not merely obstructing justice. Deceiving them with the intent of helping the shooter escape would make him an accessory after the fact.
 
calico said:
www.ksl.com

Man claimed to shoot Charlie Kirk to 'draw attention from the real shooter,' police say

Police say that a Salt Lake City man claimed responsibility moments after the shooting death of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, in an attempt to
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com

The first guy they arrested (the old guy) apparently admitted he "did it to draw attention from the real shooter". So a spontaneous decoy. He is being investigated for obstruction of justice and also "sexual exploitation of a minor", so I guess they found that shit while investigating him.

To my mind, deceiving the police with the intent of preventing them from stopping a shooting in progress would make him an accomplice, not merely obstructing justice. Deceiving them with the intent of helping the shooter escape would make him an accessory after the fact.
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cN50h7LGxSnSCQRc.jpg


What the fuck though?

Is there any deviant behaviour these fuck ups aren't involved in?

Seriously? It's never ending :messenger_neutral:
 
paolo11 said:
I wonder what can we do to keep the peace. It's very hard and complex lot of people are very cautious now. It is scary and dangerous.
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To stop paying attention of this online civil war that people keep fueling for engagement. I mean I don't even use twitter but reading this thread made me believe half of the country want the other half dead. This is terrible.
 
Sub_Level said:
I like how Kash Patel on Fox and Friends was like "we got him in 33 hours"

The only reason he was caught is because of his father. He could have been accross an international border if he really wanted to. Our FBI is incompetent. Don't fall for their self-aggrandizing.
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That's not really completely true.

The FBI at the very least did enough of work to get evidence that supports this person is the one they were looking for. Simply admitting guilt does nothing on its own. They need a lot of other evidence to keep him in.

While I get that they might've not been at the top of their game and they probably give too much credit for themselves, I don't think they were as bad as people claim they were.

Incompetent? Maybe somewhat, who knows, but the result still is that they have the criminal instead of not having him. Who knows if he even would have confessed to his parents without the FBI first getting pictures of him and being transparent with the information relatively early.

And no, there's not much of a chance for him to be across an international borded without the FBI having a trail on him. Do you think they didn't comb every possible security video based on which direction he was going? How do you think he would've gotten away with not anyone checking him at an airport? The FBI would've probably been there before he got there, had he gone to that direction.
 
Dr.Morris79 said:
That reminds me :unsure:

www.bbc.com

Australian nurses stood down over ‘vile’ antisemitic video

The footage appeared to show the pair threatening to kill and refuse to treat Israeli patients.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Our institutions are completely fucked and everyone's retarded.
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This could be a slippery slope fallacy from my part, and a relatively controversial take from my part too, but I wonder how big of an effect the modern abortion laws have been for this culture.
I mean, abortion is prohibited in Hippocratic oath. But that part is not followed anymore. Isn't it easier to end up not following the rest of the oath too once you get used to not follow one part of it first? The oath also prohibits giving anyone poison even if they ask to. But look at what's happening with euthanasia today. I think it's no wonder people have also become more selective on who they want to give treatment to, when the Hippocratic oath is not seen as sacred anymore.
 
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