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[Zathalus]

Bt

But what about sales ?I'm sure sales on console would be higher

On all the consoles? Of course sales would be higher across all the consoles, I'm stating to release in addition to consoles. Releasing on Steam is very cheap, and they would probably get at minimum a few million dollars from doing so. The game is basically already developed on a PC SDK considering the Xbox release.

 

[Fabieter]

No did not. Now stop derailing the thread with your console-warrior-brain filter.

Likewise bro!

 

[Fake]

And we have companies that have unlimited money budge and still make mediocre story telling games without creativity.

 

[Hypereides]

They should stop running out of money

And you know just how to fix that, right?

Don’t count on reviews. For some reason majority big gaming site didn’t bother preview this game, not even EZA.

Really? That's hilarious. Not to mention some of those folks have the audacity to give themselves the "gaming journalist" badge.

 

[IAmRei]

each time there is junior or internship which interest in 2D art and animation, i always show them vanilla games. it's the best example and references in 2D. one person in my place played sentinel, now he love all VW works.

 

[Hudo]

each time there is junior or internship which interest in 2D art and animation, i always show them vanilla games. it's the best example and references in 2D. one person in my place played sentinel, now he love all VW works.

Yeah. They are like the modern-day equivalent of SNK.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Really? That's hilarious. Not to mention some of those folks have the audacity to give themselves the "gaming journalist" badge.

Thats not at all uncommon for smaller game releases though. There are tons of relatively popular and well received games released every year that get near 0 or nill coverage by these outlets.

 

[Švejk]

Konami needs to fork out some of that pachinko skrilla and have them do a proper Vania.

 

[IAmRei]

Yeah. They are like the modern-day equivalent of SNK.

dang, SNK back before made one of the best (if not) the most beautiful pixel arts and 2d animation in industry.

 

[Hypereides]

Thats not at all uncommon for smaller game releases though. There are tons of relatively popular and well received games released every year that get near 0 or nill coverage by these outlets.

I see your perspective, but I wouldn't call Vanillaware a "small time" studio/name by any means these days. The guys have been around for over 20 years now. They've made their mark on the industry already.

 

[CanUKlehead]

Outside of 13S, I didn't really enjoy their other games. This one doesn't appeal, but good luck to them, seems like a decent studio.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Which 80s/90s OVA did they plagiarise this time?

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Actually Kamitani himself said that he was interested porting Muramasa to other system but it’s difficult because of licensing issues.

licensing issues???

Which licensing issues

 

[Labadal]

Considering how long their games are in development, I am not surprised.

 

[ReyBrujo]

My bigger question is why the hell Atlus decided to release this game right beside big release like Rebirth?

Atlus knows they have their audience. I guess they don't expect the game doing much better even without other RPG or ARPG being released around.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I see your perspective, but I wouldn't call Vanillaware a "small time" studio/name by any means these days. The guys have been around for over 20 years now. They've made their mark on the industry already.

True true, but they're still small with like 30-40 employees and making relatively niche games. Its important to note that even if they don't get as much coverage as medium or big studios, they still get a lot more attention than other similarly sized niche studios making similar types of games.

For example, i mentioned ProjectMoon earlier. They have a similar size to Vanillaware and also make games that are very popular among certain niches (Its estimated one of their latest games is over 500k sales on steam alone). Lets compare how much reviews their games receive compared to a VW one.

13 Sentinels got covered by 70 news outlets for the ps4 version alone (there are 36 others for switch). Library of Ruina on the other hand got covered by whooping 1 news outlet on Xbox. It doesn't even have a PC page on Metacritic which is where majority of sales were.

My point is, Vanillaware for its size and type of games they make, get a lot more attention and are a lot less underrated than people tend to claim they are.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It was exaggerated. But seeing as pc gamers like you beg for Day and date games while suggesting other games should delay their console ports show some true colours.

Sony supports PC so day and date discussion isn’t port begging.


I’m not aware of discussions suggesting games be delayed on console, so maybe you can provide some links to those?
In the meantime this is about Vanillaware running out of money and my comment is that releasing in early access on PC would objectively be cheaper to do.

 

[Pejo]

So frustratinig to hear because I know the Vanillaware collection (Particularly this game, 13 Sentinels, Dragon's Crown, Odin Sphere) would do really well on Steam, but Kamitani has said in the past that he doesn't like the PC platform and probably doesn't want to risk releasing on PC without knowing it'd be worth it. Classic Catch 22 type shit.

If I hit the lotto tomorrow I'd fund PC ports of the entire Vanillaware Catalogue.

 

[SmokedMeat]

You implied the same as SmokedMeat . Pc first release and consoles later which is basically the same.w.

Don’t blame me for your platform not supporting early access. For a developer that’s barely making ends meet trying to get a game out the door, it’s a smart route to take.

 

[Labadal]

EA means shit. There are several games that had an EA release that had to be canceled. EA doesn't guarantee anything.

 

[Guilty_AI]

EA means shit. There are several games that had an EA release that had to be canceled. EA doesn't guarantee anything.

It's not some lance of longinus but can help greatly, especially smaller devs without much money or personal. It recoups some money earlier, it helps probing market interest, it gives the dev feedback they wouldn't have been able to get otherwise and gets word of mouth going.

 

[Labadal]

Sure, all of those are true, but as the previous poster said that early access is objectively good, that isn't the case.

 

[Fabieter]

Don’t blame me for your platform not supporting early access. For a developer that’s barely making ends meet trying to get a game out the door, it’s a smart route to take.

My gaming preference spans across all platforms, but I strongly dislike early access games, especially in the single-player genre. Please refrain from suggesting dropping potentially lucrative platforms just for early access.

I also argue that if a developer engages in years of early access before a full release, there should be a substantial discount. It's unfair to platforms that don't receive early access. I know it's challenging, but even if you primarily play on one platform, try to empathize with others who have different preferences.

 

[Skifi28]

Which 80s/90s OVA did they plagiarise this time?

Which did they the previous time?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Sure, all of those are true, but as the previous poster said that early access is objectively good, that isn't the case.

It's certainly not a negative for a developer serious about their game though. Most problematic thing i see on EA are the more scammy devs using it as an excuse to get money for lazy half-finished games that'll never see the light of day, which certainly doesn't apply to Vanillaware.

 

[Deerock71]

Vanillaware always been treasure in gaming industry since Princess Crown.

I think he meant Treasure, which is another great developer. I could be wrong.

 

[Labadal]

It's certainly not a negative for a developer serious about their game though. Most problematic thing i see on EA are the more scammy devs using it as an excuse to get money for lazy half-finished games that'll never see the light of day, which certainly doesn't apply to Vanillaware.

There are also developers with good intentions that in the end can't handle continued develooment.

One such example is a studio with a similar size to VanillaWare. They released Unforetold: Witchstone on EA last month. Price was €40. It did so poorly that they had to shut down the studio.

Releasing on EA can be good, but it isn't a guaranteed success.

 

[mejin]

Hope the best for them. But they need to be smart too. Xbox instead of Pc is utterly asinine.

 

[Topher]

But they still decided to make a xbox port. I'm sure a PC version would sell more than a Xbox one at the very least, in their homeland especially. Vanillaware seem like one of those studios that make great games but get held back by poor business decisions and management, i'm honestly surprised they haven't gone under yet.

Pretty much what I was going to post. If budget restraints require target platforms to be cut or postponed then, in this case, Xbox would be the most likely candidate unless there was a cash incentive for being on Game Pass, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Also, Unicorn Overlord looks to be a perfect game for Steam Deck so there is additional appeal for PC there. Seems like a missed opportunity.

 

[Guilty_AI]

There are also developers with good intentions that in the end can't handle continued develooment.

One such example is a studio with a similar size to VanillaWare. They released Unforetold: Witchstone on EA last month. Price was €40. It did so poorly that they had to shut down the studio.

Releasing on EA can be good, but it isn't a guaranteed success.

Yeah, but they would still have shut down even if they didn't do EA. My point is even if EA won't necessarely save a studio fated to be doomed, it won't doom a studio.

 

[Labadal]

Yeah, but they would still have shut down even if they didn't do EA. My point is even if EA won't necessarely save a studio fated to be doomed, it won't doom a studio.

Also not true, but that's a discussion for another time.

 

[Beechos]

Somebody moneyhat or buy these guys. Can't have them go away with 1 bomb if they are this financially strapped.

 

[Arsic]

Honestly they could get ahead of the $ curve with one gacha mobile release.

Their battle system are basically designed for little to no player interaction and instead watching or skipping combat, especially with this title.

Throw in a few SSS drops for the giant tiddy owl woman, and you’ll make all your development money in a day.

Then you can focus on a fully cooked and completed console title.

 

[StereoVsn]

actually, their precarious budget situation might explain why there is no PC version.

The question is why the heck didn’t SEGA/Atlus pony up the cash for a PC release.

Steam sales for this game would have been pretty substantial.

 

[Celcius]

Well that explains why no PC release.
I had no idea this was in development for a decade though... that's even longer than GranBlue Fantasy Relink.
I'm just glad that they've managed to stay in business all these years. Hopefully some day we get a modern Muramasa port.

 

[Hudo]

The question is why the heck didn’t SEGA/Atlus pony up the cash for a PC release.

That's something I've been pondering about as well.

 

[Perrott]

But they still decided to make a xbox port. I'm sure a PC version would sell more than a Xbox one at the very least, in their homeland especially.

They didn't really decide to make an Xbox port, they are just contractually obligated to do so per some parity agreement between Sega (the publisher) and Microsoft signed in 2020, which noted that any future games published by Sega on the PS5 would have to be simultaneously released on the Series X|S as well.

Now all Sega studios and partners are paying the consequences of that terrible deal.

 

[Topher]

The question is why the heck didn’t SEGA/Atlus pony up the cash for a PC release.

Steam sales for this game would have been pretty substantial.

Or fund a 13 Sentimels port to PC to help fund Unicorn Overlord. Just seems really odd in this day where console manufacturers are increasingly looking to PC for additional revenue that a third party studio like Vanillaware with Sega backing is just ignoring the platform entirely.

 

[Guilty_AI]

They didn't really decide to make an Xbox port, they are just contractually obligated to do so per some parity agreement between Sega (the publisher) and Microsoft signed in 2020, which noted that any future games published by Sega on the PS5 would have to be simultaneously released on the Series X|S as well.

Now all Sega studios and partners are paying the consequences of that terrible deal.

That would explain a lot of things if true.

 

[lame gag1990]

Struggling for cash but releasing on Xbox instead of PC is a head scratcher for me. I appreciate any developer releasing games on as many consoles as possible but Vanillaware is so niche, on Xbox, it simply won't sell well. PC would make way more sales I would guess. Or could someone help port some of their older titles to PC? There's definitely some market for their games. They always get attention no matter how niche they are.

 

[Topher]

They didn't really decide to make an Xbox port, they are just contractually obligated to do so per some parity agreement between Sega (the publisher) and Microsoft signed in 2020, which noted that any future games published by Sega on the PS5 would have to be simultaneously released on the Series X|S as well.

Now all Sega studios and partners are paying the consequences of that terrible deal.

How do we know this?

 

[Celcius]

They didn't really decide to make an Xbox port, they are just contractually obligated to do so per some parity agreement between Sega (the publisher) and Microsoft signed in 2020, which noted that any future games published by Sega on the PS5 would have to be simultaneously released on the Series X|S as well.

Now all Sega studios and partners are paying the consequences of that terrible deal.

What would Sega get out of of that deal?
Do you have any sources for this?

 

[killatopak]

They didn't really decide to make an Xbox port, they are just contractually obligated to do so per some parity agreement between Sega (the publisher) and Microsoft signed in 2020, which noted that any future games published by Sega on the PS5 would have to be simultaneously released on the Series X|S as well.

Now all Sega studios and partners are paying the consequences of that terrible deal.

That sucks. Now I’m stuck imagining how much more content there could have been if they had more money instead of using it for porting.

Them running out of money kinda explains the amount of VA it has on JP/NA side. A lot of characters reportedly gets voiced by a single VA.

 

[Perrott]

How do we know this?

It was among the leaked documents and emails from the FTC court case regarding the ABK acquisition.

It is the reason why there wasn't a PS5 version of Yakuza: Like a Dragon at launch:

Leaked Microsoft documents explain why Yakuza: Like a Dragon was briefly a timed next-gen exclusive

When Yakuza: Like a Dragon released in 2020, there was an odd situation where the PS5 version released four months afte…

www.eurogamer.net

What would Sega get out of of that deal?
Do you have any sources for this?

I assume Sega got a big bag of cash at the time, as an incentive for wanting to support the Xbox platform (because up to that point, they had no financial reason to do so).

 

[Magic Carpet]

Dragons Crown on the Vita was the last Vanilla Ware game I bought. Years ago I bought a Tiki Fairy 1:1 scale figure at an anime convention. Comes with a bag of plastic coins.

PC may be the only way I would buy anymore of these types of games. I like the look of them.

 

[Celcius]

We need some billionaire gamer to fund PC ports of all their games just for the good of the community.

 

[Topher]

It was among the leaked documents and emails from the FTC court case regarding the ABK acquisition.

It is the reason why there wasn't a PS5 version of Yakuza: Like a Dragon at launch:

Leaked Microsoft documents explain why Yakuza: Like a Dragon was briefly a timed next-gen exclusive

When Yakuza: Like a Dragon released in 2020, there was an odd situation where the PS5 version released four months afte…

www.eurogamer.net

I assume Sega got a big bag of cash at the time, as an incentive for wanting to support the Xbox platform (because up to that point, they had no financial reason to do so).

Yeah, I just found the NeoGAF thread discussing this.

The Mystery of Yakuza: Like a Dragon's Brief 'Next-gen Exclusivity' on Xbox Finally Solved - T'was Sega's Own Doing

TL;DR - They signed exclusivity in Japan w/ Sony - They signed platform parity w/ Xbox - Because of the parity, they couldn't release the game early in Japan on PS5 - Nothing stopped them from releasing at the same time in the US but they likely didn't have it fully worked (or didn't want to...

www.neogaf.com

Definitely a shitty deal for folks like Vanillaware who are going to get little return on an Xbox port.

 

[Sentenza]

So frustratinig to hear because I know the Vanillaware collection (Particularly this game, 13 Sentinels, Dragon's Crown, Odin Sphere) would do really well on Steam, but Kamitani has said in the past that he doesn't like the PC platform and probably doesn't want to risk releasing on PC without knowing it'd be worth it. Classic Catch 22 type shit.

If I hit the lotto tomorrow I'd fund PC ports of the entire Vanillaware Catalogue.

SEGA proposed at some point to fund their ports and they still didn't want to do it.
Because, as you said, the guy has some weird irrational bias against the platform.

Someone should tell me again... Why are we supposed to feel bad for this moron?

 

[Topher]

We need some billionaire gamer to fund PC ports of all their games just for the good of the community.

Can't really think of a good reason not to port games to PC from a business standpoint. I look at Vanillaware's back catalog and I see a few games that could be cash cows on Steam. But if Vanillaware just prefers to stick to their guns and run out of money all the time.....

 

[Orbital2060]

They didn't really decide to make an Xbox port, they are just contractually obligated to do so per some parity agreement between Sega (the publisher) and Microsoft signed in 2020, which noted that any future games published by Sega on the PS5 would have to be simultaneously released on the Series X|S as well.

Now all Sega studios and partners are paying the consequences of that terrible deal.

How is that a terrible deal? It doesnt cost them anything.

Its awesome that more people can play their games.