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[ReBurn]

It's cool if devs want to see themselves reflected in their work. But if they work at a company that exists to make a profit from selling games their first priority is always going to have to be making a game people want to buy. As we're seeing over and over again, when the way they choose to see themselves reflected is through a focus on identity politics most people don't buy their work.

 

[Crayon]

Pretty mild, inoffensive statement. It's not like they're lashing out at gamers here.

 

[simpatico]

That person is absolutely right. We must demand publishers lay off the mentally ill. We don't want their illness reflected in the work. Honestly they're probably better off without a job.

 

[Fake]

This modern devs patern are so damn predictable.
They should write a book about every single time in the end they play the victim.

 

[Rubim]

It's fine and kinda charming/heartwarming.
Actually the characters can be pretty relatable and the lore is very extensive if you read into in in the game

Maybe with a huge discount i will check it out.

 

[Complistic]

I've regretfully played about 60 hours of it, and I can absolutely not wait for it to be over. It's the biggest 6/10 game I've ever played and I would recommend it to no one.

 

[LordCBH]

devs need to "see themselves reflected in their work"

Sure. That's fine. But when you're a team of absolute weirdos don't be shocked when the public rejects your game just like they reject you.

 

[Gonzito]

I've regretfully played about 60 hours of it, and I can absolutely not wait for it to be over. It's the biggest 6/10 game I've ever played and I would recommend it to no one.

The leaked videos were enough for me to know this game was going to be a mess

 

[Guilty_AI]

I've regretfully played about 60 hours of it, and I can absolutely not wait for it to be over. It's the biggest 6/10 game I've ever played and I would recommend it to no one.

Just drop it, there's no rule saying you have to finish games

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I don't see where she is attacking gamers or playing victim. Not sure I agree with the direction style, but then again I haven't played Veilguard. Seems to be a good game though.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

The main issue here is the level discrepancy between Devs and gamers.
To be a game dev, you need to be good, real good and to work hard.
To be a gamer, you need nothing.

So globally I'd say the average intellectual level of game Devs is far higher than gamers.

And this reflects highly in the discussions I see here and there and the clash of position.

 

[AmuroChan]

We went from "The customer is always right" to "If the customer doesn't like our product, they're a bigot".

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

People don't like shitty insane and disgusting agendas in games so of course people going to hate it and rightfully so. The game was crap and with one of the worst characters in gaming.

 

[Fabieter]

They went a little overboard with the Taash stuff, remove all that and it's a pretty competent and shockingly un-broken game, relative to most modern releases.

A man hating trans gender teacher is a little bit too much?

 

[Braag]

She made a game that appeals specifically to her, cool I guess. That doesn't mean the game will appeal to the masses however.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

I've regretfully played about 60 hours of it, and I can absolutely not wait for it to be over. It's the biggest 6/10 game I've ever played and I would recommend it to no one.

It can be over much sooner. Just stop playing.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

All art is going to be influenced by the artists' life experiences, worldview, etc.

But when it has heavy handed moralizing and lecturing, obvious self insert characters, and handles certain characters/viewpoints with kid gloves, then it barely qualifies as art anymore. Now it's just propaganda, and propaganda is always shit.

FFS they took a D&D/GoT inspired dark fantasy world and made a storyline about a girl telling her mom she's nonbinary and wants to use they/them pronouns. This shit is indistinguishable from parody.

 

[ChoosableOne]

 

[chakadave]

The main issue here is the level discrepancy between Devs and gamers.
To be a game dev, you need to be good, real good and to work hard.
To be a gamer, you need nothing.

So globally I'd say the average intellectual level of game Devs is far higher than gamers.

And this reflects highly in the discussions I see here and there and the clash of position.

I'd like to see the stats. I'd guess there is a wide range of players.

They wouldn't have money if they were successful professionally.

Computer programming isn't some special skill only smart people do.

In fact I'd bet the devs are trending down because they don't actually do programming or engine creation anymore. The carmacs and such aren't in the industry anymore.

 

[adamsapple]

A man hating trans gender teacher is a little bit too much?

I'm removing the art from the artist.

The taash content is the only real eyebrow-raising thing in the game for me in that how over they went.

 

[Deerock71]

Can they see themselves in an unemployment line?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

All art is going to be influenced by the artists' life experiences, worldview, etc.

But when it has heavy handed moralizing and lecturing, obvious self insert characters, and handles certain characters/viewpoints with kid gloves, then it barely qualifies as art anymore. Now it's just propaganda, and propaganda is always shit.

FFS they took a D&D/GoT inspired dark fantasy world and made a storyline about a girl telling her mom she's nonbinary and wants to use they/them pronouns. This shit is indistinguishable from parody.

you famous mike wazowski

 

[Raven117]

You put out a game that people don't want. Just man up and fuck off.

Also don't play victim when you attack your customers from the get go.

Next up, Avowed.

It's this simple.

They are such talentless arrogant hacks that they can't see they just made a mediocre game. "Inclusion" isn't what turned people off of the game (see Ie, Baldurs Gate 3, plenty of that stuff in there, no issue whatsoever as the game was quality and it was all done well).

It was the clumsy, preachy, bad writing way mixed with an uninspired game that turned people off.

Not rocket science dude

 

[Raven117]

Devs can put as much of themselves into their games, as much as they/them want.

Doesn't mean I have to buy or play it...

Yup. And they can't stand that you can choose what you want.

That is not what I was saying, though. Emphasis is on "rubbing it under the nose of the recipient". By the way, no, art hasn't "always" been political, your history of art otherwise couldn't go farther back than say 100 years at best. For example, during the entire middle ages, artists were replicating nature in their works, and their work was always based on a specific commission by some worldly elite. And yes, modern art has always been very political. However, an artist is smart enough to not let petty day to day politics contaminate his work. The piece will have meaning on a political level and might even comment on relatively specific issues political in nature. But it will always leave the work as whole open to interpretation by the recipient to avoid insulting the intellect of the viewer/reader/listener.

Edit: I have to correct myself, its more like 150 years instead of 100 for art being somewhat political, depending on where you draw the line blah blah blah

Art has always been controversial if not political. That's a good thing. But it's hard to think of a piece of art that you engage with for 40 hours. (Maybe literature, but you are going to approach literature differently and not entertainment)

 

[Complistic]

The leaked videos were enough for me to know this game was going to be a mess

I knew it was a mess, that's why I played it. It's the whole watching the train wreck thing.

It can be over much sooner. Just stop playing.

Supposedly the last bits not awful so I'm gonna see it through at this point. I'm like 4 hours from the end I think.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I knew it was a mess, that's why I played it. It's the whole watching the train wreck thing.

Man…. To each his own, but I will never understand spending $50 and 40 hours playing a game just to see how shitty it is.

 

[Kronark]

lol like that would make any difference to the backlash, look at the reception to Intergalactic simply having a bald women.

It's unfortunately a reflection of the relationship with the audience and how bad it's gotten. No one ten years ago would have batted an eye but people seem to be out for blood. There is zero trust right now with Naughty Dog and how TLOU 2 was handled.

I try to be reasonable about what I do and don't like regarding "wokeness" in games but you're always going to find ignorant assholes screaming about how the Witcher went woke for simply having a female lead. We need to do more to tell those people to fuck off because they're becoming emboldened lately. Without getting too political, it seems like the internet just makes people extremists over time on any issue.

 

[Dynasty8]

you famous mike wazowski

Awesome video. She always provides good insights with her industry experience.

 

[DJ12]

lol your one man marketing campaign for this game is making me tempted to pick it up during the sales season.

Save your money, it's free on psn+

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The main issue here is the level discrepancy between Devs and gamers.
To be a game dev, you need to be good, real good and to work hard.
To be a gamer, you need nothing.

So globally I'd say the average intellectual level of game Devs is far higher than gamers.

And this reflects highly in the discussions I see here and there and the clash of position.

This is a dumb analogy if I ever saw one. So engineers can't play videogames?

 

[Complistic]

Man…. To each his own, but I will never understand spending $50 and 40 hours playing a game just to see how shitty it is.

About half the game was enjoyable, the combat loops fine for a bit and the environments are nice the first time you go through them. You just gotta be in the right headspace to "enjoy" the cringe.

The last 15 hours or so have been the drag.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Game developers also need to feel safe in what they do, which ultimately means being able to see themselves reflected in their work.

Bullshit, what kind of floaty hippy nonsense is this?
These are commercial products, not personal projects; do your job or just leave.

 

[MayauMiao]

So globally I'd say the average intellectual level of game Devs is far higher than gamers.

 

[rofif]

Maybe with a huge discount i will check it out.

It already is on huge discount on pc and free on psn lol.
Get it you dipshit. It's one best best 2023 games, if not the best.

 

[cormack12]

The main issue here is the level discrepancy between Devs and gamers.
To be a game dev, you need to be good, real good and to work hard.
To be a gamer, you need nothing.

So globally I'd say the average intellectual level of game Devs is far higher than gamers.

And this reflects highly in the discussions I see here and there and the clash of position.

2024: A group of intellectuals gather to be intellectual.

You're mistaking technical proficiency in a skillet for being intellectual. Do you think someone who works in the mod scene is an intellectual? Or someone who works in CGI for films?

Sure, the absolute pinnacle of game programmers are going to be really, really intelligent, but by and large the people making assholes of themselves do not fall into that 1% (most actually seem to be in the art and writing teams).

That's like saying you can't criticise an original composition because we only have ears and don't need anything for that. Whereas you need to be a genius to be a composer.

 

[Humdinger]

I think AngryJoe made some good points about this game in his various rants. He talked about how soft the game was, in tone and writing. How little violence there was, while showing clips from the older games and how adult they were.

Yeah, it's the product of people who have been indoctrinated into "safe space" culture. You hear it in his/her statements, too: we needed to feel represented in the game or we wouldn't feel "safe."

It's a very weird stance for a writer. I have never in my life heard a writer say that he shapes his story in order that he can feel "safe."

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Yeah, it's the product of people who have been indoctrinated into "safe space" culture. You hear it in his/her statements, too: we needed to feel represented in the game or we wouldn't feel "safe."

It's a very weird stance for a writer. I have never in my life heard a writer say that he shapes his story in order that he can feel "safe."

Because they aren't true writers. Like actors, writers must put themselves in the shoes of many different people, and think and speak like them. There are no "safe spaces". It takes a lot of practice and a bit of talent to do it right. It's infuriating what these pretenders are doing to the profession.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

 

[Astray]

Save your money, it's free on psn+

I don't sub to PSN.

 

[Techno_Inked]

"It's hard. I grew up in a time when it really felt like we're there to celebrate the games and to have these shared experiences, and that drive is still there."
Dragon Age is far from the only game that's come under fire recently, particularly for inclusions of diversity, or diverse storytelling.

Wtf is he talking about?? Games are still being celebrated, just shitty ass games like yours get burned to the ground.
DEI also isn't the issue for most, if it was genuine and incorporated into the game in a way which makes sense.
However, most just shoehorn meaningless DEI shit in their games just so they can shove their meaningless shit down our throats.
That is morally unethical, financially dumb af, creatively nonsensical and creativity deprived.

 

[Humdinger]

Because they aren't true writers. Like actors, writers must put themselves in the shoes of many different people, and think and speak like them. There are no "safe spaces". It takes a lot of practice and a bit of talent to do it right. It's infuriating what these pretenders are doing to the profession.

He/she/they qualify as a writer, just not a good one. There are a lot of shitty writers in the world - just check the bookshelves, lol.

I'm thinking of all the good writers I know. All of them take risks. None of them would speak this way - about wanting to feel "safe." And they certainly wouldn't say they needed to feel "represented" in their own creation, so they could feel "safe." They'd be laughed out of the room.

It's part of the weird bubble these people have cultivated for themselves. Hunkered down with their teddy bears and cookies, "traumatized" by opinions they don't agree with...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Companies can make whatever they want, even though you'd think common sense business says you should make a good product for the people (target audience). Making self serving products just limits the sales, and even worse pisses off customers who liked the old products (old DA games).

I can see an artist who doesn't give a shit about corporate business making whatever vase or painting he wants in his basement. What's at stake is zero except for him getting lucky selling it for $100. But big companies with billions of dollars on the line, tons of employees, shareholders, bank loans etc.... you'd think they'd put a bit more focus on selling a good product for the people. Not a product reflecting personal politics of the employees.

And the funny thing about political products, reflecting their lives into the work doesn't even make sense because a company like EA has probably 10,000 employees. Why would a handful of writers or graphic artists call the shots, when there's chance the rest of the departments might not want that in the product. I dont get a sense your typical sales, finance, IT guy, legal team, etc... care much about political messages in a video game. Yet a small number of game makers can sink the product's success by injecting personal issues into it.

Video game companies and their employees are weird.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Capitalism is sorting this problem out, people will either make things people want to buy or they will go bankrupt

It's just taking a really long time because a lot of these media companies are so big and powerful now and control the thoughts of so many people

 

[kubricks]

Do these fucktards realize they are making a commerical product? Ie., you SELL these stuff to people for money?
And what do they mean "Campaign"? You are not important enough to have anyone forming a campaign against you. At most people laugh at your stupidity, make a comment or two and move on with their lives.

Game devs need to get use to just doing their job, and keep their feelings to themselves, like litterially EVERY OTHER fucking professions.

 

[Fess]

Sounds like the devs are using the game for therapy or some ego trip thing. Why do they feel like they have to put so much of themselves into the game?? It's a fantasy game. Let it stay as fantasy.

 

[Syphon Filter]

you see, its an agenda being pushed. they said it themselves that devs need to see themselves reflected. and people think people are crazy for calling it out.

 

[Azure Crystal Gaming]

 

[Kataploom]

I mean, I'm ok with that, he's right but there are marketable artistic views and others that aren't, I can have the amazing idea of making my next big story about a crab trying to walking forward and not just left and right, but who's gonna give a shit? Well if I and my fellows from the industry all start telling stories about crabs out of nowhere and call people that don't like crabs "crabists" just because they prefer sharks or shrimps and even make some of them lose their jobs and ruin their lives, of course people not only not gonna give a shit about crabs but will also get against them out of resentment.

That's exactly how it works, make something marketable and make your own views not effect majority of people's games and everyone will be good.

 

[Skifi28]

Capitalism WILL eventually win out.

At some point EA is going to care much less about inclusion and diversity and much more about profit.

It always comes down to $$$$ eventually

I agree, but it's crazy how it's taken so long already. The western videogame industry will nearly go bankrupt before self-correcting.

 

[Zacfoldor]