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[clav]

smh

Looks like metered internet is the future.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QGPQM81.htm

Verizon Communications Inc. is investing billions in replacing copper phone lines with optical fiber, for TV service and faster Internet speeds. It is alone among major U.S. phone companies in doing this. But the project only covers about two-thirds of Verizon's local-phone territory.

On a call with investors and analysts Friday, chief financial officer Fran Shammo indicated that if broadband speeds are going to improve in non-FiOS areas, it will be through Verizon Wireless' new "4G LTE" data network.

QUESTION: Can you update us on your need or interest in investing in improving broadband in non-FiOS areas?

RESPONSE (CFO Shammo): Obviously our strategy is to complete the 18 million (home) build for FiOS and transition that. And as you know, we've really concentrated on investing in FiOS and curtailing the investment in the copper network and moving people from copper to FiOS. And that is a big strategic initiative that (CEO Lowell McAdam) has set out for the business to accomplish.

Now those lines that are outside that FiOS and outside of any potential of passing ever with FiOS -- we will continue to be competitive in this area but I think it's going to be around LTE. We're not going to invest a lot of capital in the copper core network in those outlying areas. But I think we have a strategic bundle that we can go into those households with, give them a better experience than what they're currently having on their DSL line from a bundling of the wireless portfolio that we have. So that's the strategy that we're going to deploy.

Side note: Did you know the US government gave billions of dollars away back in the 90s to the telecoms (AT&T and Verizon) who promised to build service for 45 Mbps bidirectional (download and upload) for fiber optic Internet?

However, after deregulation in 1996, all the telecoms stopped building out their services. Supposedly the money has went into lobbying and perhaps executives bonuses.

The government questioned where was this network, the telecoms pointed to the existing copper POTS wiring and said that's our broadband.

Look at what that has gotten the USA today as opposed to other countries. If you use the argument that other countries have a smaller footprint, then how come the major cities in the US still don't have Internet speeds that can't compete with those countries?

 

[clip]

Hooray, 3 mbps forever

 

[Shiggie]

Fuck you Verizon. Still no Fios in Brooklyn.

 

[RBH]

Shit.

 

[ezrarh]

Gotta love the free market.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Fuck you Verizon. Still no Fios in Brooklyn.

Sooooo happy I moved from there this last summer.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Motherfuckers. We need more competition. One of few areas where a free market would really shine, and we legislate it to death. I dont want to play games over LTE in its current state.

 

[jmdajr]

pathetic

I guess dsl forever

 

[Snaku]

Capitalism is why we can't have nice things.

Go fuck yourself, Verizon.

 

[Wads]

Ugh, so close too.... Fios is LA but not where I am...

 

[commish]

Shiggie, there is definitely Fios in Brooklyn. Both my GF and I have it.

 

[sangreal]

They stopped expanding in early 2010

Also, I have 45mbps bidirectional service from Verizon so I guess I'm good

 

[Xal-Shoota]

Google...your our only hope now.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/05/google-fiber-expands-to-the-other-kansas-city.ars

 

[diffusionx]

They stopped expanding FiOS last year.

Laggy 4G/LTE is NOT I repeat NOT a replacement for good wired broadband. Verizon should be laughed out of the room for even suggesting it.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Wow, this is complete BS. I currently live in the middle of the metroplex so I can get ATT Uverse no program. However, my parents house on the outskirts of the metroplex can only get DSL. I plan on owning that house someday because I love the location and neighborhood. If they are telling me I will only be able to get DSL or Wireless 4G for my "metered" internet then I will be furious.

But what could we possible do about this unless the government forces them to invest in expanding fiber?

 

[clav]

They stopped expanding in early 2010

The reason was Verizon was waiting for a return in its investment to FiOS which should have been completed a decade ago.

This news is perhaps the biggest middle finger I have seen.

But what could we possible do about this unless the government forces them to invest in expanding fiber?

The government tried, but the telecoms wanted deregulation and started cannibalizing each other.

 

[kehs]

More room for Google to completely own your asshole Verizon.

GG.


---

FCC: Net neutrality on hard lines only.

Verizon: Okay! LOL

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Meh, 53 down, 8 up. I'm happy with Optonline. But yea, my mom's place has FIOS and it's damned consistent.

I really don't want to see metered internet. While it's perfectly legit in theory the price per GB is beyond unreasonable.

 

[makingmusic476]

New Orleans is an outlying area? So we're stuck with AT&T and Cox. Yay.

 

[Cheeto]

Gotta love the free market.

I can feel the invisible hand fisting me right now

 

[Pctx]

Verizon Communications Inc. and Verizon Wireless are two different companies.

Obviously Verizon Inc. isn't going to spend any more capital on FiOS because their ROI is garbage. Here in Oregon, Verizon somehow managed to offload the FiOS to Frontier Communications and in just 6 short months, FiOS installs went from free to $500+ bucks to get it installed.

From an ISP perspective, this competition or lack thereof is getting really annoying. Like most who have FiOS, I'm grandfathered into a 25/25 plan and don't plan on changing that ever unless I have to. Ironically I called and signed up the day before they switched over to Frontier and I haven't had any service related problems but still.

Not surprising to see Verizon culling people towards LTE to serve their internet needs.

 

[sangreal]

The reason was Verizon was waiting for a return in its investment to FiOS which should have been completed a decade ago.

This news is perhaps the biggest middle finger I have seen.

I'm really not sure what news you're seeing here. First, as you concede, they stopped expanding to new areas last year. So let's take a look at this statement:

RESPONSE (CFO Shammo): Obviously our strategy is to complete the 18 million (home) build for FiOS and transition that.

Build-out in the existing areas is not complete, contrary to thread title.

Now those lines that are outside that FiOS and outside of any potential of passing ever with FiOS -- we will continue to be competitive in this area but I think it's going to be around LTE. We're not going to invest a lot of capital in the copper core network in those outlying areas.

Outlying areas that we have no intention of ever expanding to will be serviced with LTE

This does not say that they will never resume expanding FIOS

 

[dabig2]

Google gods...save us!

 

[Tideas]

Side note: Did you know the US government gave billions of dollars away back in the 90s to the telecoms (AT&T and Verizon) who promised to build service for 45 Mbps bidirectional (download and upload) for fiber optic Internet?
?

proof?

 

[GoutPatrol]

Fuck you Verizon. Still no Fios in Brooklyn.

My parents just got FIOS in Manhattan, first one in their building. Woooooo-

 

[MetatronM]

Well...I've got my FiOS, so I'm fine.

Really pathetic that genuinely fast internet is still in limited supply in this country in 2011.

Even my office here in midtown Manhattan only has the option of either a ridiculously expensive 3 down/3 up T1 connection (which is what we use) or an affordable but crippled 7.1 down/768k up DSL connection. And as a media company, bandwidth is something we really really do need. My bottom of the barrel cheapo FiOS connection costs only barely more than one tenth of what we spend for internet here in the office for triple the bandwidth. It's utterly absurd.

 

[clav]

Build-out in the existing areas is not complete, contrary to thread title.

The only build out that Verizon has promised is New York by 2014 except three areas (e.g. Long Island, Buffalo) since Verizon signed an agreement to build the entire state although they are willing to pay fines for not completing some areas.

Outlying areas that we have no intention of ever expanding to will be serviced with LTE

This does not say that they will never resume expanding FIOS

Verizon is taking a shortcut here.

I know the local city council in my area had a dispute with Verizon and NextGNetworks (http://www.nextgnetworks.net/nextg/) as Verizon wanted to build towers here. Local residents protested, so some of the mapping was reproposed.

There are no signs of FiOS being deployed in my area (e.g. no boxes, no wiring, no digging), so the matter is that it seems clear Verizon is going to use LTE as the FiOS replacement. This is not the first time this strategy has been hinted.

This news piece confirms it.

Verizon knows FTTH is too costly for rural areas despite the neighboring cities around me who have it.

proof?

The book (free): http://www.teletruth.org/docs/broadbandscandalfree.pdf

Press:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_20070810_002683.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/11/technology/11online.ready.html

 

[Dead Man]

proof?

I believe he is referring to the NII:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Information_Infrastructure

 

[chaosblade]

Meh, 53 down, 8 up. I'm happy with Optonline. But yea, my mom's place has FIOS and it's damned consistent.

I really don't want to see metered internet. While it's perfectly legit in theory the price per GB is beyond unreasonable.

I think most people would be happy with those speeds. I mean, that's almost 10 times as fast as what we're paying $50 a month for.

 

[Josh7289]

I want extreme government intervention and investment in fiber deployment in the United States.

 

[B!TCH]

But LTE and wireless broadband is the future is it not? I don't think metered internet will be an issue once the networks are robust enough to handle all that traffic and people are actually prepared to go wireless only over wired in the home (it will be just like it is now with wired broadband with a "theoretical" limit most people never hit).

 

[clav]

I want extreme government intervention and investment in fiber deployment in the United States.

If I remember correctly from the State of the Union address, Obama says our plans are to build out wireless Internet, not wired.

But LTE and wireless broadband is the future is it not? I don't think metered internet will be an issue once the networks are robust enough to handle all that traffic and people are actually prepared to go wireless only over wired in the home (it will be just like it is now with wired broadband with a "theoretical" limit most people never hit).

If metered wireless Internet is already for smartphone users, what makes you think that plan won't be migrated for home users?

I could see Verizon use a higher cap (5-10 GB), but it doesn't make sense for the average household.

 

[Josh7289]

If I remember correctly from the State of the Union address, Obama says our plans are to build out wireless Internet, not wired.

That is very disappointing.

 

[CrankyJay]

So I assume with LTE they'll cap it for home use? If so...fucking Verizon...

 

[gcubed]

October 2011 - Verizon realized that FTTH is really really expensive

 

[B!TCH]

If metered wireless Internet is already for smartphone users, what makes you think that plan won't be migrated for home users?

I could see Verizon use a higher cap (5-10 GB), but it doesn't make sense for the average household.

Because of the reasons data caps exist now? The networks aren't robust enough to handle a lot of traffic. I'm not cynical about this so I imagine them gradually getting lifted as time goes on and the networks get better. I'm not talking about 6 months or a year from now, but I think by the end of the decade this won't be an issue.

 

[clav]

Because of the reasons data caps exist now? The networks aren't robust enough to handle a lot of traffic. I'm not cynical about this so I imagine them gradually getting lifted as time goes on and the networks get better. I'm not talking about 6 months or a year from now, but I think by the end of the decade this won't be an issue.

What would compel the networks to lift the overage fees when they're making OS manufacturers install data meter usages (e.g. Android ICS, Windows 8) for devices?

Is there any competition that will force carriers to lift caps?

There is always going to be the argument to make your compression tools better.

 

[gcubed]

Because of the reasons data caps exist now? The networks aren't robust enough to handle a lot of traffic. I'm not cynical about this so I imagine them gradually getting lifted as time goes on and the networks get better. I'm not talking about 6 months or a year from now, but I think by the end of the decade this won't be an issue.

they will always there to catch the big users, but as usage rises, i think the caps will as well

 

[C.Dark.DN]

My local power board brought us fiber optic internet and pissed off Comcast in the process. We actually can get the fastest in the nation. 1GB upload and download for $350.

Fuck Verizons and Comcasts.

 

[jorma]

That is very disappointing.

Well Verizon obviously disagrees with you, and you much did YOU contribute to the democratic process? Not as much as Verizon i bet! =)

 

[Sky Chief]

Capitalism is why we can't have nice things.

Go fuck yourself, Verizon.

It's not capitalism. Capitalism implies that there is COMPETITION

 

[Jarmel]

So how long will it take for Google to roll out their network?

 

[Josh7289]

Well Verizon obviously disagrees with you, and you much did YOU contribute to the democratic process? Not as much as Verizon i bet! =)

That's terrible. If I could I would crush them.

 

[Neuromancer]

I guess I'm lucky I got my FIOS when I did. =\

Verizon is still kind of shitty, they took away my AMC HD for no reason and won't give it back unless I buy some kind of premium HD bundle. For a cable channel!

 

[chaosblade]

they will always there to catch the big users, but as usage rises, i think the caps will as well

Over time? Sure, but they want to catch people going over the caps, it's the whole reason they are there. Ars had an article last year about TWC and bandwidth caps, and the basic conclusion was that their profits are higher and don't necessitate caps, but they are adding them to get extra income from heavy users that watch a lot of movies and shows on Netflix and the like. There isn't any reason to assume other providers are any different, and the same will apply to wireless.

 

[gcubed]

So how long will it take for Google to roll out their network?

never.

a company trying to post a profit and compete in the marketplace today will not be able to roll out full fiber with high speeds for quite a while. Your only bet is the government

Over time? Sure, but they want to catch people going over the caps, it's the whole reason they are there. Ars had an article last year about TWC and bandwidth caps, and the basic conclusion was that their profits are higher and don't necessitate caps, but they are adding them to get extra income from heavy users that watch a lot of movies and shows on Netflix and the like. There isn't any reason to assume other providers are any different, and the same will apply to wireless.

we agree

 

[sangreal]

The only build out that Verizon has promised is New York by 2014 except three areas (e.g. Long Island, Buffalo) since Verizon signed an agreement to build the entire state although they are willing to pay fines for not completing some areas.



Verizon is taking a shortcut here.

I know the local city council in my area had a dispute with Verizon and NextGNetworks (http://www.nextgnetworks.net/nextg/) as Verizon wanted to build towers here. Local residents protested, so some of the mapping was reproposed.

There are no signs of FiOS being deployed in my area (e.g. no boxes, no wiring, no digging), so the matter is that it seems clear Verizon is going to use LTE as the FiOS replacement. This is not the first time this strategy has been hinted.

This news piece confirms it.

Verizon knows FTTH is too costly for rural areas despite the neighboring cities around me who have it.



The book (free): http://www.teletruth.org/docs/broadbandscandalfree.pdf

Press:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_20070810_002683.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/11/technology/11online.ready.html

So in other words, you're upset that Verizon seems to have no intention of coming to your town so you rile up a bunch of idiots that can't/won't read the article by implying that Verizon is never going to add another FIOS installation and LTE is the only option moving forward.

 

[B!TCH]

What would compel the networks to lift the overage fees when they're making OS manufacturers install data meter usages (e.g. Android ICS, Windows 8) for devices?

Is there any competition that will force carriers to lift caps?

There is always going to be the argument to make your compression tools better.

Look, you are thinking about this very near term, and you are not looking at the big picture of where things are going. Just because that is what is happening now with the networks as they exist now doesn't mean that's the way it will continue indefinitely as those networks change and get better. I understand that I'm more optimistic about these things than you are but I think optimism (not cynicism) will win out in the end.

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

Because of the reasons data caps exist now? The networks aren't robust enough to handle a lot of traffic. I'm not cynical about this so I imagine them gradually getting lifted as time goes on and the networks get better. I'm not talking about 6 months or a year from now, but I think by the end of the decade this won't be an issue.

I like how you actually believe this.

 

[clav]

So in other words, you're upset that Verizon seems to have no intention of coming to your town so you rile up a bunch of idiots that can't/won't read the article by implying that Verizon is never going to add another FIOS installation and LTE is the only option moving forward.

It's not just my town. Even areas that have FiOS buildouts can be halted forever because Verizon hasn't seen the return for residents to adopt the service.

As I said before, the only state that Verizon signed to complete FiOS is New York.

What makes you think that same idea is not going to be for other cities out there?