Support NeoGAF

[gcubed]

So in other words, you're upset that Verizon seems to have no intention of coming to your town so you rile up a bunch of idiots that can't/won't read the article by implying that Verizon is never going to add another FIOS installation and LTE is the only option moving forward.

they announced last year they were stopping expanding. They are focusing on the existing plans they have approval for now and are stopping. Its not really new news, certainly not something to get all huffy about

 

[Megadragon15]

New Orleans is an outlying area? So we're stuck with AT&T and Cox. Yay.

Verizon normally doesn't build/service AT&T territory.

 

[Stat Flow]

That really sucks. I think my area was one of the last places to get FiOS too. It's so fucking great and a ridiculous jump over DSL.

 

[B!TCH]

I like how you actually believe this.

Sure, but "caps" exist now for wired broadband and most people don't go over them so it isn't really an issue for most people.

 

[sangreal]

they announced last year they were stopping expanding. They are focusing on the existing plans they have approval for now and are stopping. Its not really new news, certainly not something to get all huffy about

Really?

 

[clav]

Look, you are thinking about this very near term, and you are not looking at the big picture of where things are going. Just because that is what is happening now with the networks as they exist now doesn't mean that's the way it will continue indefinitely as those networks change and get better. I understand that I'm more optimistic about these things than you are but I think optimism (not cynicism) will win out in the end.

I think you're naive in your statements.

We'll see how it plays out. I can hope that you are right, but I just don't see telecoms turning around in their business practices.

The telecoms squandered their government money by not improving their networks back in the 90s and early 2000s. Then they overcharged for service.

 

[Krauser Kat]

My local power board brought us fiber optic internet and pissed off Comcast in the process. We actually can get the fastest in the nation. 1GB upload and download for $350.

Fuck Verizons and Comcasts.

Every story i have heard about municipalities building networks for their towns has been meet with praise and crazy fast internet.

 

[Something Wicked]

"It may not be profitable for the company or such expansion would have a high level of risk, but I WANT IT NOW! BOO, CAPITALISM!!"

 

[sangreal]

It's not just my town. Even areas that have FiOS buildouts can be halted forever because Verizon hasn't seen the return for residents to adopt the service.

As I said before, the only state that Verizon signed to complete FiOS is New York.

What makes you think that same idea is not going to be for other cities out there?

I'm not privy to Verizon's plans, nor am I a fortune teller. I have no idea whether Verizon will some day stop installing in their existing areas or if they will ever expand to more areas. However, this article does say that they will continue the buildout in their existing areas and then goes on to say that in areas they will never expand to LTE will be the option. The quote specifically separates these areas from areas that simply do not have FIOS at present.

 

[mckmas8808]

I have Verizon FIOS and it's lovely. To bad they stopped rolling it out.

 

[Fusion Pizza]

Fuck.This.Noise.

/rage

 

[ShOcKwAvE]

I'm on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and my building has no FiOS option. I had it in Bergan County, NJ just last year.

Not happy with Time Warner

 

[sonycowboy]

Verizon ran Fios lines through my development in late Spring... They still show FIOS as not available...

 

[clav]

I'm not privy to Verizon's plans, nor am I a fortune teller. I have no idea whether Verizon will some day stop installing in their existing areas or if they will ever expand to more areas. However, this article does say that they will continue the buildout in their existing areas and then goes on to say that in areas they will never expand to LTE will be the option. The quote specifically separates these areas from areas that simply do not have FIOS at present.

AT&T did a build out number for Uverse as they, too, have stopped expanding FTTC.

From the quote, the CFO said 18 million, which to me, doesn't sound even close to the number of the whole US population.

Given how Verizon is building out FTTH, it seems advantageous to them to build it out in metro areas.

Seems like to me if you don't live in the city, then you're sol unless Verizon was kind enough to drag a line for your home.

I'm on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and my building has no FiOS option. I had it in Bergan County, NJ just last year.

Not happy with Time Warner

You guys are supposed to get it by 2014. Just keep waiting.

 

[CrankyJay]

It's not just my town. Even areas that have FiOS buildouts can be halted forever because Verizon hasn't seen the return for residents to adopt the service.

As I said before, the only state that Verizon signed to complete FiOS is New York.

What makes you think that same idea is not going to be for other cities out there?

Buffalo NY is one of those areas...not sure if FiOS will ever get built out town my town.

 

[sangreal]

AT&T did a build out number for Uverse as they, too, have stopped expanding FTTC.

From the quote, the CFO said 18 million, which to me, doesn't sound even close to the number of the whole US population.

Given how Verizon is building out FTTH, it seems advantageous to them to build it out in metro areas.

Seems like to me if you don't live in the city, then you're sol unless Verizon was kind enough to drag a line for your home.



You guys are supposed to get it by 2014. Just keep waiting.

18 million has always been Verizon's number. All this article says is that they haven't completed that goal. It doesn't give us any information about their future plans once that is done, other than that some areas will be served by LTE.

I'm not saying what Verizon is going to do because I have no idea -- time will tell. All I'm saying is that this quote doesn't tell us. Even you merely claimed it "hints" at what their plans are.

 

[R2D4]

Didn't Google or some other company say those analog TV signals that were shut off a few years ago were going to be used for internet? They were going to be able to provide high speeds for large areas? Hows that working out?

 

[razgriz417]

Bull Fucking Shit, god I hate verizon. Been waiting to get fios for years. My friend 5 blocks down has had it for 5 years and they have yet to expand over 5 damn blocks

 

[thetrin]

We're never going to have flying cars because companies still make tons of money on cars that don't fly. This is why the future is not bright for any industry.

 

[FyreWulff]

"It may not be profitable for the company or such expansion would have a high level of risk, but I WANT IT NOW! BOO, CAPITALISM!!"

Good thing there was zero risk because we gave them mountains of money from the taxpayer to build it out...

 

[Raistlin]

Motherfuckers. We need more competition. One of few areas where a free market would really shine, and we legislate it to death. I dont want to play games over LTE in its current state.

The issue really isn't legislation. The reality is FiOS is quite expensive to install even after the initial expenditure of running the fiber into a neighborhood.

It takes years to break even on people that subscribe.

Capitalism is why we can't have nice things.

Go fuck yourself, Verizon.

So you'd prefer the government pays for it?

 

[clav]

18 million has always been Verizon's number. All this article says is that they haven't completed that goal. It doesn't give us any information about their future plans once that is done, other than that some areas will be served by LTE.

I'm not saying what Verizon is going to do because I have no idea -- time will tell. All I'm saying is that this quote doesn't tell us. Even you merely claimed it "hints" at what their plans are.

Currently, Verizon is in a "paused" state for FiOS as of last year. The only installations they are doing are areas that already have a fiber optic bucket/box mounted and New York.

In other words, nothing has changed and confirms that if no one in your city has FiOS, you will not be getting FiOS. If Verizon only built part of your city that's not in New York and your street/block doesn't have FiOS, you won't get FiOS.

I hope I'm wrong in my assessment, but it seems clear to me that Verizon doesn't want to continue FTTH for the masses.

The issue really isn't legislation. The reality is FiOS is quite expensive to install even after the initial expenditure of running the fiber into a neighborhood.

It takes years to break even on people that subscribe.






So you'd prefer the government pays for it?

The government did pay for FTTH back in the 90s though.

 

[jmdajr]

The LTE bandwidith caps are the biggest problem.

I mean 5gb.. for real?

If LTE is the solution then offer at least 250gb

...

fuck!

 

[Kibbles]

Our Google overlords will save us

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Fuck you Verizon. Still no Fios in Brooklyn.

the FUCK? none in brooklyn at all? thats alot of customers to say "meh" to.

 

[rapid32.5]

Bull Fucking Shit, god I hate verizon. Been waiting to get fios for years. My friend 5 blocks down has had it for 5 years and they have yet to expand over 5 damn blocks

know how you feel, my building still has no fios and our neighbors across the street have had it for years. Fios pole box less than 100 feet away.

 

[Krauser Kat]

The issue really isn't legislation. The reality is FiOS is quite expensive to install even after the initial expenditure of running the fiber into a neighborhood.

It takes years to break even on people that subscribe.






So you'd prefer the government pays for it?

I was referring to almost every other 1st world countries is the ability companies to rent and must rent the lines they laid to others to spur growth and competition. We did it for phone lines, but we have been lobbied out of doing it so far for cable and fibre optics.

 

[Raistlin]

The government did pay for FTTH back in the 90s though.

I'm not sure Verizon was part of that though, where they?

I didn't think they did TV back then, and only moved into post de-regulation? Certainly the cable companies did fuck us over plenty though ... I'm not disagreeing with that. Just not sure Verizon was part of it. But even if they were, I'm not sure that changes the scenario all that much. Continued expansion doesn't appear to be financially viable at this point.

The main hope is that they will continue in the future once costs have been recouped a bit. Interestingly whether that happens or not will actually be dictated by competition and the market environment. If wireless ends up proving popular and is more cost-effective - exactly how can people expect them to move forward? I suspect we'll see some expansion in the future, but I question how many new areas will get TV via FiOS given the market direction. Well ... unless they smarten up and offer something closer to a la carte. That could give them a competitive advantage.

 

[Raistlin]

I was referring to almost every other 1st world countries is the ability companies to rent and must rent the lines they laid to others to spur growth and competition. We did it for phone lines, but we have been lobbied out of doing it so far for cable and fibre optics.

I agree they should rent the lines (and many companies still do actually) ...

... this is a different issue though. The infrastructure simply isn't there to rent, and the costs in getting them there is pretty high.

 

[jorma]

The issue really isn't legislation. The reality is FiOS is quite expensive to install even after the initial expenditure of running the fiber into a neighborhood.

It takes years to break even on people that subscribe.

I don't think that's true at all. I pay 15 euro/month for 100/100 on a four year contract, and our housing association still owns the connection to the backbone so we can renegotiate with any other provider after those four years. It can't be that expensive to install because the offering would be attractive even at twice the price.

 

[Chuck (Old)]

Save us, Google!

 

[gcubed]

I'm not sure Verizon was part of that though, where they?

I didn't think they did TV back then, and only moved into post de-regulation? Certainly the cable companies did fuck us over plenty though ... I'm not disagreeing with that. Just not sure Verizon was part of it. But even if they were, I'm not sure that changes the scenario all that much. Continued expansion doesn't appear to be financially viable at this point.

The main hope is that they will continue in the future once costs have been recouped a bit. Interestingly whether that happens or not will actually be dictated by competition and the market environment. If wireless ends up proving popular and is more cost-effective - exactly how can people expect them to move forward? I suspect we'll see some expansion in the future, but I question how many new areas will get TV via FiOS given the market direction. Well ... unless they smarten up and offer something closer to a la carte. That could give them a competitive advantage.

cable companies had nothing to do with it. It was all telcos.

Place your rage in the right place.

 

[CrankyJay]

I don't think that's true at all. I pay 15 euro/month for 100/100 on a four year contract, and our housing association still owns the connection to the backbone so we can renegotiate with any other provider after those four years. It can't be that expensive to install because the offering would be attractive even at twice the price.

It's been quoted at anywhere from $1000 - $3000 per household. Given the higher number that would be like 3+ years to see a ROI.

 

[mckmas8808]

It takes years to break even on people that subscribe.




?

So what's wrong with waiting years to make a profit. Pro team owners have that view all the time.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Soo glad I'm in the one pocket in my town that didn't get Fios........Fuck you Verizon.

I really despise how there just isn't a choice for Broadband providers in most areas. It's like well this is the cable company that owns your town, so there's your choice for internet. Oh do they fuck you over, with spotty service, and slow speeds compared to the company one town over? Tooo fucking bad.

 

[Raistlin]

I don't think that's true at all. I pay 15 euro/month for 100/100 on a four year contract, and our housing association still owns the connection to the backbone so we can renegotiate with any other provider after those four years. It can't be that expensive to install because the offering would be attractive even at twice the price.

But that isn't FiOS. You can look up the estimated costs for installation and HW. The installation is typically like 4-6 hours (many times more) ... and the main wall box (and even the rented set-top boxes) is pretty pricey. I suspect the offering of TV and telephony is where things get much pricier.

 

[Raistlin]

So what's wrong with waiting years to make a profit. Pro team owners have that view all the time.

Huh? They already have done that?

There is a limit to how much up-front cost you can incur before recouping (just like with a pro team). They would need to do it in stages - build some, recoup some, then build some more (assuming it looks to be a tenable business). They've already spent Billions. Do you think they have infinite money?

 

[Joe]

i blame smartphones

 

[Kaako]

WTF Verizon!? I thought you were cooler than that. Nationalize FiOS! I'm just glad they have it available in my area and for cheap compared to their normal rates. This countries internet infrastructure is a fucking joke, seriously.

 

[Raistlin]

cable companies had nothing to do with it. It was all telcos.

Place your rage in the right place.

Weren't cable companies also given tax dollars for infrastructure expansion?


Regardless, what was the money Verizon got supposedly even for? Fiber to home came way later to my knowledge. I thought any money the telcos got was for fiber backbones, not fiber to home?

 

[sangreal]

Currently, Verizon is in a "paused" state for FiOS as of last year. The only installations they are doing are areas that already have a fiber optic bucket/box mounted and New York.

In other words, nothing has changed and confirms that if no one in your city has FiOS, you will not be getting FiOS. If Verizon only built part of your city that's not in New York and your street/block doesn't have FiOS, you won't get FiOS.

I hope I'm wrong in my assessment, but it seems clear to me that Verizon doesn't want to continue FTTH for the masses.

I don't disagree with any of this. The problem I have is that you have riled up people like this:

Soo glad I'm in the one pocket in my town that didn't get Fios........Fuck you Verizon.

Who now believe Verizon has stopped building out within the originally planned markets.

Verizon stopped expanding new markets last year and this article confirms that they have not completed the build-out in the existing markets.

Obviously our strategy is to complete the 18 million (home) build for FiOS

 

[clav]

I don't disagree with any of this. The problem I have is that you have riled up people like this:



Who now believe Verizon has stopped building out within the originally planned markets.

Verizon stopped expanding new markets last year and this article confirms that they have not completed the build-out in the existing markets.

That is the situation though.

Unless he lives in New York state with the exception of three areas (i.e. Buffalo, Long Island, and another city), he's not going to get FiOS. Verizon has no obligation to complete the project aside from the current contract agreements.

Again, the only agreement is the one Verizon made with New York state.

 

[kirblar]

That is the situation though.

Unless he lives in New York except three areas (e.g. Buffalo, Long Island, and another city), he's not going to get FiOS.

If you don't like the services provided where you live, you know what you do?

You move. It's a free country. No one's stopping you.

 

[gcubed]

Weren't cable companies also given tax dollars for infrastructure expansion?


Regardless, what was the money Verizon got supposedly even for? Fiber to home came way later to my knowledge. I thought any money the telcos got was for fiber backbones, not fiber to home?

not to my knowledge.

i believe it was to enhance their backhaul and improve services to the customer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/11/technology/11online.ready.html - as posted earlier

 

[Lesiroth]

I love how most media is going digital, while carriers keep ramping up the data limits. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

 

[Plywood]

Why don't you want my money Verizon!?

 

[Raistlin]

i believe it was to enhance their backhaul and improve services to the customer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/11/technology/11online.ready.html - as posted earlier

Which really has very little to do with FiOS ROI costs.

 

[sangreal]

That is the situation though.

Unless he lives in New York state with the exception of three areas (i.e. Buffalo, Long Island, and another city), he's not going to get FiOS. Verizon has no obligation to complete the project aside from the current contract agreements.

Again, the only agreement is the one Verizon made with New York state.

Any information to back up your claim that Verizon has stopped building out in the existing franchised towns (as opposed to their halted expansion which we can all agree on)?

 

[thezerofire]

Verizon normally doesn't build/service AT&T territory.

Competition, what the fuck is it?

 

[clav]

Any information to back up your claim that Verizon has stopped building out in the existing franchised towns (as opposed to their halted expansion which we can all agree on)?

I can show you the agreement for New York.

Again, there is no obligation to complete FiOS for any other state/city.

http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-releases/verizon/2008/verizon-files-application-and.html

Verizon Files Application and Plan to Offer TV Throughout Five Boroughs of New York City

For the First Time, TV Service Will Be Offered by a Single Provider Throughout the City; Plan Includes Reaching 'Every Neighborhood'; Service Launch Expected Later This Year

Investment in the City Is 'Historic'

News Release ShareThis
April 15, 2008 –
NEW YORK - Verizon announced today that it has filed with the New York City Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications (DoITT) its application and plan under which, for the first time, TV service will be offered by a single provider throughout the City of New York. Verizon's revolutionary FiOS TV service will be delivered over the most advanced fiber-optic network.

Verizon submitted the plan in response to a Solicitation DoITT issued on April 11. The Solicitation seeks "proposals for franchises for the provision of cable television services to be made available throughout the City." Currently, only two legacy cable TV companies operate in separate and distinct parts of the city, leaving consumers, effectively, with little or no competitive choice for their cable TV news, information and entertainment.

"This important step sets in motion the process for Verizon to offer choice and competition in the traditional monopoly cable TV market to all the residents of the five boroughs of New York City," said Monica Azare, Verizon senior vice president for New York and Connecticut. "For too long, residents have been locked in to one provider for their cable TV entertainment. With an award of the first-ever Citywide franchise, Verizon will be able to throw open the doors to competition, providing real choice and real value."

Verizon's proposal will now be evaluated by the City, and then forwarded to the City's Franchise and Concession Review Committee for a public hearing and consideration. If the Committee and the City approve Verizon's proposal, it will be submitted to the New York Public Service Commission for confirmation, as are all cable franchises. If all approvals are achieved in a timely fashion, Verizon would begin offering service to City residents later this year.

"Our investment in the City is historic, which is reflected in the citywide nature of our plan," Azare said. "When our fiber deployment project is completed it will reach to each and every borough, neighborhood, boulevard, avenue and street, without regard to the demographics of a particular area. More importantly, City residents will be able to take advantage of the power of fiber optics delivered straight to their doors."

This 12-year proposed agreement is unprecedented in scope and is designed to serve the unique needs of approximately 3.1 million households that will have access to FiOS TV, including households in multiple dwelling units.

In keeping with the citywide scope of the Verizon plan, key aspects include:

• Verizon building its state-of-the-art fiber-optic network throughout the entire City by midyear 2014. This will make Verizon the largest provider of television service in New York City, and the only one serving the entire City;
  
• Making available FiOS TV service to requesting customers in all five boroughs within a six-year time frame as Verizon's wire centers are upgraded to being video-capable. If Verizon's proposal is approved, hundreds of thousands of New York City residents will have access to FiOS TV this year;
  
• FiOS TV will include an all digital channel line-up of more than 400 channels and 150 HD channels by year-end, and a growing library of more than 10,000 video-on-demand selections;
  
• Verizon will provide a fiber-optic institutional network (known as an INET), primarily to support the City's public safety needs;
  
• Verizon agrees to pay franchise fees equivalent to five percent of gross revenues on cable TV service, as do other cable TV operators in the City;
  
• Verizon has agreed to appropriate customer service provisions.

Verizon began constructing its fiber network in the City in late 2004, and consumers currently are enjoying the value and super-fast speeds offered by Verizon FiOS Internet service. (See below for city neighborhoods where FiOS Internet is already available.)

Verizon has an aggressive plan to provide FiOS service to requesting customers in multiple dwelling units (MDUs). Already, Verizon has installed FiOS in hundreds of MDU buildings throughout the City. The company works with property owners and landlords to gain access to the buildings, and then creates a fiber network to serve tenants in the buildings who request the FiOS services.

Verizon's FiOS TV is a formidable competitor to cable and satellite, offering a broad range of all-digital programming, high-definition (HD) channels and access to more than 10,000 on-demand titles, 70 percent of which are at no additional charge.

Verizon's fiber network delivers amazingly sharp pictures and sound, and has the capacity to transmit a wide array of HD programming that is so clear and intense it seems to leap from the TV screen. In addition to FiOS TV, Verizon's fiber network also delivers Internet download speeds of up to 50 Mbps (megabits per second) and upload speeds of up to 20 Mbps, as well as high-quality voice service.*

Verizon Fiber Deployment and FiOS Internet Availability
by New York City Neighborhood
March 2008

Manhattan
Battery Park City-Lower Manhattan
Chinatown
East Harlem North
East Harlem South
East Village
Hudson Yards Chelsea Flatiron-Union Square
Lenox Hill - Roosevelt Island
Lower East Side
Midtown - Midtown South
Upper East Side - Carnegie Hill
Yorkville

The Bronx
Williamsbridge
Olinville
Woodlawn
Wakefield
Eastchester
Edenwald
Norwood
Bronxdale
Laconia
Baychester

Brooklyn
Canarsie
Clinton Hill
Bensonhurst East
Crown Heights North
Brooklyn Heights - Cobble Hill
Homecrest
Williamsburg
Fort Greene
DUMBO-Vinegar Hill-Downtown Brooklyn-Boerum Hill
Crown Heights South
Bedford
Gravesend
North Side - South Side
Flatlands
Georgetown-Marine Park-Bergen Beach-Mill Basin
Prospect Heights
Madison

Queens
Fresh Meadows - Utopia
Glen Oaks-Floral Park-New Hyde Park
Laurelton
Rosedale
Springfield Gardens S-Brookville
Douglaston Manor-Douglaston-Little Neck
Auburndale
Bayside - Bayside Hills
Breezy Point-Belle Harbor-Rockaway Park-Broad Channel
Ft. Totten-Bay Terrace-Clearview
Oakland Gardens

Staten Island
Stapleton - Rosebank
Port Richmond
Charleston-Richmond Valley-Tottenville
New Brighton - Silver Lake
Grymes Hill-Clifton-Fox Hills
Old Town-Dongan Hills-South Beach
Westerleigh
Oakwood - Oakwood Beach
Grasmere-Arrochar-Fort Wadsworth
New Springville-Bloomfield-Travis
Todt Hill-Emerson Hill-Heartland Village-Lighthouse Hill
New Dorp - Midland Beach
Arden Heights
Rossville - Woodrow
Great Kills
Mariners Harbor-Arlington-Pt. Ivory-Granitville
Annadale-Huguenot-Prince's Bay-Eltingville
West New Brighton-New Brighton-St. George

* NOTE: actual (throughput) speeds will vary.

Verizon Communications Inc. (NYSE:VZ), headquartered in New York, is a leader in delivering broadband and other wireline and wireless communication innovations to mass market, business, government and wholesale customers. Verizon Wireless operates America's most reliable wireless network, serving nearly 66 million customers nationwide. Verizon's Wireline operations include Verizon Business, which delivers innovative and seamless business solutions to customers around the world, and Verizon Telecom, which brings customers the benefits of converged communications, information and entertainment services over the nation's most advanced fiber-optic network. A Dow 30 company, Verizon employs a diverse workforce of nearly 235,000 and last year generated consolidated operating revenues of $93.5 billion. For more information, visit www.verizon.com.